Weather Guard Lightning Tech
STL WindStart: Tackling the Wind Technician Shortage
Allen Hall and Joel Saxum speak with Brandon McKelvain and Jeremy McKelvain from Safety Technology USA (STL) to discuss their trailblazing WindStart program. They visited STL’s impressive training facilities in Abilene, Texas and discovered how the organization is addressing the critical shortage of wind technicians through hands-on, industry-focused education.
Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!
Pardalote Consulting – https://www.pardaloteconsulting.com
Weather Guard Lightning Tech – www.weatherguardwind.com
Intelstor – https://www.intelstor.com
Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host, Allen Hall, along with my co host, Joel Saxum. The U. S. wind industry needs to train thousands of new wind turbine technicians in the coming years to meet our ambitious goals for wind energy deployment. And today we’re joined by Brandon McKelvain training manager at Safety Technology USA.
Better known as STL. Also, Jeremy McKelvain who is the WindStart program manager at Safety Technology USA. Safety Technology USA, which is commonly called STL for short, is a leading wind technician training organization that provides industry standard accredited courses. Their goal is to help build the wind workforce.
of the future by training safer, more competent entry level and intermediate technicians. Joel and I visited the Safety Technology USA training facilities in Abilene, Texas recently. So if you haven’t been to Abilene, you should visit their facility. It’s pretty impressive. There we met with Brandon, and we’re really impressed by the level of training equipment and the variety of training programs.
So Brandon, Jeremy, welcome to the program.
Brandon McKelvain: Yeah, thank you, Allen.
Allen Hall: We need thousands of wind technicians. And right now, especially in West Texas, where you guys are there’s a huge demand for technicians that are trained and are knowledgeable in the wind industry. And, one of the, one of the programs you have To do that is the wind start program.
And I want to start there because I want to everybody understand what is the wind start program. And if you want to get into wind, why would you choose that program?
Jeremy McKelvain: What we do is we go out to career fairs trade schools, community college. advertise WindStart. Yes, it is STL or safety technology but it’s a program for it.
We get them interested and tell them what we offer through our WindStart program at safety technology, get them interested and then get them signed up for these classes. Give them their relevant training, all their certifications give them some extra training as well. That’s a little bit more technical to prepare them for an entry level job into the wind industry.
And then connect them with our partners that we have, our customers that we have for interviews, try and get them hired on right away. You mentioned that we have thousands of people that we need to hire. By 2030, it’s estimated that we need to hire close to 500, 000 bodies for the wind industry.
So doing this as a wind star program as the manager go in and we try and find those bodies there. You get good paying jobs. You have a reliable career. And for me, my whole thing was, I love helping people. I love helping people and guiding people. I’ve done it for 20 years in the Air Force. Now I just transitioned into this, so that’s what the windstar program is a way to introduce people into the wind industry.
Let’s be real. Let’s face it. Renewable energy is the way of the future and through safety technology, we can train those people through the windstar program and get them in an amazing career in wind as a wind technician. That’s it.
Joel Saxum: So you guys are going to high schools, community colleges what other kind of community outreach you do you guys do?
Cause you’re actually being like the boots on the ground, going and grabbing these people. Cause that’s what the industry needs, right? We know there’s training centers dot, dot it all over the place, but that effort to actually be the people that are going in talking to who could be these candidates and bringing them in to get them to that training.
That’s what’s really needed. So you guys are actually doing the boots on the ground activities as well.
Jeremy McKelvain: I went to one in Roswell, New Mexico last week that was for the job corps, for students young people who were either didn’t finish high school and they’re going back to finish their diploma, get their GED and learn some trait.
They reached out and wanted to see if we could, If we could attend. And I went and those people, they were extremely excited to see me. The students were, but also the director of the job corps and some of their instructors that taught their electrical training, their painting, their construction, their plumbing.
It’s just getting our voice out there, our name out there, and getting people interested for to basically spread the word on.
Allen Hall: So who is your typical candidate? What, like where, what’s their background education level? What are they looking to do for, to further their career?
Jeremy McKelvain: A lot of them know people, either friends or family that have been in the wind industry, and they know about it.
They want to do it. They just don’t know how to get into it. Or we’ll have recent high school graduates. People that did not finish a four year degree that want a job, want a good, reliable, good paying job with benefits just like our partners have. And those are the ones that really seem to pique the interest.
Somebody that wants to make something, make a better life for themselves and their families.
Allen Hall: And are they primarily based in Texas or are they coming from elsewhere?
Jeremy McKelvain: Right now we have traveled mainly through Texas. Thank you But I have had people reach out to me from Illinois, Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico Iowa, South Africa.
I’ve had people from the UK reach out. We are, we’re not going to discriminate. And that’s one of my big things that I definitely learned in the military is provide people a chance. Diversity makes your workforce. And different points of view, work ethics. That’s what we want. We want to give people a chance.
We want to give them the tools to succeed in what we’re doing and what we can provide.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. So right now we’re talking about the wind start program. So when someone goes into the wind start program, what can they expect as far as costs, the act of education, they come out of there, any certifications they come out with and it’s in the length of time so that, if they’re listening, go, okay, I understand basically what’s required of me.
And. And what I’ll leave the program with.
Jeremy McKelvain: Our WindStart program has has a couple of different options. We offer a three week course and a four week course. Our three week course focuses around the GWO certifications, the Global Wind Organization certifications. You get your basic safety training, your basic technical training, your advanced rescue training, and then you get to take an elective.
Now that four week course, you’re going to get all of those things as well, but you’re also going to get An additional five days that focuses more on your technical training your your electrical, your mechanical, your hydraulics, things like that. That’s gonna be a little bit more industry specific, which everything really is.
But that’s gonna. going to give you a little bit more, but that’s our four week course.
Joel Saxum: So they may not come out of there as an expert, but at least he’s been exposed to, it’s going to not be the first time they’ve heard the word hydraulic or electric motor or something. When they get to the field, they may have, they’ll seen it before and they may have some working knowledge of it and, be that new team member that is going to need to be trained up in the real world, they’re not coming in completely green. They’ve got. They’ve got all their safety search.
They’re ready to hit the field. And they’ve been exposed to the, the general concepts within a wind turbine. To me, they’ll be steps ahead, right? Light years ahead of someone that’s just walking off the street.
Brandon McKelvain: The WindStar program, it really it hits home to me personally, because, What Jeremy’s talking about that was me, I didn’t have I wasn’t gonna go to school for four years I was you know, I was not suited well for that didn’t want anything to do with school But I needed a good pay a job, you know Wasn’t you know, I needed to get out and work, And that’s the other thing is, to go to a you know A two year trade school or something like that also wasn’t in the cards for me I needed something quick.
I needed to just get in. And, fortunately I was hired, right out of high school, but I was just thrown off into the deep end, and there, there wasn’t good training for me for the first few years and whatnot. And then I linked up with a better company and I got the good training and I grew up around a shop atmosphere and, things like that.
I knew, mechanics and, all that good stuff. My dad was a mechanic going to shop and. So I knew some stuff, but when it came to things like electricity, I knew nothing and I had no business being out there, so we come at it from a unique perspective.
All of our instructors here have, most of them have over 10 years of field experience in this industry, and they really know what the competencies are and what we need. And all of us have that same perspective of man I wish I would have known this a long time ago.
I wish I would have known this day one These are the fundamentals. Why aren’t why isn’t anybody teaching us these things, and it’s simple stuff, like schematics, digital multimeters just very basic fundamental things that we’ve tried to push into the Windstar program, for us, it’s the experience of this is the, this is what we feel like is the most pertinent information to get into three, four weeks, and that’s going to build safety, but it also triggers a base for for them to start growing as technicians.
And those are the things we really want to focus on.
Joel Saxum: So Brandon, now we’ve been talking about the WindStart program, but when Alan and I visited the facility, there was a lot more than that going on. Actually, matter of fact, we visited two facilities, right? We visited a brand new training center that you guys were building out for more technical.
There was a frickin gearbox in there. You had awesome setups for bore scope inspections, and you had cabinets for, electrical training and all kinds of tools. It was a great, that was a great facility, but the first one we were at, All kinds of training going on, advanced rescue, you had mock ups of nacelles where people had to, pull, basically pull, what would be a body, I’m gonna call it a dummy, not that we’re, none of us are dummies, but they had to pull them, had to pull them through a whole tower set up out back for for rescue training and, going over, we talked at length about, that, that last step going over the edge when you’re descending on ropes, but you had all kinds of other training things and there, and the whole parking lot was full.
There was people from. crane companies and service companies, ISPs doing all kinds of different safety training, CPR stuff. So you want to touch on some of the other things that you guys offer as well?
Brandon McKelvain: Yeah, absolutely. Like Jeremy said, the GWO, the basic technical, basic safety, the advanced rescue we do a lot of QEW, qualified electrical worker training for low voltage, high voltage based on the 2024 version of 70E.
That’s really popular and honestly, that’s become one of my favorite courses out there because I think that’s one of the things that the industry isn’t doing that great of a job, at least in terms of execution. So that one’s great. But yeah, the technical facility, we’re starting to build out more advanced courses gearbox, bore scope class we’re working on adding a Three phase motor control class.
So I think that’s going to be very beneficial. That’s another thing that the I think is lacking a little bit as far as the, the education for our technicians because we deal with a lot of three phase and as and I’m just speaking from experience, but I didn’t understand three phase the way I should, so there we are again, we’re looking back at things that, really would have helped us as technicians, not only from a safety perspective, but, Also to just grow and develop, those are the things we’re trying to focus on. And, as we continue to build out those more advanced courses, that’s great.
But really, the wind start is that, okay, what’s day one? What is what does it take to get somebody, say, out of high school or who wants to change career path? Somebody coming out of oil and gas, or a veteran coming out of the, services. What does it take to get them, not only safe, but also start introducing them?
To, to these concepts that they’re really going to need as a technician in wind.
Allen Hall: The facility if I’m coming into a training facility, one of the scary parts here is, does it have the latest equipment? Does it, are they, do they have classrooms that are upkept and clean? And do they have, even the fundamentals like, is there restrooms?
Those kind of silly things matter if you’re going to be there for three or four weeks. If you’re going to be there for a day, Not mad or so much, but when Joel and I took the tour of both facilities, clean, up to date, modern, had all the proper equipment, particularly all the, like the voltmeters and all that kind of thing.
Borescopes, new. The equipment that’s being used out in the real world. So it’s not such a huge jump where you’re going from the classroom to an actual turbine. That’s the stuff they’re using. And you’re putting your hands on it as a new entry. into that wind turbine technician world. You need that, right?
You need to be familiar with the equipment they’re using out there. And I think this is where your training makes total sense for someone who’s coming into the industry that probably has mechanical skills, has some electrical skills as we see the new technicians roll in, but they haven’t played with the fancy toys yet.
Joel Saxum: That may be the downfall. You guys stuff may be too advanced and too nice for them. They’re going to, they’re going to get out into a turbine and be like, this wasn’t what it was like when I was in training.
Brandon McKelvain: But we can take them out of the tower whenever it’s 110 degrees, then they they get a good experience.
Joel Saxum: Wait for a dust storm to roll through Abilene and then go outside. Come on guys.
Brandon McKelvain: No, we really appreciate that. And and it, and again, I think that’s the, that’s the fidelity of this, and that’s why the experience really matters and coming from the industry and it’s certainly not me.
We’ve got some really good instructors here and the secret is I’m a C minus guy myself, right? So if they can get their delivery to where I can understand what they’re teaching, hey we’re doing really good, and we have a good product,
Allen Hall: Brandon, I want to get to that point because I do think people downgrade themselves based on what happened in high school. And I think that’s a tragic mistake. If you’re a C plus student in high school, it has really no influence on what you’re going to do going forward, right? It’s time to pick up that heavy load and put that on your back and do the right thing here.
You can get educated. The people I mean are technicians or smart people, right? They may not have, they may not understand calculus, but who the heck cares? They make computers for that. Yeah, to each their own. But the thing is Joel and I spent a good couple of weeks in Oklahoma and Texas meeting a whole bunch of technicians Those guys are doing all right.
A lot of them are doing great. Yeah, it’s, it can be a great profession and you don’t have to have a perfect high school score to get in to learn how to do electrical work, to do how, learn how to do mechanical work, to learn how to climb a turbine. Those things are skills. Those are your hands and your brains working together, which is a talent still.
Brandon McKelvain: Yeah, and and this was something that really changed me whenever I got into the training was, Oh, very good. You realize exactly what you said, high school, even college is really no basis to what, you can do is in terms of performance in your career. Because a lot of that is focused around teacher centered learning lectures and things like that, which are great for some people, but not for a lot of us, especially the ones that are going to be more technician more hands on or go into more vocational schemes.
So we try to make things as student centered as possible. That’s where all those tools and, the meters and all that stuff comes in because you, if you’re putting those on the desk and they have something to touch and to follow along with, and then at the end of it, they have a knowledge check to where they can go out in the shop and they can try to implement the knowledge that you’re trying to to give them it’s great.
And that’s not only just, that’s just adult learners in general, I think, because we have good experience, you’re not dealing with people that have nothing, you can. You can find something that they know that they’re already really sharp at. And we just, we try to just build on that.
Joel Saxum: And like you said, all of your trainers are ex technicians. So they’ve been through it. They’ve been in that position before they’d been in the turbine. They, it’s not you’re listening to an HR professor teach you about HR. That’s never actually worked in the, in HR. You know what I mean?
So and I guess and I guarantee that almost all of you can be on the same page as this one is sometimes a client, an asset owner will send some of their engineers from the back office out to the field to go visit the turbines. Those people need their hands held by the technicians that are out there doing the work when they go up tower.
And this hands in your pockets, hands in your pockets.
Allen Hall: So let’s talk about how people can get rolled, enrolled at STL either in the WindStart program or some of your GWO training that’s there. How does that happen? What’s the, Best steps to get started here.
Brandon McKelvain: Yeah if people want to sign up they can go to our websites.
We have a tab dedicated to the WindStart program. Very short information that they fill out and then somebody gets in contact with them gives them, a lot of good detail on the program which is also available on the website. But if they have any questions or, want to talk to somebody Jeremy will be reaching out to them or somebody else.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. One of the things I want to touch on here as well as there is some financial assistance available. So through the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act. There’s a possibility of up to 4, 500 towards course fees. There’s also some Sally Mae funding eligible. And then you guys actually, I believe because of the IRA bill are working forward towards getting that apprenticeship program going that will fulfill that for people in the field as well.
Brandon McKelvain: That is correct. And those are all things that we’re super excited about. Because, we recognize that not everybody can do this, financially and, you look, let’s be honest. We’re targeting people that want to get out there quickly and start working, right? So they probably, they’re ready to go make some money.
So if we can assist them in any way, that’s exactly what we want to try to do. And we’re already starting to do that right here on our own backyard. Abilene is, I call it The wind capital of Texas, and like you guys said, there’s a lot of technician jobs just in West Texas.
So let’s start right here, we’re starting to reach out to as many people as we can and just letting them know. And, Jeremy touched on it earlier. I think a lot of it is, there’s plenty of people that want into the industry, but they have no clue where to start.
And, you think about it this way, probably the top five emplo employers that have the most technicians in the U. S. If you weren’t in the industry, you probably have no clue who they are, I could say some really big names to you guys, and sure, yeah, I know all about them.
But if I say it to somebody who’s getting out of high school or is just outside the industry in general, They go, okay, that’s cool, but they have no clue some of them. They go. Oh, I didn’t know they did that I thought they just made microwaves, right? And you guys can you can deduce who I’m talking about But that’s the point, and so I think that’s why things like the wind start program and what Jeremy’s doing this grassroots approach of He’s he’s My heart goes out to him because it’s got to be frustrating, because he’s going out there and he’s having these same conversations again and and, but that’s what needs to happen.
That’s what needs to happen. I don’t know how else you do it, unless you start running ads in the Superbowl or something.
But that’s it was.
Joel Saxum: We’ll wait to see that next year. But you guys are also doing your, you’re helping buy side sell side, right? So all the companies the big ones that we’re talking about, whether it’s an OEM or a big ISP or anybody, they’re looking for people.
Contact STL as well, because not only can you get your people that you have trained, but they’re bringing in a pool and Jeremy becomes basically one of your best recruiters that you actually don’t pay for. Because he’s going out grassroots, grabbing the people, getting them trained, and then basically can provide you a portfolio of, Hey, all these guys are ready to hit all these guys or girls ready to hit the field.
You want some of them? And they’re already vetted. They already have a little bit of training that’s. So if I was an ISP, I’d be contacting you guys.
Brandon McKelvain: Absolutely. And that’s the idea. People can scoop them up as they come through the program and they’ve had some financial assistance. Hey that’s even better for the companies, cause otherwise they’re going to hire them without experience and then send them here anyway, probably.
So it’s a win for everybody and that’s what we’re trying to do. Jeremy mentioned that 500k number, which just is crazy to me every time I hear that, is all we know to do, to try to start chipping away at that. And hopefully, everybody else gets on board with that.
Start talking to your neighbors start in your own community, there’s plenty of hard working people out there, I worked some really hard jobs growing up, did some, pre bar roofing, construction, things like that, and it makes you appreciate, finding a good job, finding a good career, so I know there’s a lot of hard working talent out there.
And what we’re teaching isn’t rocket science, it’s, it, you can get as deep into it as you want, but at an entry level for a wind tech, you can pick this stuff up pretty easy. You just need a good work mentality. You got to show up and be a hard worker and listen and learn and.
That’s it. You can do really good.
Allen Hall: Like you said, Brandon, we have a lot of technicians that need to fill that void in there. Oh, there’s several good paying jobs available right now. So if you get trained up you can be part of the wind revolution that’s happening in Texas and all around the United States.
So reach out to everybody at STL by going to the website at safetytechnologyusa. com. Brandon, Jeremy, it’s been great to have you on the program and yeah, keep us up to date as things progress because the wind technician shortage needs to end and you’re part of that fix. Thank you guys.
Brandon McKelvain: Thank you, Allen. Thank you, Joel.
https://weatherguardwind.com/stl-windstart-wind-technician-shortage/
Asking the congress to “address the climate crisis” is something of a joke. Most of them have their seats by virtue to their allegiance to Big Oil, and, for many, their position on climate change is that it’s a hoax.
Weather Guard Lightning Tech
IWTG Consulting on Pitch Bearing Cracks, Loose Root Inserts
Jon Zalar, founder of IWTG Consulting, joins to discuss broken blade bolts, cracked pitch bearings, loose root inserts, and early detection.
Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!
Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining light on wind energy’s brightest innovators. This is the progress powering tomorrow
Allen Hall: Jon, welcome back to the program.
Jon Zalar: Thanks for having me.
Allen Hall: Uh, last time I saw you, we were in Melbourne- Yep … at WOMA 2026, and that was a huge event. We know we’re gonna do it again next year in March three, the 3rd through the 5th, so you’re invited back, of course- I can’t wait … if you can make it. Yeah. Yeah.
It’s gonna be, it’s gonna be a good time. A lot is happening in the blade world and in the wind turbine world more broadly. A lot of things we’re hearing right now are related to blade bolt connection, pitch bearing inserts still. A lot of that still happening in the United States. What is the current status of, uh, the blade connection issues in the US?
I,
Jon Zalar: I feel like it’s a growing [00:01:00] issue, not super, super fast, but it seems to be getting a little worse. There’s, you know, more bolts breaking at that joint. Um, pitch bearing cracks are, seem to be pretty common. There’s different solutions for it, and then, you know, the root inserts are another thing that we’ve talked about before that seem to be happening more and more, or maybe more and more people are finding them ’cause they’re looking.
Allen Hall: What are the first indications that you have a blade bolt or some sort of joint issue at the root of a blade? What can you see?
Jon Zalar: A bolt laying in the hub bouncing around. Um, you know, from like a– looking at it from, like, the sensors on the turbine, it’s really hard to tell unless it gets really bad. Uh, some of the OEMs have some analytics developed to kinda start to indicate if there is a aero change because there’s missing bolts or root inserts are coming out, and they’re using that as a way to go figure out which ones to go inspect first.
Allen Hall: Really? Yeah. You think [00:02:00] the SCADA data will give you some indication that you have a, basically a little bit of a loose blade?
Jon Zalar: Yeah. I, I, I think because the number of turbines and the number of data points you have, I think there is a pretty good analytic out there right now.
Allen Hall: Wow. All right. I think a lot of our operators have not taken advantage of that.
Is, is that just b- based on the high-speed data, SCADA data, or is it low-speed data you could see that same effect?
Jon Zalar: I believe it’s on the low-speed data as well, but I bet the high-speed data was used to kinda develop it.
Allen Hall: Wow. All right. So that’s a huge help to operators. Yeah. So what are you looking for if you’re looking through SCADA data, what would be the couple of markers there that say, “Hey, maybe we ought to go look up at the– in the hub”?
Jon Zalar: I don’t know exactly what they’re using, but they would basically look for maybe an imbalance or looking for certain components that are being overworked.
Allen Hall: Oh, sure. Okay.
Jon Zalar: Yeah.
Allen Hall: So your pitch actuator may be getting a little bit overworked. It would seem like one of the places- I think that, yeah … that would get loaded, right?
Jon Zalar: Mm-hmm.
Allen Hall: Okay. [00:03:00] And any vibration monitoring going on? Because it, it, uh, in some cases you’re– I’m hearing, like, millimeter gaps-
Jon Zalar: Correct. Yeah …
Allen Hall: between the blade and the pitch bearing.
Jon Zalar: So probably a combination of the ALC sensors, at least on a GE turbine, looking at that. But the PCH box also is looking at the tower vibration, so it could be a combination of all three.
I don’t know the exact- Okay … details, but between all of that, I think there are some analytics that kinda say, “Hey, go take a look.” And then I think there’s some other companies that have- tools that go monitor it.
Allen Hall: Mm-hmm.
Jon Zalar: Dial indicators remotely or even, you know, people going up there with dial indicators to go kind of rotate the rotor and kind of see if there is gapping between the blade and the pitch bearing.
Allen Hall: Is that a safe situation in your– from the gapping? I’ve heard this where they’ve basically took shims and they’re trying to measure this gap or some sort of dial indication. Is that a smart thing to do? Is it even reliable to do it that way? [00:04:00]
Jon Zalar: I, I, I think there’s some reliability there. And like, you know, these are really big parts, right?
So like a little bit of gap, it, it’s probably expected to a point, but growing gaps is where you should be a little more scared.
Allen Hall: So you’re– you would have to go do that quarterly, monthly, weekly? How, how often would you have to do it to see the progression? Because I’ve heard stories of, uh, a couple of weeks from nothing to hub crack to, “Oh, it took a year or more.”
Jon Zalar: I think it depends on the issue. I think for– if you’re looking at that, the bolted joint itself between the root inserts and the, uh, bolts breaking itself, I, I think they’re doing about quarterly. Now, the pitch bearings inspections are also quarterly. They’re al- they’re, they’re leveraging the drone inspections for the blades, and they’re looking at the pitch bearings to see if they’re cracked, right?
Uh, you guys are doing that too.
Allen Hall: Okay.
Jon Zalar: I think Coraly is doing a good job mitigating the risk, feels like.
Allen Hall: Wow. All right. [00:05:00] Yolanda, looking at pitch bearings, you’ve looked at a lot of drone images in your lifetime. Mm-hmm. How much can you see on drone images on pitch bearings? Can you see cracks and, or y- or do you see grease, which is a really indication that something is wrong in the bearing?
Yolanda Padron: You can see grease. You can see the cracks pretty, pretty well. Yeah. The drone images are, are really high quality. Uh, but you did mention that it’s something that you’re seeing a lot more. Is it because there’s a lot more aging fleets, or is it a problem with a lot of the new turbines that are coming online?
Jon Zalar: I, I think it’s an, I think it’s a more of a fatigue problem, so the aging of the fleet. And also, I think more people are looking at it, right? ‘Cause, like, initially the drones that were looking for blade cracks weren’t looking at pitch bearings, but then pitch bearings started cracking, so now they added that to whatever they buy off the drone companies, right?
Go look at my pitch bearings, for example.
Allen Hall: Hmm.
Jon Zalar: So I, I think it’s a problem of the more you look sometimes, the more you find.
Yolanda Padron: Hmm.
Jon Zalar: Yeah.
Allen Hall: So we [00:06:00] have root insert issues, which are being addressed by a couple of different companies- Yes … uh, uh, with somewhat similar solutions. OEM is offering one right now also.
Jon Zalar: I, I think there’s three solutions. There’s two uptower that are basically looking at ways to go fill the void between the root insert itself and the blade root. Um, and I– there’s another company that’s also more of a downtower solution where they’re actually, like, r- drilling out the root inserts and putting new ones in that are gonna last better, longer.
Allen Hall: Okay. So the drilling out is, would be CNC onsite. Correct.
Jon Zalar: Yeah.
Allen Hall: And they’re based over in Europe. But th- the drilling out is a take the blade down, set it on the ground sort of- Yeah. Right … doing really fine machining on the, on the blade itself. So that, that’s a different, completely different insert that’s going into that-
Jon Zalar: Correct
Allen Hall: new hole or- Yep … clean hole, right? So it’s a, just a, uh, totally different kind of product versus trying to inject [00:07:00] some s- sort of epoxy or resin into the, the void.
Jon Zalar: Right. Yeah. Uh, I mean, you would prefer to do it uptower. It’s gonna cost you less money.
Allen Hall: Sure.
Jon Zalar: But you wanna make sure you do it right, so I think, uh, I do foresee it being a combination of both solutions kinda going forward.
Allen Hall: Is it dependent upon, like, how much damage has been already done, or what the fatigue w- uh, an estimate on what the fatigue life is?
Jon Zalar: I think it’s strictly on measurement perspective right now. So how much gapping you have, um, kinda determines what potential solutions you have.
Allen Hall: So the gaps aren’t big, right?
So the, the gaps I hear are one millimeter is k- kind of sort of start a problem.
Jon Zalar: Mm-hmm.
Allen Hall: Three millimeters is, “I need to be making decisions.”
Jon Zalar: Yeah. So- That, that’s what I’ve heard, too. Yes.
Allen Hall: Three millimeters is about a eighth of an inch.
Jon Zalar: Mm-hmm.
Allen Hall: So it’s not a lot of m-
Jon Zalar: But you can see sunlight through it if you’re s- down there.
Allen Hall: Okay. That’s not… Well, you should see. That’s not
Jon Zalar: good either. Yeah.
Allen Hall: Right. Okay. So in a, in a three millimeter situation then, you’re doing what? [00:08:00]
Jon Zalar: You’re trying to decide if the uptower solutions are something you wanna go try, ’cause they’re still in the trial mode from my understanding or-
Allen Hall: Okay …
Jon Zalar: people are learning a lot.
So I think when you get to that point, you’re calling some of those companies to say, “Hey, I have this issue. I got a couple blades with, you know, .3. Can you guy- you guys wanna come take a look at it, see if your solutions, if you guys wanna go use it or not?” And then I think the ones that get too bad, from my understanding right now, is they’re, they’re replacing the blades.
Allen Hall: So they’re taking the whole blade down.
Jon Zalar: Yes.
Allen Hall: And what’s the thought process in that? Uh, versus drilling out the inserts and putting new inserts in. Is there just a composite degradation that’s happened around those joints that it just puts it at risk or, or you have actually aged the blade much faster than you would otherwise have done?
Jon Zalar: I, I think they aged that particular connection too much. So I, I- Wow … either between the [00:09:00] fatigue or lack of epoxy resin, w- whatever the actual root cause is for that root insert coming out, when it gets that bad, it’s like you’re not gonna be able to inject enough To make it adhere
Allen Hall: You can’t de-age it.
Jon Zalar: Correct.
Allen Hall: Right?
Jon Zalar: Yeah.
Allen Hall: Bring back the youthfulness of the blade. Wow. All right. And we have seen this worldwide. I know in the, in the States you hear about it all the time, but it, this seems to be not a US- Correct … problem.
Jon Zalar: It’s a worldwide problem, yes.
Allen Hall: Okay. So if, if it’s a worldwide problem, are there more solutions on the way?
I know you talked about three of them already.
Jon Zalar: I have not heard of any other ones except those three as of today.
Allen Hall: Wow.
Jon Zalar: There could be other people working on it. I think there should be.
Allen Hall: So, yeah. You would think so, yeah. So we’ll, I guess we’ll eventually hear about it on the podcast. Usually people with technology will contact us.
They might call,
Jon Zalar: yeah. They might call you, they might call you tomorrow.
Allen Hall: Sure, they may. So that leads to sort of a subsequent issue, which I think is getting grouped together. So the [00:10:00] hub crack, pitch bearing crack, root insert pullout issue is also discussed with blade bolts being broken.
Jon Zalar: Correct.
Allen Hall: Are they related or are they separate engineering problems?
Jon Zalar: If you look at them individually, you’d probably come up with some separate answers, but if you combine them all together, you kind of start looking at is there too much loading happening in the leading and trailing edge of the blade? ‘Cause the hub cracks, the root inserts, and the blade bolts, from my understanding, are happening at those two highly loaded areas of the, the blade or that whole rotor connection.
So I mean, I do feel the root cause is probably a little higher loads than anticipated.
Allen Hall: I think everybody’s talked about when they’ve done the injection method and the drilling method, all they’re discussing is leading edge, trailing edge.
Jon Zalar: Yes.
Allen Hall: And how– It’s a question of how many- Correct … are you gonna replace.
So th- [00:11:00] that’s, those are the two highly loaded spots on the bolted connection.
Jon Zalar: Correct.
Allen Hall: And that’s where blade bolts are also breaking or, or the bolts breaking elsewhere around the periphery?
Jon Zalar: I don’t have all the data, but what I had seen, it’s very similar areas.
Allen Hall: So if you don’t pull the insert out, you’re then loading the bolt.
Cr- Right It’s one or the other, right? Right. Yeah. So the, the, the load path is the load path, so it’s coming through the insert into the bolt. Bolt’s carrying it into the pitch bearing. Pitch bearing’s carrying it into the hub.
Jon Zalar: Correct.
Allen Hall: Hub carrying it downtower. So eventually, one of those, uh, links in the chain is- The weakest.
Yeah … is, is the le- is the weakest. What is it about blade bolts that is so dangerous? We hear– we walk onsite to an O&M building, there are signs saying, you know, “Pay attention for loose bolts. Look around on the ground for loose bolts.” We’re gonna– and as electrical engineer, like, “Whoa.” Bolts should not be falling out of this tower.
What i- what is that sort of sequence where a [00:12:00] bolt would escape from the nacelle?
Jon Zalar: So let’s just use one bolt. One bolt breaks, falls in the hub, bouncing around, doing some– potentially doing some damage inside the hub. And ’cause these turbines, you don’t need to go out there every day ’cause they do run pretty good, right?
Right. You just do your regular maintenance. And if you don’t really know about that, ’cause, like, it bounces around for a while, then it usually gets, like, lodged behind a, uh, either center box or pitch cabinet or actually in the front sometimes. Kinda don’t know it happened. But, you know, frees itself up, keeps bouncing around, it, it could escape through the hatch covers ’cause, you know, people have to get into the hub anyway.
And I’m sure a lot of people listening here that have sites, like, you know, probably found some bolts laying on the ground, which is a little scary.
Allen Hall: Right. So is, is the busting the hatch opening levers? I know there, there’s a couple different ways to get into that hatch. Yeah. But, uh, is it just completely busting the hatch?
Yeah. So it’s– [00:13:00] okay. So you see a– so if you see a loose hatch panel, you have an issue. You probably gotta be careful about coming up on that turbine?
Jon Zalar: Potentially. A lot, a lot of hatches are, you know, not always maintained well.
Allen Hall: Right. I’ve seen them, I’ve seen loose ones, yeah.
Jon Zalar: Yeah.
Allen Hall: Okay. So that, that would be a sign that– but though if, if you’re approaching a turbine, one look on the ground.
And Yolando, you, you’ve seen a lot of turbines. So are you, are we looking on the ground and seeing what’s around the turbine before we approach the turbine now? Yeah. Just, just a sanity check?
Yolanda Padron: Yeah. Be aware also of what’s happening on site, right? Because if it’s some- if it’s a problem on site, you need to be extra careful when you’re approaching any turbine there.
Uh, is it something that people maybe should start thinking about implementing, like, a sensors earlier on than when they’re seeing the issue actually happen?
Jon Zalar: Yeah. I, I, I think that’s a potential, ’cause it, the quicker you catch it, the less damage you’re gonna do, and it also reduce the risk of [00:14:00] it, um, falling out of the hub And I’ve worked with a couple of my, uh, customers for some, like, potential ways to detect it.
Still kind of trialing it right now. But I, I do think there’s gonna be some benefit from a safety reduction, but also from a strictly a damage. ‘Cause, like, you get a couple bolts bouncing around there, and you bang up some cabinets or some pitch motors, that’s expensive and hard to go fix.
Yolanda Padron: Yeah, we were talking about it earlier too.
Like, it goes down, it can hit a transformer, it can hit, like, a truck or someone.
Jon Zalar: Chance of it hitting someone. Yeah. I mean, I don’t care what hard hat you have on, it’s not gonna do anything.
Yolanda Padron: Yeah.
Allen Hall: So what kind of sensor should you be putting onto the turbine if you don’t have access to the SCADA data or you don’t know what the correct algorithm is to suss out there’s something wrong up there?
But a, a bolt breaking is not gonna be something that a SCADA would even pick up, I don’t think. One bolt out of the whole- Yeah. No.
Jon Zalar: No way. Okay. I mean, there’s a– I think there’s, like, [00:15:00]one company looking at more of a, like, mechanical way to, like, prevent the bolt from coming out. I forgot the name of it.
Allen Hall: Okay.
Jon Zalar: Um, and then what I was looking at was more of a, like, you know, microphone type detection to kind of listen for that.
Allen Hall: It would make a lot of noise.
Jon Zalar: Yeah. It seems like it works. It, um, yeah, still more development needed on my end.
Allen Hall: So- The engineer in me was, is saying, “Why are we not putting strain gauges on bolts?”
I picked on the leading and the trailing. It’s like right dead center there to look at, even if it’s just two strain gauge bolts to see what the loads are.
Jon Zalar: So like there are s- there are bolts that are, or that are made with the strain gauges built in that you can use to go, you know, monitor that. But you also need to understand like what was the design intent.
So unless you’re working with the OEM, you don’t really know what you’re seeing is good or bad. You just say, “Oh-
Allen Hall: You just see a number.
Jon Zalar: Yeah. Right. I mean like, and if you install, I don’t know, four, you’d be like, “All right. Leading and trailing edge are higher [00:16:00] than the other two.” Well, yeah, it’s supposed to be, but like is a 10% difference expected or not expected?
Allen Hall: Is that something where if you’re, especially if you’re in a full service agreement, and a lot of these turbines are- Yeah … for the first couple of years, if you were to do that, it’s something you would just say to the OEM, “Hey, this is, these are the loads we’re seeing from the strain gauges on these bolts.
Does this make sense to you?” Or, or would an OEM just not even respond to that kind of inquiry?
Jon Zalar: I mean, I think it’s all about relationship with the OEM. I, I, I think
Allen Hall: it- I think they would wanna know.
Jon Zalar: I have a feeling they probably are looking.
Allen Hall: Okay.
Jon Zalar: I mean, ’cause I mean they have the test turbines too that they probab- that, that I know they have instrumented heavily.
Allen Hall: Yeah. So they, they’re probably getting at least some feedback. Th- that’s the problem. Yeah. And you worked on the other side, right? I have. So you worked for an OEM doing the RTAs. The first problem is you don’t have data, so now you gotta go get the data.
Jon Zalar: Correct.
Allen Hall: And that data is not available tomorrow. No.
‘Cause you’re gonna have to go run some sort of design of experiment to go figure out if [00:17:00] there is even a true problem or even what the root causes could be.
Jon Zalar: And it, and it’s expensive to go instrument a blade and get the data back at the right speed and connected to the turbine data. I mean, I rem- I, I used to say it’s about like 300 to 500,000 to go put a couple gauges on a blade just with all the equipment you need to get the data correct.
Allen Hall: To get the right data.
Jon Zalar: Get the right data at the right frequency connected to the controller. It’s, it’s very expensive.
Allen Hall: Wow. Okay. Yeah. I, I don’t, I don’t see a lot of operators doing that.
Jon Zalar: And especially connecting it to the operating data, right? So like if you go put a strain gauge and I don’t know, you’re curtailed, you’re only making, I don’t know, a megawatt- Doesn’t matter.
And if you don’t know what the turbine’s doing and you’re looking at this, like, strain gauge data, it’s really hard to correlate anything.
Allen Hall: So you need a full suite of data. Yeah. That includes weather data- Yeah … at some level, right? Gust winds and- Oh,
Jon Zalar: yeah …
Allen Hall: average wind speed. You need the anemometer. You need which, which way [00:18:00] the n- cell’s pointing.
Y- uh, you would need a lot of information- And what the controller’s- … to even suss it out …
Jon Zalar: and what the controller’s doing, right? Right. ‘Cause, like, every turbine, the controller’s trying to, like, you know, balance the rotor the whole time. It’s trying to, you know, micro pitch depending on what the winds are doing.
And if you don’t know what all that stuff’s doing, like, it’s really hard to correlate a strain gauge measurement to is that bad or not.
Allen Hall: It’s a complicated problem.
Jon Zalar: Yes. That’s why RCAs take, you know, a long time, and they’re not done in two weeks.
Allen Hall: No, they’re done in a year.
Jon Zalar: Yeah.
Allen Hall: Typically, or longer. So what should an operator be thinking about now?
If, if we s- get our drone images back, we’re scanning through them like, “Oh, there’s a crack” What am I doing next besides calling you and connecting to your LinkedIn page?
Jon Zalar: So right now with the pitch bearing crack, um, some of the OEMs are providing stiffener plates to put over the crack and try to run it.
Allen Hall: So that’s a doubler plate, basically. A double plate. Doubler
Jon Zalar: plate, yes. [00:19:00]
Allen Hall: Yeah. Okay. So even in a, in a crack scenario, that pitch bearing, if given mechanical support, can run like that?
Jon Zalar: That’s my understanding, yes. That, that potentially could run for some period of time. I don’t know if it’ll make it 20 years or not, but it’ll buy you time for sure.
Allen Hall: Does that involve a crane to do that work or is that just… My recollection, that was in pieces, like there, it’s not a ring, it’s a, a couple of pieces that you’d be able to bolt on without taking the-
Jon Zalar: No, it’s a- … blade down … it’s a, it’s a single piece that-
Allen Hall: It’s like a single casting kind of thing.
Jon Zalar: Right. And I, I think you need some like small crane, like a jig crane or one of those-
Allen Hall: Just to support the blade while you do it?
Jon Zalar: And to go put it in, right. Okay. Yeah, I don’t think, you’re not taking the blade off. You’re not taking the
Allen Hall: blade down.
Jon Zalar: Correct. Yeah. It’s, it’s done with the blade up there.
Allen Hall: Okay.
Jon Zalar: You’re putting new, putting longer studs in and putting the plate on.
Allen Hall: So first step is let’s get the joint reinforced. Right.
That’s the easy first step.
Jon Zalar: Right. Although there has been some cases where since [00:20:00]you’ve put that stiffener plate on, the loads get spread out to the end of the plate, and then you- Sure … you could see cracks there.
Allen Hall: Okay. All right. So the loads- It, that- … have to go somewhere …
Jon Zalar: loads have to go somewhere. That’s, that is a bottom line.
Allen Hall: All right. So you’re just changing where the load path is, so you have to be cognizant of that. Okay. Sure. Fine. But if you have, uh, especially in the United States, you don’t have 10 of these turbines, you have 50, 100- 100 … 200, 300 of these things, or thousands as it, as it turns out. Are there simple solutions that can be applied to, just to give me a sense, like that turbine’s having a problem, but the one next to it’s not, and, and just, just from a maintenance spin standpoint where I’m not just blanketing everything and trying to do everything to all these turbines at once, how do I, how do I manage this?
Jon Zalar: I, I think it’s like being very observant. So like, you know, making sure you’re looking at the pitch bearings from the drone images, right? Um, also talking [00:21:00] to your maintenance people like, “Hey, are, are you finding a bunch of broken bolts? Like, what positions?” Like, you know, if I was back at the OEM, I would like to have as much data as possible on this issue.
Like how many bolts are, when did you find them, what positions? A lot of times we, when I was there, like we would not get all that information, so it’s like really hard to run an RCA without that information.
Allen Hall: Sure. Yeah, where did this bolt break in the ring?
Jon Zalar: Right.
Allen Hall: Could tell you a lot. Is it just a b- bad lot of bolts, or is it something more load related?
Jon Zalar: Correct.
Allen Hall: Wow. Okay.
Yolanda Padron: Yeah, I think that’s a really good point, too, to make sure that you’re connected with like every stage of the operations. ‘Cause I know that everybody’s obviously really, really busy on a wind farm, but it’s really common for like an engineer to have certain data and the site team to just be running around and having a lot of data, but maybe they don’t realize that, oh, it’s important to know how many bolts per tower are coming down.
Jon Zalar: Correct. Yeah
Allen Hall: That’s a lot of work
Jon Zalar: It definitely-
Allen Hall: It’s a tremendous effort if you’re gonna [00:22:00] go after this problem and, and solve it RCS
Jon Zalar: are hard. They
Allen Hall: are. Yeah. All of it. Yeah. Machines are complicated today. There’s a lot of computer-driven s- things about them, and then you have these loading issues, and you have composite materials.
Th- there’s just, y-
Jon Zalar: you got to get- It’s a very complex
Allen Hall: It’s a machine, right? Yeah. It’s a complex machine. So how do people reach out to… You’re, you’re the head of IWTG, which is based in South Carolina, but you do consulting worldwide. Yes. And, and you are a huge resource because you understand the complexities of these problems.
How do people get ahold of you and, and get something started if they have a, a, a blade bolt issue or an insert issue or a cracked pitch bearing? Where do they start?
Jon Zalar: They can send me an email, jzalar@iwtgconsulting.com.
Allen Hall: Okay. And you have a great LinkedIn page, so you can connect with you on LinkedIn.
Jon Zalar: Yes.
Yeah, I have one
Allen Hall: of those. Yes. Or you could just come to WOMA in [00:23:00]2027. Yeah. You can. You can meet John there and, and arrange everything there. So John, it’s great to see you, and thank you for coming up. We, uh, we’re recording this at the world headquarters of Weather Guard Lightning Tech, and, uh, John just lives down the street in, in, in US terms.
Yeah. So it’s, it’s great to have John come and visit us up here in North Carolina. So John, thank you so much for joining us.
Jon Zalar: Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
Trump’s (fairly successful) attempts to divide America are just a means to the end of staying in power so as to be able to continue to loot the U.S. treasury.
At this point, there are three essential factions in the United States:
- A small number of extremely powerful billionaires
- The MAGA base of white nationalist / hateful morons who believe that only Trump can save us from communism, racial impurity, and godlessness
- Decent, educated people
-
Climate Change12 months ago
Guest post: Why China is still building new coal – and when it might stop
-
Greenhouse Gases12 months ago
Guest post: Why China is still building new coal – and when it might stop
-
Greenhouse Gases2 years ago嘉宾来稿：满足中国增长的用电需求 光伏加储能“比新建煤电更实惠”
-
Climate Change2 years ago嘉宾来稿：满足中国增长的用电需求 光伏加储能“比新建煤电更实惠”
-
Climate Change2 years ago
Bill Discounting Climate Change in Florida’s Energy Policy Awaits DeSantis’ Approval
-
Renewable Energy10 months agoSending Progressive Philanthropist George Soros to Prison?
-
Greenhouse Gases1 year ago
嘉宾来稿：探究火山喷发如何影响气候预测
-
Carbon Footprint2 years agoUS SEC’s Climate Disclosure Rules Spur Renewed Interest in Carbon Credits