Weather Guard Lightning Tech

We4Ce & CNC Onsite’s Re-FIT Blade Root Repair Goes Global

Edo Kuipers from We4Ce and Søren Kellenberger from CNC Onsite discuss their Re-FIT blade root repair solution, which has been successfully implemented at a wind farm in Southeast Asia. The solution allows operators to keep blades onsite while repairing critical blade root bushing failures.

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Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining Light on Wind. Energy’s brightest innovators. This is the Progress Powering Tomorrow.

Allen Hall: Ed0o and Soren, welcome to the program.

Edo Kuipers: Thank you very much.

Thank you both.

Allen Hall: We have some really exciting news from you, from the field, but first I, I want to start with the problem, which. A lot of operators have right now, which is this blade root, bushing it in or insert issue, which is really critical to blades and you’re the creator of the device that’s gonna save a lot of blades.

You want to talk about what happens? When these blade root bushings fail?

Edo Kuipers: Uh, yeah. What we have seen is that it especially concerns, um, uh, polyester type of blades. And what we see is that, um, bushings and, and, and composites, they are not attached to each other anymore. And after a [00:01:00] while, blades are simply flying off.

That’s the, that’s the whole, that’s the whole problem. Of course. And now going back to the root cause, the root cause here is we are working with, with foes and. The fact is that if you’re working with polyesters, they already have, um, at the, uh, uh, during the process, the curing process, they have already curing shrinkages.

So we have already curing shrinkages, which means we have already initial micro flagging going on, on the interface between the bushing and, and, and, and the limited around it. And that reduces, that reduces the um, surface. Carrying area. And by doing so, because we have less area, surface area that can transfer the loads from the hub, um, from the blades to the hub, eh, we have limited amount of, of years on running.

So we are reducing, uh, the, the amount of years [00:02:00] that the blades are on the, on the, on the turbine safely.

Joel Saxum: This problem is compounding right now simply because there’s a lot of the global wind turbine fleet that’s starting to age. Right. Like we, we, we went through a big push in, you know, the early two thousands, 2000 tens, 2000 twenties to now where, you know, if you look at the country of Spain, we hear that regularly, Alan is, Hey, we’re getting to the end of life.

We’re close to the end of life. Then there’s people saying, what is the remaining useful life? Where are we at? Um, and this is one of those issues where. It can develop rapidly, right? So if there’s an issue, you can, if you catch it in time, great. You’re good. But it can develop rapidly and that can lead to catastrophic losses.

But I guess my, one of the questions I want to ask you, and you guys of course have done some commercial here. Uh, how many turbines do you think are affected by this globally affected by this root bushing issues?

Edo Kuipers: Oh, that’s a good one. If I, if I talk a number of blades at the moment, we are more or less at a ball point figure about 30, [00:03:00] 40,000.

Blades. Wow. Worldwide. So we see many us, we see many in South America and we see also in Southeast Asia, like India. And those blades are running, let’s say from 10 years, 12 years, and some of them also after six years,

Allen Hall: and a lot of manufacturing. Uh, blades happens in multiple sites, right? So if you have a particular OEM wind turbine, you may have a variety of different blades on your site.

You typically do. Some of them are polyesters, some of them may be epoxy, but it’s the polyester ones we need to pay attention to first, right?

Edo Kuipers: Correct. The one we are, uh, concentrating on with our solution are dealing with polyester blades because there we see the problem, especially in the, in the interface layer.

There are also root problems with epoxy types, but they are from a, from a different level.

Allen Hall: So the thing that we’re looking for when we start to see [00:04:00]the problem, so if I’m an operator and I have technicians out in the field and they’re looking at blades from the ground, typically very quickly, what are the first signs that you have problems with the bushings?

Edo Kuipers: What we generally see, the first signs is that there is a cracking going on in the ceiling, which is between the blade. The pitch bearing. So if you go up tower as a surface guy, then then look for those initial cracks, and if you see cracking, cracking in that sealant, then remove the sealant just by with a knife and, and, and go with a fill gauge to see if you’re caping going on between the root lum.

Uh, so between the bushing and the, and the, and the pitch bearing,

Allen Hall: so that sealant or gasket between the blade and the pitch bearing shouldn’t be moving or shouldn’t have flexed it. It shouldn’t have broken. It can flex. It’s made to flex a little bit, but if it breaks, it tells you there’s too much stress [00:05:00] on that sealant.

That’s really the first sign.

Edo Kuipers: That’s really the first sign. Then you still have time, but then you have to start monitoring

Allen Hall: and the, the monitoring is telling you what,

Edo Kuipers: once you. Notice this. What you have to do is, for example, you are positioning a leading edge, uh, under the tensile loading of the dead weight.

Then you measure a cap, then you pitch the blade, eh, that the, that, the, that the, that, that side is down. So it’s, it’s, it’s feeling a compressive loading, and then you can see if there is a difference. So what you’re doing is you’re measuring the variable cap. That’s a static gap, but the variation of the capping due to the, due to its own weight of the blade, and that is a sign that that movement is going on.

Allen Hall: So you’ll see compression versus tension, that gap get larger and smaller. There is always some movement in that gap, but it’s very limited if you, what typically is a threshold where you say. [00:06:00] If it’s beyond a couple of millimeters, that’s a problem. Where is that dimensional gap become an issue

Edo Kuipers: with our present customers?

We are saying, um, um, one millimeter and you have to hoist, uh, hoist the blade down.

Allen Hall: One millimeter is 40 thousandths of an inch. That’s not very much.

Edo Kuipers: If it’s, for example, five millimeters, I mean. It’s, it’s not, you’re in a, in a bad stage that within three months your, your blood, your blade could fly off.

And if you are in, in the range of one millimeter, the nice thing on that is that you have a limited amount of bushings, which needs to be replaced. So you are li limiting the effect of the repair.

Joel Saxum: So, but that’s the big thing here, right? So catching it early, it’s like anything in blades, we talk about this.

We’ve been, we’ve been beating this, this horse for a long time. Catch it early, fix it early, or you’re gonna be in a bad state. Because I mean, the, the, the worst thing that happens here, of course is the safety issue, loss of life or anything like that. But what? But the, [00:07:00] what We have seen blade breaks, blade comes down, hits the tower.

Then the tower comes down, then you’re replacing an entire turbine. And that’s, that’s horrible for the operator, the industry, everything in, in, in general. Um, but if you catch it early, now each blade has de, depending on the model, the make the design, um. 60 to 80 bushings. 60 to a hundred bushings. What’s that number?

Edo Kuipers: Yeah. 92 for example. Or 74 or, yeah. In that area.

Joel Saxum: Right. So, so, and when you, and when your solution is engaged, when the, you have to bring the, bring the blade down tower and then fix it if you catch it early. Are you talking, we’re fixing six of these, we’re fixing 40 of these. What does it usually look like?

Edo Kuipers: It’s, uh, in the, in the area of 24 to 30.

Joel Saxum: Okay.

Edo Kuipers: The nice thing on that, the nice thing is on that if we working with a drilling machine, we can do that in 24 hours drilling. So limited time. Limited time of, of [00:08:00] taking out the bushings. And if we would wait longer and we need to repair 60 bushings, it takes, let’s say 60 hours to, to drill out, so to lower the cost of the repair.

Because it’s like a chain reaction. Once it starts, it, it grows to lower the amount of the repair and the cost of repair, let’s, let’s not wait too long.

Allen Hall: Okay. So that’s a really good input into this discussion because I think a lot of operators assume if I have to do this repair, replace the bushings, I’m replacing a number of bushings regardless of the level of damage, because they’re gonna fail eventually.

But you know, what you’re saying is that. It starts in a highly loaded couple of bushings and spreads from there, if you can, if you can fix or upgrade those particular bushings, then the remaining bushings may be okay.

Edo Kuipers: Correct. Because there is always a highly loaded, like you said, and there’s always a a side which is more tensile loaded, and the other side is more compressive loaded, and especially the tensile loaded part is, is [00:09:00]more severely for the fatigue.

Joel Saxum: The other side of this is a blade replacement. So you’re either gonna, you’re going to have to, you’re gonna do something like this, or you’re gonna replace the blade. And, but now again, we’re talking about this aging fleets remaining useful life, what spares look like out in the field. A lot of these turbines.

Spares are not readily available for them. Right. If we’re talking about, and we’re talking about different markets like you, you ju you guys just executed. We’re gonna talk about this a little bit, but you just executed this amazing project, uh, over in the APAC region. It’s not easy to get blades shipped over there, or like in Australia or South America, like in the States.

We’re kind of lucky people don’t realize this, but we’re kind of lucky that we have a fleet of 75,000 turbines because there are spares around for some things. However, as these blades get older, like nobody’s gonna do you a run of a 12-year-old, 15-year-old blade, it’s what, whatever’s on the ground around the world is what we have.

And that is it Ev And then in composites, again, everything can be repaired, but it’s just how much, what is the [00:10:00] economic case for? So you guys are building that economic case to make this make sense.

Edo Kuipers: A new blade, let’s, let’s. Have the old fashioned prices of 10 euros per kilo or whatever, and you have a blade of 15 tons that will cost you like 150,000 euros.

As a new blade, you already paid for that price. Then you have to do it a second time. It’s not only that, it’s also the waiting time. If you have to wait for one year, your loss, your loss in, in, in, in, in, in revenue. Also, let’s say like 100, 150, maybe 200,000 depending on your feed into reef tariffs that you get.

It’s also, that’s also a loss. So the total thing will cost you already like easily like 200, 300,000 euros for for one turbine, right? Or one for one rot blade. If you do a repair, then there’s a repair. It’ll cost you like a fraction of that. It’ll cost you maybe like 30, 40,000 euros.

Joel Saxum: Yeah. And the reality is, is when you [00:11:00] replace one blade, you normally are replacing all three.

I mean, unless you, unless you can find a, a matching, you know, a good, well you, you get lucky and you find one blade that has the weight certificate and a bending moment certificate that matches your other. Two that are up tower. Mm, pretty rare. More than likely you’re getting all three new blades. So then all of a sudden your 150 turns into 450 before you even start it.

Soren Kellenberger: Absolutely. And that’s, that’s if you can get a replacement blade because if you need to go back to a, a manufacturer Right, they, they will not sell you that blade for the original 150,000 Euros. Uh, so. If they at all have a mold before they get it started up and all the initial cost in, in getting that up and running, you are looking at 2, 3, 4 times the price of the, of the new blade.

So it, it really adds up if you have to replace. And there’s of course also the whole discussion right now with, um, the old blades and all the waste it’s, uh, creating. So from an environmental perspective, it’s [00:12:00] also a huge benefit to, uh, repairs instead have replaced. Uh, but, but the financial is, it’s just, uh, yeah.

Basically a no brainer, right?

Allen Hall: Oh yeah. The financials make total sense. And this is where we’re gonna get to the solution from WE four C, which is called Refit, which is a, a bushing upgrade and the workings together of two separate companies. So we have WE four C, which is, uh, based in the Netherlands of course, and then we.

We have Sorin and CNC onsite, which is based in Denmark, so they’re really relatively close to one another, and both companies are powerhouses in wind and, and fixing wind and making it more efficient and getting our turbines optimized for long-term duration, which. What we in the states have not been doing, but we’re, that’s gonna rapidly change in the next couple of months.

Uh, so this refit solution does make a lot of sense to me just because the demand is [00:13:00] gonna be there and we need to have some way of doing this. And, uh, this is what I want to talk to both of you about, because understanding how to replace these bushings, it, it seems at first, like it’s an impossible task.

You brought two powerhouses together to solve this problem. You wanna discuss how the two companies work together, we foresee and CNC onsite, and how this, uh, repair rework is accomplished.

Soren Kellenberger: I think if we, if we take it back a step, um, we at CNC or uh, onsite was originally involved in a plate repair project.

Uh. Before, actually before the, the Corona uh, uh, situation. Uh, so we had worked on a machine and made some, uh, tests in, in our workshop on this repair, drilling out bushings. Um, then Corona came and the project was stopped and never restarted again. So about four years, pretty much to the, [00:14:00] to the date because it was at the Huon wind, which is now coming up again in, in one and a half week.

Um, we were in, we met, uh, we foresee, uh, so we had this drilling technology sitting there, and I walked around and I saw these, uh, nice, uh, bushings and, and, uh, a couple of nice gentlemen standing there. So I approached, uh, IDO and, and Arnold and said, uh, Hey guys, this, uh, this, this looks nice. What is it? And, uh, we started talking about that.

Uh, they actually had the. Pushing technology ready. They needed someone who could drill out the old ones. And yeah, we had the technology to drill out the old ones and needed someone who could insert those replacement pushing. So it was actually, um, a very, a very good fit. And then the whole corporation just started off basically on trust.

I mean, we signed the NDA and stuff like that, but we just trusted each other and, and moved, uh, forward. And it took some time before getting to the first customer also. What you mentioned in the [00:15:00] beginning, right, Alan, that there’s, yeah, it looks nice, but has it been done before? It’s been, we’ve heard that question, uh, a lot of times.

Um, so it took some time before we got through all the testing and stuff like that, but, uh, now it’s up and running and, uh, works really well.

Edo Kuipers: At the third point, the customer said to us, if you can show a test with this number of cycles and fatigue, it was something like a certain level and a 1 million cycles test.

If you can show that to me, then we will sign the contract. So we sent two coupons, you one to a, to a Dutch Institute, independent, one to a German Institute who was doing um, um, coupon testings. And we said, okay, run it. Run them off both for 1 million cycles. And they had, they had the same result. So, and both, both have reached the 1 million cycles.

So we said to the customers, we did not provide one component with 1 million cycles, but two for you to, to make sure. And also at different test institute. [00:16:00] And then they signed the contract and at all went. Very fast after that.

Allen Hall: Well, yeah, if as soon as you can show the technology works in the laboratory, the next step is to get it deployed.

So the, the, the process works sort of like this. And, and stop me if I’m too far off because I’ve had to explain to me very slowly. Ada has done this very carefully. So let’s see if I can, uh, explain it to the teacher. I’m gonna take, I’m gonna remove the blade off. I’m gonna bring the blade down, and they’re gonna call Soren’s people at CNC onsite.

And they’re going to actually. Have tooling this amazing tooling to drill out this old bushing and make it such that this ados wonderful refit solution can slide into this new drilled spot that’s been perfectly honed. And this new bushing goes in and there’s a bunch of epoxies added behind it to hold that new bushing in place.

And then once that’s done, I move to the next one. And because the system is set up with CNC onsite to have [00:17:00] to go ahead and, and drill out multiple bushings, uh, very quickly, this process, once the blade is down, is actually very quick. So you’re talking about maybe a couple of days total to repair a blade that otherwise would be

Edo Kuipers: discarded.

This is, I’m very happy with this at the moment. And this is also with thanks to the um, uh, to the criteria, to the cap measurements of up tower we are doing. So this is the first step we have to do, of course. But thanks to that we only need a limited amount of bushing. So we are doing, let’s say like 24 to 30 bushings are being drilled out.

This takes us. 24 hours, more or less, we are doing it. We could do it in three shifts, so then it’s one day, but we are not doing it in one sh one shift. They, they are working neatly, they are working accurate and with the same team. And so they are doing three days. After these three days, they are, they are done with the drilling.

Um, then we need to start the [00:18:00] preparations, so the new bushings needs to be implemented. That will take us, let’s say like eight hours of preparations, because everything needs to be far tight and that that is essential for our solution. It needs to be low, far level, so all the air out. And then after this, that takes about eight hours, and after that we have the infusion day.

That’s a really exciting day always, because once. The resin is running. We can’t stop it anymore. Right? So this, this day is also, let’s say eight hours. So, and then we have some finishing because it would be nice if we are hoisting up the blade again. A tower that the, that the root is, is flat. Yeah. All the resin pieces are off.

And we may have to make sure that, uh, that all the, all the bushings are aligned well for the proper load distributions. Um, another, let’s say another few hours, maybe eight hours. So then we are 48 hours, 50 hours of the whole process working with three or four people. That’s it.

Allen Hall: [00:19:00] Wow. And does it take anybody special to be on site from like the CNC onsite?

You know, c NNC onsite makes these great machines that are highly accurate. Uh, Soren, do you need to have specialized people on site or are you training people that are local to do this work?

Soren Kellenberger: We are training local people. So that is, that is part of, of the whole solution that, that we do a technology transfer.

So it’s, people are trained with this specific project. We started by having the, the team in Europe, uh, so they had some, some training days with, uh, IDO and the guys in the Netherlands on the, uh, whole mounting and infusion technology. And then they came to our workshop and trained in operating the drilling machine.

Afterwards. Then for the startup, we send the technicians, uh, to, to the customer, um, who supported for a couple of weeks, and then we went back. Uh, and then we are basically, uh, always ready to support. But on teams or whatever, we can set up a link and, and [00:20:00] a system if needed. They are running with it, uh, very well.

So it’s, it’s been very limited what we’ve had to do. Uh, we get some feedback on the drilling process so we can optimize some parameters and, and step by step, uh, improve the process time. We’ve done some optimizations to the drills, uh, to make them last longer and, and do. Those, uh, things more efficiently, but they are basically running on their own

Joel Saxum: guys.

I think that’s something to make sure that we don’t breeze over here as well. Is the local content part of your solution. So you’ve done all the expert engineering, uh, figuring out the processes, of course, all the, the precision machining equipment from Soren’s team as well, but you can export it to different locales and train up the local staff and get them moving.

So places like it’s, it’s expensive. It’s difficult to get people into South Asia. It’s expensive, it’s difficult to get people into South America, to Australia, to, to anywhere really. You’re gonna export this. However, what you’re also doing is bringing local jobs, local [00:21:00] work, local revenue to the local teams.

And I know that that makes a lot of, a lot of people happy. Um, including, I know, like we’re, we’re sitting in the States, right? There’s a lot of ISPs over here, hopefully listening to this. They’re saying like, Ooh, we’d like to be the people that implement this solution over in the States. Let’s get ahold of these guys.

Uh, so kudos to you on that as well.

Edo Kuipers: Yes. The idea is indeed to have, um, on different regions in the world, uh, different, uh, repair hubs so that we can always work with the same teams, with the, with the, with the same people. So we train them, educate them, and then of course, from the Netherlands and of course from Denmark, we still, we will always support them, but it can also be done by a teams or a conference calling.

Allen Hall: And let’s talk about the Southeast Asia. Project you just completed successfully and uh, it looked fantastic. That was the first major project that you’ve tried this technology on. Besides everything in a laboratory, kind of one off things, but now you’re going to scale. This is a big step. [00:22:00] How did it go?

How did that process start? What did it look like afterwards?

Edo Kuipers: Um, how did it start? Uh, by doing it, I mean, sir and his team went on site, of course, and we encountered difficulties, of course, first time with drilling. And, um, that had multiple reasons. So the guys, uh, even the, the, the, the colleague of Sir went, went back to Denmark.

He changed, he fixed something on a drill, had sent a new type of drill and it ran perfectly. So from there, from that point, the drilling was no problem anymore. Then after we created the holes together, um, of course we have to do the infusion. And going from going from infusing like five bushings in a row, we had to go to 30 in a row.

And that was in the beginning, quite challenging. Um, to have, so it was a little bit like keep your fingers crossed if everything is going fine, but it works somehow. Um, it works [00:23:00] and, and all the resin came out. So we are quite happy with that. Uh, of course there are some fine tuning in the processing in the quality.

Uh, but that’s, that’s important for us is, is, is to keep, you need to keep following the. The quality processes. If you, if you strictly follow the quality processes, make sure it’s vacuum tight, make sure that you work in sections, so don’t open your resin folds all at the same time, one by one correctly.

And then just monitor and make sure that, of course, refresh your resin from time to time. Because that’s a pot life thing, and it takes, let’s say like maybe two hours before the whole resident is going through the bushing and also in the depth direction that is being impregnated well. Um, so you have to make sure that your pot life is under control.

And also we work with a tent, which is like 100 square meters, which is air conditioned, and, and that all contributes to a, [00:24:00] a controlled process. And yeah, that was very scary for the first time. I must admit that if you do second time. You get more relaxed. And the third time, it’s like driving a car the first time.

Oh, this, I need to pay attention to the gear. In the, in, in Europe, we have gears and, um, on the car and um, we, we need to, we need to drive and look around us and the navigation system. Um, so, and at a certain point it’s all going automatically. Right. How many blade did you repair in Southeast Asia? 18. Now we are working the, the, the sixth set.

Set number six has just completed, and I know this every week, I have contact, uh, with, with, with, with. With. With one guy there. It’s, it’s, we know each other good. So he, he gives us the feedback and it costs me every week. It costs me half an hour, not more.

Joel Saxum: It’s usually not one blade. It’s usually the whole step has an issue, correct?

Edo Kuipers: Yes and no. Um, what they do now at the moment, um, they, they, [00:25:00] they, they, they see that one, one blade has, um, uh, a problem. So they, they, they already. Start thinking ahead by taking all three blades down. So even if, if one or two blades within the set does not have the variable capping, they know in half a year it will happen.

That’s the experience they already have. And the the, there is the certain. They have a certain agreement here with the crane. The crane is coming, let’s say they use a crane every month for a fixed period. So they say, let’s hoist the complete set down. Then we have three weeks to repair, and in the fourth week we will hoist it out again.

Joel Saxum: Yeah. And the, and the technicians on site, once they’re trained up, uh, they’re loving it because whether it’s in the hot in South, south Asia, or if you’re doing this in the cold, you’re working in a tank. So if they got an extra couple blades to work on as a blade technician. I’m all for it. I’m all for it.

A little bit more time in the AC or in the heat and nice kind, controlled facility. It’s,

Soren Kellenberger: uh, I think the, the guys will like that a lot in the [00:26:00] field. One of the benefits you, you get also is, as Ido mentioned in, in the beginning, if you catch it early, you have fewer, uh. Bushings to repair. So, uh, you, if you catch it or, or repair it while you have your blades down already, you can repair fewer bushings.

And in terms of process time, it’s also a little bit faster. That’s also what we learned to, uh, to drill out the bushings when they are not. Too loose. Um, the more loose they get, the more risk you have of vibrations when you start drilling and that can potentially damage your drills. Uh, um, and it, it just adds to the process time.

So. There are a lot of benefits by catching these, uh, things early and getting the process, uh, completed at an earlier damage stage.

Allen Hall: Now you’ve completed your first big project. What’s next? It sounds like there’s a lot of opportunity worldwide to do this refit process.

Edo Kuipers: Yeah, we, the, the, the first, the first [00:27:00] team is the, is our number one team.

You can see it also here on the, on the breast. And, um, we are now looking basically a number two team, which is, is as excellent as the number one team. Um, so yeah, it’s not only that, um, we have to do, I mean. If you would like to have this, this technology implemented, um, it’s, it’s going Pfizer versa. So, um, very, very important is that we are working together with teams, service teams, which 100% trust each other.

That’s where it starts already. Um, and they are fixed. So if, if you have fixed teams, you teach them and they, they, they, they, they, they learn by experience and that that’s how it should be. Um, so yeah. The next step is, is we are talking with. Next step is we are talking with different, uh, potential, um, service companies, um, worldwide.

So we are talking within America with, with one or two, um, potential, um, good guys, good [00:28:00] groups. Um, the same in, in India, for example, and the same in, in, in South America. That’s, that’s our aim to have, let’s say in, in South America. Two service companies, uh, in, in, in India, two or three, uh, um, in India, in America, one, two, or three or whatever.

So that’s, we are now discussing with these parties, and it’s not only one direction, okay? We want to sell it to you. Now, it’s also the other direction. Are you capable? How do we want to work with 24 hour cycle? Do you have a place where we can install everything? So that’s our next step to explore.

Allen Hall: Yeah.

And Sorin, you have to start making more machines. I hope so.

Soren Kellenberger: No, it’s, it’s definitely, we’ve, we’ve seen a lot of interest and, and we’ve also had numerous contacts over the years. But again, it’s been back to this, have this been done before and. It sort of, no one wanted maybe to be the first, but now the first commercial project is, is out there.

It’s, it’s still [00:29:00] ongoing. And, and once this is completed, we will have installed more than a thousand bushings. Uh, so, so I think it’s, it’s a decent. Proof of concept. It’s a, it’s a real case. It’s not just one blade or one set. It’s, it’s actually a, a, a larger farm that, where, that we have, will have repaired once, uh, this project is, is, uh, 100% completed.

So it’s, it’s going really well. Uh, and I think that of course they will, once the potential customers see that, that this project is now open and running, it will move forward with, uh, contracts for, for other projects. But who is gonna be the first is still, uh, difficult to say, but, uh, I’m pretty sure that, that there will be more.

Edo Kuipers: Yeah. We would also quite be keen on getting on the table with the big OEMs because there are many parks which have still some kind of, uh, service contract, eh, uh, full service agreement or whatever. So even if park owners, many time [00:30:00] park owners say to us, Hey, we would like to have your technology implemented because that sounds to be the most robust one.

Um, but you need to convince the, the, the, the, the Big O oms. Um, and sometimes that is, that is, that is a difficult part because you need to go through, through these different steps with a lot of decision makers, uh, in these organizations. And that takes time. So request is, are on these big, OMS is to define clear criteria for us.

How, what should be, what should we fulfill? And if we fulfill this. Basically, do we then have a deal with each other? Because in the end, for us, we need to help those park owners because they are in the end, eh, um, they have the, they are feeling the pain on, on, on, on this kind of, um, yeah, sometimes hidden problems.

Allen Hall: Well, if you’re an OEM or an operator, where do you start this process? Who do you call first? Do you call we foresee or do you call CNC onsite or does it matter?

Soren Kellenberger: Call either of us and, uh, we [00:31:00] will be, make sure to, uh, involve the other parts. So that’s where the trust and cooperation comes into play. Uh, yeah, just reach out and, uh, we will, we will.

Set up joint meetings.

Allen Hall: The website for CNC onsite is CNC onsite.dk because they’re in Denmark. And the website for WE four C is we the number four, letter C, letter e.eu. And either one of those addresses will get you to the information you need about the refit and. Uh, get you started because as we’ve seen the United States, a lot of things are changing and worldwide.

We need to keep these turbines up and running longer. The way to do that is to put a little bit of money into them now instead of spending a whole bunch of money later. This is why we love we four C and C and C onsite because they’re saving operators, literally millions of dollars. So. You know, and Soren, thank you so much for being on the podcast.

We, we love having you. And as you finish up the Southeast Asia project, you gotta come back on after you [00:32:00] finish those thousand bushings and give us an update. Absolutely. We’ll be happy to.

Edo Kuipers: Yes, thanks a lot. We are fully happy to.

https://weatherguardwind.com/refit-blade-root-repair/

Weather Guard Lightning Tech

Proactive Inspections – How CICNDT Is Changing Blade Inspections

Wind turbine operators are entering a critical new era: longer turbine lifespans, aging assets, and tighter repowering timelines driven by policy shifts like the Inflation Reduction Act. In this evolving landscape, blade reliability is paramount — and Jeremy Heinks, founder of CICNDT, is on a mission to change how the industry approaches it.

In a recent episode of the Uptime podcast, Heinks spoke candidly about the current gaps in non-destructive testing (NDT) in the wind sector and how CICNDT is addressing them.

What Operators Are Finding – and Missing

Operators who have used CICNDT’s services are starting to understand the power of pre-installation blade inspections. One customer who brought in CICNDT for a sample check of brand-new blades discovered unexpected problems: “The sample showed that they have an issue with these brand-new blades,” he said.

Unfortunately, with the push to deploy stored or newly manufactured blades more than ever, quality issues remain a concern. Heinks and the CICNDT team have noticed an uptick in problems in recent months.

“The quality is definitely down,” he said.

NDT at this stage is not just convenient, it can catch issues before they turn into costly downtime.

When blade inspections show damage that occurred in the factory due to manufacturing issues, or in transport, it’s bad news, but good timing. The best time to fix the blade (and address warranty issues) is prior to installation.

“It is much easier for us to get the technology and the personnel to a blade that’s on the ground, ” Heinks said. “It’s cheaper, it’s quicker… It always comes down to access.”

Legacy Blades, Mystery History

The concern about hidden problems extends to stored blades, many of which have unknown histories. In one case, blades had been stored in a location that had flooded years prior.

“We get out there, we’re scanning laminates… and it just [gave] terrible signal,” Heinks said. Only after researching the site’s history did they learn about the submersion event. “Those are things you’ve got to look at, too.”

Even weather events like high winds can compromise blades on the ground: “They’ll start fluttering in ways they’re not designed to,” Heinks said. “NDT is the only way you’re going to figure out if something is really wrong with them.”

A Modern Toolbox for Deep Inspection

CICNDT’s new lab in Ogden, Utah is outfitted with high-end inspection capabilities rarely seen in the wind industry, yet those tools are commonly used in aviation and defense. The company’s mission is to deliver focused, practical, robust Non-destructive Testing Solutions that address the needs of clients in Aerospace, including the Space Industry, and Renewable Energy.

“We’ve got… robotic CT, laser ultrasound, thermography,” he said, explaining that those technologies allow 3D inspection of components without destruction. “We can scan it and get a 3D image… without having to (enlarge or) damage the defect,” Heinks said.

The approach gives operators unprecedented clarity about issues like bonding flaws, root defects, or main spar cracks, especially in carbon fiber designs.

Blade Bolts: A Hidden Failure Point

Cracked blade bolts is another emerging issue that Heinks noted, and it’s another that CICNDT is well-equipped to address.

“We can definitely do a UT (ultrasonic) blade inspection… Whether it’s installed or not installed on the bolts,” Heinks said. He also mentioned development of a bolt monitoring system using sensors to track fatigue over time.

Critically, this type of proactive check could be performed quickly onsite.

Practical Inspection Strategies, Cost-effective Maintenance

One recurring theme in the interview was the need for practical expertise, and not just using technology for its own sake. “A lot of really cool robotics [are] coming out… [but] they don’t have the experience needed… and therefore, they can miss the mark,” Heinks said.

The goal should be “a practical approach to the inspection with automation.”

CICNDT also offers to train operators to perform “operator-level inspections” so issues can be flagged quickly before calling in a Level II or III technician.

Future-Proofing Wind Assets

With the U.S. wind fleet aging and uncertain repowering timelines, proactive inspections are more important than ever.

“We have a throwaway attitude when it comes to blades,” Heinks said, “but inspection and preventive maintenance is the way to go.”

He pointed to the example of wind farms in Australia and on remote islands, where turbines are expected to run for 30 years or more.

The key to longevity, according to Heinks? It’s plain common sense.

“Budget for more inspection on these things that we know will go bad over time.”

Heinks added that after repairs are made is also an important, and often-overlooked, line-item.

“Post inspection on repairs is always a good idea… It’s commonplace in aviation.”

The Bottom Line: NDT = More Uptime

Wind turbine operations managers should rethink inspection practices before damage becomes downtime. With tools like robotic CT, laser ultrasound, and ultrasonic bolt testing, CICNDT brings aviation-grade diagnostics to wind, and offers a path to asset longevity.

“Sometimes (operators) have had turbines offline for weeks, if not months, because they have an issue they don’t know they can do anything about,” Heinks said. NDT can ‘see’ the problem so a fix can be made – and the equipment can get back in service.

More Uptime is always the goal!

To reach CICNDT:

Call (801) 436-6512 or email info@cicndt.com

Connect on LinkedIn

Web: https://www.cicndt.com/

Listen to the interview Apple Podcasts or on Spotify

https://weatherguardwind.com/inspections-cicndt/

Weather Guard Lightning Tech

Motordoc Reveals the True Story of Spain’s Power Crisis

Howard Penrose, President of Motordoc LLC, returns to discuss the complexities of modern electrical grids. The conversation covers the inaccuracies surrounding the Iberian Peninsula blackout, the intricate functions of voltage and frequency control, and systemic issues in grid management. Penrose explains how renewable energy sources like wind and solar, alongside energy storage, play crucial roles in stabilizing the grid.

Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!

Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining Light on Wind. Energy’s brightest innovators. This is the Progress Powering tomorrow.

Howard, welcome back to the show. How are you doing? It’s been a bit, a lot has happened since we last spoke. I, I wanna speak about the Iberian Peninsula problem and the blackout that happened in April. Because there’s been a number of inaccuracies about that situation, and you’re actively involved in the groups that look into these situations and try to understand what the root cause was.

That the, the, the Iberian situation is a little complicated. The CNN knowledge, the Fox News knowledge is that solar was the cause of a problem. Yeah, that is far from the truth. You wanna explain kind of [00:01:00] what this, how it progressed over time? It started around noontime Spain and they had a couple of wobbles there.

You want to kick it off?

Howard Penrose: Yeah. First, first my comment is, I like how journalists become experts in, in literally everything, um, from 30 seconds to 30 seconds, right. Basically. The problem had been going on for a little while and, and the grided there had been operating much like it had been for a little while.

And, uh, you know, for years actually, uh, even with the application of alternative energy, we’ll, we’ll call it alternative energy for this, um, you know, so that we don’t bring in that political end of calling it one thing or the other. Alternative energy is what we called it in the 1990s. So, um, in any case.

Uh, they had a number of issues with voltage control, meaning large loads would suddenly drop off and then the voltage would float up [00:02:00] and then, uh, and then they would have to do something to bring it under control. They’re at 50 hertz, so their voltage is 400 kv. That’s their primary grid voltage. They have an alarm trip voltage, meaning an emergency trip voltage, where they strip the line at 435 kv.

So, um, what happened now, the final event happened in 27 seconds, but leading up to that, they had an event where they had voltage float up. And they were bringing that under control. And then down in the southern part of Spain, and we don’t have anything set up like this here in the states, luckily they had all, uh, a whole group of, um, solar uh, plants as well as a gas turbine plant feeding a single distribution transformer.

And the, uh, auto taps on that failed on the low voltage side on step up. So it basically dropped out. So, uh, something like, I, I’m trying to remember off the top of my, my head, [00:03:00] but it was either 300 or 800 megawatts just offline now. It was a lightly loaded day in Spain ’cause it was a beautiful day outside.

Uh, so that makes matters worse. It makes it unstable and really easy for voltage to flow up where people start to think that that, uh, alternative energy was a fault was because we were at 40%. Of the power supply was solar as the morning progressed, so it had climbed up to about that there was a good percentage of wind.

Um, but they had a nuclear power power plant online and several others providing synchronous protection for any type of inertia. They lost one of those plants. The voltage floated up, uh, to um, about 415 to 420 kv. Yeah. Then there was a whole bunch of control issues. So the operators started switching lines.

There was a connection to France. They, they started seeing some oscillations because they were [00:04:00] oscillating against, uh, Europe. And, um, so they switched lines and that caused the voltage to float up again. And they had no, no, none of the equipment. Whether it was solar, wind, or even the synchronous power was set to do, uh, var control, meaning set to do voltage control to bring the voltage back down.

It was all set up for frequency control, meaning that they wanted to control against it, not the, not the alternative energy. Those were set so that they did a straight, what’s called power factor, so they were set to just put out. Exactly what they were supposed to put out. They were not there, they were not set to correct anything, even though they could have been.

And, um, so, uh, at, at about 420, uh, thousand volts, other plants started tripping offline. And as it went up further, even the nuclear plant tripped offline. And then France dropped [00:05:00] offline at about the same time, all across the 27 second period.

Allen Hall: Right. Okay. So this is a unique problem and I think the Iberian Peninsula really raises this issue on a number of levels for the general consumer out in the world.

The grid is actually pretty complicated, but there’s really two things you really want to control there. Voltage, you have to control frequency, you have to control. If you control those two. Pretty much everything else will work the way it’s intended. If either one of those gets outta whack, there’s safety protocols that go into place to protect the equipment, but there’s also other piece of equipment that are trying to bring it into regulation.

When the regulation doesn’t work the way it’s supposed to, yes, you can get the voltage outta whack. You can get the frequency to go outta spec, and then clunk, clunk, clunk. Everything starts to disconnect. Like what happened in Spain. My first question about that is it’s a complicated system and there’s a lot of pieces [00:06:00] connected to it.

Who is checking in the US or in Europe or anywhere else who’s checking that? Those control settings are in the right place. They were actually set per the requirements. Spain was talking about in some of their publications that there, the settings weren’t set right. They were, we were, they were not properly set per code.

Who’s checking that?

Howard Penrose: So, so grid code here is set by FIR and nerc. And it sounds like a curse word, a set of curse words, but FERC is the federal side. NERC is actually private. Um, so they set, they set the rules for safety, for power, gener, you, you name it. So, um, and they set the code. Now as an operator, you’re supposed to be, you know, the power generation side.

They still even here, have to do things to meet code. Okay. Is there anybody checking it? No. Uh, the, it’s a site responsibility. Each area, um, goes out and they [00:07:00] forecast expectations. Um, and then, and then of course, within that expectation, you have a lot of companies and cities municipal that will all bid on how much energy they’re gonna consume, right?

Uh, you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So, so everybody agrees to it. And then, and then, um, the operators have to determine the reliability. And the availability of energy based upon certain conditions within that grit. Like what, what plants are gonna be, uh, in maintenance and everything else. And, and that’s important because the actual generation companies can’t talk to each other.

They’re not allowed. Okay. Otherwise, it could be considered collusion. So our own laws fight against us.

Allen Hall: The Iberian situation leads into some discussions. What happens in America, because we’re in America and there have been a number of brownouts blackouts, uh, ERCOT has have a couple of situations where they’ve had sort of regional [00:08:00] disconnects of, or larger scale, like a cascading.

Effect, uh, due to, um, control systems that are not happy with one another. So one system knocks out another and then it, everybody goes into safe mode and there’s just this sort of cascading, disconnected that happens. Those events are a little scary to me, just with a, it feels like we’re not talking to one another, and what you’re saying is we’re intentionally not talking to one another because we can’t.

It talk one power producer to another power producer.

Howard Penrose: That’s what the operator’s for. So the, the grid operator is there to take all that information in. Most of it’s run via software. What’s been interesting is, say Ercot, because of the event that happened in 2021. What, uh, happened was everybody went back and looked at it and said, how can we fix it?

It turns out that alternative energy was the way to stiffen the power system. So, um, they’ve now made adjustments to how the, [00:09:00] to, to take more advantage of the capabilities of wind and solar that they didn’t have before, as well as all the new storage systems, uh, including, you know, course battery, which is the, the big buzzword now.

Right? Bess? Um. So battery storage in order to stiffen up the system. A year ago, there was a 16% possibility of a blackout throughout Oliver Ercot. This year it was 1%, even though we have a higher demand this year, and it had nothing to do with traditional systems that had to do with wind, solar, and energy storage, big discussion data centers, right?

As a matter of fact. We already decided at this meeting, we’re not gonna talk about wind and wind storage, wind, uh, solar and energy storage. Next year, PPES, now it’s gonna be power Engineering Society, by the way, the ones who actually do that stuff, right? Uh, it’s gonna be all about data centers because a data center is the most [00:10:00] dangerous thing on the grid.

So remember I mentioned, uh, you know, but somewhere between 300 and 800 megawatts dropped offline and it caused an entire country to lose power. You have to remember, these things are 500 megawatt to 1.5 gigawatts, which is by the way, more than a DeLorean and a data center doesn’t, if it trips, it doesn’t just gradually come down.

It means you lose 500 to 1.5. Um, yep. Like that. Gone.

Allen Hall: Well, I, I think as a, most people are casual users of the electricity grid. They don’t realize how much is planning is done ahead of time. So there are 24 hour forecast and actually year long forecast. You’re looking a year ahead in some cases of what the energy requirements are going to be.

The, the daily forecast for tomorrow are, are the big ones. So you need to know how many generators to have ready and who’s actually gonna be there and they gotta commit, and all these different things have to happen. [00:11:00] That is a really critical feature of the grid. You would think that most, I think most people would assume that there’s just a bunch of coal fire generation.

There’s a number of, uh, gas plants that are up and running. They’re always spending 24 hours a day, and then maybe a little bit of wind, a little bit of solars thrown in there. But for the vast majority of it, that is not the case at all. Like, it’s complicated and, and the, as you have mentioned. It’s planned.

It’s, it’s, it’s planned to some crazy detail and putting something on the, on the system that is megawatt size, okay? Not so bad. Gigawatt size is a problem. Is a problem ’cause that system is not designed to handle that. And yet we’re, we’re going into this in the next year or two or in kind of now honestly, where we’re putting, gonna put these big data center loads on this old system, which is looking 24 hours ahead.

But as you pointed out, data centers can be on, data centers can be off the grid. Can’t [00:12:00] manage that unless there’s something else that can react as fast as the data center does though, there’s only two things that I, well, three. Solar, wind and battery are the only things that can react at that electronic speed of which a AI data center is operating at.

Howard Penrose: Yep. They have electronic controls.

Allen Hall: Right. A, a gas fire turbine can’t do that.

Howard Penrose: Yeah. You have to counter the electronics with electronics and we actually need to have enough of it to counter what’ll happen, you know, like data centers are supposed to be able to island. Meaning island means they get cut off from the grid and they can run on their own.

And, and usually that means they have generation behind the meter, which for those who are watching, you don’t know what that means. That means that you know you have a meter at, say your house, right? So you, that’s what, that’s what the utility looks at to decide how much you’re gonna pay. If you have a generator at your house that is behind that meter, you pay for the fuel for that.

And [00:13:00] if you’re really lucky, you’ve negotiated something so you can put power back through your meter and reduce the amount of power you pay. Right. So the, that meter is the deciding point. It’s a point of common connection between, you know, the grid or that, in this case we’re talking about the local distribution part of the grid versus the grid, which is all those gigantic power lines that are going everywhere that can get as high as.

I think we’re at 750 kilovolts now, uh, for some of them. And we’re talking about going to over a million to reduce the copper, the amount of copper needed, so, uh, or whatever material we’re gonna use at that voltage.

Allen Hall: So the way that ai, Dana setters are, uh, adding to the system in terms of load, the only way to counter that from a gas turbine standpoint or a coal standpoint, or even a nuclear standpoint for that matter, is you have to have.

These systems running 24 7 [00:14:00] just in case Elon decides to turn on the switch, you would have to be burning gas pretty much all the time. ’cause to get that rotating mass in those gas turbines to be able to do that, that is crazy expensive to do. That’s why we deregulated the 1990s. Exactly. So the, the issue gets down to, if we’re gonna have grid stability, you actually need.

Wind, solar and batteries to respond to those instantaneous changes that occur on a system that’s has gigawatt loads plugged into it randomly. And, and second. By the time, if you wanted to make a, a gas turbine world, like it sounds like the administration does at the minute. Those gas tournaments are burning fuel all the time.

Expensive fuel all the time. Your electricity rates to do that. If you have an AI dentist sitter in your area, you’re gonna be paying through the nose to keep that thing running just because, just so that Elon or [00:15:00] Mark Zuckerberg can do their thing. Actually,

Howard Penrose: it’s worse than that if you have a data center in your operating area.

Okay. Which means a lot of states, right? Water and wastewater for the entire nation takes up less than 2% of the energy consumption. Electrical energy consumption, okay? Electric power, just to give you an idea. So flushing your toilet, drinking your water, getting your water bottle, you know, that kind of thing.

All of that stuff, all of that energy is 2%. We are right now at over 8%. For, for data centers by 2030, we’re supposed to be at 15%. By 2040, we’re supposed to be at 25% of all electricity produced. The utilities, all of the grid scale and everything else, the fastest they’ve ever had to build anything other than some of the initial stuff is 2% a year, two to 5% a year.

Okay. Is what they’re used to adding to the grid. Adding power generation. In order to meet the demand, [00:16:00] they have to double present conditions every other year. That’s 50 to a hundred percent growth per year, which nobody globally has ever done. We don’t have the materials, we don’t have the equipment, we don’t have the people, so we don’t have the skillset anymore.

What does an

Allen Hall: efficient grid look like going forward? Howard? And with the constraints. With the constraints, that there’s gonna be limitations on the growth of transmission with the constraint that the current administration is, I’ll say anti wind, anti-solar, or they’re not just level playing field, they’re like actively trying to damage it.

What does the grid look like then?

Howard Penrose: That’s the big challenge. Nobody’s quite aware how we’re going to do it. Um. That’s, that’s all of the conversation now. What does it look like? And the direction [00:17:00] has been changed from a political standpoint so much. It’s like, it’s like going to a company and saying, we’re going to change the direction of the company to 180 degrees.

We’re, we’re no longer gonna build cars anymore. We’re now gonna build, um, stuffed animals.

Allen Hall: I, I think in the electrical, uh, power industry forever. Uh, and I’ve been around a lot of engineers that were involved in the early phases of that, and I used to work next to one of the places where GE built Transformers forever.

So there’s every day around power people. It was a scientific, technical effort driven to provide society a better living. That’s where. All the focus was on the engineering and the technical community and the scientific community. That’s where they were going. They, they made money at it. Yes, they did. If they produce a good product, they would make money at it.

But if you look at [00:18:00] the rigor in which the engineering was produced, it’s a very high standard, very high standard IEE articles written in the 1920s and thirties, even in the seventies and the eighties, and through the nineties, I’d say pretty much. Solid stuff. Not a lot of crazy stuff, not a lot of politics.

Hard. You just wouldn’t see it. You can, I’ve read thousands of papers in my lifetime you wouldn’t see it. I have seen a more recent shift because politics is electrical distribution at the minute. It’s somehow, it, it’s morphed into this other thing, which is, uh, I would say more like oil and gas was in the 1960s and seventies and, and earlier too, where it was a lot of politicians and a lot of money changing hands.

The electrical generation world was not, never really in that, at that level. And it feels like we’re being, uh, uh, uh, we’re taking on, uh, methods and policies and behaviors of other industries, and that’s not gonna be healthy for [00:19:00] that electricity grid.

Howard Penrose: No, no. I, I, the, the stuff that has to happen is big, scary, long-term stuff.

Um, and, and it’s bl and, and solutions are being developed. And, and don’t get me wrong, not everything is, is horribly bad when, when they do what they’re doing, uh, we’ve seen some great innovations coming out, but they’re not going anywhere because as soon as they come out, we change direction. You know, we we’re trying to do something that takes decades based upon the political wins, which are every other week.

You know, think, think about a topic that happened two weeks ago and are they talking about it now? No. And, and it’s just like the power generation stuff. Uh, as soon as they need a distraction again, then you’ll hear something from either side, you know, oh, we need to get rid of this. We need to add, you know, we need to, you know, so the war is, is, you know, politicians and people [00:20:00]without the background to make these decisions when politics decides to get involved.

In infrastructure to the, to, to the micromanaging detail. That’s the problem is they’re micromanaging and, uh, I, I blame 2020 for that. I really do. ’cause uh, prior to 2020 I’ve been calling on the hill ’cause I was the region for energy rep. So it’s a 10 Midwestern states in 1993 through 1995, I, I, I was part of the discussion related to deregulation.

I was not a fan of it for electrical power because we had nowhere to store anything. So it was like we need to, we need time to deal with how it’s going to occur because a large power generation we have is not designed to do what we’re about to make it do, which is turn off, turn off, vary and load. Used to have a big generator, and then you had what was called spinning reserve.

And the spinning reserve [00:21:00] was there so that when you needed sudden power or you needed to absorb something, all of the bumps and grinds that we’re trying to deal with now was sitting there and you were, you were just burning through fuel just to keep the thing turning. It wasn’t actually doing anything other than turning and, um, you know, we survived it.

But it ended up with what we warned about in 1994 for IEE, which was the. Blackout in the northeast in 2003, that was directly related. It was predicted that that would happen because we couldn’t get the relays and controls in place to, to deal with it. So, um, now we’re heading down the path and it’s a much more serious issue.

The, the demand growth is growing extremely fast. Um, we were trying to hold back demand in the 1990s during all of this through the Energy Policy Act in 92 and dealing with, um, demand side management [00:22:00] was the big word. Remember we were trying to do more energy efficiency, reduce demand so that we could use the power we had.

Now we’re saying you don’t wanna do the exact opposite. Use more and more power, um, use it efficiently, but use more and more of it. And, and that’s, that’s the big challenge.

Allen Hall: Howard, it’s been a pleasure to have you back on the podcast. I really enjoy these discussions about the grid, uh, and about keeping, uh, renewables up and running and all the things that motor dock and you are up to.

And, uh, if you haven’t followed Howard’s LinkedIn page, you need to do that. Howard Penrose. Also Howard, how do they get ahold of Motor Doc? How do they get a you Via the web?

Howard Penrose: Um, motor doc.com. That’s M-O-T-O-R-D-O c.com. Uh, or LinkedIn. Uh, you know, we, we watch both. Um, I, we’ve added a lot of people recently, so, um, [00:23:00] uh, so yeah, it’s easier to get ahold of myself or my people now.

So, um, that’s, that’s basically it. That’s probably the easiest way to do it.

Allen Hall: And if you want to see Howard Rant on YouTube, how do you see that? Where, how do, how do you find you on YouTube?

Howard Penrose: Oh, just look up Motor Doc on YouTube. Um, uh, you’ll see something having to do with Sasquatch, I’m sure. So, but, uh, yeah, yeah.

I, I, I don’t go by my own name on, on the internet. I go by, uh, usually motor dock. Which is a nickname I got in the Navy, by the way. It’s from a, from the, the captain of an aircraft carrier when I ran his motor repair shop. So, um, yeah, it’s, uh, it’s been a lot of fun again.

Allen Hall: Yes. And your, your video series, uh, caffeine and Chaos, there’s a ca, chaos and caffeine are brilliant.

Howard Penrose: The chaos and caffeine end. Yes. You’re going to hear about. The coffee I’m drinking. ’cause we, I actually have people now set. [00:24:00] I just got somebody ship me a set of coffee up from Guatemala. So that’s what we’ll be doing tomorrow. Um, and uh, you know, we, we, you know, I started with the veteran coffee and stuff like that, so of course.

But, um. So we’ll talk about that for, and then I’ll spend, I try to keep it down to 10 minutes, but knowing me, I like to talk. So sometimes I’ll hit 30 minutes, but I try to keep it at a conversational level on stuff that’s going on. So the, the next one I’ll do will probably be the sixth one, and that’s gonna be me kind of ranting about, um, you know, what we were just talking about.

I did do one on the Iberian Peninsula. It’s a little more. Um, you know, general public level stuff. So, um, you know, the, that it wasn’t this and here’s how and here’s why, and here’s what the timeline looks like, type thing. Uh, which I did, I think along with, um, um, [00:25:00] aerial resupply coffee. Which was, uh, was good stuff.

Don’t mean to sell him on here, but he, he’s a lot of fun to follow on, on, uh, on LinkedIn as well. Well, thanks Howard so

Allen Hall: much. We enjoy

Howard Penrose: having you and we will talk to you soon. Absolutely. Thank you very much.

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