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Standardizing Rain Erosion Testing Results with Wind Power LAB’s Rocky Software

Rocky, a cloud-based software developed by Wind Power LAB is helping to standardize the analysis of rain erosion test data for wind turbine coatings. By precisely annotating damage progression in test photos, Rocky eliminates human variability in interpreting results and generating accurate velocity vs. impact (V-N) curves. This innovative tool promises to improve coating durability predictions, reduce operational costs, and accelerate rain erosion solutions for the wind industry. Visit https://windpowerlab.com/ for more info!

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Allen Hall: Welcome to the special edition of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m Allen Hall, and I’m in San Diego, warm San Diego with at ACP OM&S and I’m here with Anders Røpke, who is this founding partner and CEO of Wind Power LAB based in Copenhagen, Denmark. Welcome to the show.

Anders Røpke: Thank for the invitation.

Allen Hall: So we’re gonna have a really technical discussion, but a really timely discussion. Yeah, about rain erosion and rain erosion testing. I was just over in Denmark, went to DTU, saw the Leading Edge Erosion Conference. Fascinated, great speakers, a lot of great data. One of the main discussion points was when you run a rain erosion test on a particular coating for a wind turbine, there’s a lot of variability.

And the holy grail is to get what they call a V N curve for a coating. That’s the velocity versus the number of impacts. You should be able to draw roughly a straight line. Okay. When I was over at Copenhagen, and watching all this go on, there’s a lot of slides up about V in curves where the V in curve was up and down.

The tilt of it was all over the place. When they had done testing at different rain erosion facilities, or had tested in the same erosion facility on the same kind of sample. Getting what they thought was a different result. Now, that seems to be driven by in part, the human element. Exactly. Everything about that test is pretty well controlled and the people at R&D test systems, which designed those rain erosion rigs have made a really nice machine.

Let’s just be honest. It’s a really good machine. But as when PowerLab is determining, the issue is looking at the photos of the damage and then saying, Oh, here’s where damage starts. And this is how it propagates. That’s a human element problem that’s added to this very technical decision making. We’re making errors there.

And that’s where Wind Power LAB comes in. And at Wind Power LAB, you guys are blade experts, right?

Anders Røpke: We are blade experts. So we are actually coming from the field observation side, if you like. So we see the products when they fail. Sorry to bring the bad news, but we see leading edge erosion out there still, even though we have big LEP campaigns.

Yeah. And one thing is the application, it’s a hard environment to turn out offshore, for instance. But we also see coatings fail earlier than anticipated. And the long term effect is a lot of unnecessary cost for these wind farm owners. Because then they’re looking into yet one more LEP campaign.

Through the end of, before the end of life of this wind farm. That’s extremely expensive. Onshore, but it’s maybe 20 times more expensive offshore. It is. So if we should fix this. We should. We should. Then why don’t we try to test our products a little bit better?

And that’s where the Leading Edge Erosion Symposium you visited.

It’s really good. We get some focus on this. Oh, yeah. Because you look at the, at all the erosion test thing that is going on with our partners R&D.

Allen Hall: Yes.

Anders Røpke: You have the most sophisticated machine. You can control the droplet size, the speed and whatnot. It’s magnificent. And then it is the tons of data coming out of the system will have to be processed by some highly skilled experts, right?

Test engineers. And here the trouble starts, right? Because if we are the test engineers, you are getting your 200, 000 pictures in from the test, right? It’s fairly expensive to run the test. I look at the same data. I will almost, I’m almost certain that I can promise you that we will not get the same results.

So that means if you produce one VN curve, I’ll produce another one. Somebody Third parties should select which one is the right one. And that is what we base our product on.

Allen Hall: It is. It’s, there’s literally millions of dollars going in per year on rain erosion coatings based upon the data and the published data on the VN curves.

Anders Røpke: So when you invest in a leading edge shell, protection shell like this is something we bought from our friends at Polytech, then it’s a matter of the durability. So when will this start eroding? That’s what you basically test in a erosion test. The VN curve tells you something about when that time is, right?

Yes. And if we are incorrect, because we have some accuracy issues in our assessment between the two of us, then the durability of this product may not be better. Oh, it could be better. It could be worse. It could be worse. We don’t know. That’s the whole point.

Allen Hall: Yeah.

Anders Røpke: So with the software here. Then we assisting our leading edge protection developers or manufacturers in handling all the many thousand hours of tests coming through and tons of data.

It’s organized. You can share your your test between inside your test department, right? And then you can go first and do your test down to my test. We can do an overlay. And from that, you can actually see that we agree, right? Because we have. A more accurate view on when we start to see the erosion for the first time.

In here, you mark up with small polygons around the various items from the test results. Yes. And you should have the same picture as, or the same results as I should.

Allen Hall: Wind Power LAB has developed this piece of software. Yeah. It’s based in the cloud. It’s called Rocky, like Rocky Balboa. And what it does is it takes all those photographs from the rain erosion test.

So as the rain erosion test proceeds, it runs for a little while, then it stops and they take a high resolution photo. They started back up again. They continue the count, right? So there you have a series of photos showing increasing levels of damage over time. But the issue is How do you track that VN curve from those images?

That’s where the human element has to come in and a lot of times if they’re not using a Rocky type system They’re actually using like Excel or PowerPoint to sort through all these photos and go Oh, it was at minute 52 that this issue started that is highly interpretive.

Anders Røpke: And today we see that happening, right?

We see clients with spreadsheets and PowerPoints. And they’re really doing their best. The problem is I cannot reproduce your test result, right?

Allen Hall: Which is the ultimate point of a test. It should be reproducible. Otherwise, something is wrong with the test setup.

Anders Røpke: So we have tried to standardize. The way you should annotate in here, yes.

Not annotate, but mark up with polygons track when certain track and when something happens, you can play back and forth inside your time series to get even more accurate, the assessment results. Yeah. And by doing that we will actually be able to, the two of us will be able to come up with the same test result.

Allen Hall: So the results out of the Rocky system have been, from what I’ve seen, remarkable. Because I didn’t think the human element had played that much into the, to the results. It is, you get wide differences in basically the same test data. So if we had the same data set in front of two engineers going through it, they would pick different VN curves out of that same set of data.

That’s a problem for the industry. It is.

Anders Røpke: And then, And it’s very costly as well.

Allen Hall: It’s super costly.

Anders Røpke: Or it could be even better to ability, right?

Allen Hall: So it could go both ways. Sure. Because you ever, what the, what happens with those VN curves is that if I’m an operator, I have a rough idea of the number of water impacts of, at my site, because I track that.

It’s one of the things I track. So then I know okay, I’m going to have X many raindrops hit this material over time, therefore I have a lifetime of X. And. If that VN curve is wrong, I could be overpaying for a material. I could be having material that just fails too early again, overpaying for this thing.

So it’s a cost issue for the operator at the end of the day. And then the operators are struggling because from what I could tell, and I’m not an operator, but if I were an operator, it’d be really confused right now on rain erosion products, because we’re at ACP OMS and I run into four or five different providers of coatings.

Here, and they all saying the same thing to me, but when I talk to the operators, they say, no, like this one works in our site and that one didn’t. Yeah.

And it’s a consistency on the engineering side.

Anders Røpke: It is, but it’s not only on, the test side, but it’s definitely also on the application side out.

Sure. Oh, sure. Sure. So I’m not saying that we have a poor products on the market. I’m just saying that we need to step it up on the testing side so we sure get the correct VN curves.

Allen Hall: We need to test the variability. Exactly. But the problem is if we interpret the photos incorrectly, we don’t have any data.

We can’t make any heads or tails of that. We don’t have, we can’t sort draw on the line. Exactly. That is a huge problem. Yeah, and I think that’s where, based upon the , the number of doctorate students, ed, who really educated people that are working the rain erosion issue. Andres, you’re right. The application is really key, but also just being able to interpret the data.

It’s just a huge learning and there really isn’t any tools to them.

Anders Røpke: And then being able to share those results and reproduce those results. So we have a proper workflow that I’ll quality check your work, your analysis, and I can reproduce it. Then we are aligned and following a standardized way. That’s the dream.

It is. This is a, ladies and gentlemen, this is Lean and Six Sigma. It’s not something new. Any other industry would test their products like this.

Allen Hall: So you should be able to take the same coding to two different, essentially R&D test systems, Rainrose facilities, they’re all in Europe, and get the same results out of both sites.

Yes. That is the goal. You can’t do that today. No.

Anders Røpke: At least then it’s based on luck. Yeah. That you hit the same number inside your spreadsheets, for instance. Or whatever system you’ve developed. And then then of course we can do this for all kinds of rain erosion test facilities. And we can do this not just only for what is applied in the wind industry.

I pray for that we get some more proper testing inside the aerospace.

Allen Hall: Aerospace needs it horribly bad.

Anders Røpke: Yes, they do. That’s sad news in my ears. Yeah, that’s true.

Allen Hall: Because it’s a difficult problem. They have, the aerospace has the same problem that wind turbine engineers have. is what do you do with all this data?

How do I interpret it? Every engineer interprets it different. If you, it’s hard to be independent, especially if it’s your coding, and you’re the designer of the coding, and you’re going through the photos, you want to lean towards, ah, this is working better. It’s hard. You got to take that human element out of it to really get down to the raw data, and that, that has been the hurdle.

Rocky, though, gets rid of that, right? Rocky, takes that data, even old data. So the data you have been sitting on for two or three years in the past, you can actually put it through the Rocky system and say, okay, the real VN curve is this. So not even on, you don’t have to repeat the test.

Anders Røpke: No, where you can reuse your data if you like.

And optimize your quality in hindsight and then know where you are. Maybe you are in a really strong position. You can have the great material. Just, I know it. Let’s hope for it for us. And, but going forward. Then your entire test engineering team will have the same tool available.

If somebody leaves the company, it’s still in here. It’s still there. Yeah. And as we know from the Rocky movies, it does Rocky one, two, three, and so forth. So this is Rocky one, and now we’re generating a lot of data. And of course we are also AI side of things because all this annotation will eventually be automated.

So our test engineers can focus that time on, optimizing. And making it even more accurate in here, so you get even more accurate VN curves, right? Nobody enjoys watching these tons of images just day in and day out. No. Let’s try to, in Rocky 2, get that one fixed.

Allen Hall: Just get it yeah, as you accumulate more data in the system, that is obviously going to occur, so it’s going to get smarter as you go along.

But in terms of going back and using old data, so I can put my existing data, upload it to the cloud. process it with the Rocky system, get a better data right there. So now obviously codings have evolved. I can start comparing codings. I have, I probably have a lot of data that I can upload to Rocky, a lot of photos.

I can go track each one of them. I can start getting now real VN curves out of it. And now I have a better understanding. And as a manufacturer of a coding, now I can really help my customers say, if you have a, Site where there’s a lot of rain. You want to use this coding because they’ll usually offer more than one coding, or if I have maybe a sandy territory, I want to go to use this coding, but I think from the operator side, also, the operators are starting to go back and do some of the testing on their own and say, okay, I have this curve, I’m not really sure I want to verify, I want to verify this, but they have the same problem.

They need to have a system to go through that data logically. So they can get a true set.

Anders Røpke: Exactly. So if if you can share maybe then as an operator, you would pay for your own tests, right? Maybe you should do that. If you have a probably should have fit 10, 000 turbines and quite a huge investment in doing this, right?

Sure. So making sure that the durability is anticipated. So you can start planning for those LEP campaigns and not get surprised that you need to add one more in.

Allen Hall: Yeah. I do think the R&D test systems, rain erosion test rigs are. As good as they’re ever going to get. The technology, the one I saw at DTU is amazing.

So the technology on the test side is there. But, yeah, we just haven’t figured out the human element and eliminated it. It’s good that Wind Power LAB has stepped into that void. Because you’re Blaine experts. And you understand what’s happening out there. And you can correlate it. So now that you’re creating this data set, you guys will have a data set of these different codings, in a sense.

And plush. You have a lot of people out in the field reporting back this blade has this issue, that blade has this issue, this coating has this issue. It should start to correlate back to the data set, right? The VN curves should start to match. And feed into the innovation process of the next generation of products.

We’re moving too slow on rain erosion.

Anders Røpke: And then last but not least, this project here, or the software, this project here, Something we have commercialized now and it’s available for anyone in the industry that would like to, use it. It is something that started in a grain funded project back home in Denmark between the Technical University of Denmark and R&D Systems.

Okay. So it’s actually a good use of innovation funding. Sure. Came all the way out to the marketplace as a tool you can buy and have on subscription.

Allen Hall: It’s actionable information, which is needed today across the world. There’s two problems in the world and wind turbines, mostly.

Lightning and rain erosion. Okay. And sometimes rain erosion is more than lightning, but those are the two. Yeah. Danny Ellis from Sky Specs told me years ago, every wind turbine has rain erosion problems, every one of them. And I think that is going away, but until we have better data and people start using the Rocky system to evaluate their photos and their damage, we’re just not going to solve this problem.

It’s just going to continue on.

Anders Røpke: And eventually this could be what will save maybe one or two leading edge protection campaigns. In an offshore scenario, we have clients in Netherlands, for instance, where they save like millions in vessel costs.

Allen Hall: Oh, easy.

Anders Røpke: Because they could, get rid of some part of the scope because they were actually able to pinpoint which of the turbines that were in need of a LEP coating.

Yeah. That case could have been even better if the durability on these products applied were actually as anticipated and planned.

Allen Hall: Yeah. So the engineering results in the LAB have to match what happens in the field.

Anders Røpke: Exactly.

Allen Hall: It has to happen that way. So how do people get in contact with Wind Power LAB to evaluate Rocky and take a look at it, maybe throw some images up on the Rocky cloud?

Anders Røpke: Yeah, so you can look me up at LinkedIn, of course, and connect. I’m happy to connect with anyone that invites me. Or go to wind power app.com. Yeah. And you will find a contact phone. We’ll be in touch , and you can see our phone number. Come and visit us in Denmark or invite us for a meeting. We are happy to.

Allen Hall: How fast could they implement that system? They give you the phone calls, the auditors, Hey, I’m ready for this. Give the demo how soon before you can hook ’em up and run through it.

Anders Røpke: Basically, we need to create a use account. That’s it. That’s it.

Allen Hall: Wow.

Anders Røpke: Of course, they need to have a, the RainyMotion data.

Allen Hall: They have the photos. Yeah. Okay. But as fast as they can upload them, it’s as fast as you can process.

Anders Røpke: And of course, then a proper introduction to the tool.

Allen Hall: Sure. Sure. A little bit of training. Yeah. But that’s it. It’s pretty user, you guys make great software. So it’s pretty much user intuitive things.

Yeah. So no problem with that.

Anders Røpke: And yeah, then we could discuss, another topic would be that the test results. We could open up and do maybe joint innovation on products and that whole deal, but it’s not like we’re sharing your results with anyone else.

Allen Hall: No, but hey, if you’re working with WinPowerLab, there’s a lot of smart people working there and they understand that issue.

They can help with the codings. And plus we have seen real life. Yeah. Does it make sense? It gives good advice, which is what we need. We need some good advice. Ander, this is fantastic. This is a really, this is a really innovating piece of software and it’s going to be used and it already is being used at GTU and R&D test systems.

But anybody that has an R&D test system rig can use it. Anybody who has R&D test system data can use it today.

Anders Røpke: Yeah.

Allen Hall: Amazing.

Anders Røpke: So if you have a test system with R&D today, then reach out to R&D colleagues as well. Yes. Or contacts and then we can get in touch that way as well.

Allen Hall: Wow. That’s fantastic. Anders, thanks so much for being on the program.

This is fantastic.

Anders Røpke: Thank you very much.

Standardizing Rain Erosion Testing Results with Wind Power LAB’s Rocky Software

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What Operators Want to Hear at WOMA 2027

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What Operators Want to Hear at WOMA 2027

Two days of operator meetings in Melbourne shape the WOMA 2027 agenda, from performance upgrades and cable faults to foundations and bolts.

The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast is brought to you by Weather Guard Lightning Tech, creators of the StrikeTape Ultra LPS retrofit. Subscribe to Uptime’s Substack newsletter. And check out Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” Youtube channel. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!

Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy podcast. I’m your host, Allen Hall. I’m here with Matthew Stead and Rosemary Barnes. And Rosemary, where are we?

Rosemary Barnes: We’re in Melbourne, and we have been visiting future attendees and sponsors and people interested in, in the event to see what topics that we should be talking about.

What are the hot topics of the moment?

Allen Hall: Which is a very interesting two days, Matthew, in that, uh, we h- did meet with a number of operators based in Australia, but, uh, they’re also very worldly. They have talked to companies all over about operations and, and maintenance, and there are some really eye-opening topics- Mm

that will be- Mm … at WOMA 2027 this year.

Matthew Stead: Yeah. The thing that was interesting for me was [00:01:00]that actually the topics have changed each year. So, um, they’re evolving and the industry’s continuing to, to do better, and so that, that was really interesting. Performance upgrades was probably one of the big areas of, of new interest, I think.

I think we heard with the pressure on pricing, uh, the market and so forth, you know, that, that 1% or 2% now is becoming more important. Um, so I think, uh, upgrades will definitely feature quite a lot. Um, balance of plant was also a big topic. Um, you just can’t ig- ignore the, um, transmission, you can’t ignore the transformers, you can’t ignore, uh, condensers and all these sorts of things, so yeah.

Rosemary Barnes: Cables.

Matthew Stead: Cables.

Rosemary Barnes: Terminations. Terminations of cables. Specifically raised several times.

Allen Hall: Yep. Yeah. It’s all about being more efficient, uh, getting more production, and then with the PPA prices, uh, that are changing-

Matthew Stead: Mm …

Allen Hall: rapidly, uh, everybody is paying more attention to the bottom line.

Matthew Stead: Mm, mm.

Allen Hall: Absolutely. There, there’s less cash running around, uh, chasing new development.

It’s [00:02:00] more of a focus on making sure your, at least your existing assets are performing as, as well as they can be- Mm … which then opens up the, uh, Pandora’s box of opportunity. Mm. Because there are 1%’s all around a wind turbine. More specifically, uh, all the drive train issues, the blade issues, the generator issues, and even going into the substation.

Mm. I, I was really shocked on BOP e- the, the one topic that came up, uh, yesterday and today was buried cables. Mm. Like-

Matthew Stead: Faults …

Allen Hall: faults.

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Junctions. Finding- Yeah … finding faults and what to do about them. Yeah. Yeah. But I think in addition to just wanting more revenue, I think people have, are getting more sophisticated about what actually matters and then the finances.

You know, everyone’s focused so much on availability, and now people- Mm … are like, okay, yeah, like once you’re at a certain level of availability, gets harder and harder to get more. And actually, you know, not all availability is equal. Is good. It, it [00:03:00] depends. Yeah. Yeah, like you wanna, um, you wanna focus on how much you’re generating at the times when electricity prices are high specifically, which usually means during lower wind speed periods.

Yeah. Which is actually good because that matches really well with what is actually possible. It’s, it’s hard to get more power out of the turbine if it’s at, you know, its rated power, then you’re not g- More efficiency is not gonna get you any more, um, power output, whereas lower in the power curve- Mm … um, when wind speeds are lower, there’s less electricity in the grid and so prices are higher.

And so- Mm … yeah, I mean, that’s, that’s why people are really asking to know more about what efficiency upgrades are possible, better ways to operate, scheduled maintenance, um, all those sorts of things. Mm. So that will be really interesting.

Matthew Stead: Raising the bar on sophistication. Um, but also life extension

Allen Hall: Yes, a lot of discussion about life extension

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, end of life and life extension End of life Yeah, um-

Matthew Stead: Foundations, structures Which is

Allen Hall: tied to PPA.

Mm. A lot of that [00:04:00] discussion I, at least I looked at it as, uh, if I had a PPA and I can continue with that PPA with an existing turbine, I want to do that. Mm,

Matthew Stead: mm,

Allen Hall: mm. But how do I do that and how do I know that that existing turbine can last another five years? It seemed to go in five-year blocks, like can we get to another five years and then another and then, then another.

Wow.

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Once you get to 20, 20, 25 years, I think people like, uh, they, you know- It’s getting a little- Their original agreement might have been for 20, then they kind of just assume that there will be another five, and then after that they’re- Yeah … kind of reassessing cyclically and yeah, I know that people make plans for, you know, what components are replaceable, what would they have to get in, and I think that sometimes, uh, people doing those plans aren’t as familiar with the, you know, actual technical issues that are being faced.

Like, is a blade a replaceable component? It may be early on in the life it sort of is, not easily, but you know, like a 25-year-old wind turbine, you know, good luck trying to order 10 new blades because you’ve got a, you know, an issue that’s-

Allen Hall: Oh, well you, you need to read the news. Did you [00:05:00] see the news today about, uh, the, the wooden wind turbine blades as a replacement for aged blades?

That, that’s happening- … in real time, Rosa.

Rosemary Barnes: Okay. I know they- Yeah. Yep, yep. Okay. Okay. So that, that’s, that’s good. Making carbon new blade. E- even so, I don’t think that they’re- Okay. … gonna be, like, super-duper cheap, so you’re still gonna wanna be, um, doing a trade-off between y- you know, like, what kind of repairs.

You might be able to change the way you’re operating to reduce loads. Um, you might be able to monitor to make sure that your blades are safe. You know, if you know that there’s an issue, um, you just wanna get some advanced warning before blades start falling off your, your tower. Mm. You know, and then you can push it further.

Yeah. Whereas if you’ve got no information, then you have to be conservative and shut it down. Yeah. So yeah, I think there’s a whole lot that can be g- can be done there in that area.

Matthew Stead: There was a point that came up today, which I think was close to your heart, on, you know, if you’re going to be going for 1% or 2% or 0.5% AEP improvement, how do you actually measure that and how do you set up a proper experiment?

So-

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah …

Matthew Stead: I, I, I love that topic. [00:06:00]

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. No, it’s one that I, um, yeah, I deal with m- my clients I, I’m often… It’s one of the things that Pablo really loves to do, is to organize trials of that nature of new technologies and see if they work. But, um, yeah, asset managers are usually very, uh, focused on fast results.

You know, they’ve got a, a big problem and they want a solution now, so they wanna just roll out the new technology over an entire wind farm. But if you do that, then it’s almost impossible. Unless you get, like, a huge benefit, like, uh, 10% gains or, you know, like reduce your failures by 50% or more, it’s really hard to actually- Mm

pick that out if you just replace everything. Mm. Whereas if you do a really, really good, um, trial plan- Systematic. Yeah … and you match pairs very well so that you have, you know, a control for each turbine and there’s- so many variables in a wind farm. It’s not, it’s not as easy as just, like, randomly choosing 50% to do and not do.

Mm. Mm. Mm. Like, you have to, you know, put some work into the trial design, and then, you know, like, do your statistical calculations ahead of time to know how long it’s gonna take you to get s- statistical [00:07:00]significance. So then you don’t just have a gut feeling about- Yep … how something went. You’ve actually got numbers, and then you can take those numbers to, you know, other wind farms that you’ve got- Yeah

and, and know what’s going on much better.

Matthew Stead: Worst study is an inconclusive study.

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Yeah, that’s true. Definitely.

Allen Hall: Well, that comes back to the data analysis- Mm … which a lot of operators mentioned, and how much data there is and what to do with it, and it did seem like a couple of operators have chosen some AI tools, varying degrees, all the way down from Microsoft Copilot to something much more complicated.

Uh, but I think there’s, uh, getting that d- to the last 1, 2, 3%, you’re going to need those tools- Absolutely … because what do you choose? Do you choose a blade? Do you choose a gearbox? Do you choose a generator? Do you go to the substation to get that percentage point or two Without having some really powerful tools- Mm.

you may be wasting your time [00:08:00] and money.

Matthew Stead: Mm.

Allen Hall: Which is a, a, a very interesting, uh, aspect to wind energy because it’s such an industrial business that, uh, we haven’t used heavy computational tools, uh, un- until really now.

Matthew Stead: Mm.

Allen Hall: And maybe Australia’s at the forefront because of the PPA and negative pricing is that that will, uh, actually lead an industry.

Because I haven’t seen a lot of that being used globally. Mm. So this is the first time an operator- Mm … that I’ve talked to has said, “We’re using it.”

Matthew Stead: Yeah. It’s quite a different discussion, um, I think, you know, this year compared to previous years in that I think in the past it was getting to know what’s possible, but now it’s like real case studies are coming through.

And a few of the people had some really good examples that we can talk about at the conference as to how they’ve actually been helped and how they did this and what the outcome was. I think, yeah, that would be really great content on that.

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. I think it’s gonna be a good mix of people who have used third party tools and have experience with it, people that are doing it in-house and can share- Mm

some of the kinds of results- Mm … that, that you can get just from analyzing your own- Mm … [00:09:00] SCADA data. Um, people talking about how they get the data that they want. Mm. ‘Cause it’s not always so easy. You would think that, you know, you own a wind turbine, you have a right to have all of the data that comes through it, but it’s not.

Um, even if you do technically have a right, it’s, uh, it, it’s harder to actually get it than you might think. Mm. So yeah, sharing all, all those kinds of things. But I think also, like just as important as talking about the successes is talking about the, the gaps that– people still feel lots of gaps. Like, okay, we’ve got all the data, we’re collecting it.

We know that there’s so much potential here- Mm … but we don’t really- Mm … know what we can do, or it’s hard for us to, you know- Mm … make headway in this particular pain point. And that is really useful for companies that are developing tools to know what are the, the problems. Mm. Because then they can e- you know, they’re well placed to fix them.

Allen Hall: Mm. Which leads to the discussion we had with the operators and, uh, some of the suppliers for WOMA 2027. There’s a lot of interest. And as we’re sitting in the conference rooms, I’m thinking, we may not have enough room to [00:10:00] seat everybody. Uh, the WOMA 2027 website is up and running, and you can register now.

So just go to woma2027.com and get started there. At the same point, we’ve had a lot of contact with, uh, pretty much everybody that wants to sponsor the event, and there’s only a limited number of ways to sponsor. So if you’re interested in doing that, you, you need to go to woma2027.com and look at those, uh, part- particular packages and see what- Mm

fits your, your business. Uh- Going back to some of the, the comments we were just discussing downstairs about what we heard at 2026, like, which is only a couple of months ago, right? It’s back in February this year. Uh, there’s, they’re still discussing what happened at WOMA 2026- Mm. Which was very fascinating- Mm

because I think Rosemary, you and I have been to conferences that I have not thought an iota … about what happened at those conferences. Just nothing interesting does occur. There’s no new, new information, there’s [00:11:00] no new science, there’s no new operator approaches.

Rosemary Barnes: Mm.

Allen Hall: But we’re gonna see a number of those- Yeah.

Mm … come next March.

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Well, I think it’s partly because I don’t know what other conference organizers do, but, you know, we’ve had a exhausting few days here. You’ve come all the way from America, obviously, and, and Claire as well, also come over, our producer. Um, so, y- you know, like, we’re working really hard to make sure that the topics…

Like, it’s not an accident that the topics are ones that people are talking about later, because we come here to make sure that we get the right topics. And it’s not just these meetings as well. People get in touch, and- Mm … anybody watching, listening, who has, you know, something that they wanna talk about, then definitely, you know, send us a message, and yeah, we’re working on the agenda.

We’ll, we’ll have a draft agenda in the next couple of weeks based on what we’ve learned here, but then we’ve got the hard job of it’s not just that you have a really interesting topic, you need to have a really great speaker- Yeah … or several really great speakers, usually covering several different aspects of the problem.

You know, maybe it’s, uh, yeah, an asset [00:12:00] owner, an OEM, and some, some technology provider, you know, all together giving different, um, yeah, perspectives. That’s, I think, what makes a really great session. Mm. So yeah, we need the ideas for the sessions, and we also need the ideas for great speakers.

Matthew Stead: Yeah.

Rosemary Barnes: Right.

Matthew Stead: Yeah. I think we’ve, we’ve already matched a few of those dots, so- Yeah … I, we’ve heard people asking for certain topics they wanna hear about, and then we’ve heard other operators saying, “Well, this is what we could talk about.” So I think we’ve already-

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, yeah … got some great

Matthew Stead: progress.

Rosemary Barnes: It was, it was interesting ’cause we, we built up a list of, you know-

Matthew Stead: Yeah

Rosemary Barnes: frequently raised topics, and then you’d say it to the next person that you went to- Mm … and they’re like, “Oh, that’s not a problem for us because we’ve done X, Y, Z.” And you’re like, “Okay. Well, excellent. You can, you can present the solutions that we know that other people- Yeah. Yes … are, are looking for.” Yeah.

So it has been… Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s definitely worthwhile coming, as, as tiring as it is. Yeah. Um, definitely worthwhile, and we’ll get a much better agenda for the- Yeah … for the effort.

Matthew Stead: And I think, I mean, it has been tiring. Um, but what, what made it for me was one of the operators said that [00:13:00] this is the only conference they will go to So I think, I think we’re doing the right thing.

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Yeah. I, I think so. I understand too, like, you know, all of us, we kind of are forced to go to events because that’s where our, our clients and customers are, and so you need to see them. And yeah, like I’ve even gone to the extent of some events where I don’t particularly like the event, but I know everyone’s going.

Mm. I just go and sit near the event for a couple of days and meet people at a cafe. So yeah, like we can’t get away from it. But if you’re an asset manager or, um, yeah, somebody in that kind of type of work, like you’ve got better things to do than listen to sales pitches aggressively thrown at you that aren’t relevant- Yeah

to what you’re doing. So, um, yeah. Like I, I definitely love to hear that kind of feedback- Yeah … and wanna make sure that we get it every, every year. Like that’s- It’s, it’s

Matthew Stead: encouraging.

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah … yeah, that’s, that’s the point of the conference, so.

Matthew Stead: Yeah.

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah.

Matthew Stead: The other big topic was we would really love more OEM involvement.

Um-

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Everybody wants more- … a lot of the operators- … OEM involvement- Yeah … all of the asset owners.

Matthew Stead: Yeah.

Rosemary Barnes: Like we want to [00:14:00] hear from OEMs more, have them there. Um, so yeah, we’re, we’ll be trying to To get those sorted

Allen Hall: Well, WOMA is a global conference, although it’s Australia-based and there’s a, a number of Australian operators.

There are Danish, Americans, uh, plenty of Europeans. Uh, we’re gonna see some from Southeast Asia, I think, this year. Mm-hmm. And, and Japan hopefully will come. Uh, because it’s a, it’s a global conference, there’s global knowledge- Mm … and wind is such a big industry. You may not have the solution in the United States, it may be sitting in Australia, and we need to exchange those ideas.

Mm. And that, that’s the point. So w- we are continuing to look for those world experts as we have received all the inputs of these are all the topics we wanna go hear about. Great. Now it’s on us three to go find some of those world experts and, and try to get them to Melbourne. Yeah. And I, I think that’s a great opportunity.

So if we do call you and ask you to participate in WOMA [00:15:00] 2027, please take it seriously because- Mm … you will be bombarded with great questions- Mm … and contacts and information. Uh, it’s an event you won’t wanna miss. Yeah. And- But I would- … there’s opportunity there.

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. I’d say we’re, we’re prioritizing OEMs, um, to, to get more participation, ideally to speak, but at least to be there.

And we have heard from multiple asset owners in Australia that they want, they, they want to know what are some of the upgrades that they can do- Yeah … that you’re offering. They wanna know what’s coming next in terms of technology. They wanna know what are some of the non-Western options. So, you know, like it would be great to get some Chinese wind turbine, um, manufacturers as well.

Like, they want all this information. They don’t want a slick sales brochure pitch that doesn’t give them any technical information. So we’re hopeful that we’ll be able to get, you know, some technical people to speak on, yeah, what are the upgrades you offer and how does it work- Mm-hmm … and show us a case study that demonstrates the improvements.

Um, ’cause that [00:16:00] sometimes is really hard to get out of- Mm … out of OEMs. You know, that, “We’ve got this thing, it’s so amazing, you should get it.” Okay, well, what’s the business case for it? “Oh, well, we don’t have any numbers. Just trust us.”

Matthew Stead: Yeah.

Rosemary Barnes: Um, it’s so common to get a pitch like that. So yeah, any, any OEM that has any- anything like that, either for the next generation of wind turbines or for upgrading the current fleet, yeah, if you’re willing to bring the data, then people, they are desperate to hear this information.

Allen Hall: Mm.

Matthew Stead: Yeah. That came up so many times.

Rosemary Barnes: Mm.

Allen Hall: So what were the other, uh, topics that we’re… I’m just not thinking off the top of my head. I know foundations came up quite a bit- Foundations, yeah … which was an odd one, I think, because we haven’t seen that a lot in Australia. Yeah. But this year, foundations, foundations, foundations.

Basically, the health of foundations. Yeah.

Matthew Stead: Yeah. I think really there was a lifting of the maturity. Um, I think the topics were sort of showing that, you know, Maslow’s hierarchy and moving into the more of optimization rather than making do, and I think life extension around the foundations was a, a really good example of that.

Allen Hall: And bolts.

Matthew Stead: Bolts? Yeah, bolts.

Allen Hall: [00:17:00] Everybody said bolts. Bolts.

Matthew Stead: Bolts.

Allen Hall: You think the world’s simplest device, we’ve been making bolts for nearly 1,000 years or at least a couple hundred. But it does- And, you know- … come up quite often … cable, cable

Matthew Stead: terminations, again, some really

Rosemary Barnes: basic- Yeah, that, really specific ones that were raised multiple times.

Yeah. Um, yeah, which, which is great- Yeah … ’cause it gives us a good direction to go. But I do love how it changes so much every year- Yeah … ’cause it makes me feel like, okay, yeah, like we’re actually, you know, it’s worthwhile, um, putting on another event. Mm. Um, not just recording one event and then just, you know, like replaying that every year or something.

Re-educating.

Allen Hall: Yeah. Well, I, I think there’s a learning exercise that has happened over the past two years where people now are knowledgeable about those things we talked about- Mm … two years ago. Uh, was it, was it even two years ago? It was a year and a half ago when we first started this, so we’re, we’re not that deep into it.

Although our third conference will be next March, uh, you just see more energy, more industry knowledge in some of the references that I heard, uh, in terms of other companies and the approaches they’re taking clearly came from WOMA.

Matthew Stead: Yeah.

Rosemary Barnes: Mm.

Matthew Stead: Yeah,

Allen Hall: yeah. Which is, which is [00:18:00] fascinating. Yeah. That’s

Rosemary Barnes: good. I mean, we want- It, it is

Allen Hall: sticking

Rosemary Barnes: we want tech conferences to get better, right? That was the- No … the reason why we, uh, we started this conference was ’cause we didn’t think that it was sufficient, what we had available. So, you know, it’s not a bad thing if other conferences, um, get better. Yeah. Yeah. We should also mention that blades were, were raised a fair bit.

We talked so much about blades in the previous years, and we will be talking about blades a lot again, including we’ve got a master class on the Friday. Uh, it’s… Yeah, we’ll go back to some of the basics about how the composite materials work and how a blade is designed and certified and manufactured, and, um- Lightning.

Y- yeah, yeah, a little, a little bit about lightning. Um, I don’t wanna cover it too much because we did the master class on lightning- Right … last year. Mm. Um, yeah. And yeah, some of the common damage methods anyway. And of course- Mm … yeah, lightning is probably the most- … common, or I guess leading edge erosion is the most, and then lightning would be the most expensive.

Um, yeah, so we’ll be, we’ll be covering all that and just try and raise the knowledge level a little bit, um, for [00:19:00] everybody to… It’s a very complicated kind of, uh, yeah, component.

Matthew Stead: Yeah.

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah.

Matthew Stead: And workshops. So each year we’ve run sort of workshops or roundtables or whatever, so we’re still thinking about the format for them, but, um, thinking about how we’ll reintroduce them again this year.

You know, specific topics, specific questions, specific answers.

Rosemary Barnes: Mm.

Allen Hall: And the three of us will be in Hamburg in a couple of weeks at Wind Energy Hamburg, so if you see us and you’re interested in coming to Australia, that’s the place to grab us and- Yep … and shake us and say, “I wanna go to Australia. How do I do it?”

Rosemary Barnes: Mm.

Allen Hall: Uh, yeah. Yeah.

Rosemary Barnes: Especially if you’ve got a, a t- technology that addresses some of those specific issues that we’ve mentioned- Mm … then, um, yeah, just know ahead of time that Australia needs, needs more information and more, um, solutions available to them. So, yeah. And

Matthew Stead: that reminds me, we had a really discussion a- around safety and, you know, reasonable and [00:20:00] practicable, and discussion around all the lessons learned about how…

or what is best practice on a site, what is best practice about how to manage risks and-

Rosemary Barnes: Mm.

Matthew Stead: Yeah. Yeah. I know you, you, you enjoyed that one.

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, yeah, definitely. And we’re not talking about, like, safety the- Ear muffs or hats. The, um, rou- Yeah, the routine safety that if you- The goggles, yeah … yeah, trip over and graze your knee, then you need to let the site supervisor know.

You, you know, it’s not that stuff, ’cause sites have that under control. That’s a given, yeah. Or at least the ability to get that under control. We’re talking about the bigger- Yeah … bigger things, you know. Like, uh, is there a issue that is causing blades to fall off turbines every now and then? Is there an issue that, uh, can lead to, you know, a fire?

I, I think everyone, like- Yeah … a big fear of everybody’s. There’s never been, um, in Australia at least, there’s never been a wind turbine fire that has caused a bush fire, but it is a possibility, and it would be so bad for the industry. So, you know, it’s those things- Mm … that could be just terrible, preventing those before they happen.

Mm. So that’s the kind of safety that we’re gonna mainly focus on. Mm. Although, you know, we’re not gonna [00:21:00] turn down questions on, um, some of the smaller stuff as well.

Matthew Stead: Yeah.

Rosemary Barnes: Mm.

Matthew Stead: And we even thought about getting some lawyers-

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah …

Matthew Stead: you missed out on this discussion, Rosie. Okay.

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah.

Matthew Stead: So

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Lawyers, this is news to me.

Well, I mean, are we talking contracts or, um-

Matthew Stead: No, no … no … it’s really operations. I mean- Right … the environmental, um, issues- Oh yeah … the operational issues. Mm. You know, there’s, there’s a few things in there that the lawyers can add.

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. I mean- … I’ve, I constantly find myself having to interpret, you know, legal, um, legal text and also anticipate, you know, it’s one thing about what’s the right engineering, but then there is also the legal interpretation of it- Yeah

uh, as well, you know, in terms of contract law, but then also in, in terms of safety. Yeah. Um, yeah. Was this certification done correctly? You know- Yeah … that’s got some legal aspect to it. So yeah, that- Yeah … makes sense to me. Insurance is another one where I would say- Yeah, actually that came up … you know, like some, some people might think that that doesn’t sound interesting, but yeah, in- insurance is the other-

Matthew Stead: Mm

Rosemary Barnes: aspect that you [00:22:00] just can’t, um, you can’t get away from it. Like, you can’t just think that you’re, you’re doing your engineering without bothering about Mm … yeah, like finance and law and, um, and insurance. Those are things that- Mm … you spend a lot of time thinking about.

Matthew Stead: Yeah. Mm. And I guess we would also love to hear, you know, about potential speakers, but we’d also love to hear any other topics that people are attending and want to know about as well.

Rosemary Barnes: Mm-hmm.

Allen Hall: Absolutely. And if you haven’t registered for WOMA 2027, which will be March 3rd through 5th at the Pullman in East Melbourne, right? East Melbourne, yeah. They just redefined it. It’s Pullman in East Melbourne. Uh, go ahead and go to woma2027.com and register now. Uh, Matthew and Rosemary, it’s great to see you in person again, and we’ll see you in a couple of weeks, uh, hopefully in, in Germany.

Rosemary Barnes: Mm.

Allen Hall: Very [00:23:00] exciting.

What Operators Want to Hear at WOMA 2027

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Forcing Our Teachers to Toe the Line on Communism

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The substance of the meme here is correct; Florida public schools require comprehensive K-12 instruction on the history and dangers of communism, following a series of legislative moves and curriculum standards. The updated “History of Communism” curriculum is rolling out for the 2026–2027 school year, mandating that students learn about the “brutal realities” and (the catastrophic) global impact of communist regimes.

When I was a schoolboy in the 1960s and early 1970s, we came to learn that all efforts to establish a viable communist nation had failed, but our teachers were not shackled as to what they could teach and how they could teach it.  As a result, we came to a variety of helpful viewpoints, and these are what I offered my own kids as they were growing up, e.g.,

  • “Men are not angels,” as my sixth-grade social studies teacher explained.  Those who do not need to work in order to survive can simply goof off.
  • Yet idleness is averse to most people’s psychological needs to be an active and productive person, and member of society.
  • Power corrupts, and absolutely power corrupts absolutely.  Democracy prevents the accumulation of a pathological amount of power on the part of any one leader.  (This was assumed to be true until Donald Trump’s second term.)
  • If Lenin (a butcher) hadn’t had Trotsky (a compassionate intellectual) assassinated, the entirety of the USSR would have turned out completely differently.
  • If the U.S. hadn’t, through its embargoes, made it impossible for Cuba to offer its people a decent quality of life, their revolution may have succeeded and brought forth a new way of thinking.
  • There are examples of smaller scale societies in which the ideals of communism work out very nicely, e.g., the Israeli kibbutz.
  • We read and discussed at length a book called “Social Ideals and Ideal Societies” in which these concepts were analyzed fairly and in great depth.

Now, will the typical American schoolchild turn out better if he’s cut off from thinking critically about all this and forced to accept the mantra that “communism = evil?” The typical Florida Republican would say the answer is an obvious yes, but most intelligent people would dispute that.

Producing educated people who can think for themselves is an idea quite opposed to the ongoing control of a population.

Forcing Our Teachers to Toe the Line on Communism

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Trump Supporters Stupid?

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To the author of the meme here, I say: It’s safe to say that most folks in Trump’s MAGA base are stupid, though one needs more than a low IQ to fit into this segment.

In particular, we mustn’t omit mean-spiritedness.  People who are kind, compassionate, decent and tolerant of others are grossly unqualified to be rank-and-file Trumpers.

Trump Supporters Stupid?

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