Published

8 months ago

September 18, 2025

Alice Rush

We4Ce & CNC Onsite’s Re-FIT Blade Root Repair Goes Global

Edo Kuipers from We4Ce and Søren Kellenberger from CNC Onsite discuss their Re-FIT blade root repair solution, which has been successfully implemented at a wind farm in Southeast Asia. The solution allows operators to keep blades onsite while repairing critical blade root bushing failures.

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Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining Light on Wind. Energy’s brightest innovators. This is the Progress Powering Tomorrow.

Allen Hall: Ed0o and Soren, welcome to the program.

Edo Kuipers: Thank you very much.

Thank you both.

Allen Hall: We have some really exciting news from you, from the field, but first I, I want to start with the problem, which. A lot of operators have right now, which is this blade root, bushing it in or insert issue, which is really critical to blades and you’re the creator of the device that’s gonna save a lot of blades.

You want to talk about what happens? When these blade root bushings fail?

Edo Kuipers: Uh, yeah. What we have seen is that it especially concerns, um, uh, polyester type of blades. And what we see is that, um, bushings and, and, and composites, they are not attached to each other anymore. And after a [00:01:00] while, blades are simply flying off.

That’s the, that’s the whole, that’s the whole problem. Of course. And now going back to the root cause, the root cause here is we are working with, with foes and. The fact is that if you’re working with polyesters, they already have, um, at the, uh, uh, during the process, the curing process, they have already curing shrinkages.

So we have already curing shrinkages, which means we have already initial micro flagging going on, on the interface between the bushing and, and, and, and the limited around it. And that reduces, that reduces the um, surface. Carrying area. And by doing so, because we have less area, surface area that can transfer the loads from the hub, um, from the blades to the hub, eh, we have limited amount of, of years on running.

So we are reducing, uh, the, the amount of years [00:02:00] that the blades are on the, on the, on the turbine safely.

Joel Saxum: This problem is compounding right now simply because there’s a lot of the global wind turbine fleet that’s starting to age. Right. Like we, we, we went through a big push in, you know, the early two thousands, 2000 tens, 2000 twenties to now where, you know, if you look at the country of Spain, we hear that regularly, Alan is, Hey, we’re getting to the end of life.

We’re close to the end of life. Then there’s people saying, what is the remaining useful life? Where are we at? Um, and this is one of those issues where. It can develop rapidly, right? So if there’s an issue, you can, if you catch it in time, great. You’re good. But it can develop rapidly and that can lead to catastrophic losses.

But I guess my, one of the questions I want to ask you, and you guys of course have done some commercial here. Uh, how many turbines do you think are affected by this globally affected by this root bushing issues?

Edo Kuipers: Oh, that’s a good one. If I, if I talk a number of blades at the moment, we are more or less at a ball point figure about 30, [00:03:00] 40,000.

Blades. Wow. Worldwide. So we see many us, we see many in South America and we see also in Southeast Asia, like India. And those blades are running, let’s say from 10 years, 12 years, and some of them also after six years,

Allen Hall: and a lot of manufacturing. Uh, blades happens in multiple sites, right? So if you have a particular OEM wind turbine, you may have a variety of different blades on your site.

You typically do. Some of them are polyesters, some of them may be epoxy, but it’s the polyester ones we need to pay attention to first, right?

Edo Kuipers: Correct. The one we are, uh, concentrating on with our solution are dealing with polyester blades because there we see the problem, especially in the, in the interface layer.

There are also root problems with epoxy types, but they are from a, from a different level.

Allen Hall: So the thing that we’re looking for when we start to see [00:04:00]the problem, so if I’m an operator and I have technicians out in the field and they’re looking at blades from the ground, typically very quickly, what are the first signs that you have problems with the bushings?

Edo Kuipers: What we generally see, the first signs is that there is a cracking going on in the ceiling, which is between the blade. The pitch bearing. So if you go up tower as a surface guy, then then look for those initial cracks, and if you see cracking, cracking in that sealant, then remove the sealant just by with a knife and, and, and go with a fill gauge to see if you’re caping going on between the root lum.

Uh, so between the bushing and the, and the, and the pitch bearing,

Allen Hall: so that sealant or gasket between the blade and the pitch bearing shouldn’t be moving or shouldn’t have flexed it. It shouldn’t have broken. It can flex. It’s made to flex a little bit, but if it breaks, it tells you there’s too much stress [00:05:00] on that sealant.

That’s really the first sign.

Edo Kuipers: That’s really the first sign. Then you still have time, but then you have to start monitoring

Allen Hall: and the, the monitoring is telling you what,

Edo Kuipers: once you. Notice this. What you have to do is, for example, you are positioning a leading edge, uh, under the tensile loading of the dead weight.

Then you measure a cap, then you pitch the blade, eh, that the, that, the, that the, that, that side is down. So it’s, it’s, it’s feeling a compressive loading, and then you can see if there is a difference. So what you’re doing is you’re measuring the variable cap. That’s a static gap, but the variation of the capping due to the, due to its own weight of the blade, and that is a sign that that movement is going on.

Allen Hall: So you’ll see compression versus tension, that gap get larger and smaller. There is always some movement in that gap, but it’s very limited if you, what typically is a threshold where you say. [00:06:00] If it’s beyond a couple of millimeters, that’s a problem. Where is that dimensional gap become an issue

Edo Kuipers: with our present customers?

We are saying, um, um, one millimeter and you have to hoist, uh, hoist the blade down.

Allen Hall: One millimeter is 40 thousandths of an inch. That’s not very much.

Edo Kuipers: If it’s, for example, five millimeters, I mean. It’s, it’s not, you’re in a, in a bad stage that within three months your, your blood, your blade could fly off.

And if you are in, in the range of one millimeter, the nice thing on that is that you have a limited amount of bushings, which needs to be replaced. So you are li limiting the effect of the repair.

Joel Saxum: So, but that’s the big thing here, right? So catching it early, it’s like anything in blades, we talk about this.

We’ve been, we’ve been beating this, this horse for a long time. Catch it early, fix it early, or you’re gonna be in a bad state. Because I mean, the, the, the worst thing that happens here, of course is the safety issue, loss of life or anything like that. But what? But the, [00:07:00] what We have seen blade breaks, blade comes down, hits the tower.

Then the tower comes down, then you’re replacing an entire turbine. And that’s, that’s horrible for the operator, the industry, everything in, in, in general. Um, but if you catch it early, now each blade has de, depending on the model, the make the design, um. 60 to 80 bushings. 60 to a hundred bushings. What’s that number?

Edo Kuipers: Yeah. 92 for example. Or 74 or, yeah. In that area.

Joel Saxum: Right. So, so, and when you, and when your solution is engaged, when the, you have to bring the, bring the blade down tower and then fix it if you catch it early. Are you talking, we’re fixing six of these, we’re fixing 40 of these. What does it usually look like?

Edo Kuipers: It’s, uh, in the, in the area of 24 to 30.

Joel Saxum: Okay.

Edo Kuipers: The nice thing on that, the nice thing is on that if we working with a drilling machine, we can do that in 24 hours drilling. So limited time. Limited time of, of [00:08:00] taking out the bushings. And if we would wait longer and we need to repair 60 bushings, it takes, let’s say 60 hours to, to drill out, so to lower the cost of the repair.

Because it’s like a chain reaction. Once it starts, it, it grows to lower the amount of the repair and the cost of repair, let’s, let’s not wait too long.

Allen Hall: Okay. So that’s a really good input into this discussion because I think a lot of operators assume if I have to do this repair, replace the bushings, I’m replacing a number of bushings regardless of the level of damage, because they’re gonna fail eventually.

But you know, what you’re saying is that. It starts in a highly loaded couple of bushings and spreads from there, if you can, if you can fix or upgrade those particular bushings, then the remaining bushings may be okay.

Edo Kuipers: Correct. Because there is always a highly loaded, like you said, and there’s always a a side which is more tensile loaded, and the other side is more compressive loaded, and especially the tensile loaded part is, is [00:09:00]more severely for the fatigue.

Joel Saxum: The other side of this is a blade replacement. So you’re either gonna, you’re going to have to, you’re gonna do something like this, or you’re gonna replace the blade. And, but now again, we’re talking about this aging fleets remaining useful life, what spares look like out in the field. A lot of these turbines.

Spares are not readily available for them. Right. If we’re talking about, and we’re talking about different markets like you, you ju you guys just executed. We’re gonna talk about this a little bit, but you just executed this amazing project, uh, over in the APAC region. It’s not easy to get blades shipped over there, or like in Australia or South America, like in the States.

We’re kind of lucky people don’t realize this, but we’re kind of lucky that we have a fleet of 75,000 turbines because there are spares around for some things. However, as these blades get older, like nobody’s gonna do you a run of a 12-year-old, 15-year-old blade, it’s what, whatever’s on the ground around the world is what we have.

And that is it Ev And then in composites, again, everything can be repaired, but it’s just how much, what is the [00:10:00] economic case for? So you guys are building that economic case to make this make sense.

Edo Kuipers: A new blade, let’s, let’s. Have the old fashioned prices of 10 euros per kilo or whatever, and you have a blade of 15 tons that will cost you like 150,000 euros.

As a new blade, you already paid for that price. Then you have to do it a second time. It’s not only that, it’s also the waiting time. If you have to wait for one year, your loss, your loss in, in, in, in, in, in revenue. Also, let’s say like 100, 150, maybe 200,000 depending on your feed into reef tariffs that you get.

It’s also, that’s also a loss. So the total thing will cost you already like easily like 200, 300,000 euros for for one turbine, right? Or one for one rot blade. If you do a repair, then there’s a repair. It’ll cost you like a fraction of that. It’ll cost you maybe like 30, 40,000 euros.

Joel Saxum: Yeah. And the reality is, is when you [00:11:00] replace one blade, you normally are replacing all three.

I mean, unless you, unless you can find a, a matching, you know, a good, well you, you get lucky and you find one blade that has the weight certificate and a bending moment certificate that matches your other. Two that are up tower. Mm, pretty rare. More than likely you’re getting all three new blades. So then all of a sudden your 150 turns into 450 before you even start it.

Soren Kellenberger: Absolutely. And that’s, that’s if you can get a replacement blade because if you need to go back to a, a manufacturer Right, they, they will not sell you that blade for the original 150,000 Euros. Uh, so. If they at all have a mold before they get it started up and all the initial cost in, in getting that up and running, you are looking at 2, 3, 4 times the price of the, of the new blade.

So it, it really adds up if you have to replace. And there’s of course also the whole discussion right now with, um, the old blades and all the waste it’s, uh, creating. So from an environmental perspective, it’s [00:12:00] also a huge benefit to, uh, repairs instead have replaced. Uh, but, but the financial is, it’s just, uh, yeah.

Basically a no brainer, right?

Allen Hall: Oh yeah. The financials make total sense. And this is where we’re gonna get to the solution from WE four C, which is called Refit, which is a, a bushing upgrade and the workings together of two separate companies. So we have WE four C, which is, uh, based in the Netherlands of course, and then we.

We have Sorin and CNC onsite, which is based in Denmark, so they’re really relatively close to one another, and both companies are powerhouses in wind and, and fixing wind and making it more efficient and getting our turbines optimized for long-term duration, which. What we in the states have not been doing, but we’re, that’s gonna rapidly change in the next couple of months.

Uh, so this refit solution does make a lot of sense to me just because the demand is [00:13:00] gonna be there and we need to have some way of doing this. And, uh, this is what I want to talk to both of you about, because understanding how to replace these bushings, it, it seems at first, like it’s an impossible task.

You brought two powerhouses together to solve this problem. You wanna discuss how the two companies work together, we foresee and CNC onsite, and how this, uh, repair rework is accomplished.

Soren Kellenberger: I think if we, if we take it back a step, um, we at CNC or uh, onsite was originally involved in a plate repair project.

Uh. Before, actually before the, the Corona uh, uh, situation. Uh, so we had worked on a machine and made some, uh, tests in, in our workshop on this repair, drilling out bushings. Um, then Corona came and the project was stopped and never restarted again. So about four years, pretty much to the, [00:14:00] to the date because it was at the Huon wind, which is now coming up again in, in one and a half week.

Um, we were in, we met, uh, we foresee, uh, so we had this drilling technology sitting there, and I walked around and I saw these, uh, nice, uh, bushings and, and, uh, a couple of nice gentlemen standing there. So I approached, uh, IDO and, and Arnold and said, uh, Hey guys, this, uh, this, this looks nice. What is it? And, uh, we started talking about that.

Uh, they actually had the. Pushing technology ready. They needed someone who could drill out the old ones. And yeah, we had the technology to drill out the old ones and needed someone who could insert those replacement pushing. So it was actually, um, a very, a very good fit. And then the whole corporation just started off basically on trust.

I mean, we signed the NDA and stuff like that, but we just trusted each other and, and moved, uh, forward. And it took some time before getting to the first customer also. What you mentioned in the [00:15:00] beginning, right, Alan, that there’s, yeah, it looks nice, but has it been done before? It’s been, we’ve heard that question, uh, a lot of times.

Um, so it took some time before we got through all the testing and stuff like that, but, uh, now it’s up and running and, uh, works really well.

Edo Kuipers: At the third point, the customer said to us, if you can show a test with this number of cycles and fatigue, it was something like a certain level and a 1 million cycles test.

If you can show that to me, then we will sign the contract. So we sent two coupons, you one to a, to a Dutch Institute, independent, one to a German Institute who was doing um, um, coupon testings. And we said, okay, run it. Run them off both for 1 million cycles. And they had, they had the same result. So, and both, both have reached the 1 million cycles.

So we said to the customers, we did not provide one component with 1 million cycles, but two for you to, to make sure. And also at different test institute. [00:16:00] And then they signed the contract and at all went. Very fast after that.

Allen Hall: Well, yeah, if as soon as you can show the technology works in the laboratory, the next step is to get it deployed.

So the, the, the process works sort of like this. And, and stop me if I’m too far off because I’ve had to explain to me very slowly. Ada has done this very carefully. So let’s see if I can, uh, explain it to the teacher. I’m gonna take, I’m gonna remove the blade off. I’m gonna bring the blade down, and they’re gonna call Soren’s people at CNC onsite.

And they’re going to actually. Have tooling this amazing tooling to drill out this old bushing and make it such that this ados wonderful refit solution can slide into this new drilled spot that’s been perfectly honed. And this new bushing goes in and there’s a bunch of epoxies added behind it to hold that new bushing in place.

And then once that’s done, I move to the next one. And because the system is set up with CNC onsite to have [00:17:00] to go ahead and, and drill out multiple bushings, uh, very quickly, this process, once the blade is down, is actually very quick. So you’re talking about maybe a couple of days total to repair a blade that otherwise would be

Edo Kuipers: discarded.

This is, I’m very happy with this at the moment. And this is also with thanks to the um, uh, to the criteria, to the cap measurements of up tower we are doing. So this is the first step we have to do, of course. But thanks to that we only need a limited amount of bushing. So we are doing, let’s say like 24 to 30 bushings are being drilled out.

This takes us. 24 hours, more or less, we are doing it. We could do it in three shifts, so then it’s one day, but we are not doing it in one sh one shift. They, they are working neatly, they are working accurate and with the same team. And so they are doing three days. After these three days, they are, they are done with the drilling.

Um, then we need to start the [00:18:00] preparations, so the new bushings needs to be implemented. That will take us, let’s say like eight hours of preparations, because everything needs to be far tight and that that is essential for our solution. It needs to be low, far level, so all the air out. And then after this, that takes about eight hours, and after that we have the infusion day.

That’s a really exciting day always, because once. The resin is running. We can’t stop it anymore. Right? So this, this day is also, let’s say eight hours. So, and then we have some finishing because it would be nice if we are hoisting up the blade again. A tower that the, that the root is, is flat. Yeah. All the resin pieces are off.

And we may have to make sure that, uh, that all the, all the bushings are aligned well for the proper load distributions. Um, another, let’s say another few hours, maybe eight hours. So then we are 48 hours, 50 hours of the whole process working with three or four people. That’s it.

Allen Hall: [00:19:00] Wow. And does it take anybody special to be on site from like the CNC onsite?

You know, c NNC onsite makes these great machines that are highly accurate. Uh, Soren, do you need to have specialized people on site or are you training people that are local to do this work?

Soren Kellenberger: We are training local people. So that is, that is part of, of the whole solution that, that we do a technology transfer.

So it’s, people are trained with this specific project. We started by having the, the team in Europe, uh, so they had some, some training days with, uh, IDO and the guys in the Netherlands on the, uh, whole mounting and infusion technology. And then they came to our workshop and trained in operating the drilling machine.

Afterwards. Then for the startup, we send the technicians, uh, to, to the customer, um, who supported for a couple of weeks, and then we went back. Uh, and then we are basically, uh, always ready to support. But on teams or whatever, we can set up a link and, and [00:20:00] a system if needed. They are running with it, uh, very well.

So it’s, it’s been very limited what we’ve had to do. Uh, we get some feedback on the drilling process so we can optimize some parameters and, and step by step, uh, improve the process time. We’ve done some optimizations to the drills, uh, to make them last longer and, and do. Those, uh, things more efficiently, but they are basically running on their own

Joel Saxum: guys.

I think that’s something to make sure that we don’t breeze over here as well. Is the local content part of your solution. So you’ve done all the expert engineering, uh, figuring out the processes, of course, all the, the precision machining equipment from Soren’s team as well, but you can export it to different locales and train up the local staff and get them moving.

So places like it’s, it’s expensive. It’s difficult to get people into South Asia. It’s expensive, it’s difficult to get people into South America, to Australia, to, to anywhere really. You’re gonna export this. However, what you’re also doing is bringing local jobs, local [00:21:00] work, local revenue to the local teams.

And I know that that makes a lot of, a lot of people happy. Um, including, I know, like we’re, we’re sitting in the States, right? There’s a lot of ISPs over here, hopefully listening to this. They’re saying like, Ooh, we’d like to be the people that implement this solution over in the States. Let’s get ahold of these guys.

Uh, so kudos to you on that as well.

Edo Kuipers: Yes. The idea is indeed to have, um, on different regions in the world, uh, different, uh, repair hubs so that we can always work with the same teams, with the, with the, with the same people. So we train them, educate them, and then of course, from the Netherlands and of course from Denmark, we still, we will always support them, but it can also be done by a teams or a conference calling.

Allen Hall: And let’s talk about the Southeast Asia. Project you just completed successfully and uh, it looked fantastic. That was the first major project that you’ve tried this technology on. Besides everything in a laboratory, kind of one off things, but now you’re going to scale. This is a big step. [00:22:00] How did it go?

How did that process start? What did it look like afterwards?

Edo Kuipers: Um, how did it start? Uh, by doing it, I mean, sir and his team went on site, of course, and we encountered difficulties, of course, first time with drilling. And, um, that had multiple reasons. So the guys, uh, even the, the, the, the colleague of Sir went, went back to Denmark.

He changed, he fixed something on a drill, had sent a new type of drill and it ran perfectly. So from there, from that point, the drilling was no problem anymore. Then after we created the holes together, um, of course we have to do the infusion. And going from going from infusing like five bushings in a row, we had to go to 30 in a row.

And that was in the beginning, quite challenging. Um, to have, so it was a little bit like keep your fingers crossed if everything is going fine, but it works somehow. Um, it works [00:23:00] and, and all the resin came out. So we are quite happy with that. Uh, of course there are some fine tuning in the processing in the quality.

Uh, but that’s, that’s important for us is, is, is to keep, you need to keep following the. The quality processes. If you, if you strictly follow the quality processes, make sure it’s vacuum tight, make sure that you work in sections, so don’t open your resin folds all at the same time, one by one correctly.

And then just monitor and make sure that, of course, refresh your resin from time to time. Because that’s a pot life thing, and it takes, let’s say like maybe two hours before the whole resident is going through the bushing and also in the depth direction that is being impregnated well. Um, so you have to make sure that your pot life is under control.

And also we work with a tent, which is like 100 square meters, which is air conditioned, and, and that all contributes to a, [00:24:00] a controlled process. And yeah, that was very scary for the first time. I must admit that if you do second time. You get more relaxed. And the third time, it’s like driving a car the first time.

Oh, this, I need to pay attention to the gear. In the, in, in Europe, we have gears and, um, on the car and um, we, we need to, we need to drive and look around us and the navigation system. Um, so, and at a certain point it’s all going automatically. Right. How many blade did you repair in Southeast Asia? 18. Now we are working the, the, the sixth set.

Set number six has just completed, and I know this every week, I have contact, uh, with, with, with, with. With. With one guy there. It’s, it’s, we know each other good. So he, he gives us the feedback and it costs me every week. It costs me half an hour, not more.

Joel Saxum: It’s usually not one blade. It’s usually the whole step has an issue, correct?

Edo Kuipers: Yes and no. Um, what they do now at the moment, um, they, they, [00:25:00] they, they, they see that one, one blade has, um, uh, a problem. So they, they, they already. Start thinking ahead by taking all three blades down. So even if, if one or two blades within the set does not have the variable capping, they know in half a year it will happen.

That’s the experience they already have. And the the, there is the certain. They have a certain agreement here with the crane. The crane is coming, let’s say they use a crane every month for a fixed period. So they say, let’s hoist the complete set down. Then we have three weeks to repair, and in the fourth week we will hoist it out again.

Joel Saxum: Yeah. And the, and the technicians on site, once they’re trained up, uh, they’re loving it because whether it’s in the hot in South, south Asia, or if you’re doing this in the cold, you’re working in a tank. So if they got an extra couple blades to work on as a blade technician. I’m all for it. I’m all for it.

A little bit more time in the AC or in the heat and nice kind, controlled facility. It’s,

Soren Kellenberger: uh, I think the, the guys will like that a lot in the [00:26:00] field. One of the benefits you, you get also is, as Ido mentioned in, in the beginning, if you catch it early, you have fewer, uh. Bushings to repair. So, uh, you, if you catch it or, or repair it while you have your blades down already, you can repair fewer bushings.

And in terms of process time, it’s also a little bit faster. That’s also what we learned to, uh, to drill out the bushings when they are not. Too loose. Um, the more loose they get, the more risk you have of vibrations when you start drilling and that can potentially damage your drills. Uh, um, and it, it just adds to the process time.

So. There are a lot of benefits by catching these, uh, things early and getting the process, uh, completed at an earlier damage stage.

Allen Hall: Now you’ve completed your first big project. What’s next? It sounds like there’s a lot of opportunity worldwide to do this refit process.

Edo Kuipers: Yeah, we, the, the, the first, the first [00:27:00] team is the, is our number one team.

You can see it also here on the, on the breast. And, um, we are now looking basically a number two team, which is, is as excellent as the number one team. Um, so yeah, it’s not only that, um, we have to do, I mean. If you would like to have this, this technology implemented, um, it’s, it’s going Pfizer versa. So, um, very, very important is that we are working together with teams, service teams, which 100% trust each other.

That’s where it starts already. Um, and they are fixed. So if, if you have fixed teams, you teach them and they, they, they, they, they, they learn by experience and that that’s how it should be. Um, so yeah. The next step is, is we are talking with. Next step is we are talking with different, uh, potential, um, service companies, um, worldwide.

So we are talking within America with, with one or two, um, potential, um, good guys, good [00:28:00] groups. Um, the same in, in India, for example, and the same in, in, in South America. That’s, that’s our aim to have, let’s say in, in South America. Two service companies, uh, in, in, in India, two or three, uh, um, in India, in America, one, two, or three or whatever.

So that’s, we are now discussing with these parties, and it’s not only one direction, okay? We want to sell it to you. Now, it’s also the other direction. Are you capable? How do we want to work with 24 hour cycle? Do you have a place where we can install everything? So that’s our next step to explore.

Allen Hall: Yeah.

And Sorin, you have to start making more machines. I hope so.

Soren Kellenberger: No, it’s, it’s definitely, we’ve, we’ve seen a lot of interest and, and we’ve also had numerous contacts over the years. But again, it’s been back to this, have this been done before and. It sort of, no one wanted maybe to be the first, but now the first commercial project is, is out there.

It’s, it’s still [00:29:00] ongoing. And, and once this is completed, we will have installed more than a thousand bushings. Uh, so, so I think it’s, it’s a decent. Proof of concept. It’s a, it’s a real case. It’s not just one blade or one set. It’s, it’s actually a, a, a larger farm that, where, that we have, will have repaired once, uh, this project is, is, uh, 100% completed.

So it’s, it’s going really well. Uh, and I think that of course they will, once the potential customers see that, that this project is now open and running, it will move forward with, uh, contracts for, for other projects. But who is gonna be the first is still, uh, difficult to say, but, uh, I’m pretty sure that, that there will be more.

Edo Kuipers: Yeah. We would also quite be keen on getting on the table with the big OEMs because there are many parks which have still some kind of, uh, service contract, eh, uh, full service agreement or whatever. So even if park owners, many time [00:30:00] park owners say to us, Hey, we would like to have your technology implemented because that sounds to be the most robust one.

Um, but you need to convince the, the, the, the, the Big O oms. Um, and sometimes that is, that is, that is a difficult part because you need to go through, through these different steps with a lot of decision makers, uh, in these organizations. And that takes time. So request is, are on these big, OMS is to define clear criteria for us.

How, what should be, what should we fulfill? And if we fulfill this. Basically, do we then have a deal with each other? Because in the end, for us, we need to help those park owners because they are in the end, eh, um, they have the, they are feeling the pain on, on, on, on this kind of, um, yeah, sometimes hidden problems.

Allen Hall: Well, if you’re an OEM or an operator, where do you start this process? Who do you call first? Do you call we foresee or do you call CNC onsite or does it matter?

Soren Kellenberger: Call either of us and, uh, we [00:31:00] will be, make sure to, uh, involve the other parts. So that’s where the trust and cooperation comes into play. Uh, yeah, just reach out and, uh, we will, we will.

Set up joint meetings.

Allen Hall: The website for CNC onsite is CNC onsite.dk because they’re in Denmark. And the website for WE four C is we the number four, letter C, letter e.eu. And either one of those addresses will get you to the information you need about the refit and. Uh, get you started because as we’ve seen the United States, a lot of things are changing and worldwide.

We need to keep these turbines up and running longer. The way to do that is to put a little bit of money into them now instead of spending a whole bunch of money later. This is why we love we four C and C and C onsite because they’re saving operators, literally millions of dollars. So. You know, and Soren, thank you so much for being on the podcast.

We, we love having you. And as you finish up the Southeast Asia project, you gotta come back on after you [00:32:00] finish those thousand bushings and give us an update. Absolutely. We’ll be happy to.

Edo Kuipers: Yes, thanks a lot. We are fully happy to.

https://weatherguardwind.com/refit-blade-root-repair/

Renewable Energy

NextEra Buys Dominion, China Outpaces Vestas

Published

12 hours ago

May 26, 2026

Alice Rush

Weather Guard Lightning Tech

NextEra Buys Dominion, China Outpaces Vestas

NextEra’s $67B all-stock Dominion deal targets data center alley. Plus China’s top five each outpace Vestas, and 80% of Swedish wind producers ran at a loss.

[00:00:00] The Uptime Wind Energy podcast, brought to you by StrikeTape, protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit striketape.com. And now, your hosts

Speaker 6: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy podcast. I’m your host, Allen Hall, and I’m here with three other people, Matthew Stead, Rosemary Barnes, and, uh, Yolanda Padron down in Texas. Uh, we’re all getting ready to go to American Clean Power in Houston, Texas, where it will be practically 150 degrees and 99% humidity, and we’re all looking forward to those warm, wet days that we will spend

It is very similar to New Orleans. New Orleans was also very warm and very humid. So there’s a trend going on here with American Clean Power, although we were up in Minneapolis not too long ago, uh, but I guess we were in Phoenix too, so we gotta find a middle ground, everybody. Can we go someplace like– [00:01:00] Rosemary says we should always go to the Maldives, Tahiti.

I got a lot of requests from Tahiti from people. We never go there. We never go to Hawaii.

Rosemary Barnes: I’ve suggested Hawaii so many times, and I’ve been told that Americans are not gonna be given permission from their manager to go to Hawaii.

Speaker 6: It’s kinda like Las Vegas.

Rosemary Barnes: Maybe one day we’ll make it to San Diego or something and get, um, beach adjacent facility And if your presentation is too boring, then everyone will be at the beach.

So that will be how we ensure quality control of the speakers, which is a big problem at these events now, right? Like you can’t, um, there’s– It’s more like the norm is fairly boring sales pitches rather than informative discussion.

Speaker 6: We used to have OMNS, when I say we, I mean the wind community used to have OMNS out in San Diego in Coronado at the Del Coronado is, I think that’s the hotel name.

And the one time that I went, I think I’ve been [00:02:00] there, I would say one time, uh, everybody was outside on the, at the beach, basically on the patio. So they’re holding all these talks and discussions, and it’s… I’m looking around, it’s like me and five other people. Everybody else is out there next to the water.

So they had a problem with that. So I guess what they figured, either make it really cold or make it really hot, so it forces everybody into the climate-controlled conditions of, uh, the, uh, auditorium to watch the speakers. Maybe that’s the, the plan. All right. Let’s, let’s, let’s talk about what happened with NextEra and Dominion because there’s going to be a huge merger.

So if you thought utility business was boring, it’s not anymore. NextEra announced a sixty-seven billion dollar all-stock deal to acquire Dominion Energy, a move that would create the largest regulated electricity utility in the world by market cap. Uh, [00:03:00] the combined company would serve about ten million customers accounts across Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, where I’m based, and South Carolina with one hundred and ten gigawatts of generation across renewables, nuclear, and natural gas.

Uh, but the real driver here is data centers, of course. Dominion sits in the heart of Virginia’s data center alley, where it has connected more than four hundred and fifty data centers, and NextEra is building thirty data center hubs through its NextEra Energy Resources subsidiary and has partnered with Google Cloud on paired generation campuses.

So together, they would control about a hundred and thirty gigawatts of large load pipeline. And the question is whether the regulators will let it happen. And I think that’s, having watched some of the news articles over the last several days, uh, the news broke pretty much Sunday morning or late Saturday night that this was happening and [00:04:00] The first thing that came to mind, are the regulators going to let it happen?

And the concern is going to be, and you can well imagine how this plays out, they’re going to drag Dominion and NextEra up to Washington, D.C. and berate them about how electricity rates cannot increase due to data centers. And if they don’t swear to that, then this merger won’t happen. That’s my interpretation of what’s about to happen.

It may not, but how does this play out? How does everybody else on the team at Uptime see this play out?

Matthew Stead: Seems like a good idea to me. So more economies, more geographic diversity, more opportunity for renewables.

Yolanda Padron: I can’t speak to Dominion, um, but being relatively close to the NextEra engineering team, they, they really know their stuff, right?

So I think it’s something that should kind of give us a, a sense of relief here that it, [00:05:00] it’s a big team, but it’s a really smart and competent team taking over a big undertaking.

Speaker 6: You would like to see renewables and data centers work together. This would be the perfect match of the two, right? The, the largest renewable owner management company, along with the biggest data center, uh, region.

Connecting those two would make infinite sense, but in the, our political environment today in the United States, that may be the reason to oppose it.

Matthew Stead: Yeah, why would it be a bad idea?

Speaker 6: Windmills, Matthew. Windmills. Windmills are bad. Can’t even call them wind turbines anymore. They’re windmills.

Rosemary Barnes: I used to mock people for saying windmill instead of wind turbine, but then when I moved to Denmark, um, you know, who, you know, have a firm, firm ownership of modern wind energy, or at least did back 10, 20 years ago They say windmill when they speak English.

Um, the Danish word for it is vindmølle, um, which means windmill. [00:06:00]And so I can’t… I couldn’t maintain that, that energy because like, am I gonna, am I gonna mock these, you know, like everybody at that company knew more about wind energy than I did. Am I gonna mock them for not, not knowing the difference between a windmill and a wind turbine?

No. So yeah, that’s, that’s something that I, I don’t do anymore.

Matthew Stead: That is really valuable to know, um, Rosie. I must admit, I did not know that, and I would mock people saying w- windmill, so thank you for setting me straight.

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, there are plenty of, um, plenty of people who don’t know the difference between a windmill and a wind turbine and think, “Oh, why you only got three blades with so much air between them?

You know, you’re gonna… Y- if you would just put twice as many blades, you’d get twice as many energy. Everybody who works in wind energy is just an obs- obvious complete and utter idiot.” Um, so there’s that kind of person, but then there’s also the industry. Another fun fact that they call the blades wings.

Uh, um, yeah, in Danish they call them blade wings, which they are. [00:07:00]

Speaker 6: In Spanish, isn’t it shovels? ‘Cause when I always translate those, uh, Spanish questions over to English, it always comes out shovel. At least early on, y- the early versions of Google Translate would translate it to shovel. Like, what are they talking about shovel on a wind turbine?

That doesn’t make any sense.

Yolanda Padron: Yeah, like a shovel or a stick or like a, what you row with.

Speaker 6: Oh, like an oar. Okay, that makes a lot more sense. Okay. Thank you, Yolanda.

Matthew Stead: I think it’s really interesting that, um- We don’t have much material on NextEra, Dominion. Um, yeah, we just don’t think it’s a good– We all think it’s a good idea.

There’s no controversy here.

Speaker 6: Oh, there’ll be controversy. Don’t worry about that. There’s always controversy. Welcome to America.

Matthew Stead: But among the four of us-

Speaker 6: We all think it’s great.

Rosemary Barnes: Well, it’s, um, I mean, some of the interesting facts that I read was that they’ve got 130 gigawatts of load, um, that they’re bringing to the table, and 51 gigawatts of that is contracted data centers.

So that’s, that’s interesting. [00:08:00] And I think large amounts of new data centers on the grid are controversial because in– if you’re not very, very careful about how you integrate them, then you can end up just making electricity more expensive for everybody in the area that doesn’t necessarily get, you know, profit sharing from the data center.

So, um, I think that, uh, like, you know, the wind ind- in the wind industry, we’ve obviously been through and are still in the phase of where social license, um, community acceptance is one of the most important things, maybe the most important thing when you’re developing a new project. And I think that we’re just at the start of that realization for data centers as well.

Companies that are building the, the data centers, they need to do more than what’s required of them because otherwise they have big risks of project delays. It’s millions of dollars delay, um, for the delay for, um, yeah, for every, every day that, um, a data center is held up. And so how can you afford to risk annoying anybody?

[00:09:00] You know, you just wanna be like the just, just perfect, um, addition to the community so that everybody is just happy and, and lets the project proceed. So, yeah, I thought– think that that’s, that’s quite an interesting aspect that I think I’m gonna s- we’re gonna see changing as, you know, all these planned data centers become real data centers.

There’s a real risk that everybody hates data centers soon as much as they, um, hated wind tur- um, wind farms for a while.

Yolanda Padron: For the consumer, aren’t there, like, I don’t know if they’re in Virginia, but aren’t there price caps too for the market? When you’re– When it comes to how expensive the megawatt hour is?

Speaker 6: Not necessarily. Re- remember that AEP in Ohio, uh, was requiring data centers to buy electricity at a certain amount. Because they both basically committed not to raise prices for electricity to the local communities, and that would be really hard to do. And okay, great, if, if they can pull it off, awesome.

But there’s already a lot of [00:10:00] pushback about it, and it hasn’t even gotten to the point of being real yet, so it’s only gonna get worse. I see. And all the data centers are gonna be up in space no matter what. Everybody’s talking about building data centers on the ground. There’s no shot that that’s gonna happen.

I’m just telling you, ’cause they can’t do it. They don’t– They can’t build gas turbines fast enough. There’s just limitations there, and transformers and everything else. It’s gonna be in space. It’s so much easier.

Yolanda Padron: And all the approvals you have to get and everything.

Speaker 6: It will be easier to do it in space In space, you don’t have neighbors.

Matthew Stead: I said it before, it’s just crazy. The key issue around data centers is it’s actually the transmission rather than generation. I mean, you know, at least in Australia, and correct me if I’m wrong, Rosie, but you know, less than half the price in Australia is generation. The other half is sort of retail and transmission and this and that.

And so actually, you know, the generation cost shouldn’t really increase. It’s really the transmission and the, the poles and the wires, which are the problem. And [00:11:00] you know, to your point, Rosie, social, social license for poles and wires.

Rosemary Barnes: I’m actually really surprised at Allen, ’cause normally, Allen and I have this, um, you know, we’ve played out this scenario probably 50 or 100 times over the, over the years with emerging technologies, and it’s always me that’s like, “You know what?

I think, uh, I think there’s something to this one.” Um, and Allen always poo-poos it, and in this case, Allen’s, Allen’s excited. I, I’m on Allen’s– So I also, I also think space data centers is, is a thing that’s more likely to happen than not, at least to some extent. Um, so yeah, but I think, Matt, you’ve got the more mainstream opinion.

Speaker 6: The voice of the common man. I

Yolanda Padron: think for all of our listeners out there, this is the first time Rosie and Allen agree on anything, so round of applause team.

Speaker 6: It won’t last long, Yolande.

Rosemary Barnes: It’s not true because, you know, nine out of 10 new technologies I also think are stupid. Um, so Allen and I agree on the bulk of them, but then of that one in 10, you know, nine out of 10 of those I, I [00:12:00] like and Allen doesn’t, so this is the, you know, the one-tenth of the one-tenth, so.

Speaker 6: I don’t like gas turbines. Can we all agree we don’t like gas turbines? It’s– That would be insane to scale.

Rosemary Barnes: You know what? I, I don’t have a particular problem with gas, gas turbines. I don’t want a lot of new gas turbines. Um, I guess that that’s– We can all agree on, on that. I don’t think the– I think we have most of the gas turbines that we need, or at least, um, will in the next couple of years.

And, um, yeah, I do think that their existence supports faster electrification, um, and faster growth of wind and solar. So I’m definitely not someone that wants to see all gas turbines turned off tomorrow.

Speaker 6: No, I don’t, I don’t want to turn them off. I’m

Matthew Stead: just saying you can’t get to scale.

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Matthew Stead: visit cicndt.com because catching blade problems early will save you

Speaker 6: millions.

Well, for the first time, five Chinese turbine manufacturers have all individually outpaced Danish wind giant Vestas in annual installations. Goldwind topped the global list with twenty-nine point seven gigawatts installed in twenty twenty-five. Behind them, Envision put up twenty-one point eight, Windy nineteen point eight, Mingyang at eighteen point six, and Sany at fifteen point one gigawatts.

Vestas came in [00:14:00] sixth at twelve point nine gigawatts. The Chinese dominance was fueled by an enormous domestic market that has accounted for about ninety-four percent of those five manufacturers’ sales. Uh, but exports are obviously growing out of China too. The five captured nearly sixty percent of the hundred and seventy-eight gigawatts installed globally in twenty twenty-five, a year that saw the world market grow forty percent over twenty twenty-four.

So Vestas still holds the crown for cumulative installations at two hundred and one gigawatts, but the gap in annual volume is now almost impossible to ignore. So Vestas has a lot of competition over in China. The, the amount of, uh, gigawatts coming out of the largest manufacturers in China is quite impressive, almost, well, more than double than what, uh, Vestas is doing, and Vestas is doing a pretty brisk business.

What are, what are the outcomes of this, everyone? Is, can this be sustained in China [00:15:00] for very much longer? Can they continue to, to create at, at that rate?

Rosemary Barnes: Yes. Okay, move, move on to the next segment

Speaker 6: Well, that’s a, that’s a huge amount of gigawatts coming out of China. And if 94% of it’s staying in China, eventually you run out of China to put wind turbines in.

Rosemary Barnes: They– I mean, we’re a long way from running out of places in China to put wind turbines in, because China is gigantic. A lot of it is not that populated. They’ve got a lot of offshore area still. But I just think it’s gonna follow the same playbook as, as solar probably, where you see, you know, early on heaps of domestic market, which is totally rock solid because it’s not relying on people to see a positive business case in doing it.

You know, like it’s really… You know, targets are, are really mandated and people make sure that they are met. Um, and then the incentives are also different as well. Like my understanding is that [00:16:00] there’s a lot of incentives about installation of megawatts, um, and then, you know, the, the operation is like, we’ll figure that out as we go.

The volume, the number of manufacturers that are there, they’ve got, you know, like such a great supply chain all there in the same area, so you can move fast and like I, I don’t see anything can get in the way of, you know, continuing to pump out these turbines at that speed. It’ll keep going until, you know, the government basically decides we’ve got, uh, enough wind energy now and then puts the, the brakes on it.

And, you know, that’s what we’ve just been through in solar recently. China is, um… You know, they’ve just– they’ve got a big economy and they’ve just got like rock solid resolve to follow through on, on things that they commit to. Um, whether we can, you know, argue about whether it’s a smart strategy or not, but you know that they will follow it, they will execute on, on it.

I don’t think anyone would, would say that they won’t. So I think, [00:17:00]can it continue forever? No. But do I think it can continue for another 10 years? Yes. And is that long enough to cause massive problems for any other manufacturer? I think also yes.

Matthew Stead: Hey, Rosie, can I ask you a question? You know, obviously there was some cable was proposed, you know, between Australia and Singapore.

Do you see China going in that direction? You know, putting rather than pipes with gas in it, um, pipes with electrons? Uh,

Rosemary Barnes: I don’t see China– I’m actually working on a video at the moment about a global sub-sea grid, and I just interviewed, um, uh, Xlinks, you know, that was originally a project from Morocco to the UK, and then the other one, which is super cool, um, we might have an argument about the plausibility of it, is NATO L, which is just in like early development stages.

It’s going to connect the UK to Canada. Um, and yeah, so that’s, um, a few thousand kilometers long. The ocean depth is maximum [00:18:00] three, I think, kilometers, maybe even a tiny bit more than that, um, which is like right on the edge of what is possible. N-none of those projects really actually rely on big technological improvements.

Um, they’re possible with today’s technologies. Um, but I don’t see China doing so much of that. I think that one thing that might actually stop that is that, um, when you have big interconnectors like that, I think the engineering part is not the hard, the hard part. I think that the, it’s the politics. I do see them exporting their, um, you know, they’ve got really good ultra high voltage DC technology, but the transmission lines, they have exported a little bit.

There’s some projects in Brazil that are Chinese made. There’s one in India. I don’t actually know if that is Chinese made, but you know, like I could really imagine them also rolling out projects in Africa, for example. Um, but beyond that sort of thing, I, I wouldn’t tip China as the country to, you know, develop a global [00:19:00] sub-sea grid.

Speaker 6: Do you think the low solar prices have hurt the wind manufacturers in China a little bit? Obviously, there’s a lot of solar panels that are able to be shipped immediately, which is what’s happening right now. But turbines, not so much. It’s a little harder to do. But you, you would think that a lot of these countries and communities would be putting in wind But solar is so cheap right now that, that is what is winning at the moment, and it must be hurting the Chinese wind manufacturers, you would think.

Rosemary Barnes: I don’t think they’re really in a competition with each other, um, at the moment. In Australia, I think yes. I think that, um, the, like, roaring success of solar and especially batteries is, um, making wind less appealing to develop. But globally, I think that it’s, you know, it’s a race between, um, fossil fuels and renewables.

It’s a race between energy security and continued reliance on, you know, countries that [00:20:00] you don’t really want to rely on for fossil fuels. I think that those are the, the much bigger, um, competition at the moment. It’s a bit short-sighted because, yeah, wind and solar is really easy for the, the part of the, uh, energy transition that we’re doing now, and, uh, if you just don’t build any wind until you reach the limit of solar and batteries, then you’ll find yourself quite far behind.

So that’s what we’re really struggling with in Australia and finding, like, what is the right level of government, um, support because people… You know, like in an electricity market like Australia, you’re not supposed to rely on governments, you know, planning out the system and deciding what thing to build, and I think that that has been a real strength of the Australian market that it has, you know, the government has got out of the way.

It is hard to see, um, us getting to where we need to go in a orderly fashion without some planning for this, like, lumpy middle part of the energy transition. I don’t know. What do you think, Matt? Is that how you see it in Australia as well?

Matthew Stead: Yeah, I think there’s a place [00:21:00] for everything, and, you know, wind, solar, battery is a perfect match and the right places for the right thing.

Rosemary Barnes: It’s really hard because, you know, like, when you look at the system as a whole, you know, like you plan out what, what full energy system is cheaper and better, you know. Is it the, you know, the current fossil fuel system and all of the, you know, annual maintenance and, um, improvements like, um, extensions that need to go along with that to support, you know, things like data centers and population growth, or is it the fully renewable system?

And, you know, if you look at the end state, then I don’t think that many studies or maybe any studies come to the conclusion that anything other than renewables is the, the cheaper, better system. But it’s just, it doesn’t mean that every step along the way is cheaper, and so you end up with this, yeah, like this hump in the middle that you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta get over if you wanna get from one to the other, and it’s, um, it’s complicated.

Speaker 6: I just listened to a podcast about this half an hour ago, uh, and it [00:22:00] was very contentious. And I won’t get into the details of it, but it was just one or the other. We wanna have all petroleum-based, coal-based generation in the UK, or we want zero emissions. They never got into anywhere in the middle, which is where it’s going to have to be.

So why don’t we talk about that? I– It doesn’t… The political atmosphere of the UK is, is a little unstable, as we’ve all read in the newspapers and seen online. Uh, but it, but it’s just causing the both sides to go to extremes. And on the renewable side, some of the arguments that are being made were so outlandish that I could hardly continue to listen to it.

Same thing on the gas and coal side. Like, what are we gonna do? The UK is really in a pinch. They’re gonna have to do something, and it all– as Rosemary’s pointed out, doing nothing is real ex- it’s gonna be tremendously expensive too. So there’s, there’s gonna have to be a, a reckoning somehow, but it, it’s all tied to the [00:23:00] economy at the moment.

Like most things that happen in a country, decisions are made about what’s happening right now, not what’s gonna happen five years from now.

Yolanda Padron: Right. And to your point, like countries need to protect themselves, right? Like what are you gonna do, bank on world peace?

Speaker 6: That’s a bad bet historically.

Matthew Stead: But, um, how many, how many of those charts have you seen in the last one to years where you’ve got the, the fossil fuel, say the coal generation versus renewable generation?

How many of those, um, charts have crossed over in the last few years where, you know, renewables generation is, is higher than coal generation? It’s just, it’s happening all over the world. It’s just happening, and you look at the graphs, it’s just happening.

Speaker 6: It’s less expensive, so that’s why they’re doing it.

The decision’s made with the dollar. You know, the financing and the bankers and insurance are all gonna drive that, and it’s not gonna be the decision you, the homeowner, are gonna have a lot of influence on. It’s all gonna be done at a higher level, and it’s gonna be whatever’s cheaper and whatever’s available.

Back to Rosemary’s point, [00:24:00] solar is cheap and available, people are gonna do it. Wind is cheap and available, they’re gonna choose it no matter who’s in office, right? I… Yeah, that’s the engineer talking, not the politician.

Matthew Stead: Battery, wind, and solar is only gonna get cheaper. Is, um, is, uh, gas turbines and coal gonna get cheaper?

Speaker 6: They can’t. In order to get the efficiency up where they need to, it’s gonna be super expensive, which is what we’re at today. That’s why gas turbines are s- you can’t mass produce them, and that’s why they cost so much money. It’s a great business if you sell a couple a year. You can’t sell thousands of them.

There’s just not a way to do that. As wind energy professionals, staying informed is crucial, and let’s face it, difficult. That’s why the Uptime podcast recommends PES Wind magazine. PES Wind offers a diverse range of in-depth articles and expert insights that dive into the most pressing issues facing our energy future.

Whether you’re an industry veteran or new to wind, PES Wind has the high-quality content you need. Don’t miss [00:25:00] out. Visit peswind.com today. Over in Sweden, they built all the wind farms, and here at Weather Guard we’ve talked to a number of operators over in Sweden, so has EOLOGIX-PING, uh, and the– So but the wind farms and the customers haven’t really showed up, and researchers in Sweden have analyzed two hundred and forty-four Swedish wind power producers owning more than about thirty-seven hundred turbines covering eighty-five percent of the country’s total wind generation.

So it’s a pretty large study. They found that eighty percent were effectively operating at a loss in twenty twenty-four. The total sector losses reached six point three billion Swedish kronor, uh, about six hundred and twenty million euros. The sector’s profit margins fell to a negative fifty-one percent.

That’s right, negative fifty-one percent. Uh, and here’s the real paradox. Although wind production actually [00:26:00] rose from thirty-four point two to forty point six terawatt-hours, revenues fell for the first time in at least six years. Uh, the more they produced, the less they earned. And the real culprit is overcapacity.

So they have so many turbines up in northern Sweden, uh, that it’s driving the energy prices down, much like Australia. Uh, and the missing link is obviously transmission because it is big demand to the south. It’s just getting the power there. Vattenfall alone lost eight hundred and seventy million euros in its wind business in twenty twenty-four, and one of its subsidiaries curtailed seventeen percent of the potential production because of, uh, shutting the turbines down was less expensive than selling into negative prices, which would make sense.

So the price has gotten so low in Sweden that it’s better just to turn the turbine off and, and eat the loss than to generate power at a, at a negative price. This is a common theme [00:27:00] as wind has grown, and solar for the same matter, is that when you have so much of it, the price of electricity will drop.

And until you can get that power out to other areas that has high demand It becomes a losing proposition. How does this play out? Will the– Now will countries finally take transmission seriously and start to even out the grid? Is that where we’re going?

Yolanda Padron: I mean, I hope so. The idea of curtailing potential energy isn’t something new, right?

It happens here in Texas all the time. It happens in a lot of places all the time, um, just to, to not overflow the grid. And it makes sense, but it doesn’t make sense too much, at least to me, that in the same country you have parts of it where you have an electricity surplus and negative pricing, and other parts of it where you just, you don’t have enough energy for the whole, uh, region, right?

So, uh, I really hope they take it a bit more seriously than they, than they currently are.

Matthew Stead: Uh, I think the interesting thing about Sweden is [00:28:00]that they’ve got a lot of hydro as well, and so those two things tie together. Um, you know, much like Australia, we’re building the, like the largest in the Southern Hemisphere, um, hydro scheme, and, um, maybe that’s part of the missing puzzle is the actual, the storage element.

So if they had more pumped hydro, you know, they could, um, perhaps store that excess energy and then, then reuse it. But, you know, unless there’s no pipes from the north to the south, you know, that’s not gonna help anyone.

Speaker 6: Hydro is expensive. The more recent news articles I’ve seen about pumped hydro is it’s way less expensive to put in wind or put in solar or put in some batteries than to do pumped hydro projects.

It’s complicated. It’s a lot of construction, obviously, and, uh, the pumps and the equipment are not cheap. So, uh, yeah, so although if you do have hydro and it’s currently running, you would leave that alone, but I think some of the newer pumped hydro projects probably won’t happen. Even if they’re on the– have [00:29:00] been planned and, and even started, I think they’re really reevaluating that it’s probably cheaper to do batteries.

Matthew Stead: In Australia, in Snowy 2.0, I think the original budget was, was it 3 billion? And now it’s up to 12 to 15 billion.

Rosemary Barnes: Anybody that was working on that would’ve known that the price was very likely to blow out because that particular project has a really long tunnel. The two reservoirs that, like the reservoirs were existing, so you think, okay, that’s good, you save money.

But the expensive part of pumped hydro is the tunneling and then, and it’s a very long tunnel. Um, and it’s just so super predictable that when you have a super long tunnel, you one, increase the cost a lot, but two, increase the risk of a massive cost blowout. So I think it’s not a good predictor of, of projects as some other ones that are, that are happening.

I think the biggest problem with hydro is that, um, the project lives are so long, like 100 years e- easily, [00:30:00] but that doesn’t mean anything in today’s dollars, y- you know? So it’s like no one can, no company is gonna assign any value to the electricity they’re gonna generate in 100 years time, you know? So it’s, um, it, it’s really hard for it to stack up to, as a project today unless it’s a government doing it.

Matthew Stead: But I mean, once Snowy 2.0 is done, it will still be reasonably cost-effective as a long-term storage source.

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. If it had been made on time, then I think it would’ve, it would’ve been a real enabler for the energy transition for getting heaps of wind and solar. But it wasn’t done on time, and we barely we- storage isn’t our problem right now.

We have actually got lots of, of storage. That’s not what’s stopping people from building projects. So, um, I think it is a bit of a shame.

Speaker 6: Back to your point, Rosemary, how old hydro is in terms of electricity generation. I, I went to go look up when Niagara River, Niagara Falls in, in the States first [00:31:00] started producing power, 1895.

That’s how long we’ve been using water power in the States to create electricity. Hoover Dam, which also does something very similar, is in the 1930s, 1935, ’36, around that timeframe. So it’s almost been 100 years there too, 90 years. Yeah. It’s, it’s amazing. So you don’t plan for those, those pieces of, uh, infrastructure to run that long, but they do.

That wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy podcast. And if today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you found value in today’s conversation, please leave us a review.

It really helps other wind energy professionals discover the show. For Rosie, Yolanda, and Matthew, I’m Allen Hall, and we’ll see you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy [00:32:00] podcast.