Published

1 year ago

June 7, 2024

Alice Rush

Do you ever open your power bill and wonder what the heck happened? Did somebody leave the refrigerator open all day? Was there a cold snap or heat wave and you forgot about it? Is there a vampire load somewhere in your house?

Before you go blaming your housemates, googling recent freaky weather in your area, or crawling around your house unplugging appliances with digital clocks on them, you should know that it’s probably not you! Your electric bill is probably going up because someone (namely, your power company and its regulators) decided it should.

Understanding how investor-owned utilities (which serve the majority of customers in the Southeast) operate and how their actions impact customer bills is important to understanding why bills increase AND what ratepayers can do about it. This article will explain why bills keep going up in Georgia Power’s territory, and what we can do about it.

Rates are low, but bills are high

Utilities in the Southeast tend to have lower rates than those in other parts of the country, yet residents still have some of the highest bills. According to a 2023 report from Southern Energy Efficiency Alliance (SEEA), states in the Southeast have the highest bills of any other region in the contiguous United States, and the burden is higher in Black communities. This disparate impact on Black communities is due to a host of reasons, including Jim Crow era discrimination while the South was being electrified; red-lining; poor housing stock; and disinvestment in Black and low-income communities. Bills can also go up without increased rates, if companies add fees and tariffs that every customer has to pay each month regardless of how much energy they use.

Guaranteed Profits for Investor-Owned Utilities

In most utility markets (including the Southeast region), residents do not get to choose which electric utility they use; instead, residents have to use the utility that serves their area. Investor-owned utilities (IOUs) serve most urban areas and many towns in the Southeast; in rural areas and some small towns, residents may be served by an Electric Membership Cooperative (EMC) or municipal power company managed by the local government. There are some exceptions to the monopoly: sometimes new, large customers such as manufacturing plants can choose to buy electricity from different utilities operating in a state. Local governments enter into multi-decade contracts with utilities, and could theoretically change their energy provider when their municipal contracts end, though this is rare. Most of us, though, have only one option for our electric utility.

IOUs are in a unique position compared to other for-profit companies: In the 1920s, when electricity was beginning to be considered for the public, IOUs agreed to raise private funds to pay for power plants, transmission lines, and associated costs of electrifying portions of the U.S. In exchange for shouldering such a massive investment into a public good, companies would be guaranteed a customer base within a territory, and would be guaranteed the opportunity to make a profit. The guaranteed profit helped them to attract shareholders to pay for the initial infrastructure, and the guaranteed customer base created monopoly territories within which IOUs still operate today.

Unfortunately, the unique business model for IOUs does not incentivize renewable energy construction in the same way that it does for fossil fuel and nuclear plant construction, even though renewable energy often costs customers less to use and certainly helps avoid the devastating environmental consequences of burning fossil fuels. Renewable energy fuel costs are nonexistent once the equipment has been installed (wind, sun, and geothermal heat are free once turbines, panels, and systems are built) so customers could benefit from such investments (particularly in distributed renewables like rooftop solar, which can directly lower customer bills at the site). Also, distributed renewable energy and energy efficiency measures can be installed by building owners at low- or zero-cost for the utilities. These characteristics are advantages, but since IOU profits are driven by shareholder investments, it is unfavorable for utilities to invest or even allow individuals to invest in distributed renewables, because it undercuts their need to build big new centralized power plants (thereby dampening their future shareholder profit projections) and decreases the need for people to purchase power from big plants that are already built. This doesn’t mean that on-site solar can’t be a profitable business enterprise–it definitely can, and is currently driving job growth in Georgia–but the current model for IOUs is throttling that opportunity.

Utility Regulators Often Don’t Serve their Intended Purpose

When IOUs were being established in the early 20th century, lawmakers wanted to provide oversight in exchange for granting utilities their monopoly status. As monopolies, IOUs would not be subject to normal market competition, and decision-makers recognized that this could be a problem. Since customers could not choose to buy electricity from anyone else within the monopoly territory, public utility commissions (PUCs, or in Georgia, the Public Service Commission or PSC), were created to balance the utilities’ need for profit (without which they would have no motive to pay upfront to build the electric grid) with customers’ interests. In theory, this system would ensure that utility companies didn’t exploit this monopoly status and pass exorbitant costs on to customers. Unfortunately, over the years, many PUCs have tended to side with utility companies over the interests of customers. Instead of protecting customers from unnecessarily high bills, many PUCs allow utilities to invest with abandon, driving up share prices and guaranteed profits, while customers shoulder the increased costs resulting from those investments.

This dynamic is on display in Georgia right now.

Georgia Power, like other IOUs, heavily lobbies policy makers, and often opposes state and federal policy that would promote renewables or hold the company to a higher account than the PSC has been willing to do.
Georgia Power’s profits are already rising in 2024, as Plant Vogtle comes online and customers begin to pay for the additional cost. After charging customers, on average, $926 over 14 years to build Plant Vogtle, Georgia Power is now raising rates again starting in May, to cover the costs, and cost-overruns, of the new nuclear units.
In April, the PSC approved Georgia Power’s plan to build three new gas and oil combustion units, which will be recovered in rates for decades to come. In addition to increasing customer rates, this will also lead to an increased reliance on fossil gas, leaving customers exposed to fuel cost volatility. Fossil gas prices increase and decrease due to a host of factors. If (and when) the price of fossil gas rises, as it has in the past, the utility will be allowed to seek more fuel cost recovery in the form of increased customer bills.
Georgia Power often eschews investments in lower-cost energy efficiency and opposes policies that would promote on-site and distributed generation solar (such as net metering and community solar), which could save ratepayers money and limit the need for additional new fossil power plants.

Tariffs and Cost Recovery

IOUs are not allowed to earn a profit on the cost of fuel, meaning that they can’t charge customers above what they pay for coal, nuclear fuel, or natural gas (sunshine, the other popular “fuel” in Georgia, is free once solar panels have been installed). There is also a mechanism to stop them from having to lose profits if fuel costs rise. That means that when making decisions about which type of fuel to rely on, electric utilities don’t have to worry much about whether they are seeking to use an expensive or volatile fuel. If the cost of fuel (such as natural gas) rises, utilities can ask their PUCs to raise customer rates to pay for it.

Recovering costs sounds fine and reasonable, until you remember that the costs they are recovering are derived from utilities’ own decisions and planning, and that the method of recovery almost always involves raising customer bills. At times, Georgia Power does recover costs from its shareholders, but by and large, the Company shifts costs onto customers, and minimizes its own risks. Currently, Georgia Power is amidst six bill increases approved for the three year period 2023-2025.

Utilities can also use legislative action to make sure customers are on the hook for costly decisions. For instance, ever since a 2010 state legislature decision, Georgia Power customers have been paying a Nuclear Construction Cost Recovery tariff to build Plant Vogtle, a nuclear facility often described as a “boondoggle.” As construction for the Vogtle project dragged on for 14 years and costs ballooned, Southern Company has settled lawsuits with construction partners for being above cost and behind schedule, while forcing its customers to continue financing the project. With the completion of the Plant Vogtle expansion, the NCCR tariff will go away, but it will be replaced with a rate increase. The utility also charges customers to clean up its own coal ash, under an Environmental Compliance Cost Recovery.

What can we, the ratepayers, do about this?

Understand Your Utility Bill

Utility companies benefit when people think that high bills are inevitable or the result of their own behavior, because the utility company doesn’t have to be accountable to the public if the public doesn’t know who is responsible. If you are in Georgia Power’s service territory, compare your annual bills over time, and see whether increases are showing up on your bills. If your friends, family, neighbors, and coworkers mention their bills going up, let them know that it’s likely because the utility chose to raise rates, fees, and riders, and that the PSC allowed it to happen.

Get to Know Your Elected Utility Commissioners

Public Service Commissions are the primary regulators of investor-owned electric utility companies, and hold regulatory power over important decisions such as rate increases and utilities’ plans for how they will meet power demand in future years, known as integrated resource plans (IRPs). In Georgia, PSC members are elected by the public on a statewide ballot. Most current commissioners in Georgia have voted favorably for every rate increase Georgia Power has requested in recent years without pushing back.

Show Up at Public Service Commission Hearings

The Georgia PSC allows public comment at each biweekly Committee meeting and also at the beginning of rate cases and IRP hearings. Georgians often show up to speak out against new rate increases. This is a chance to make your voice heard and hold the PSC members and the utility accountable to the people they serve.

Reach Out to Your State Legislators

Georgia Public Service Commissioners have shown little appetite to oppose Georgia Power’s proposals to expand fossil fuels, efforts to dampen residential solar growth, and requests to raise customer bills repeatedly. But, state legislators have begun to question the utility’s power and propose new laws that could add transparency and promote solar expansion in the state. Legislators across party lines introduced bills in 2024 that could have enabled community solar, established a new counsel to attend more closely to consumers’ needs, and provided more transparency on the fuel mix that is producing electricity each month. None of these bills advanced this year, but they can be re-introduced in future sessions. Georgia Power customers who are facing bill increases can let their legislators know that they support clean energy, consumer protection, and transparency from their utility.

Take Advantage of Clean Energy Incentives

Transitioning our homes, buildings, and vehicles from burning gas and oil to running purely on electricity is one of the most impactful ways to combat climate change, and often brings lower costs when compared to gas appliances and internal combustion engines (ICE), even when utilities are raising electricity rates and adding fees. Charging electric vehicles (EVs) at night can actually increase utility efficiency and put downward pressure on rates for all customers on the grid, because this allows utilities to even out consumption over a 24 hour period–a welcome incentive for electric utilities to meet their revenue needs without further burdening their customers with higher bills.

And, whereas gas appliances and ICE vehicles will always run on fossil fuels, there is the chance for electric cars and appliances to run on completely clean energy as we increasingly source our electrical power from renewables. Residents can combat rising electricity rates by investing in low-cost energy efficiency measures and receive tax credits for doing so. Tax credits are also available for electric vehicles and solar power.

Soon, many states in the Southeast will be developing rebate programs for household electrification and energy efficiency upgrades, some of which will be exclusively for low-income households. As the grid gets cleaner–even if it is in fits and starts as clean energy advocates battle fossil fuel interests in utility and state legislative proceedings–efficiency and electrification will make it easier to meet needs with clean energy.

Get Involved in the Clean Energy Generation

As members of the Clean Energy Generation, we all have the power to take action and make a difference where we can in reducing our energy usage. We can explore energy upgrades to make our homes more energy efficient and comfortable, as well as the methods to help make these changes more affordable – and then we can share what we learn with our communities. However, the burden isn’t solely on us. Understanding how our utility providers produce energy and how utility regulators charge us for that energy is important.

To learn more from one Georgia resident who made home energy improvements more affordable with the help of incentives and funding, watch our Clean Energy Generation webinar with Larry Heiman.

Watch the Webinar

Join the Movement

The post High Electric Bills? It’s Not You, It’s Them! appeared first on SACE | Southern Alliance for Clean Energy.

High Electric Bills? It’s Not You, It’s Them!

Renewable Energy

How the VEU Program Works: Step by Step for Homeowners

Published

9 hours ago

November 18, 2025

Alice Rush

Are you a homeowner in Victoria?

Working on how to make your home more energy-efficient while saving on bills, reducing your carbon footprint, and even getting discounts via government-supported programs?

If so, this blog is for you!

We’re going to take you on a walkthrough on how the Victorian Energy Upgrades (VEU) Program works, explain the key players involved, and break down essential terms like VEECs (Victorian Energy Efficiency Certificates) and accredited providers.

You’ll also find a step-by-step guide for homeowners from the application process, getting quotes and installation, to certification and savings.

At Cyanergy Australia, we specialise in residential installations under the VEU scheme, so we’ll draw on our experience and share practical insights to help you make the most of this program.

Let’s get into the details!

In this blog post:

What is the VEU Program?

The VEU (Victorian Energy Upgrades) program is a flagship energy-efficiency initiative run in the state of Victoria.
Supported by the state government, this scheme enables households to replace outdated, inefficient appliances
and systems with energy-efficient alternatives.

This is often offered at little or no cost. From LED lighting and efficient hot water systems to smart thermostats
and insulation, each upgrade slashes your energy use and reduces your carbon footprint.

And the best part? The process is simple, transparent, and designed to make energy efficiency effortless.

In just a few easy steps, you can enjoy lower bills, a more comfortable home, and the satisfaction of contributing to
a cleaner, greener Victoria.

Some Key Outlines of the VEU Program

The scheme was developed under the Victorian Energy Efficiency Target Act 2007, which sets a commitment for
large energy retailers to reduce greenhouse gas emissions through energy efficiency programs.
However, the VEU
airconditioning Rebate Program, which was previously set to end much sooner, has now been
officially extended until 2045

This ensures long-term support for Victorian homeowners seeking to enhance energy efficiency during heating
and
cooling.

The program is regulated by the Essential Services Commission (ESC) in Victoria. To become eligible, the
program requires installations only from accredited providers with approved products or services listed
in the Public Product Registry.
The legal mechanics essentially require energy retailers to meet annual targets for greenhouse gas
reduction.

They do this by acquiring certificates called VEECs, which
we’ll discuss in the next section.

Why the VEU Rebate Matters for Victorian Homeowners?

Upgrading to more efficient appliances or insulation often has high upfront costs and several other complexities. This can be burdensome for low-income households, so the government introduced the VEU program in order to remove financial barriers.

For example, by enabling discounts and rebates through a market-based certificate system, the program helps make it more financially appealing for homeowners.

What Does it Mean for Homeowners?

In Australia, many people often ask: Is the VEU Rebate Worth It? Well, here’s why the answer is ‘Yes’ for homeowners:

In practical terms, if you live in Victoria and upgrade your home via an accredited provider, you can get access to discounted or even no-cost energy-efficient products and services. Also,

The VEU Rebate directly reduces the cost of energy-efficient upgrades,
This makes improvements such as better insulation, solar hot water systems, and efficient heating and cooling widely accessible.
It not only lowers upfront expenses but also helps households save on ongoing energy bills.
The rebate helps to increase the comfort and value of their home and contributes to long-term environmental benefits.
It’s a practical way to invest in your home while easing financial pressure.

From our experience at Cyanergy Australia, many homeowners are pleasantly surprised by how accessible the program is when you choose a provider who understands it.

The Role of VEECs in Victoria’s Energy Future

So, what is a VEEC?

VEEC stands for Victorian Energy Efficiency Certificate. Each certificate represents one tonne of greenhouse gas emissions prevented or reduced through an eligible upgrade, such as installing LED lighting, upgrading heating and cooling systems, or improving insulation.

How do VEECs work?

A homeowner does an eligible upgrade via an accredited provider.
That upgrade yields a certain number of VEECs, based on the greenhouse‐gas savings of that item.
The accredited provider then sells those VEECs to large energy retailers who are required to surrender them to meet their legal obligations.
The income from selling VEECs enables the provider to offer you the discounted price for the upgrade. That’s how you get the benefit.

Now you might be wondering what an Accredited Providers (AP) mean.

An accredited provider is a business that’s authorised under the VEU scheme to conduct eligible upgrade activities, create VEECs, liaise with homeowners, and ensure agreement with the program’s rules.

Behind Every Upgrade: VEECs and Accredited Providers in Action!

Understanding VEECs and accredited providers helps you recognise how the discount or rebate works. Keep in mind you’re not getting a random free upgrade; you’re getting access to a government-backed scheme run through certified channels.

So, you should be clear about all these questions before upgrading

Is this provider accredited under VEU?
Which VEEC activity does this upgrade qualify for?
Which model or product is being installed, and is it on the approved list?

Step-by-Step: Claiming Your Energy Upgrade Benefits with VEU

The process of how the VEU Program works is straightforward and simple. It includes a few stepwise processes, from application to installation, certification, and monitoring.

Let’s explore each step together in the following section:

Step 1: Background Research & Eligibility Check

Initially, you have to contact an accredited provider in your area. However, before contacting, conduct some background research on their previous experiences and running projects.
The provider checks whether your home is eligible under the VEU program, taking into account your location, type of dwelling, desired upgrade, and the eligible products.
They will offer you a quote outlining: the product to be installed, the discount amount under VEU, and the amount you have to contribute.

Step 2: Quote Approval & Scheduling

After reviewing the quote, ensure you understand the product brand or model, the installation cost, and what items are included (such as labour and the decommissioning of the old unit).
Also, check the warranty and any additional or extra-cost items.
Once you sign off, the installation is scheduled to proceed. Accredited providers will provide you with a specific timeframe and keep you updated.

Step 3: Installation of the System

The system provider arranges qualified, licensed installers to carry out the work. The installed products must meet eligibility criteria and installation standards under the VEU scheme.
On installation day, it’s best if you are present so the installer can access the areas, remove old units if relevant, test the new product, take photos if needed, and ensure everything is working correctly.
After installation, ensure you receive the necessary documentation, including the invoice, product model details, and, if applicable, a decommissioning certificate for the old equipment, as well as proof of installation.

Step 4: Certification and VEEC Creation

Once the upgrade is complete, the accredited provider submits the activity under the VEU program, creating the corresponding number of VEECs based on the product, activity type, and the greenhouse gas savings achieved.
These VEECs are then sold to energy retailers who deliver them to the ESC (via the VEU Registry).
After this is all finalised, you begin to enjoy lower energy bills and improved energy performance.

Step 5: Monitor your System Regularly

It’s now just a matter of using your upgraded system, enjoying the improved efficiency, and monitoring your energy bills. Many upgrades (especially lighting, insulation, and efficient hot water) will deliver noticeable savings.
If anything goes wrong, such as product failure or installation fault, please contact your provider under warranty.
It’s wise to keep all documentation in a safe place, as you will need it during any official audits or future upgrades.

Here’s What You Can Upgrade Under VEU!

Hot Water Systems

Upgrade to an energy-efficient heat
pump
or solar hot water system for reliable hot water and lower energy use.

Heating & Cooling Units

Switch to high-efficiency reverse-cycle
air
conditioners or split systems to stay comfortable while cutting your power bills.

LED Lighting

Replace old halogen or incandescent bulbs with
energy-saving
LEDs and reduce lighting costs by up to 80%!

In-Home Displays (IHDs)

Track your energy usage in real-time and take control of your electricity bills with smart in-home displays.

Weather Sealing

Improve insulation to keep your home cool in summer and warm in winter, saving energy year-round.

Refrigerators & Freezers

Replace old, power-hungry appliances with modern, energy-efficient models to lower your electricity costs.

What are the Common Pitfalls of VEU & How to Avoid Them?

Did you know that even a minor mistake could result in your VEU
rebate being disqualified?

Yes, it happens more often than you’d think in VIC! But don’t worry! We’ve got your back.

Here’s a quick and easy checklist that helps you avoid any common mistakes and make sure your rebate works
smoothly

Don’t fall for fake, flashy rebate offers. If a provider arrives unannounced, offers a “free upgrade”
without a proper quote, or adds huge extra costs after you’ve agreed, this is a red flag.
Some businesses may claim to be part of VEU but aren’t properly accredited. Always check and avoid
non-accredited providers.
Even when the subsidy is real, if you want a product that’s reliable and suitable for your home, then don’t
install low-quality products.
Lack of transparency about upgrade scope: Understand exactly what you are paying, what’s included, and if
old equipment removal is included.
Find whether additional wiring or structural work is required in any place.
Never think the upgrade is “totally free” cause there may still be a homeowner or tenant’s
contribution.

Many upgrades are heavily subsidised, but some of them require your contribution, for example, when you
choose a
higher-end product than the subsidy covers.

Why Cyanergy Is the Smart Choice for Your VEU Upgrades?

At Cyanergy Australia, when we work with homeowners under the VEU program, we take care of all the paperwork and ensure you use eligible, high-quality products every step of the way.

Not only that, we clearly explain any additional costs upfront, so there are no surprises later. Once everything’s confirmed, we schedule your installation with our licensed professionals, ensuring everything meets VEU standards.

With years of experience in residential installations, we know what works and what homeowners truly value.

So, if you’re looking for expertise, transparency, and genuine savings, Cyanergy ticks all the boxes.

For more information, reach out to our experts and win a free solar quote today!

Glossary of Terms

Terms	Abbreviation
Accredited Provider (AP)	A business authorised under the VEU program to conduct eligible upgrades, create VEECs, and manage the process with homeowners.
Decommissioning	The removal or disposal of the old, inefficient appliance or system. It’s often required as part of eligibility to generate VEECs.
Public Product Registry	An official database maintained by the ESC, listing all approved and eligible products that can be installed under the VEU program.
VEU	Victorian Energy Upgrades program, the state government scheme in Victoria that supports energy-efficient upgrades for homes & businesses.
VEEC	Victorian Energy Efficiency Certificate: one certificate equals one tonne of greenhouse gas emissions prevented. This is created via upgrade activities and traded by accredited providers to energy retailers.
Victorian Energy Efficiency Target Act 2007	The legislation that established the VEU program. It mandates energy retailers to achieve specific greenhouse gas reduction targets by supporting energy-efficient upgrades across Victoria.

Your Solution Is Just a Click Away

The post How the VEU Program Works: Step by Step for Homeowners appeared first on Cyanergy.

How the VEU Program Works: Step by Step for Homeowners

Renewable Energy

LM Wind Power Cuts 60% of Denmark Staff

Published

10 hours ago

November 18, 2025

Alice Rush

Weather Guard Lightning Tech

LM Wind Power Cuts 60% of Denmark Staff

The crew discusses LM Wind Power’s dramatic layoff of 60% of remaining Danish staff, dropping from 90 to just 31 workers. What does this mean for thousands of wind farms with LM blades? Is government intervention possible? Who might acquire the struggling blade manufacturer? Plus, a preview of the Wind Energy O&M Australia 2026 conference in Melbourne this February.

Learn more about CICNDT!
Register for ORE Catapult’s UK Offshore Wind Supply Chain Spotlight!

Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!

If you haven’t downloaded your latest edition of PES Wind Magazine, now’s the time issue four for 2025. It’s the last issue for 2025 is out and I just received mine in the Royal Mail. I had a brief time to review some of the articles inside of this issue. Tremendous content, uh, for the end of the year.

Uh, you wanna sit down and take a good long read. There’s plenty of articles that affect what you’re doing in your wind business, so it’s been a few moments. Go to peswind.com Download your free copy and read it today. You’re listening to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast, brought to you by build turbines.com.

Learn, train, and be a part of the Clean Energy Revolution. Visit build turbines.com today. Now here’s your hosts, Alan Hall, Joel Saxon, Phil Totaro, and Rosemary Barnes. Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy [00:01:00]Podcast. I’m your host, Alan Hall in the Queen city of Charlotte, North Carolina. I’ve got Yolanda Padron in Texas.

Joel Saxon up in Wisconsin and Rosemary Barnes down under in Australia, and it has been a, a really odd Newsweek. There is a slow down happening in wind. Latest news from Ella Wind Power is they’re gonna lay off about 60% of their staff in Denmark. They’ve only have about 90 employees there at the moment.

Which is a dramatic reduction of what that company once was. Uh, so they’re planning to lay off about 59 of the 90 workers that are still there. Uh, the Danish media is reporting. There’s a lot of Danish media reporting on this at the moment. Uh, there’s a letter that was put out by Ellen Windpower and it discusses that customers have canceled orders and are moving, uh, their blade production to internal factories.

And I, I assume. That’s a [00:02:00] GE slash Siemens effort that is happening, uh, that’s affecting lm and customers are willing to pay prices that make it possible to run the LM business profitably. Uh, the company has also abandoned all efforts on large blades because I, I assume just because they don’t see a future in it for the time being now, everybody is wondering.

How GE Renova is involved in this because they still do own LM wind power. It does seem like there’s two pieces to LM at the minute. One that serves GE Renova and then the another portion of the company that’s just serving outside customers. Uh, so far, if, if you look at what GE Renova paid for the company and what revenue has been brought in, GE Renova has lost about 8.3 billion croner, which is a little over a billion dollars since buying the company in 2017.

So it’s never really been. Hugely profitable over that time. And remember a few months ago, maybe a month ago now, or two months ago, the CEO of LM [00:03:00] Windpower left the company. Uh, and I now everyone, I’m not sure what the future is for LM Windpower, uh, because it’s, it has really dramatically shrunk. It’s down to what, like 3000 total employees?

I think they were up at one point to a little over when Rosie was there, about 14,000 employees. What has happened? Maybe Rosemary, you should start since you were working there at one point.

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, I dunno. It always makes me really sad and there’s still a few people that I used to work with that were there when I went to Denmark in May and caught up with a bunch of, um, my old colleagues and most of them had moved on because a lot of firing had already happened by that point.

But there were still a few there, but the mood was pretty despondent and I think that they guessed that this was coming. But I just find it really hard to see how with the number, just the pure number of people that are left there. I, I find it really hard to see how they can even support what they’ve still [00:04:00] got in the field.

Um. Let alone like obviously they cut way back on manufacturing. Okay. Cut Way back on developing new products. Okay. But you still do need some capabilities to work through warranty claims and um, you know, and any kind of serial issues. Yeah, I would be worried about things like, um, you know, from time to time you need a new, a new blade or a new set of blades produced.

Maybe a lot of them, you know, if you discover an issue, there’s a serial defect that doesn’t, um, become obvious until 10 years into the turbine’s lifetime. You might need to replace a whole bunch of blades and are you gonna be able to, like, what’s, what is gonna happen to this huge number of assets that are out there with LM blades on there?

Uh, I, yeah, I, I would really like to see some announcements about what they’re keeping, you know, what functionality they’re planning to keep and what they’re planning to excise.

Joel Saxum: But I mean, at the end of the day, if it’s, if [00:05:00] the business is not profitable to run that they have no. Legal standing to have to stay open?

Rosemary Barnes: No, no, of course not. We all know that there, there’s, you know, especially like you go through California, there’s all sorts of coast turbines there that nobody knows how to maintain them anymore. Right. And, um, yeah, and, and around there was one in, um, in Texas as well with some weird kind of gearbox. I can’t remember what exactly, but yeah, like the company went bankrupt, no one knew what to do with them, so they just, you know, like fell into disrepair and couldn’t be used anymore.

’cause if you can’t. Operate them safely, then you can’t let no one, the government is not gonna let you just, you know, just. Try your luck, operate them until rotors start flying off. You know, like that’s not really how it works. So yeah, I do think that like you, you can’t just stay silent about, um, what you expect to happen because you know, like maybe I have just done some, a bit of catastrophizing and, you know, finding worst case scenarios, but that is where your mind naturally goes.

And the absence of information about what you can expect, [00:06:00] then that’s what. People are naturally gonna do what I’ve just done and just think through, oh, you know, what, what could this mean for me? It might be really bad. So, um, yeah, it is a little bit, a little bit interesting.

Allen Hall: Delamination and bottom line, failures and blades are difficult problems to detect early.

These hidden issues can cost you millions in repairs and lost energy production. C-I-C-N-D-T are specialists to detect these critical flaws before they become expensive burdens. Their non-destructive test technology penetrates deep to blade materials to find voids and cracks. Traditional inspections, completely.

Miss C-I-C-N-D-T Maps. Every critical defect delivers actionable reports and provides support to get your blades. Back in service, so visit cic ndt.com because catching blade problems early will save you millions. Yolanda, what are asset managers [00:07:00] thinking about the LM changes as they proceed with orders and think about managing their LM Blade fleet over the next couple of years, knowing that LM is getting much smaller Quicker?

Yolanda Padron: Yeah, and this all comes at a time when. A lot of projects are reaching the end of the full service agreements that they had with some of these OEMs, right? So you already know that your risk profile is increasing. You already know. I mean, like Rosie, you said worst case scenario, you have a few years left before you don’t know what to do with some of the issues that are being presented.

Uh, because you don’t count with that first line of support that you typically would in this industry. It’s really important to be able to get a good mix of the technical and the commercial. Right? We’ve all seen it, and of course, we’re all a little bit biased because we’re all engineers, right? So we, to us it makes a lot of sense to go over the engineering route.

But the pendulum swung, swung so [00:08:00] far towards the commercial for Ella, the ge, that it just, it. They were always thinking about, or it seemed from an outsider’s point of view, right, that they were always thinking about, how can I get the easiest dollar today without really thinking about, okay, five 10 steps in the future, what’s going to happen to my business model?

Like, will this be sustainable? It did Just, I don’t know, it seems to me like just letting go of so many engineers and just going, I know Rosie, you mentioned a couple of podcasts ago about how they just kept on going from like Gen A to Gen B, to Gen C, D, and then it just, without really solving any problems initially.

Like, it, it, it was just. It’s difficult for me to think that nobody in those leadership positions thought about what was gonna happen in the [00:09:00]future.

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. I think it was about day-to-day survival. ’cause I was definitely there like saying, you know, there’s too many, um, technical problems that Yeah. When I was saying that a hundred, a hundred of versions of me were all saying that, a lot of us were saying it.

Just in the cafeteria amongst ourselves. And a lot of us, uh, you know, a bit more outspoken Danish people don’t really believe a lot in a strict hierarchy. So certainly people were saying it to directors and VPs and CEOs, but, um, yeah, it was, uh, I think it was more about like the commercial reality of today is that there won’t be a commercial.

Tomorrow to experience these engineering problems if we don’t make these, um, decisions. Now, if, if that makes sense. As a really complicated way of saying we need to be able to sell this product, otherwise we’re not gonna sell anything. And then no one will be, no one will have a job in 10 years regardless.

So. We’ll solve, you know, whatever quality problems that arise from doing too many new technologies at once, at [00:10:00] least we’ll be, the company will still exist to be able to have a go at solving them if we, you know, make these sales. Um, which it won’t if we don’t. So I think that that would be the, like the other point of view, like it’s really easy to say now, oh yeah, we should have, um, we shouldn’t have done that, but yeah, I, I’m pretty sure management’s gonna tell you why they did it is for the sales.

Joel Saxum: This is an odd case being lm an ex Danish company now owned by GE Renova, which is a US based company.

Allen Hall: Global.

Joel Saxum: Global really. But yeah, but when we get into this, too big to fail type thing, right? So like Siemens cesa, having the German government back them up with a note, um, when they were having troubles a year and a half ago.

Uh. Is there a award like the too big to fail in the United States where the government bailed out the auto worker or the auto manufacturers and stuff like that. I don’t see that happening here because the company’s too small. But at what level do governments [00:11:00] intervene? Right? So it’s, I know every government’s gonna be different and every, but there’s have their own criteria and there’s not a hard set, probably line or metric of like, oh, you have this much impact on society, so we must support you to make sure you survive.

Well, when Rosemary, when you say like in, when you were there, you were there five years ago, 2020, right before COVID. Right. At that point in time, 20% of the world’s blades were LM blades of the global fleet. Well, if that’s was true still, that would be a hundred thousand plus turbines in the global fleet.

That would be LM blades. And if we have. Issues with them and we can’t solve them. I think one, one of the, one of the things that we’re, that we’re probably thankful for is there is that many, so there has been a lot of independent engineering expertise that’s been able to fix some of them. A lot of independent ISPs, you know, out there, service companies, blade repair companies that have been able to figure out how to make these things even, you know, regardless of getting the layup pattern or layup designs or any kind of engineering information from, from Malam [00:12:00] or from the OEMs.

Um, we have been able to maintain them, so that’s good. But is there a level where, I know Alan, you were shaking your head, but is there a level where anybody steps in from a government standpoint to save lm?

Allen Hall: I would almost bet that Renova has talked to the Danish government. Somebody at LM has, I would have to think that they have already.

And has been, at least in the press, no response. And with this latest announcement, it doesn’t seem like the Danish government wants to be involved. So my, my take on it is they have an American stamp on ’em right now, and Denmark and the United States are not playing nice to one another. So why would I help ge?

Why would I do that? And that’s not a bad response.

Rosemary Barnes: Potentially it wouldn’t even have to be necessarily the US or the Danish government that might have to get involved, because I know in Australia, and I’m, I can’t believe it’s different anywhere else. You have to be able to safely operate, uh, an asset like a, a wind turbine.

And that’s, um, some, [00:13:00] a responsibility of both the asset owner and the operator, but also the manufacturer and so they can compel to provide the information that you need to operate safely. I’ve always wondered how, um, ’cause you know, all the OEMs not talking, uh, LM or GE specifically here, they, they don’t really give away enough information to, um, operate assets safely, in my opinion.

So that is the key thing that you just, you can’t lose otherwise. You’re going to end up with blades that have to be scrapped or that you have to, you know, guess that it’s probably okay and then see how it goes. And, you know, that’s. Good a lot of the time, but it’s, it’s gonna make things less safe into the future.

You would expect to see more blade failures if you saw that happening a lot. So, you know, I would at least wanna make sure that you’re keeping, keeping people, keeping those models and keeping the people that know how to run them. Enough of them around. [00:14:00] Or making them publicly available.

Allen Hall: Don’t miss the UK Offshore Wind Supply Chain Spotlight 2025 in Edinburg on December 11th.

Over 550 delegates and 100 exhibitors will be at this game changing event. Connect with decision makers, explore market ready innovations and secure the partnerships to accelerate your growth. Register now and take your place at the center of the UK’s offshore Wind future. Just visit supply chain spotlight.co.uk and register today.

How soon before ING Yang puts in an offer to buy LM and or TPI? That’s gonna happen in the next six months. It has to.

Joel Saxum: What about instead of buying the factory, what if someone rises from the ashes and just buys the molds?

Allen Hall: I think you have to eat the workers. I think that’s gonna be the trouble,

Joel Saxum: but I don’t think you want them.

Allen Hall: Wow. That’s a hot take.

Joel Saxum: But honestly, like the quality coming out now, and I’ll, and I will caveat this as well, the [00:15:00] quality is not their, the quality is not all their fault. The quality of some respects is the way it was designed for manufacturing. But there is issues that we have seen and has been, have been uncovered that have been in the news, in the, in the free press that show that stuff happening in factories that shouldn’t be happening.

So do you actually want that or do you, this is why I say someone rises from the ashes and, and or, and creates something with a bunch of inco, you know, like knowing the pitfalls and the, the, the things that have happened that are bad, the things that can go well that are good. You know, when we talk to some of the people in the industry that have been around blade manufacturing, and they, and they have told us, man, we’ve seen.

Quality, uh, control mechanisms thrown on the shelves, even though we know they work just because people, defactor didn’t wanna use them for whatever reason. I don’t, you know, you don’t know, um, whether it’s inspection, whether it’s, you know, robotics this, or whether it’s [00:16:00] this solution here. Like there’s a possibility that we could do this way better.

Maybe there’s this case right now where someone is like, you know what, robotics, let’s do this. Let’s try to make it happen. Let’s get rid of this incumbent knowledge of automated blades and start fresh from a. Scratch

Allen Hall: my other hot take was GE sells their wind business,

Joel Saxum: the entire wind business.

Allen Hall: Yeah.

Joel Saxum: To who

Allen Hall: Ing Yang or somebody?

Anybody,

Rosemary Barnes: if they wanna do that, I’d recommend doing it in the, um, current administration would probably be the most likely to allow that to happen because I would imagine that, uh, another time that people might not be so happy that, uh, the US has therefore no wind turbine manufacturer.

Allen Hall: Does anybody else not think so that that’s a possibility.

They’re not listening to offers right now.

Joel Saxum: I would say Mitsubishi maybe. I don’t think Ming Yang. I don’t think some, I don’t think a Chinese, no, but I do think a Korea and a Japanese, a German

Allen Hall: could do it.

Joel Saxum: Yeah. Well, that would entertain the offer. [00:17:00]

Rosemary Barnes: What about one of the large ISPs buying, you know, the ability to, you know.

Properly, properly service blades for, you know, many, many, many manufacturers. There’s a lot of knowledge that you’d get there. Um, the ability to replace blades, maybe it splits into two and there’s, you know, one company takes it for manufacturing into the future, and which case they’re probably just buying factories and not really worried about much else.

And then somebody else buys molds and, um, knowledge. Models, those sorts of things

Joel Saxum: as a pitch for what exactly what you’re saying. So now let’s go back to, um, was it Larry Fink who said that they’re in investing in infrastructure, big time in the future, energy infrastructure is the future, da, da, da. And they, or like BlackRock’s been throwing money at everything, right?

They’ve been just buying, buying, buying, buying, buying. If some, someone came to them with the right [00:18:00] plan, there’s where your capital could come from. Who is it? Right? You know, that there’s players out there that may not be in the ISP world, I think is, p is interesting, Rosemary, but like a, a next era that’s like this with GEs,

Allen Hall: Adani,

Joel Saxum: a Donny’s in too much hot water to to, to make a deal with that, to let the SEC allow that.

Rosemary Barnes: Here’s my hot take. So LM started at the lm, it stands for lco Mills Fabric, which means, um, furniture manufacturer, right? So they started out making furniture, then they were making, um, caravans, I believe, and then there were, so that was all wood. Then they started making caravans outta fiberglass. Then they started making boats because those are also fiberglass and wood kind of things.

Then they moved into wind turbine blades and became LM glass fiber. So now they’re only doing fiberglass things. And then it was LM wind power. They only were doing wind power. Maybe, you know, [00:19:00] are they gonna go into, I don’t know, making airplanes next, or, or rockets, or are they gonna take a step backwards and, you know, go back into furniture?

Allen Hall: How do you put a value on a company that’s losing money?

Joel Saxum: That’s where I was going, Mr. Hall, October of 2016 when GE bought them, they paid one point. Six, 5 billion US dollars. I don’t think that that’s was probably a too wild of a price back then, but there’s no way that they’re worth that much now with what has has happened.

That being said, say they’re worth, I don’t know, I’m just gonna throw a number out there. Say they’re worth 800 million, half of that. I don’t see that as like a crazy amount for someone else, like Rosemary said, that may be crossing industry silos to pick up. Some factories, some, some composites knowledge, some other things as well, as long as they get, get into it.

With the understanding that this is a fire sale and [00:20:00] things need to be fixed,

Rosemary Barnes: isn’t, um, ozempic Danish? So there must be some, build, some Danish billionaires. Maybe there’s gonna be some national pride that that kicks in and makes somebody want to, you know, like Denmark is quite known for wind power. Um, if you combine, you know, the demise of LM with vest also.

Announcing a whole lot of job cuts. I, it’s not such a fast stretch to think that some Danish billionaire is gonna be like, you know what, Denmark should still have wind industry and I’m gonna make sure it happens.

Allen Hall: No shot. I don’t see it. I, it would be awesome if they did

Joel Saxum: Maersk, lm,

Allen Hall: but Meers doesn’t wanna lose money.

Why you, why would you invest in something that’s going to lose money for the next five years? Who’s doing that today?

Joel Saxum: Let’s just do a little comparison. So TPI claiming bankruptcy the other day when we looked at the Val, the market cap of them, they’re publicly traded. They were a hundred million, weren’t they?

Like a couple, six months ago,

Allen Hall: [00:21:00] $1.5 million.

Joel Saxum: Oh my God. It’s 1.5 million. Do you mean you could buy TPI over 1.5 million?

Allen Hall: I can get a second mortgage and have a pretty good take of that business. It has no value because it’s not making money. You, you’ve, it’s EBITDA times X.

Yolanda Padron: It’d be really interesting to see like an is like them turning into an ISB.

Like I will fix everything that I manufactured, gear, the molds, or like I will replace the parts.

Rosemary Barnes: It’s hard as well. I just make a few blades here or there. Um, because they only get cheap when you make thousands of them. But that said like sometimes people have to pay, at least in Australia, like it’s not uncommon that you need a new blade.

You have to pay a million dollars for it. So in that case, you know, like that’s apparently, you know, TPI, you buy TPI for one and a half and you make two blades in your first year. Then you know,

Yolanda Padron: you make a blade set, you’re done.

Joel Saxum: Yeah. So they were worth a hundred million in market cap a year ago today. [00:22:00] So it’s like a 99.6% decrease since last year.

Allen Hall: When you file bankruptcy, stuff like that happens. Here’s gonna be the rub. Whoever decides to do whatever with it, they’re gonna have to have a lot of cash because I guarantee you vendors have not been paid or. Or vendors are asking for money upfront before they make a delivery, and that’s not the way that GE likes to operate.

GE likes to operate. I buy this thing and then six months later I pay you half and another six months later, I may pay the remaining half. They don’t like to pay things upfront and. It’s gonna be a problem.

Joel Saxum: Net 180, and then on day 179, they’re gonna find a magic error in your invoice and it resets the clock.

Allen Hall: Australia’s wind farms are growing fast, but are your operations keeping up? Join us February 17th and 18th at Melbourne’s Poolman on the park for Wind Energy o and m Australia 2026, where you’ll connect with the [00:23:00] experts solving real problems in maintenance asset management and OEM relations. Walk away with practical strategies to cut costs and boost uptime that you can use the moment you’re back on site.

Register now at WM a 2020 six.com. Wind Energy o and m Australia is created by Wind professionals for wind professionals because this industry needs solutions, not speeches. So looking for something to do in February while America is in the middle of a winter snowstorm. You wanna go to Australia for?

Wind O and M Australia 2026 and it is going to be February, what, Joel?

Joel Saxum: 17th and 18th at the Pullman on the park in sunny. Melbourne

Allen Hall: and Rosemary, what’s on the schedule for the event in Sunny Australia?

Rosemary Barnes: Well, it’s, uh, agenda just full of the topics that Australian operators are talking about at the moment.

Um, there’s, you are gonna be [00:24:00] topics on compliance. Um, also training is a, a big thing. Training and resources to get workforce up to speed. Um, also some on big data and ai, they’re catchy. Uh, yeah, hyped up terms. But can you actually do something useful with it? I mean, you definitely can, but how do you, um, and then just heaps of stuff about just specific asset management problems that people are having be a lot of talking about problems.

And there’s also gonna be a lot of talking about solutions. So that’s kind of the point. It’s the, it’s the place where you can get. Both sides. ’cause I think, yeah, both sides are very important.

Joel Saxum: I think one, one of the things that is was good about the event last year and we’re excited about this year as well, is we tried to fit in as many networking opportunities as we could.

We’ve got a lot of coffee breaks. We’ve got breakfast, we’ve got a cocktail hour, we’ve got lunches, we’ve got all these things, and it’s kind of designed around keeping the whole crew together in one spot. So we’re able to share information, have those conversations. Oh, you have this asset. Oh, I [00:25:00] know this one.

Um, operators, speaking to operators, speaking to ISPs about specialties fixes. What are you doing? Could we implement that in our fleet? Those kind of things, right? And that’s about the, we, we talk on the podcast and in our daily lives regularly. Everybody here in the podcast is about collaboration and sharing information and sharing knowledge, and that’s the way that we’re gonna forward the, uh, industry.

So we’re really excited. Again, again, this is round two. We’re bringing this event down to Australia. Last year was great. I think we had basically every major operator represented, uh, at the event. And we’re gonna repeat that again this year.

Rosemary Barnes: I really like the size of it. Last year, I think we were about 170 or 180, which was our limit for that, that event, we did sell out this year.

We, uh, increased that a little bit to 250. Um, but it’s a good size. It’s not like, I don’t know if there’s any other, um, introverts out there, but usually when I go to an event, I get so exhausted from just. Uh, I don’t know the, the pressure of if there’s [00:26:00] an exhibition hole that you’re supposed to wander around and, you know, like the last conference I went to had like probably 20 parallel streams and it’s just like, what am I supposed to see?

Oh, these sessions all sound similar, which is gonna be the good one. Um, and then you’re trying to meet up with people as well. This event, it’s targeted enough. It’s one session. You’re gonna find probably at least 95% of the sessions interesting if you are working in wind energy, o and m in Australia. So you just go there, you sit down, you watch the interesting information, and every single person that you run into when you at lunch or coffee or whatever, every every single person is gonna be someone you can have an interesting conversation with.

So it’s just. It’s a lot, uh, it’s a lot easier for someone who, I mean, you, Americans, you’re all, uh, it’s like national law, right? That you have to be extroverted. It’s not allowed to be any kind of other personality type in America. But in Australia, there’s a lot of, uh, a lot of introverts. And, uh, I would say that this is a much, much more introvert friendly event than [00:27:00] your typical big, big, broad conference.

Allen Hall: Well, you won’t want to miss Wilma 2026. In order to get, what are those 250 seats, you need to register and you need to register now. So visit wma w om a 2020 six.com and. Get signed in, get registered, and we’ll see you in Australia in February. That wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast.

Thanks for joining us as we explore the latest in wind energy technology and industry insights. If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Just reach out to us on LinkedIn and don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you found value in today’s conversation.

Please leave us a review. It really helps other wind energy professionals discover the show and we’ll catch you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy [00:28:00] Podcast.

https://weatherguardwind.com/lm-wind-denmark/