Weather Guard Lightning Tech

STL WindStart: Tackling the Wind Technician Shortage
Allen Hall and Joel Saxum speak with Brandon McKelvain and Jeremy McKelvain from Safety Technology USA (STL) to discuss their trailblazing WindStart program. They visited STL’s impressive training facilities in Abilene, Texas and discovered how the organization is addressing the critical shortage of wind technicians through hands-on, industry-focused education.
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Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host, Allen Hall, along with my co host, Joel Saxum. The U. S. wind industry needs to train thousands of new wind turbine technicians in the coming years to meet our ambitious goals for wind energy deployment. And today we’re joined by Brandon McKelvain training manager at Safety Technology USA.
Better known as STL. Also, Jeremy McKelvain who is the WindStart program manager at Safety Technology USA. Safety Technology USA, which is commonly called STL for short, is a leading wind technician training organization that provides industry standard accredited courses. Their goal is to help build the wind workforce.
of the future by training safer, more competent entry level and intermediate technicians. Joel and I visited the Safety Technology USA training facilities in Abilene, Texas recently. So if you haven’t been to Abilene, you should visit their facility. It’s pretty impressive. There we met with Brandon, and we’re really impressed by the level of training equipment and the variety of training programs.
So Brandon, Jeremy, welcome to the program.
Brandon McKelvain: Yeah, thank you, Allen.
Allen Hall: We need thousands of wind technicians. And right now, especially in West Texas, where you guys are there’s a huge demand for technicians that are trained and are knowledgeable in the wind industry. And, one of the, one of the programs you have To do that is the wind start program.
And I want to start there because I want to everybody understand what is the wind start program. And if you want to get into wind, why would you choose that program?
Jeremy McKelvain: What we do is we go out to career fairs trade schools, community college. advertise WindStart. Yes, it is STL or safety technology but it’s a program for it.
We get them interested and tell them what we offer through our WindStart program at safety technology, get them interested and then get them signed up for these classes. Give them their relevant training, all their certifications give them some extra training as well. That’s a little bit more technical to prepare them for an entry level job into the wind industry.
And then connect them with our partners that we have, our customers that we have for interviews, try and get them hired on right away. You mentioned that we have thousands of people that we need to hire. By 2030, it’s estimated that we need to hire close to 500, 000 bodies for the wind industry.
So doing this as a wind star program as the manager go in and we try and find those bodies there. You get good paying jobs. You have a reliable career. And for me, my whole thing was, I love helping people. I love helping people and guiding people. I’ve done it for 20 years in the Air Force. Now I just transitioned into this, so that’s what the windstar program is a way to introduce people into the wind industry.
Let’s be real. Let’s face it. Renewable energy is the way of the future and through safety technology, we can train those people through the windstar program and get them in an amazing career in wind as a wind technician. That’s it.
Joel Saxum: So you guys are going to high schools, community colleges what other kind of community outreach you do you guys do?
Cause you’re actually being like the boots on the ground, going and grabbing these people. Cause that’s what the industry needs, right? We know there’s training centers dot, dot it all over the place, but that effort to actually be the people that are going in talking to who could be these candidates and bringing them in to get them to that training.
That’s what’s really needed. So you guys are actually doing the boots on the ground activities as well.
Jeremy McKelvain: I went to one in Roswell, New Mexico last week that was for the job corps, for students young people who were either didn’t finish high school and they’re going back to finish their diploma, get their GED and learn some trait.
They reached out and wanted to see if we could, If we could attend. And I went and those people, they were extremely excited to see me. The students were, but also the director of the job corps and some of their instructors that taught their electrical training, their painting, their construction, their plumbing.
It’s just getting our voice out there, our name out there, and getting people interested for to basically spread the word on.
Allen Hall: So who is your typical candidate? What, like where, what’s their background education level? What are they looking to do for, to further their career?
Jeremy McKelvain: A lot of them know people, either friends or family that have been in the wind industry, and they know about it.
They want to do it. They just don’t know how to get into it. Or we’ll have recent high school graduates. People that did not finish a four year degree that want a job, want a good, reliable, good paying job with benefits just like our partners have. And those are the ones that really seem to pique the interest.
Somebody that wants to make something, make a better life for themselves and their families.
Allen Hall: And are they primarily based in Texas or are they coming from elsewhere?
Jeremy McKelvain: Right now we have traveled mainly through Texas. Thank you But I have had people reach out to me from Illinois, Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico Iowa, South Africa.
I’ve had people from the UK reach out. We are, we’re not going to discriminate. And that’s one of my big things that I definitely learned in the military is provide people a chance. Diversity makes your workforce. And different points of view, work ethics. That’s what we want. We want to give people a chance.
We want to give them the tools to succeed in what we’re doing and what we can provide.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. So right now we’re talking about the wind start program. So when someone goes into the wind start program, what can they expect as far as costs, the act of education, they come out of there, any certifications they come out with and it’s in the length of time so that, if they’re listening, go, okay, I understand basically what’s required of me.
And. And what I’ll leave the program with.
Jeremy McKelvain: Our WindStart program has has a couple of different options. We offer a three week course and a four week course. Our three week course focuses around the GWO certifications, the Global Wind Organization certifications. You get your basic safety training, your basic technical training, your advanced rescue training, and then you get to take an elective.
Now that four week course, you’re going to get all of those things as well, but you’re also going to get An additional five days that focuses more on your technical training your your electrical, your mechanical, your hydraulics, things like that. That’s gonna be a little bit more industry specific, which everything really is.
But that’s gonna. going to give you a little bit more, but that’s our four week course.
Joel Saxum: So they may not come out of there as an expert, but at least he’s been exposed to, it’s going to not be the first time they’ve heard the word hydraulic or electric motor or something. When they get to the field, they may have, they’ll seen it before and they may have some working knowledge of it and, be that new team member that is going to need to be trained up in the real world, they’re not coming in completely green. They’ve got. They’ve got all their safety search.
They’re ready to hit the field. And they’ve been exposed to the, the general concepts within a wind turbine. To me, they’ll be steps ahead, right? Light years ahead of someone that’s just walking off the street.
Brandon McKelvain: The WindStar program, it really it hits home to me personally, because, What Jeremy’s talking about that was me, I didn’t have I wasn’t gonna go to school for four years I was you know, I was not suited well for that didn’t want anything to do with school But I needed a good pay a job, you know Wasn’t you know, I needed to get out and work, And that’s the other thing is, to go to a you know A two year trade school or something like that also wasn’t in the cards for me I needed something quick.
I needed to just get in. And, fortunately I was hired, right out of high school, but I was just thrown off into the deep end, and there, there wasn’t good training for me for the first few years and whatnot. And then I linked up with a better company and I got the good training and I grew up around a shop atmosphere and, things like that.
I knew, mechanics and, all that good stuff. My dad was a mechanic going to shop and. So I knew some stuff, but when it came to things like electricity, I knew nothing and I had no business being out there, so we come at it from a unique perspective.
All of our instructors here have, most of them have over 10 years of field experience in this industry, and they really know what the competencies are and what we need. And all of us have that same perspective of man I wish I would have known this a long time ago.
I wish I would have known this day one These are the fundamentals. Why aren’t why isn’t anybody teaching us these things, and it’s simple stuff, like schematics, digital multimeters just very basic fundamental things that we’ve tried to push into the Windstar program, for us, it’s the experience of this is the, this is what we feel like is the most pertinent information to get into three, four weeks, and that’s going to build safety, but it also triggers a base for for them to start growing as technicians.
And those are the things we really want to focus on.
Joel Saxum: So Brandon, now we’ve been talking about the WindStart program, but when Alan and I visited the facility, there was a lot more than that going on. Actually, matter of fact, we visited two facilities, right? We visited a brand new training center that you guys were building out for more technical.
There was a frickin gearbox in there. You had awesome setups for bore scope inspections, and you had cabinets for, electrical training and all kinds of tools. It was a great, that was a great facility, but the first one we were at, All kinds of training going on, advanced rescue, you had mock ups of nacelles where people had to, pull, basically pull, what would be a body, I’m gonna call it a dummy, not that we’re, none of us are dummies, but they had to pull them, had to pull them through a whole tower set up out back for for rescue training and, going over, we talked at length about, that, that last step going over the edge when you’re descending on ropes, but you had all kinds of other training things and there, and the whole parking lot was full.
There was people from. crane companies and service companies, ISPs doing all kinds of different safety training, CPR stuff. So you want to touch on some of the other things that you guys offer as well?
Brandon McKelvain: Yeah, absolutely. Like Jeremy said, the GWO, the basic technical, basic safety, the advanced rescue we do a lot of QEW, qualified electrical worker training for low voltage, high voltage based on the 2024 version of 70E.
That’s really popular and honestly, that’s become one of my favorite courses out there because I think that’s one of the things that the industry isn’t doing that great of a job, at least in terms of execution. So that one’s great. But yeah, the technical facility, we’re starting to build out more advanced courses gearbox, bore scope class we’re working on adding a Three phase motor control class.
So I think that’s going to be very beneficial. That’s another thing that the I think is lacking a little bit as far as the, the education for our technicians because we deal with a lot of three phase and as and I’m just speaking from experience, but I didn’t understand three phase the way I should, so there we are again, we’re looking back at things that, really would have helped us as technicians, not only from a safety perspective, but, Also to just grow and develop, those are the things we’re trying to focus on. And, as we continue to build out those more advanced courses, that’s great.
But really, the wind start is that, okay, what’s day one? What is what does it take to get somebody, say, out of high school or who wants to change career path? Somebody coming out of oil and gas, or a veteran coming out of the, services. What does it take to get them, not only safe, but also start introducing them?
To, to these concepts that they’re really going to need as a technician in wind.
Allen Hall: The facility if I’m coming into a training facility, one of the scary parts here is, does it have the latest equipment? Does it, are they, do they have classrooms that are upkept and clean? And do they have, even the fundamentals like, is there restrooms?
Those kind of silly things matter if you’re going to be there for three or four weeks. If you’re going to be there for a day, Not mad or so much, but when Joel and I took the tour of both facilities, clean, up to date, modern, had all the proper equipment, particularly all the, like the voltmeters and all that kind of thing.
Borescopes, new. The equipment that’s being used out in the real world. So it’s not such a huge jump where you’re going from the classroom to an actual turbine. That’s the stuff they’re using. And you’re putting your hands on it as a new entry. into that wind turbine technician world. You need that, right?
You need to be familiar with the equipment they’re using out there. And I think this is where your training makes total sense for someone who’s coming into the industry that probably has mechanical skills, has some electrical skills as we see the new technicians roll in, but they haven’t played with the fancy toys yet.
Joel Saxum: That may be the downfall. You guys stuff may be too advanced and too nice for them. They’re going to, they’re going to get out into a turbine and be like, this wasn’t what it was like when I was in training.
Brandon McKelvain: But we can take them out of the tower whenever it’s 110 degrees, then they they get a good experience.
Joel Saxum: Wait for a dust storm to roll through Abilene and then go outside. Come on guys.
Brandon McKelvain: No, we really appreciate that. And and it, and again, I think that’s the, that’s the fidelity of this, and that’s why the experience really matters and coming from the industry and it’s certainly not me.
We’ve got some really good instructors here and the secret is I’m a C minus guy myself, right? So if they can get their delivery to where I can understand what they’re teaching, hey we’re doing really good, and we have a good product,
Allen Hall: Brandon, I want to get to that point because I do think people downgrade themselves based on what happened in high school. And I think that’s a tragic mistake. If you’re a C plus student in high school, it has really no influence on what you’re going to do going forward, right? It’s time to pick up that heavy load and put that on your back and do the right thing here.
You can get educated. The people I mean are technicians or smart people, right? They may not have, they may not understand calculus, but who the heck cares? They make computers for that. Yeah, to each their own. But the thing is Joel and I spent a good couple of weeks in Oklahoma and Texas meeting a whole bunch of technicians Those guys are doing all right.
A lot of them are doing great. Yeah, it’s, it can be a great profession and you don’t have to have a perfect high school score to get in to learn how to do electrical work, to do how, learn how to do mechanical work, to learn how to climb a turbine. Those things are skills. Those are your hands and your brains working together, which is a talent still.
Brandon McKelvain: Yeah, and and this was something that really changed me whenever I got into the training was, Oh, very good. You realize exactly what you said, high school, even college is really no basis to what, you can do is in terms of performance in your career. Because a lot of that is focused around teacher centered learning lectures and things like that, which are great for some people, but not for a lot of us, especially the ones that are going to be more technician more hands on or go into more vocational schemes.
So we try to make things as student centered as possible. That’s where all those tools and, the meters and all that stuff comes in because you, if you’re putting those on the desk and they have something to touch and to follow along with, and then at the end of it, they have a knowledge check to where they can go out in the shop and they can try to implement the knowledge that you’re trying to to give them it’s great.
And that’s not only just, that’s just adult learners in general, I think, because we have good experience, you’re not dealing with people that have nothing, you can. You can find something that they know that they’re already really sharp at. And we just, we try to just build on that.
Joel Saxum: And like you said, all of your trainers are ex technicians. So they’ve been through it. They’ve been in that position before they’d been in the turbine. They, it’s not you’re listening to an HR professor teach you about HR. That’s never actually worked in the, in HR. You know what I mean?
So and I guess and I guarantee that almost all of you can be on the same page as this one is sometimes a client, an asset owner will send some of their engineers from the back office out to the field to go visit the turbines. Those people need their hands held by the technicians that are out there doing the work when they go up tower.
And this hands in your pockets, hands in your pockets.
Allen Hall: So let’s talk about how people can get rolled, enrolled at STL either in the WindStart program or some of your GWO training that’s there. How does that happen? What’s the, Best steps to get started here.
Brandon McKelvain: Yeah if people want to sign up they can go to our websites.
We have a tab dedicated to the WindStart program. Very short information that they fill out and then somebody gets in contact with them gives them, a lot of good detail on the program which is also available on the website. But if they have any questions or, want to talk to somebody Jeremy will be reaching out to them or somebody else.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. One of the things I want to touch on here as well as there is some financial assistance available. So through the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act. There’s a possibility of up to 4, 500 towards course fees. There’s also some Sally Mae funding eligible. And then you guys actually, I believe because of the IRA bill are working forward towards getting that apprenticeship program going that will fulfill that for people in the field as well.
Brandon McKelvain: That is correct. And those are all things that we’re super excited about. Because, we recognize that not everybody can do this, financially and, you look, let’s be honest. We’re targeting people that want to get out there quickly and start working, right? So they probably, they’re ready to go make some money.
So if we can assist them in any way, that’s exactly what we want to try to do. And we’re already starting to do that right here on our own backyard. Abilene is, I call it The wind capital of Texas, and like you guys said, there’s a lot of technician jobs just in West Texas.
So let’s start right here, we’re starting to reach out to as many people as we can and just letting them know. And, Jeremy touched on it earlier. I think a lot of it is, there’s plenty of people that want into the industry, but they have no clue where to start.
And, you think about it this way, probably the top five emplo employers that have the most technicians in the U. S. If you weren’t in the industry, you probably have no clue who they are, I could say some really big names to you guys, and sure, yeah, I know all about them.
But if I say it to somebody who’s getting out of high school or is just outside the industry in general, They go, okay, that’s cool, but they have no clue some of them. They go. Oh, I didn’t know they did that I thought they just made microwaves, right? And you guys can you can deduce who I’m talking about But that’s the point, and so I think that’s why things like the wind start program and what Jeremy’s doing this grassroots approach of He’s he’s My heart goes out to him because it’s got to be frustrating, because he’s going out there and he’s having these same conversations again and and, but that’s what needs to happen.
That’s what needs to happen. I don’t know how else you do it, unless you start running ads in the Superbowl or something.
But that’s it was.
Joel Saxum: We’ll wait to see that next year. But you guys are also doing your, you’re helping buy side sell side, right? So all the companies the big ones that we’re talking about, whether it’s an OEM or a big ISP or anybody, they’re looking for people.
Contact STL as well, because not only can you get your people that you have trained, but they’re bringing in a pool and Jeremy becomes basically one of your best recruiters that you actually don’t pay for. Because he’s going out grassroots, grabbing the people, getting them trained, and then basically can provide you a portfolio of, Hey, all these guys are ready to hit all these guys or girls ready to hit the field.
You want some of them? And they’re already vetted. They already have a little bit of training that’s. So if I was an ISP, I’d be contacting you guys.
Brandon McKelvain: Absolutely. And that’s the idea. People can scoop them up as they come through the program and they’ve had some financial assistance. Hey that’s even better for the companies, cause otherwise they’re going to hire them without experience and then send them here anyway, probably.
So it’s a win for everybody and that’s what we’re trying to do. Jeremy mentioned that 500k number, which just is crazy to me every time I hear that, is all we know to do, to try to start chipping away at that. And hopefully, everybody else gets on board with that.
Start talking to your neighbors start in your own community, there’s plenty of hard working people out there, I worked some really hard jobs growing up, did some, pre bar roofing, construction, things like that, and it makes you appreciate, finding a good job, finding a good career, so I know there’s a lot of hard working talent out there.
And what we’re teaching isn’t rocket science, it’s, it, you can get as deep into it as you want, but at an entry level for a wind tech, you can pick this stuff up pretty easy. You just need a good work mentality. You got to show up and be a hard worker and listen and learn and.
That’s it. You can do really good.
Allen Hall: Like you said, Brandon, we have a lot of technicians that need to fill that void in there. Oh, there’s several good paying jobs available right now. So if you get trained up you can be part of the wind revolution that’s happening in Texas and all around the United States.
So reach out to everybody at STL by going to the website at safetytechnologyusa. com. Brandon, Jeremy, it’s been great to have you on the program and yeah, keep us up to date as things progress because the wind technician shortage needs to end and you’re part of that fix. Thank you guys.
Brandon McKelvain: Thank you, Allen. Thank you, Joel.
https://weatherguardwind.com/stl-windstart-wind-technician-shortage/
Renewable Energy
Lies: Their Purpose
Does what Hannah Arendt said at left apply to Donald Trump today?
Not sure. I’m fairly certain that, for instance, Trump wants as many morons as possible to believe that the 2020 election was rigged.
However, the bulk of what she said is absolutely true. Trump most certainly wants to deprive people of the capacity to think and judge.
Renewable Energy
ACORE to Ring Opening Bell at New York Stock Exchange to Celebrate 25 Years
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Finance -
Policy -
Technology -
Press Releases
ACORE to Ring Opening Bell at New York Stock Exchange to Celebrate 25 Years
Washington, D.C. – ACORE will ring the opening bell at the New York Stock Exchange on Wednesday, July 29 at 9:30 a.m. ET to celebrate its 25th anniversary of powering investment in American clean energy.
For 25 years, ACORE has been working across the entire clean energy business process, uniting technology, policy, and finance to accelerate America’s transition to a clean energy economy.
ACORE’s President and CEO Ray Long will ring the bell alongside members of the ACORE Board.
If you are interested in a conversation with ACORE CEO Ray Long, please let us know at communications@acore.org.
When: Wednesday, July 29 at 9:30 a.m. ET
Where: New York Stock Exchange, 11 Wall Street, New York, NY. Media wishing to attend in person should RSVP to Chris Higginbotham beforehand. The ceremony will also be livestreamed at https://www.nyse.com/bell.
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About ACORE:
ACORE is a nonpartisan nonprofit organization that operates at the intersection of affordability, reliability, and clean energy deployment. Our work is focused on stabilizing energy prices, strengthening the electric grid, and driving investment in cost-effective technologies to ensure that clean energy delivers for people, businesses, and the U.S. economy.
ACORE’s membership includes clean energy investors, developers, energy buyers, power generators, manufacturers, and energy providers. In 2024, nearly 80% of the booming utility-scale domestic clean energy growth was financed, developed, owned, equipped, or contracted by ACORE members.
Media Contacts:
Chris Higginbotham
higginbotham@acore.org
The post ACORE to Ring Opening Bell at New York Stock Exchange to Celebrate 25 Years appeared first on ACORE.
https://acore.org/news/acore-to-ring-opening-bell-at-new-york-stock-exchange-to-celebrate-25-years/
Renewable Energy
GE Vernova Q2 Wind Losses, Envision AI Turbine for Fortescue
Weather Guard Lightning Tech

GE Vernova Q2 Wind Losses, Envision AI Turbine for Fortescue
GE Vernova posts a record quarter as gas and grid surge while wind orders drop 40%. Plus Envision grid-connects its first AI turbine for Fortescue. Visit https://woma2027.com/ to register speaking and sponsorship interest!
Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!
If you haven’t visited woma2027.com, you should do so right now because we are putting together all of the, uh, events at WOMA 2027, which is March 3rd through 5th in Melbourne at the Pullman, Matthew, Pullman East? Pullman East Melbourne. And it’s packed full. Our, in fact, actually, we have so many people applying to attend the event, we’re getting a little nervous on if the size of the venue is not large enough, and we, we have a lot of people already chime in wanting to be sponsors, which is great.
But I wanna talk about what you will experience at WOMA. We’ve done it for two years now, and the feedback has been great. And Yolanda, you’ve been to the one just this past February, and participated in panels and saw some of the, uh, workshops and was involved in a lot of WOMA 2026. What are you expecting in 2027, and what did you think of 2026?
Yolanda Padron: I thought [00:01:00] 2026 was great. I loved seeing everybody there. Uh, got to meet a lot of new people. It was, it was sweet. There was a lot of r- people returning from WOMA 2025, um, and a lot of new people that were told that that was the event to be at to learn about wind, which was really, really nice to hear. Uh, something that I loved, especially since we’ve been through quite a few conferences since then and before then, was just the fact that, like, you’re, you’re just talking about problems and just talking about solutions, and you’re talking about real stories, and it’s nothing that’s super, super public.
You know, like, you, you can have real conversations with real people. I know during a panel I mentioned a, a solution to an issue that I had seen that was kind of niche, and then, uh, like three minutes later, like I had had some people come up to me and we all talked about the problem that we saw and then [00:02:00]talked about their problem, and it was really similar, and obviously in a totally different continent.
And it was, it was good to, to be able to have those conversations that you usually wouldn’t have elsewhere, especially if everything’s just really, really public and just big and you’re having a lot of people sell at you, and it’s, it’s just something that we’ve really shied away from. What, what was your favorite part of it?
Matthew Stead: I, I think, um, it was really the fact that it was a a technical, useful, helpful conference rather than having some rando talking about things that they’re told to talk to you about
Allen Hall: It’s real answers from real problem solvers. And everybody’s gonna be in Melbourne on the 3rd through the 5th of March 2027.
If you’re interested in attending, you need to go to woma2027.com. If you’re interested in sponsoring, it’s also woma2027.com. There’s limited [00:03:00]sponsorship left, so if you wanna do something, you better get in quick. And if you wanna attend the event, and I suggest that you do, that you visit woma2027.com and get registered today
The Uptime Wind Energy podcast, brought to you by StrikeTape. Protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit StrikeTape.com. And now, your hosts
Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy podcast. I’m your host, Allen Hall. I’m here with Rosemary Barnes, Matthew Stead, and Yolanda Padron. It’s been a busy day as we record because GE just announced its second quarter earnings and a bunch of things about the business. They had an investor call early, early, early on the East Coast, and even earlier for those on the West Coast of the US, and it was a very good quarter for GE, but a really lopsided one.
Uh, GE Vernova reported second quarter orders of [00:04:00] $24.2 billion, up 88% with a backlog that has now climbed to $176 billion. Free cash came in at $5.1 billion. Man, $5.1 billion is a lot of cash, everybody, which is more than the company generated in all of last year. So they made more in one quarter in cash than made in all of last year, and management is raising its full year guidance, but the strength is coming from gas power and the electric grid, not from wind.
The wind segment saw orders fall 40% and revenue slip 10%, and the company still expects wind to lose about $400 million this year. Although in the investor call, they did say that the forecast for wind in Q3 and maybe even Q4 was to be essentially break even on the EBITDA scale. So that’s a, a, a good number.
It does seem like GE is being more [00:05:00] aggressive on pricing and selective on the projects they are choosing to participate with. Repowers was way down, if I remember correctly. Uh, they are not doing a lot of that at the moment. So there is a slowdown they’re seeing in wind, but they’re more than making up for it in gas turbines and electrification.
Orders for gas turbines are out to ’30, ’31, and I think they’re gonna close out all of ’30, ’31, um, book orders for gas turbines here shortly. So if you want a gas turbine, Matthew, you’re gonna have to get in line because your GE has a long list of, of clients in front of them. What does this mean for wind?
When I hear the discussion where GE is focused on gas and electrification because of the huge cash flow that comes in their door- Does that mean a good positive things for wind because they have the cash to kinda hang around wind? Or is it gonna be set aside for other [00:06:00] more profitable business segments?
I
Matthew Stead: mean, GE’s had a number of setbacks over the years. Um, you know, we know, we know all about them. We’ve been talking about them, you know, multiple times. But, you know, they’ve gotta just wait it out, don’t they? Um, you know, wind is not gonna go away, so they just need to wait it out, get their problems out of the way, get their cash flow in, build the order books again, just wait for things to improve.
Um, I, I think one thing I just wanna pull out, the Sands Ear, i- isn’t that a massive achievement?
Allen Hall: It is. It’s, it’s a colossal engineering achievement on its own. Forget about just delivering and manufacturing all those turbines and getting them installed. And that’s a pattern energy project, and Fairwind I think was involved with that in terms of project development, EPC items.
It’s huge. It’s gigantic. But it may be the last one we see in the United States for a while.
Matthew Stead: And but Vineyard, you know, they’ve gotta resolve that, don’t they? We’ve spoken about that before. Get that one out the way, clear out the decks and, yeah. That’ll come good.
Allen Hall: Rosemary, of our former GE [00:07:00] employees, I guess we have two of them here.
I’m one. Not of wind, but of another division. What’s your thoughts on GE Vernova at the minute?
Rosemary Barnes: These days I see them through the O&M lens. That’s how I work with them, is when my clients need support for all their wind farms and It’s just, it’s just never enough. It’s not a GE-specific thing. Uh, you know, across Australia, anybody with a full service agreement does not…
Uh, the, the company performing that agreement just gives the impression that they just do not have enough, um, uh, enough people. Y- you know? It’s just, just hands or maybe it’s budget. Uh, I guess it, it’s both at the same time. Yeah, I mean, I see some good things like their, the pace of new technologies has slowed and they’re consolidating, which was needed, but it’s just hard to imagine that it’s even gonna be enough considering how many fewer blade engineers that they’ve got now.
Like, how are they, [00:08:00] how are they going to get the, you know, the issues with the platforms that they are, uh, pushing, how are they gonna get all that under control with so many fewer engineers? And will they ever be able to, you know, go back to innovating a- again when they’ve lost so much of their, you know, institutional knowledge?
Allen Hall: Two things they did not mention during the phone call today or in any of the documents that I saw was TPI Composites and that EPC has acquired that and is now operating the factories, uh, making GE blades. And LM Wind Power was not discussed either, although LM Wind Power has been integrated into the overall financials of the company, so it’s not a standalone financial entity like it was last year.
So you can’t really r- read the tea leaves of what’s happening at LM, but nobody talked about or even asked on the investor call what was happening on the wind side. They were very interested in gas turbines and what the order rate was going to be, and GE was concerned [00:09:00] on their side, saying that they’re trying to ramp up production to make more gas turbines, but there’s limitations to how much they can do.
Rosemary Barnes: I guess that’s the s- the zeitgeist now, right? Or it’s the, I don’t know, like, it’s, it’s a sign of the times. Everyone’s obsessed with data centers, and for some reason, data centers are obsessed with gas turbines, um, even though, like, it’s not a fast solution to, uh, y- you know, to, to anything. So I don’t… You know, I’m not saying that building a, you know, a wind farm or solar farms, batteries, those are not without challenges.
But I really don’t think that the, yeah, gas turbine challenge is so much easier than the, um, yeah, than the renewables challenges. It’s a bit weird to me how everyone has just kind of latched onto, “Oh, you need new power, then it needs to be gas.” It’s just a bit weird to me.
Allen Hall: GE was predicting a peak of orders in gas turbines to happen sometime in 2026.
They, they think that the demand curve is gonna trend downward because everybody is already in [00:10:00] line essentially, and it’s five years out, so not many other people are gonna join that line to make it seven, eight years out That also indicates that sort of the d- the demand for gas turbines may be waning a little bit, or there’s just a backlog, they just can’t produce more.
Is that going to then maybe finally open up the best solar wind discussion for AI data centers?
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, I wonder if it’s partly because y- you know, in a lot of cases… So people wanna build data centers, and then those data centers need power. You can’t just plug into the grid in an easy, timely manner. So then now they’ve gotta BYO their own power, and in fact, in Australia they’ve just announced a, a policy where you will have to…
You can bring your own power, and it will have to be renewable, actually, in Australia. So, um, at least that’s, at least that’s a win for, you know, generation source.
Allen Hall: Yeah. The, the AI data center discussion and gas turbines in the United States has more recently been focused [00:11:00] on, on the AI data centers that use those gas turbines, and the number of gas turbines that they’re choosing, and that they’re choosing gas turbines that fall under some sort of EPA threshold on size.
And what is happening, and which, uh, SpaceX has done and some others have done, is they go underneath that threshold on the size of the gas turbines, and then they, you know, and they daisy chain them together, right? So you, you… Instead of having one massive, I don’t know, two-megawatt generator of some sort, you have a bunch of 200 kilowatts, and you just stack them all together.
And the concern is, is that are some of these data centers violating EPA, the… If not the actual rule or the intent of the rule in terms of emissions, and it’s causing a little bit of a stink. It’s, it’s raised enough of, uh, the noise floor about it that you’re, you’re hearing it on podcasts, you’re hearing people involved in AI data ce- [00:12:00] data centers push back on it saying, “It’s all legal.
It’s all legal.” So it’s gonna come to a head pretty quickly in the United States.
Rosemary Barnes: It was some real, like, real sketchy loophole finding, right? Like, I can’t remember the exact wording, but you’re not supposed to be able to just chuck in a diesel generator or a gas turbine in without any kind of planning, right?
But they found a loophole where it’s like, okay, well, you know, it’s just like a truck except for that there’s no truck, and so it was called, like- off-road or non-road use or something. And it’s just, like, clearly not the, um, the meaning of the, of the law, right? The spirit of the law had, like, obviously been broken.
In Australia we have a saying, the pub test. It doesn’t pass the pub test. Like, if you said that to someone in a pub, then they would be like, “What the hell is that? That is not right.” They have closed the loophole. However, I think that they also kind of quietly just allowed them to keep the ones that they had or had planned or something, so [00:13:00] it’s, like, overall by far not ideal.
But I think that it’s just, like, you can, you can do that for a single site, but it’s obviously, like, the more that you do ridiculous stuff like that, that you lose the community ac- acceptance, which they barely had and definitely don’t really have anymore. Um, and secondly, yeah, like people, uh, people close the loophole and they respond.
It’s, it’s much better, and we see it with wind as well. Like, yeah, you can do things technically by the law, but if you wanna have a, you know, sustainable, uh, industry through the years, through the decades, you actually have to kind of, you know, think, “What happens if I do y- push to the furthest extent of the law, um, to get away with whatever I can?”
What’s gonna happen is regulation is gonna come down on you and you’ll lose the ability to kind of self-regulate.
Allen Hall: We’re gonna take a quick break, but when we come back we’ll meet a wind turbine that runs on artificial intelligence, Rosie.[00:14:00]
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In the red dirt of Western Australia, a mining company and a Chinese turbine maker are trying something new. Envision Energy says it has grid connected its first [00:15:00] artificial intelligence wind turbine prototype for Fortescue’s Nullagine Wind Project in Pilbara. The full project will use 17 of Envision’s EN182 turbines, each rated for 7.8 megawatts and built to handle mining sites, desert heat, and tough grid rules.
The turbines- The turbines pair a self-erecting tower from Nabler Wind with a hub standing an astonishing 188 meters tall. Behind it all sits Envision’s Energy Foundation Model software that company calls the world’s largest physical AI system. The goal is to swap diesel and gas for wind across the mine’s fleet and processing sites.
So this is an effort by Fortescue to power mining operations with electricity. It’s a pretty ex- exciting [00:16:00] project if you’re watching. The Envision artificial intelligence piece is an aspect that I didn’t know much about, and I still am trying to gather more information on, because there’s not a ton of info about what AI means in terms of a physical system.
And maybe Rosie, you know a little bit more, or Yolande, you can brief us on what this really is.
Rosemary Barnes: We just need to start with a pronunciation lesson, Allen. Sorry.
Matthew Stead: Not Pilbara, Pilbara. Pilbara.
Rosemary Barnes: I, I don’t actually… I hadn’t heard that part about AI and that it doesn’t… I, I don’t know. It’s, it’s such a buzzword that it might not mean anything, you know.
However, there’s so many cool aspects to that project that aren’t related to AI. Um, yeah, the tower height, the tower erection technology. I’m interested to hear that they have taken the heat of the environment into [00:17:00] consideration, ’cause that’s one of the, my obsessions actually, as long as I’ve been working on wind turbines, and ever since I found out how, you know, the materials qualification and certification process works, that it just doesn’t take into account the really high temperatures.
That’s one of the projects that Padlo has going on at the moment, is, um, putting sensors on some turbines to, like, look into that more. Um, yeah, because we do see in Australia a lot of sites have, you know, even within a few years, they might have 20 years of operation left, but we already see a whole lot of cracks that look suspiciously like end of, end of life fatigue cracks on them.
So yeah, we are looking into that more, and it’s very interesting to hear that Envision have taken the heat into consideration. I hope it includes the blade structure as well as just, you know, other turbine components, electronics, and that sort of thing.
Allen Hall: It does sound like they’re pairing batteries or BESS with wind turbines, where the BESS is located at the base of the turbine.
That would make sense in [00:18:00] Australia, particularly around where mines are, because it tends to be very remote, and storing electricity would make sense. The Discussions I’ve seen on YouTube deal with more on the energy trading side, that the wind turbine stores energy, of course, and it does it very efficiently into the best system, and then the AI system sits on top of that to help arbitrage the energy that’s stored in the battery to make more money.
Not a bad way of doing it, but it does lead to a ton of questions about national security, the use of AI, the, uh, and how this is all going to integrate together from a asset manager side. Yolande, I know in the United States we have a lot of restrictions about the technology that is in wind turbines and the, and the firewalls that exist there, where you, you can’t even plug into a wind turbine without having a lot of approvals.
Is AI coming in wind [00:19:00] turbines in the US and the rest of the world, or is this mostly a Western Australia event?
Yolanda Padron: We talked a little bit about a trading company a couple episodes ago, right? And that was a… It sounded like it’s, it’s coming. Um, I, when I first read the article that we’re talking about for Fortescue, I thought this was more of, like, a SCADA self-learning AI type thing, where, like It, it kind of learns from the, from itself, and then maybe it, it tells you you’re more likely to be seeing some sort of blade issue that wasn’t shown before
Rosemary Barnes: I heard, um, Andrew Forrest speak at a smart energy conference earlier this year, and he was talking about not for, um, not for wind, but for the solar and battery projects that they’ve already got there.
He called it a self-healing grid, and AI was the technology that enabled that. And so he, [00:20:00] he was saying, and I can’t remember the, the details specifically either, but when there was a, a disturbance, something that would’ve caused the, you know, without the AI, um, you know, layer looking after everything, a fault that would’ve shut the whole site down was able to self, self-heal with no interruption to supply.
Um, and that that was the kind of AI that, uh, they were talking about. I believe that the new wind farm addition to that is the same sort of thing, where they’re looking at, you know, a very complex system with… I mean, they don’t have energy prices to deal with, uh, in that case because it’s self-contained.
They’re not conne- connected to any external grid. Um, but you know, they’ve got wind, they’ve got solar, they’ve got, uh, so obviously weather conditions related to those two going on. They’ve got batteries, they’ve got, you know, yeah, the, um, availability of every single different… of probably many [00:21:00] thousands of different components in that system that, um, y- you know, you need to make sure that if there’s a failure or when there’s a failure in any one or combination of those things, that you’re always going to be able to reroute around that and kind of heal itself.
So it probably does include some of, of what you were saying, Yolanda, but I think when they say this is the biggest physical AI, like, I think that that might be a little bit of a meaningless term because y- you know, like, there’s AI… It, it could be like… I, I don’t know. It, like, what, what does that mean?
Like, if you have AI that is, um, you know, playing some role in controlling America’s electricity grids, then that would be the biggest, the biggest one, even if it was, you know, like a tiny little, playing a tiny role. I, I, I don’t know what that specifically means and… Is it bad marketing ’cause it’s just confusing and makes you assume that it’s, um, just meaningless buzzword cool [00:22:00]sounding thing
Allen Hall: It’s probably genius marketing because they attach AI to whatever the product is.
So we have AI lightning diverters at Weather Guard. EOLOGIX-PING has AI CMS, and Partload has whatever Partload does, AI-Partload. So that’s the smart move, th- uh, because it does seem to raise the value
Rosemary Barnes: But you know what? Partload is anti-AI because 90% of our work is you get, you know, drone inspections, and they use AI, and then it w- and it works really, w- it works really…
I’d never wanna make it sound like it is bad technology because, you know, the status quo before we had drones with using AI was to just not inspect your blades. So, you know, like, we’re doing much better than that now. But everything that we do is where AI was not able to do it or AI did it wrong. So y- you know, um, like I- we use AI in that everything that comes into us is AI.
Allen Hall: Well, if the same AI [00:23:00] technology that is reviewing blade images is being applied inside of a wind turbine, what do you see as a likely outcome there, Rosemary?
Rosemary Barnes: Well, it’s not, I mean, it’s not the, it’s not the same. And like I said, uh, it’s very easy for me to be like, “Oh, AI, you know, makes all these mistakes,” but it, I only see the mistakes.
I don’t see the 90%-plus of correctly categorized things. I don’t, they’re not relevant to me. Um- Uh, but I think for controlling a complex system, like it, it is… That, that’s a really great application. I mean, I think it’s like with any like super hyped up technology, it’s like really useful in a few things, and that’s what leads to the hype, and then people start to just wanna apply it everywhere.
It becomes the, you know, like when the only tool you’ve got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Like, that’s where we’re at. Like AI is this, um, is this hammer that we’ve got, and everyone wants to solve every problem with it. And I do it myself, you know. Like I hate writing LinkedIn posts, and so I’ll work with, with Claude or, um, I [00:24:00] use NotebookLM as well to, you know, I draft my LinkedIn post.
And you’re like, “Well, th- no, that sucks. Do this, do this, do this.” And then, you know, like half an hour later, you’re like, okay, I could very easily have written my own post in less time, and I could… I, I try again and again because I just, I, uh, you know, hate that kind of writing so much. But yeah, I think that like economy-wide, that’s the problem, that everyone is just trying to whack every problem with AI regardless of whether it’s the right one.
Allen Hall: Okay, so there’s gonna be products that are gonna incorporate AI or have AI somewhere hyphenated in the name of the product. What products should not be using AI right now?
Matthew Stead: Yeah, I think there’s… Uh, I wanna add to the… You know, go back a few steps. That calling this the largest, you know, physical AI device is complete rubbish really.
That’s stupid, really. It’s like, like, like what you said, Rosie. It’s like putting an AI machine on a road, and then it becomes the world’s largest AI infrastructure. I mean, that was, that was pretty stupid, um, [00:25:00] really. And that, that’s just marketing. My, my view is if you can’t explain what it does, you shouldn’t be using the word AI So in marketing, you know, you can’t just say, “Oh, it’s AI ’cause I don’t understand what it does.”
You should actually be able to explain, “This is what this product does, and this is why it does it, and we use AI to help make that occur in a smart way.” Rather than just being randomly talking about, um, AI solving all of these complex issues and not actually knowing how it’s done is rubbish.
Rosemary Barnes: To answer your question, Allen, I think AI shouldn’t be used for most creative stuff.
Like video, um, creation, everybody hates it, and companies keep on pushing it, and it sucks. And I think also it’s kind of… It, it makes people so angry, I think it’s gonna backfire if it hasn’t already for most, [00:26:00] most people that are using it. Um, yeah, so that would be one thing. And also, uh, you shouldn’t use too much AI for, like, I see it heaps on LinkedIn now, and it’s, it’s kind of…
Like, at the first time you use AI, you’re like, “Whoa, th- this is pretty, pretty good. Like, this is something, you know, like I could… That’s very similar to the stuff that I, yeah, used to post on LinkedIn or the infographics that I used to make.” But the issue is that, like, it looks that way the first time, but then once you use it a bit and you can recognize that it’s AI, then you see it everywhere and it, it turns you, really turns you off whoever’s put it out there.
And so, like, there’s so much on LinkedIn now where it’s, like, just AI-generated things. It’s… Even if, you know, like, if an expert has created it and edited it afterwards and made sure that the output is accurate, then I wouldn’t call it AI slop. But it is also, like, it’s always too [00:27:00] wordy. It’s, um, you know, it’s just like the style is just clearly e- the h- if the point is that you’re trying to express, “I’m an expert.
These are my expert opinions. I know what I’m talking about,” AI is not doing that for you. Like, you write your post or create your graphic with AI, it’s just not doing that for you. So I think that that is another example of where people shouldn’t be using AI.
Allen Hall: That wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy podcast.
If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us on LinkedIn. And if you found value in today’s conversation, please leave us a review. It really helps other wind energy professionals discover the show. And please, please, please don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode.
For Rosie, Yolande, and Matthew, I’m Allen Hall, and we’ll see you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy [00:28:00] podcast.
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