Weather Guard Lightning Tech
TPI Composites Bankruptcy, Vestas Buys Mexico Factories
Allen, Joel, and Yolanda examine TPI Composites’ Chapter 11 proceedings, including the Oaktree Capital secured debt controversy and Vestas’ acquisition of two Mexican factories. With remaining assets heading to auction in January, they discuss what operators should consider as blade supply uncertainty grows.
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The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by Strike Tape, protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit strike tape.com. And now your hosts, Allen Hall, Rosemary Barnes, Joel Saxum and Yolanda Padron. Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy
Allen Hall: Podcast. I’m your host, Allen Hall. I’m here with Yolanda Padron and Joel Saxum.
Rosemary Barnes is on holiday. We’re here to talk about the TPI composites, uh, bankruptcy hearings, and there’s been so much happening there behind the scenes. It’s hard to keep track of, but we’ve done a deep dive and wanted to give everybody at least a highlight of what has happened over the last couple of months.
So, uh, if you do own vessels or GE turbines, you understand what the situation is. As we all know, TPI composites, gee, was the world’s largest independent of wind blade manufacturing. Uh, they [00:01:00] were, it, they built blades for renova, Vestas, Nordex. They built blades for almost everybody, uh, names that basically power the global energy transition.
And then, uh, if, and a lot of people don’t know this, but back in December of 2023, uh, TPI struck a deal that is drawing some fire. Right now, TPI swapped $436 million in preferred stock for. $393 million in secure debt held by Oak Tree Capital and by August of last year, just a couple of months ago, TPI filed for Chapter 11.
Now the Blade Makers assets are being carved up and sold, and two of wind energy’s biggest players are stepping in to keep production running while the bankruptcy plays out. Now, Joel and Yolanda, I, I think the bankruptcy of. TPI sort of came to the industry as a little bit of a shock. Obviously [00:02:00] the, the price had fallen quite a bit.
Uh, if you’ve watched the stock price of TPI composites had been dropping for a while and didn’t have a lot of of market value. However, uh, GE and Vestas both have manufacturing facilities basically with uh, TPI composites and, and needs them to produce those blades. So the filing of the bankruptcy, I’m sure was a nervous point for Vestus and GE being really the, the two main ones.
Joel Saxum: Well, I think we talked about this a little bit off air. Is it, it shouldn’t just be Vestus and GE nervous about this now. It should be every operator that’s in either in development or still has blades under warranty. Uh, so, and this is a not a US problem, this is a global problem. ’cause TPI is a global company that serves, uh, global industry all over the place, right?
We know that a large percentage of their throughput was GE and Vestas, but also Siemens ESAs in there, you name it, right? The, any major operator’s gonna have some blades built [00:03:00] by TPI or op major, OEM. So. There isn’t gonna be much of a, uh, dark corner of the wind industry that this issue doesn’t touch. So I think they, the, one of the issues here is, um, we’ve, we’ve, we’ve heard about some issues going on with TPI, but it was almost like a, ah, they’re not, they’ll, they’ll be okay.
They, so, so something will happen. I mean, Yolanda, you had said. What was it that you said ear earlier? Like, uh, the kind of the, the, the feeling about it.
Yolanda Padron: They’ll take care of it. You know, OEMs will take care of it and we’ll be fine.
Joel Saxum: Someone’s gonna support this thing.
Yolanda Padron: Yeah. I, I think teams, you’re, you’re definitely right.
Teams really do need to at least think of a, of a plan B or a plan C to have when the dust settles so you’re not scrambling.
Allen Hall: Yeah. And it hasn’t really played out that way. Uh, Vestas has stepped in a little bit and GE has stepped in. Not in terms of acquiring any of the major assets, but I think the first question is what is Oaktree Capital’s, [00:04:00] uh, role in all this?
And that is being played out right now in front of the bankruptcy court. Uh, so when you go to bankruptcy, there’s obviously a lot of oversight that happens there, uh, and. When TPI composites entered bankruptcy, the accreditors committee had a bunch of questions about that transaction. Uh, they pointed to a December, 2023 refin refinancing deal with Oaktree and in which creditors were really suspicious of basically saying that TPI was already insolvent in 2023 and Oaktree exchanged equity for secure debt jumping ahead of everybody else in line to get paid.
So because they Oaktree has secured debt, they’re first in line to get paid. If, uh, weather Guard was involved selling parts to TPI, which thank goodness we weren’t, we would be unsecured. They wouldn’t have to pay us. So Oaktree would get paid first and everybody else is unsecured, gets paid [00:05:00] later. Uh, that’s okay.
I mean, that’s the way they, uh, they structured it. But this has led to a problem, right? So that oak tree. Uh, was supposed to release about $20 million in funding to keep the factories open, and that, that happened just a couple of weeks ago, and Oaktree refused to do it. So the amount of cash flow to keep the factories open was a real issue.
TPI was in front of the court saying, we’re in trouble. We’re gonna become insolvent. We don’t have cash flow to keep the doors open. So the blade factories nearly shut down a couple of weeks ago. However, there was a, the settlement, uh, just after that, uh, in regards to Oaktree about when the payouts happen, what Oaktree will receive, and which basically it’s, most of whatever’s gonna happen here.
So whatever, uh, TPI decides to sell or can sell, Oaktree is gonna be the recipient of those funds for most of it. I think the
Joel Saxum: difficult thing here for. The [00:06:00] general listener, me included, is understanding that this is a very complicated legal process that’s governed and it’s global, right? So it’s governed in certain court systems in different places.
And because there is also the idea of like say in the, in the United States, the SEC Securities Exchanges Commission, that kind of regulates these. Publicly traded companies. There’s a lot of lights and there’s a lot of lawyers and there’s a lot of jargon involved in this thing. And, but basically what what we’re saying is, is the way the process works when you have a, uh, a bankruptcy and insolvency, if a company has debt to certain people, there may be a list of a hundred people.
There may be a list of two, doesn’t matter. There’s certain classes of debt, right? And Oaktree has secured debt, which means. If they get paid first, if there’s anything, right? If this bankruptcy goes and, and gets, sell this, sell that, sell this, whatever’s left, goes to the secured debt and then it goes to unsecured debt.
And [00:07:00] there’s sometimes there can be different classes of unsecured debt as well. And, but if there’s not, some of it just goes by like date or value or everybody gets a percentage, it just kind of all depends on how it works out in the specific court system that the stuff takes care of. But that person.
That is the top. Um, in this case, Oaktree Capital, right? Based out of la but offices all over the world, they got about $200 billion in real estate equity and debt assets or, uh, I guess valuation. I wouldn’t say assets. Um, they are the debtor in possession, so they’re the one that’s kind of like top of the heap.
They’re kind of controlling how the. The restructuring and or sale goes alongside the court system.
Allen Hall: And the trouble is, is that when you have unsecured and secured debt, everybody that’s unsecured wants to get paid. So any material supplier that has been for in selling product to TPI over the years [00:08:00] usually has a 30, 60, 90, maybe 120 days of, of after they deliver the product to they get paid.
In that timeframe, if bankruptcy happens, all that product that’s sitting on the floor at TPI, you sort of lost it. You know, you can’t get it back and you’re not gonna get paid for it for if, if, if ever, what do you do? And so you start, you know, you start filing claims, but those, those claims most likely will never get paid.
Or if they will, they’re going to get pennies on the dollar.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. And I would imagine like, so, you know, when we, when we sit here and say from the weather guard hat, right? We put a. They go to a client, net 15, net 30, we expect to get paid in that amount of time. That’s kind of how our, basically US forwarding credit to someone else.
That’s how it works. And if you work within the wind industry, you know that the OEMs, because they are the OEMs, they have a heavier hand. Sometimes they’re net 90, net one 20. Um, once they, once they’re cool with your invoice. So you could see that some of these people that have, [00:09:00] uh, and TPI falls within that OEM category, right?
Um, you can see that they more than likely will have had longer, more favorable terms for themselves with some of these sub-suppliers. And the sub-suppliers are, think about TPI blades. It is composites, it is fabric, it’s resins, it’s all of those supply companies. Um, and you know, there may be, uh, some other.
Dead in there that you’re not, we’re not sure of. We saw some stuff with some OEMs, maybe they have some exchange agreements you paid up front for some blades or something of that sort. You didn’t get ’em. I don’t know. But there is also, and this is the one that kind of hits home to some of our listeners, um, not only some of our listeners are those supply chain companies that support them, um, but a lot of them are ISPs.
Right? So we were just talking to someone who, you know, just a couple weeks ago that had done some inspection work, uh, for, for TPI that. They’re not gonna get paid for it. Um, we have seen on the creditors list of some ISPs that we know they’re not gonna get paid, and those are people out [00:10:00] doing warranty repairs and those kind of things over a course of time.
And they may have had a net 30, net 60, net 90 days payment, but I’m sure that stuff is well and long gone. They probably have invoices due for a year now. Uh, but it, this, the, the, this downfall of TPI, what’s going on with them, it affects a lot of people in the wind industry. Um. Be being, having been on the short end once in my career of an unsecured debt, uh, when a, when the client or the, uh, um, purchaser of services, but went into bankruptcy and losing a whole bunch of cash, and there’s nothing you can do about it, um, except for.
Be mad and stew over it and learn from your mistakes. Uh, that’s a tough place to be.
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Allen Hall: the problem. With TPI has been keeping the doors open and they went in front of the court and said, we have a liquidity problem.
Uh, Vestus bought those two factories, those two LLCs for $10 million each. That was the agreement During that transaction, TPI asked for another $55 million, uh, and it’s in the transcripts. You can go listen to this dental, listen to it, but obviously the vest representatives were. No [00:12:00] way. We’re not doing that.
We are in good faith. De decided to buy, uh, these two pieces. So 10 million bucks a, a factory is. Pretty decent price, but they are still in a liquidity challenge. So GE Renova and Vestus, uh, don’t want the Blades manufacturing to stop. They have customers who need blades and so they need these TPI factories to keep running.
GE Renova is providing emergency financing. Uh, through what the court calls, uh, Erna, G-E-R-N-A, it’s a liquidity agreement. Uh, they also signed a long lead materials agreement to keep raw materials moving into the plants. Vestas provided cash advances to keep production going at the Mexico facilities also.
So for now, everything continues to be running, but essentially GE and Vestas are pro paying for the materials. To keep the production line going and there’s this, there’s on the back end of this TPI is essentially. Gonna charge, um, [00:13:00] GE vest less for the blades when they roll off the line because they advanced some those funds.
So, TPI as an organization is still trying to continue to produce blades and trying to honor their commitments as much as they can, but they need cash and the, the place they’re going to go get it or have been getting it from as Vestas in GE Renova. So you
Joel Saxum: one would expect that either Vestas or GE Renova would eventually just say like, we’ve got to buy you.
Is that a reality? Because it doesn’t seem like it from the court documents and stuff. It seems like they’re, they’re kind of, they don’t want to get their hands into back or back into, in GEs case, this blade manufacturing, uh, faculties, right? They’re okay right now providing cash for you guys to keep your operation running and providing us with the things we need.
But we don’t actually want to take it over. That’s what it feels
Allen Hall: like. Uh, well, Vestus did, right? So Vestus took over two factories in Mexico. GE has not done [00:14:00] that yet, and there’s no indication from the proceedings that I read on all the documents that GE has made any move to do that. Vestus definitely stepped in and wants to keep the two factories running, uh, with the issues with ge, Renova and LM at the minute, and there was a lot of layoffs at LM just before the new year.
It’s a question of what GE will do, and it doesn’t seem like as of right now, GE is going to buy factories. Now that being said, uh, TPI composites has deadlines to meet and some auctions to run. Uh, the remaining assets, the non vestus. Portion and the, the Turkish operations, which were sold way earlier, uh, all of the remaining assets go up for bid on January 26th.
And if no outside buyer steps in, which is very possible, Oak Tree Capital can use its debt as currency to take ownership of from what is called a credit bid. [00:15:00] From there, uh, the secure lender could convert that debt into equity and, and so basically what happens is Oak Tree Capital. Would be the holder of the company for whatever remains.
But you would think that GE Viva, uh, would want to have some piece of this to keep the blade factories running, but there’s no indication of that. No one from GE has said anything. None of the filings indicate that GE wants to go ahead and or ge. Viva wants to go ahead and buy the factories. Nothing like that has happened.
So there may be, uh, some more financial transactions at play here, but as of right now, everything that remains for TPI composites is gonna be in the auction block. Someone could walk up and for several million dollars, obviously, uh, acquire it and
Joel Saxum: in theory run it. So, I mean, Alan, you and I talked about this this morning a little bit.
We have seen more [00:16:00] layoffs at lm. Right. We saw more people depart and it sounds like that building is basically a ghost town over in Denmark. GE is basically scuttling LM down to nothing, and they will more than likely either sell off whatever LM has or discontinue whatever that business model is, if that’s where they’re going, blade wise, wind wise.
At the same time, they’ve also said, we’re not building any more g offshore turbines.
Allen Hall: What are they
Joel Saxum: doing? I don’t see them having the, the, the, the thirst to go scoop up or put any money into TPI, but it’s like a catch 22. ’cause they need them to fulfill the orders and stuff that they have. Right now what we’re staring at is basically oak tree composites.
Allen Hall: There’s no chance of that. The oak tree doesn’t know how to run that business. They’re gonna have to hire somebody to go do that. Even if they did, you still got factories in Iowa, a bunch in Mexico, other [00:17:00] places. You have all these assets kind of spread all over the place. It’s not like running an automotive dealership on the corner, you’re, you’re running a major operation with thousands of employees and producing these massively complex blades.
There’s only a handful of companies that would be even possible that we could acquire that and run it with any competency at all right now.
Joel Saxum: So does oak tree being, being that oak tree is the debtor in possession and if, if possible with, or if possible, if it, if it rolls this way with the plan toggle, right.
Where they would basically, the cell would convert them into equity holdings and they would own it. Are they the gatekeepers to who can bid? Like do they control ge? You can bid vest as you can bid? Or does the court control that?
Allen Hall: The court controls all of that. So it’s all part of the chapter 11 proceedings.
Anybody can walk up and put a bid in. And now whether it qualifies or not is, is a good question, but anybody can walk up and, [00:18:00] and make a claim for what remains. There’s, there is a process that will happen there, but who else would it be? Nordex? I don’t think so. Is is Vesta gonna buy more? I don’t think so.
So the concern is obviously for TPI, what is it gonna look like going forward? If you have purchased Vestus turbines or GE Renova turbines, are you gonna have the blades that you have purchased in time? Great questions to ask. I think on the other side is if you do own GE Renova or Vestus turbines and they’re made by TPI, where the technical aspects lie, what do you do where, what should you be thinking about if you’re a large operator of some of these turbines?
How I should be planning for the future here? What are you thinking about?
Joel Saxum: So let’s divide it into two categories. One of them is turbine blades on order supply chain, supply [00:19:00] chain, and the other one’s being turbine blades already in production or received order.
Yolanda Padron: I’m not sure that we can fully look at them separately though, right?
Because if you have them, if, if they’re yours and they’re under a service agreement or something. Eventually you might be in the queue for a replacement that you need, right? That your OEM would be on the hook for.
Joel Saxum: That raises another question there then does. I don’t, ’cause I don’t know this. Maybe you do.
Alan does a bankruptcy qualify as a force majeure event?
Allen Hall: Not in terms of like lightning would be, but, but in terms, yeah, sure.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. But can they claim force majeure and be like, uh, out of our control? So now the turbine supply agreements are, you know, basically have to be rewritten. Timelines have to be rewritten.
Yolanda, to your point, if we have a blade that we need for production, am I not responsible for LDS anymore because the blade manufacturer went into, uh, bankruptcy?
Yolanda Padron: I think it’d be more of [00:20:00] either Now you’re not just. In the queue for TPI Blades. But you’re in the queue for whatever we can retrofit there, right?
That they could put in.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. The alternative is you need a whole set though, right? So if we say like, I need a blade from TPI, or I need an entire set of LM blades, now you’re triple the cost. Who has to pay for that?
Yolanda Padron: I really would hope that it, they wouldn’t go this route, but I think some OEMs would just hit liquidated damages.
And stop.
Allen Hall: That’s what I think too. I mean, we’ve seen that happen with some of the OEMs. Is that the, uh, LDS and that’s it. There is nothing going forward. They’re, they’re fine doing that. That’s the only play that they have. I, I am deeply concerned what GE Renova is about to do in the wind business because of their gas turbine and everything else are so profitable.
And they just announced that the wind business in 2026 is not likely to make any. Positive cash flow. [00:21:00] It, the, the discussion inside of GE Renova, at least at the sort of the boardroom level, must be really tense because in, in theory, they could buy TPIs assets in the factories and run them, but they just went through essentially a liquidation process with lm.
Do they want to run another company, especially when they’re bleeding cash in that particular business? I think the answer GE historically has been no. If we’re not number one or number two, we’re getting the heck outta that business. That was the Jack Welsh of running ge, and anybody that worked for GE knew that loud and clear because they said it all the time.
Those same people that grew up in that GE culture are now in the boardroom, and what are they likely to do? They’re likely to follow that advice. Because it’s just what they know. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s the school they went to. Are they gonna change their mind and say, A longer term play is wind [00:22:00] and we wanna stay in it and we’re willing to lose a couple hundred million dollars a year for the next couple of years, and now we’re gonna run a Blade Factory with several thousand employees down in Mexico.
I just don’t see it. Uh, not that I could be totally wrong about that. Probably am. Uh, today, sitting at the beginning of January of 2026, I don’t think GE Renova wants to be in the blade manufacturing business if they can at all avoid it.
Yolanda Padron: I think it’s important for owners to start thinking a lot more about educating their internal teams on what they can.
So if it’s through, if you know people within your OEM that you can trust and that can help you. Learn how to self-service some of your blades. That would be great if it’s through ISPs that you can trust. If it’s a hodgepodge of items. I think it’s really important for owners right now to start building that up because it will take a while.
I. And, and the risk [00:23:00] is there.
Allen Hall: That wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast, and if today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us on LinkedIn and don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you found value in today’s conversation, please leave us overview.
It really helps other wind energy professionals discover the show. And we will catch you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast.
Weather Guard Lightning Tech
Everpoint’s BladeBlok Recycles Blades for Drilling
James Timmins, VP of Engineering at Everpoint Services, joins to discuss how recycled wind turbine blades become BladeBlok, a drilling fluid additive for oil, gas, and geothermal wells.
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Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining light on wind energy’s brightest innovators. This is the progress powering tomorrow
Allen Hall: James, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. There has been a lot of activity at EverPoint Services. So I wanna back up first because if you’re not familiar with EverPoint Services, they are a recycler f- for renewable projects.
James Timmins: So we’re a, a renewable energy service company that specializes in, um, decommissioning and remediation services for, uh, wind and solar assets.
Allen Hall: So when a solar farm gets hit by hail and the panels are broken, EverPoint comes up and cleans up that mess to, to allow the repair to happen.
James Timmins: Correct, yes.
Allen Hall: And on the wind turbine side, you’re t- decommissioning wind turbines, but you’re also taking the [00:01:00] blades.
James Timmins: Yes. So it’s our responsibility to haul off the damaged, I guess, the scrap.
And, um, obviously there’s a very healthy market for scrap steel that you find in the tower base- Yes … but the fiberglass is a little less straightforward when it comes to disposal and/or recycling.
Allen Hall: So typically with the fiberglass blades or any composite that’s, that’s being recycled, th- there’s really two techniques that are being implemented right now.
Uh, well, really three. Let’s go over three of ’em. One of ’em is you can just bury them. They’re c- essentially construction materials, so you can bury them. Not ideal, but it has happened in the past. The second is they grind up the, the blades and use ’em in, uh, c- the cement-making process, where they’re burning some of the things that are combustible there and using it for fuel, but also the fiber can help with the cement.
Does, does that sound right? Correct. And, and then the third one I’ve seen is just as a reinforcement product. [00:02:00] So it’s, uh, they chop up the fiber in different lengths, they clean it up, and you can u- use it as an additive to different products. Yes. And, and that generally has been the marketplace in the blade recycling area for- Going on 20 years now probably Yes Until now.
And that’s where Everpoint has really changed the game because you’re thinking about blade recycling a completely different way.
James Timmins: Correct. So my background is oil and gas. I was a drilling engineer, uh, for major oil companies, so it was my job to plan, execute, and oversee drilling operations. So I worked kind of all over the world, and this project started as an icebreaker at a friend’s birthday.
I had never met Tyler Goodell before. I- Wait,
Allen Hall: wait, wait. So you’re at a birthday party-
James Timmins: Yes …
Allen Hall: and your kids are having fun. They’re eating cake. Oh,
James Timmins: we were at a dive bar, so we- Oh, okay … yeah, watching a band, uh- … sitting over a bucket of Lone Stars and yeah.
Allen Hall: Okay. That’s the [00:03:00] best place for new ideas to occur clearly.
So you’re, you’re, you’re at a birthday event, you’re hanging out, and what happens?
James Timmins: He asked me what, what I would do with tens of thousands of tons of scrap fiberglass.
Allen Hall: And you get asked that every day, or is it- No. Okay.
James Timmins: And I thought it was a weird question, and I kinda put it in the back of my mind. And about 15 minutes later I was like, “Well, I have an idea that we could, uh- Put at least some of that to work.
Allen Hall: And what was that idea?
James Timmins: The idea was that we could grind it to a specific particle size distribution and use it as a fluid loss additive in oil, gas, and geothermal drilling operations.
Allen Hall: Okay. That’s a unique application.
James Timmins: Yes.
Allen Hall: So I think we need to walk into what happens when we’re drilling an oil well or any sort of well, I suppose.
Uh, there’s unique things that happen that require specialty fluids or specially …
James Timmins: Uh, specialty additives you could say. Additives.
Allen Hall: Yes. [00:04:00] So- Okay. That’s a, that’s a good way to describe it. All right. So, uh, I’m drilling a well. I’m in Texas. I’m an oil tycoon. I wanna drill this well. What am I doing?
James Timmins: So you have what’s called drilling mud, which is pumped down the drill string through the bit.
Um, helps cool the bit, um, power down hole tools, and sweep the cuttings out, which is the- Okay … drilled up rock.
Allen Hall: Yep.
James Timmins: So there’s a, a hydrostatic pressure that the fluid column exerts on the formation. And if that fluid column exerts more pressure than the formation can stand, it splits open like a fracture.
Allen Hall: Okay.
James Timmins: In this case, an accidental fracture. Or you could have just a porous formation of, uh, low pressure. And so you have this pressure imbalance from the wellbore where the fluid wants to flow to the area of low pressure. And, uh, this mud is $300 or $400 a barrel. And if you’re- Whoa … losing 100 barrels an hour, the costs add up really quick.
Can’t drill ahead. Um, it’s what’s called non-productive time. [00:05:00] So you’re spending 80 or $100,000 a day for all this equipment to be out there, and you’re not drilling ahead, so.
Allen Hall: Okay. So as the, the drill bit goes down into the formation, you’re hitting rock. You hit a crack in a rock, or you create a crack in a rock.
All your drilling mud, and it’s not really mud, right? No, it’s- It’s, it’s a special compound-
James Timmins: Yes … that we call mud. Very,
Allen Hall: uh,
James Timmins: yeah, it’s drilling fluid, I guess, is the technical term. Okay . But, um- I’ve
Allen Hall: heard mud used universally.
James Timmins: It kinda looks like chocolate milk most of the time.
Allen Hall: There you go. Yeah. Okay. So it’s an expensive fluid.
You’re pushing it down in, but then you get a, a crack or a formation that you run into, and all that precious fluid goes running off somewhere else. Yep. So which it doesn’t allow you to cool the bit, which basically stops all drilling.
James Timmins: Correct.
Allen Hall: Okay, that’s a big problem.
James Timmins: And in worst case scenario, the fluid column falls and the pressure on the formation falls, and then the well starts flowing and you have a well control problem, so.
Allen Hall: So now you got a big problem.
James Timmins: Yep. [00:06:00]
Allen Hall: All right. So now you have fluid coming back at you that you’re not ready for.
James Timmins: Correct, yeah.
Allen Hall: Okay, that seems like quite the mess.
James Timmins: Yeah, so it’s actually one of the… You know, in some parts of the world, one of the top drivers of non-productive time and cost. So it’s a, kind of a problem as old as the oil field itself, but…
Allen Hall: Okay, c- ’cause at the end of the day, you would like to have a specific hole tapped at a specific location pulling-
James Timmins: Yes …
Allen Hall: hopefully petroleum products from that area or whatever you’re going for. It’s could, could be gas- Yeah … uh, off of that site, but you have to have some constraints about it, right? Right.
You d- d- to control everything. Okay. So n- that sets the problem. All right. We’re gonna run to this, uh, area where we’ve, we’ve cracked the found- the, the rock or there’s porous rock and we’re pumping this, a really expensive fluid down it and we would like to stop that from happening. How does that end up involving wind turbine blade recycling?
James Timmins: So we grind this material to a specific size and you mix it at a certain [00:07:00] concentration. Could be two pounds per barrel of mud or 80, uh, depending on the severity of the losses. But, um, this mixture is pumped down into the formation and this, um, kind of acts like a… Technical term is bridging. So this, these fibers from the recycled turbine blades cannot fit through all of the pore spaces.
Sure. And gradually they be- begin to accumulate on the wall of the, the wellbore. So they- Okay … uh, eventually it’s kinda like a clogged sink with… You know, you get enough- So you get enough hair in the sink … chopped vegetables. Yeah. Yeah. It, it eventually will stop flowing.
Allen Hall: Oh, well, who hasn’t experienced that?
So it’s, it’s… So you, you wanna put things down into this hole that prevent the fluid from running off. Recycled blades seems like a very viable option just because it’s in an inert substance, it’s pretty durable.
James Timmins: It is.
Allen Hall: It’s tough. It can handle high temperatures [00:08:00] and it now can be pumped.
James Timmins: Yes.
Allen Hall: Wow. All right.
So that’s a, that’s a remarkable idea. But ideas and products, there’s usually a long distance between those two.
James Timmins: Correct, yes.
Allen Hall: So from initial concept to where you are today, walk through what you had to go do to make this into a real product.
James Timmins: Uh, so we… I basically have- was familiar with these types of products in the past, but at the level I was at, I was not getting into the granular detail-
Allen Hall: Sure
James Timmins: of the qualification of the product, of the spec of the product. So, um, I kind of had to do a lot of research reading technical papers online about product development for this particular type of product. So, um, I started with a, basically in my garage, um, a geologist sieve. Okay. I got a sample of shredded fiberglass, which I think was, was like five-inch shred.
So I [00:09:00] bought a blender from Target, not knowing what else to use, and I stuffed it down in, with a crescent wrench and blended it up and broke the blender and eventually got enough usable material to, uh, start testing it in a lab. And so-
Allen Hall: Oh …
James Timmins: there are third-party labs that do these kind of tests, and they’re all industry standard, um, prescribed methods, so they’re called mud checks and, uh, what’s called a pore plugging apparatus, which is like a, either a ceramic disc that’s simulates a formation and it’s porous, it’s got a certain permeability, or you have what’s called a slotted liner, which is a stainless steel plate with two-millimeter slots on it.
And you put the mixture in, and you pressurize it, and if it stops it, then you know it works. So- So
Allen Hall: you’re plugging a hole- Yeah … in a laboratory,
James Timmins: basically. Exactly, and it’s under high temperature and pressure, so it’s designed to simulate kinda downhole conditions. But-
Allen Hall: [00:10:00] Wow. Yeah Okay, so- Got a
James Timmins: little into the weeds,
Allen Hall: but So you’re, no, you’re in your garage, you chop up some material, you go, “All right, let’s go check this out.”
You, you get a, a- an independent laboratory to try it, and they say it works.
James Timmins: Yes.
Allen Hall: And then it’s, then you’re off to the races now because- Well, that’s what I thought … you opened Pandora’s box
James Timmins: Yeah … a
Allen Hall: little
James Timmins: bit. So I was not expecting how much, how rigorous the t- the qualification would be on the industry side as well.
Right. Sure. Yeah So, um, that was kind of the starting line for, uh, product qualification, but, um, I had a very coarse particle size, thinking that would be adequate because I was not familiar with what’s actually used.
Allen Hall: What the ingredients are, yeah.
James Timmins: Right. So, um, I was kinda shopping it around to friends, and they’re like, “It’s a niche product where it is right now.
It needs to be finer.” So that’s kind of been the process is, okay, it needs to be [00:11:00] this particle size D50, which is 50th percentile mean particle size, basically. And so then the question is how do we get there? And- Right … so- Grinding composites
Allen Hall: can be difficult because- It is … they’re tough, and they’re, as you have learned with the, the- The-
blender experiment
James Timmins: Right … chopping them is not easy. Right. Very abrasive, uh, very high tensile strength. It’s basically designed not to be cut or not to be torn. Um-
Allen Hall: Right. That’s why we love it …
James Timmins: not to be, not to ever degrade in weather. So it has been an ongoing Kind of research project to find out what’s the best equipment for this, uh, can we do this at, you know, a reasonable cost?
‘Cause it’s not gonna be as cheap as grinding up or, you know, picking up sawdust from a sawmill or- Right … or chopping up cedar trees or whatever. So- Which
Allen Hall: are generally soft and easy to, to chop and-
James Timmins: Right. And not nearly as abrasive and so- Right … we [00:12:00] have identified, um, a process that we think is economical, and we’ve demonstrated it in, you know, kind of a small commercial run.
But, uh, you know, it’s kind of going back and forth to consumers and them saying, “We want this product size,” and then me going back and forth to our partners saying, “Can we do this? Can we do a lot of it? Can we do it-”
Allen Hall: Right. The quantity’s gonna
James Timmins: be big. Right. Exactly. So, you know, talking to equipment manufacturers, they’ll all tell you that their product, their, their machine can handle this material.
And they’re usually all right, but, you know- Can they
Allen Hall: handle the quantity?
James Timmins: Exactly. Without- They can do it for a month, or, you know, six months, and then it’s, well, do we have to overhaul the whole machine now ’cause this- That’s it … yeah.
Allen Hall: It’s, those composites are rough on blades.
James Timmins: Yep.
Allen Hall: So you’ve, you’ve broken through that barrier.
You obviously have figured out a way to, to chop the material down or grind the material down into the right particle size. So [00:13:00] now you have a material that is, one, clean, is using existing blades right off the turbines, being ground down, and is a, a product that will be consumed by industry in large quantities.
James Timmins: Yes.
Allen Hall: So all these blades that have, that were gonna be recycled anyway because of the age of the turbine now have a home-
James Timmins: Yes …
Allen Hall: in the oil and gas industry, which is sort of ironic, right? Right. The renewable industry is taking over oil and gas. At the same time, we’re supporting it in a way, but, uh, the product is called what?
James Timmins: BladeBlock.
Allen Hall: BladeBlock. Okay. Great name. So BladeBlock is then, is a product that’s, it comes in a, in a bag, or is it a cylinder? Is it a truckload?
James Timmins: Comes in whatever the customer wants it to come in.
Allen Hall: Okay.
James Timmins: So 50-pound sacks, uh, super sacks, or bulk trucks.
Allen Hall: So it must have a really unique, uh, application i- in terms of, I have a big problem where I can’t use off-the-shelf expensive mud.
I need to f- fill this hole relatively quickly. [00:14:00] I’m just gonna go grab some BladeBlock and solve this problem right now.
James Timmins: Yes.
Allen Hall: And, and it… So that changes the industry quite a bit. So places that you may have had trouble drilling wells in, you can now drill wells.
James Timmins: Yes.
Allen Hall: That’s remarkable. So what has been the response from the industry?
James Timmins: Uh, they love it. Um- I bet … they love the idea. They, they kind of giggle at the irony of- … you know, oil and gas solving a renewable problem. Um, and-
Allen Hall: And a renewable problem solving an oil and gas problem.
James Timmins: Right. We are selling on the performance and the cost of the product, but there is also a sustainability and circular economy, you know, aspect as well that is marketable, and there’s still an appetite on both the operator side and the oil field service side for that.
Allen Hall: This is not a… We’re in Texas at the moment, but this is not a Texas, Oklahoma, N- uh, New Mexico kind of problem. You’re actually fixing problems globally with BladeBlock.
James Timmins: Yes.
Allen Hall: So the product is, [00:15:00] although made in the United States, can be shipped anywhere I would assume. Yep. So, uh, y- are you getting any requests outside of the United States for it?
James Timmins: We have talked to overseas partners, I guess, kind of industry leaders overseas, and there is definitely some interest. Um, we are also talking to, uh, service companies domestically headquartered who have operations internationally who have expressed interest in, uh, using it overseas. But, I mean, right now, you know, we’re close enough to the ship channel that we can ship it wherever they want it.
That’s amazing.
Allen Hall: And it’s a patented product also,
James Timmins: right? Yes. So- We are in the… I guess, we’ve received our notice of allowance, and we’re in the final stages of issuance, so.
Allen Hall: So you have a, a patented, US patented, or is it, is it a world patent? Are you, you going outside the United States- Uh, we will … on patent?
James Timmins: Yes.
Allen Hall: Wow. All right. So you have eventually a somewhat global patent, so to speak. That’s not how it works, but it… that’s essentially [00:16:00] what you’ll have, uh, for BladeBlock to solve problems globally. Would, would that also involve, like, offshore wells too? Yes. Do they have the same problem? So I’m thinking of Texas ’cause we’re here, but offshore of the coast of Norway where they’re drilling wells, or in the North Sea or-
James Timmins: Persian Gulf.
Yeah …
Allen Hall: Persian Gulf, sure, that they can use BladeBlock to solve some of their problems- Yes … which they couldn’t have solved today.
James Timmins: Yeah.
Allen Hall: So d- have they abandoned wells because of this problem?
James Timmins: Yes. Um, especially in certain formations you have what are called vugs, which are basically just large limestone caves that have been-
Allen Hall: Limestone
James Timmins: is tough.
Yeah … so you can put a whole car down there if you want- … and, uh, still not fill it in. So, um, you know, this product, it basically is practically inexhaustible from you know, it’s… We’re kind of only limited by how much we can manufacture on- How much you can
Allen Hall: process …
James Timmins: right. So, um- It’s kind of a good problem to have for us, but
Allen Hall: [00:17:00] Yes.
It changes the whole dynamic of blade recycling, because the blade recycling effort up to this point has been the operator or the OEM pays the recycler to grind the blades, and then they have to find a way to source out that material. But the, basically everybody’s trying to reuse the material because it, it does have value.
How do we best reuse this, right? This is what the recycling efforts are on the recyclable blade, uh, resin systems that are happening. But you’re just taking the existing blades that weren’t meant to be recycled and recycling now in a product that has a lot of value.
James Timmins: Correct, yes. So obviously the biggest challenge everyone faces is the economics of it.
And you-
Allen Hall: You know how many people have been working on that problem? Literally thousands of people have been working that problem, and you guys figured it out at a birthday event.
James Timmins: Yeah, uh- … totally out of left field. Um, it, it just, it’s one of those things that sticks in the back of your head, and you think about it for 10 minutes, and you’re like, “Oh, uh, why-” But
Allen Hall: I have [00:18:00] a, I have a solution.
Like, we can use it here. Yeah, which, you know, most people, that would never have occurred to.
James Timmins: Right. And it’s kind of a technical rabbit hole, like the drilling fluid is- It is … it’s, it’s, so it’s not a whole lot of people out there thinking about lost circulation material- … uh, on a daily basis. Um, but that was, you know…
The problem with so many of these applications is you’re competing with, in some cases, literal dirt and sand. We pay f- five cents a pound for sand or concrete filler, fly ash, whatever, and it’s like, well, you’re never gonna process it that cheap, or you’re never gonna way to, to be able to economically process it that cheaply, so.
Allen Hall: Sure, but there’s unique applications where those things don’t work.
James Timmins: Right.
Allen Hall: And you can now make an unprofitable drill hole profitable.
James Timmins: Yes.
Allen Hall: That’s a game changer. So this is remarkable, and I, I know you guys have been working on this for a couple of years, and it’s, EverPoint has always been, [00:19:00] and we’ve talked to EverPoint for a couple of years now on the podcast of, when we talk to recyclers, we don’t act- we actually have talked to a number of recyclers, but we don’t have them on the podcast because it’s, seems like the amount of material coming into their facility and the amount of material going out are not the same.
Correct. They’re landfilling them or whatever’s going on, which is, it, it to me is trouble, right?
James Timmins: Right.
Allen Hall: You, your, EverPoint has always been, “We are actually gonna do what we say we’re gonna do. We’re gonna take the solar panels, we’re gonna recycle, we’re gonna…” You’ll be able to follow it. Correct, yeah. Which is one of the technologies that EverPoint brought, is you could follow your recycling product all the way from the site to where it finally ended up at.
That was remarkable. That was an industry-changing, uh, idea, and I appreciate that EverPoint was doing that. Now, you’re actually turning it into a viable product called Blade Block. Game changer. Now, our podcast is probably not heard by a lot of oil and gas folk, but the, you know, the word does spread and we [00:20:00] have almost two million YouTube subscribers at this point.
How do people get ahold of you to purchase BladeBlock? Do they go onto your website? Are they-
James Timmins: Yeah. I mean, LinkedIn, website.
Allen Hall: Okay. However.
James Timmins: Yeah.
Allen Hall: So- And, and what’s your website address?
James Timmins: It’s everpointservices.com.
Allen Hall: Okay. And you’re based in Texas?
James Timmins: We are. Houston.
Allen Hall: In Houston, right. So the, everybody that is interested in having improved oil and gas drilling mud, uh, can use BladeBlock now, and it’s a viable product that’s being offered, it’s patented, it’s gonna ship globally.
It’s the right time and it’s the right way to recycle your blades. So if you have a, a wind turbine farm that’s being decommissioned, there’s a lot of repowering happening right now, uh, there should be a lot of, of blade material available to make BladeBlock with. So congratulations. That’s remarkable.
James Timmins: Thank you so much.
Allen Hall: James, so thank you so much for being on the podcast. Of course. It was great to meet you.
James Timmins: Nice to meet you as
[00:21:00] well.
I wish I had $100 for every time I heard some uneducated Trump supporter tell me this.
A democracy is a system where governmental power is derived directly from the will of the majority. A constitutional republic is a specific type of representative democracy where the people elect officials to govern, but those officials are strictly limited by a supreme, written constitution designed to protect minority rights from majority rule.
I remember a conservative friend who lived in Hawaii who complained that the native people objected to a project directed from Washington to build something at the top of one of their volcanoes, on the basis that this was their holy land. My friend asked, “Doesn’t the majority rule?”
“Not necessarily.” Trying to make my point in the simplest way possible, I explained, “People have rights. My neighbors like me, but imagine that they didn’t, and 20 of them, a 20:1 majority, wanted to come in here and beat me to death. I have a right not to murdered. When you think about it, we’re lucky not to live in a country where ‘the majority rules.’”
“Oh. I guess you’re right,” my friend said.
My biggest beef with Trump isn’t the many individual points of failure, but the fact that they are all the product of the mind of a criminal sociopath whose only way of thinking is self-enrichment, normally at the expense of anyone who cannot serve to make him richer and more powerful.
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