At COP28 in Dubai, Carbon Brief’s Anika Patel spoke with Prof Pan Jiahua, vice-chair of the national expert panel on climate change of China, about his ideas for how to move to a zero-carbon future.
This interview covers a wide range of topics, including China’s stance on fossil fuels, the concept of an “ecological civilisation”, the usefulness of a global “loss-and-damage fund”, and prospects for distributed solar and power market reform in China. It is transcribed in full below, following a summary of key quotes.
China’s national expert committee on climate change, of which Prof Pan is vice-chair, is an advisory body under the national leaders group on climate change, energy-saving and emissions reduction.
He is also a member of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences and director of its Research Center for Sustainable Development, as well as director of Beijing University of Technology’s Institute of Eco-Civilization Studies and a member of the China Carbon Neutral Fifty Forum.
- On the philosophy of ‘ecological civilisation’: “Human beings, for their own benefit – they ignored the benefit of nature. The welfare of nature. We expose nature, we deplete our natural resources…[Under ecological civilisation] the basic idea [is] that [if we can achieve] harmony with nature [and] harmony among our nations, then we can go long into the future.”
- On the success of UN climate summits: “COP is the only thing that [has lasted] over 30 years…We have different views, different arguments, different interests but, all in all, we’ve come a long way…we agreed the Paris targets – in 1990 nobody would believe that [was possible].”
- On the ‘loss-and-damage fund’: “Losses and damages should be compensated, but not in a way that we divert our energy and resources for [the sake of] compensation. We should use all our energy, resources, spirits – everything – for the zero-carbon transition.”
- On the ‘climate paradox’: “If you divert the limited resources for compensating losses and damages, then the zero-carbon transition would be delayed. And if you delay such a transition, there will be more and more losses and damages. I call this the climate paradox.”
- On tripling renewable energy: “Tripling renewable energy is not enough. Why are we only tripling? Why not more and more, the more the better. Because look at China – [we] doubled and doubled and doubled [our renewable energy] all the time. This year we doubled installed capacity over the last year. Why shouldn’t we do more than just tripling?”
- On replacing energy infrastructure: “Renewables would not require a huge amount of investment in infrastructure. Fossil fuels, coal electricity generation – the investment is very capital intensive…right? Waste of money.”
- On subsidies and industrial policy: “Like a plant – in the very beginning when it’s a seed then you need to take care of it. But when it grows and becomes mature, then it can stand on its own and be competitive.”
- On an alternative to a centralised electricity grid: “I use the term ‘prosumerism’. Production, consumption and storage all in one, right? You do not require a very capital intensive power grid.…And also, this is consumer sovereignty – when you have your own system, you have a say and then…you are not totally reliant on the power grid.”
- On western suspicion: “Why did China suddenly become number one in zero-carbon renewables? It’s simply because the United States and Europe used anti-dumping subsidies and section 301 investigations in 2010. Then the Chinese competitive products, solar panels, were not able to go to the world market, so we thought we should…install everything inside of China and immediately China became number one in the world. Now you see the United States and Europe again say ‘no, it’s [a question of] supply chain security’. Right? This is really self-conflicting. On one hand they say ‘climate security’, on the other they say their ‘own security’.”
- On phasing out fossil fuels: “We want to have everything competitive enough to phase out fossil fuels, through the market process. Not command and control.”
- On abating fossil fuels: “I think that abated fossil fuels is a false statement. Because abated is not compatible, they have no competitiveness. When you abate it, it is more expensive. You think the consumers are silly? They will simply vote for competitive[ly priced] electricity.”
- On the future of fossil fuels: “Fossil fuels are fossils. They are a thing of the past.”
- On the ‘global stocktake’ negotiations: “[We talk about] responsibility sharing, carbon emissions reduction. But everybody will say ‘No, I will not [accept] any limits. You want to limit me, I want to do more.’ This is human psychology, right?”
- On the challenges of power market reform: “Only the monopoly people will [call for] ‘reform’, and through reform they gain more power, they gain more monopoly. The prosumerism system will destroy such monopolies.”
- On the urgency of ‘global boiling’: “Global warming is not global warming, it’s global boiling…Renewables are good for welfare, for wellbeing, for growing the economy, for a better environment. It’s for everybody and for the future. Fossil fuels are not for the future.”
Carbon Brief: If you don’t mind, I’d like to jump straight in. I read a lot about your work on defining the concept of an ecological civilisation, which is a concept that’s not very well understood outside China. In your previous work, you’ve described it as realising harmony between humans and nature in contrast to industrial civilisation. Could you give an overview of what an ecological civilisation is and how this concept has evolved?
Pan Jiahua: Well, from [the beginning of] human civilisation, from primitive agrarian society, human beings have relied somewhat completely on nature. The ability to live more comfortably was very limited and then, with technological innovation and the industrial revolution, we have entered the new era: the industrial stage. A sort of industrial civilisation.
Under industrial civilisation, we have an ethical principle, which is utilitarian. Measurement of happiness in human beings – we would like to be happy – and how to measure happiness? Then the British philosophers, they invented the idea of utilitarianism, which means that, once you have some sort of self-interest, self-achievement or self-realisation, then you are happy. And then happy, you need some sort of measurement. That is utilitarianism, everything is useful, everything brings you benefits, then you would be happier, right? This is utilitarian. And then the measurement in economic terminology, that is utility right? Everything has a utility and then that brings happiness to human beings. So that is utilitarianism, and then when there is no utility, then there is nothing to bring you happiness.
So this is the philosophy, the ethical foundation or ethical principle. And let’s put it another way: because of this ethical principle, that means that everybody tries to optimise his own utility. At the same time, when he maximises his own utility, he tries to provide services to other people and then the social welfare, social wellbeing in total is further improved, right? So this is the whole idea of the industrial revolution and industrialisation, that everybody would benefit.
But now, because human beings, for their own benefit – they ignored the benefit of nature. The welfare of nature. We expose nature, we deplete our natural resources, you know? And then nature is depleted and nature is destroyed, damaged, lost. And then we found that: “Oh my god, this is not sustainable.” We need to change back our principle, and not be utilitarian. We need to have something in harmony with nature, right?
Now, when we talk about security, right? Under an industrial utilitarian principle, security just [means] your own security – like the United States, like Donald Trump saying “America first”. The others, they are nobody, just America first. Others are secondary or tertiary or not important at all, only the United States is the most important. Right? Let’s get a slogan ‘America First’, so the others are not important and now it is the same. They talk about national security, their own security. The others, they don’t care. Like Russia’s own security. The others’ security is not on their agenda, right? So this is utilitarianism, this is self-interest. [Under the concept of ecological civilisation], security is not only for one but for all, for everybody, for man and nature.
CB: And does this include energy security?
PJH: Of course, energy security is one of many securities. So we need to understand security through a new mentality. This mentality has security for all. All the securities are important and should be treated equally, not that one security is superior to the others, all securities are important, should be treated equally, right? So this is harmony between man and nature. That means that not only in the United States, Russia, China, other developing countries – they should be treated equally. Your security, Russian security, Chinese security, all the securities should be treated at a similar level, as equally important. So this is a harmonious society, a harmonious world, harmonious human beings. Otherwise just your own security, the others’ security, they are not secure, and then how can they be guaranteed?
So this is the logic, and then, human beings are part of society, we are part of [the community of life on] Earth. Human beings are all one race. We have so many other species. Other species should also be treated equally. Their security, the plants, the animals and all the other forms of life. They should be treated equally, their security, not only human beings’ security, the security of nature, security of better diversity. So, this is all the securities, man and nature in harmony, living in harmony with nature. This is the principle. This principle is different from utilitarianism. That means on Earth we all are one community, an Earth community, a life community, we share our own planet, we share our future, not only one nation, one race, but everybody – not only [the] current generation, but future generations as well. So this is the basic idea that [if we can achieve] harmony with nature [and] harmony among our nations, then we can go long into the future. Otherwise, there’s conflicts among our nations, conflicts among culture, and then conflicts between man and nature. And then we will not have a future.
CB: You’ve actually teed up my next question really well. Given these hopes for harmony between different countries and harmony between man and nature, do you see the seeds of harmony at COP28?
PJH: I think that COP is the only thing that [has lasted] over 30 years. In 1990, when the United Nations created the intergovernmental negotiation committee, which resulted in the UNFCCC – this was agreed in 1992, and then in 1994 it came into force. This is the only one that lasts so long. And we have different views, different arguments, different interests but, all in all, we’ve come a long way, and now we come together and we agreed the Paris targets – in 1990 nobody would believe that [was possible]. “Oh no, global warming, that’s not my business, that’s something the rich guys should do, not us poor guys.” Right? And then at Copenhagen, when the 2C target was included in the Copenhagen Accord, that was no success at all.
And then, only five or six years later in 2015, we successfully completed the Paris Agreement. Not only 2C but 1.5C as well. And now step by step we come to a consensus. 1.5C should be the target and all our efforts should be focused on complying with 1.5C, and that’s the target. I think that’s why, in the UK for COP26 in Glasgow, [we had] 1.5C and then last year, at COP27, 1.5C was reiterated and reaffirmed, and this year [2023] I think that we should have no dissenting voices, right? So this is a great achievement and that means that all human beings can reach a consensus and can go further and further continuously. In the past, we would take a step forward and then go backward. And now at the climate conferences, we always go forward and make progress all the time. So this is really great.
But now I do have a different view. That is the global stocktake. I think that this is necessary, but [within the] global stocktake there are quite a few that are on a set track – [will they] derail or progress?
One is the “loss-and-damage fund”. Some people say that, okay, the climate morale requires the most vulnerable nations to be compensated for climate damages and climate losses. When on the first sight, it is reasonable, it is based on climate morale because they are not at any fault [for climate change] and they are suffering, so they should be compensated. I have a different view. Losses and damages should be compensated, but not in a way that we divert our energy and resources for [the sake of] compensation. We should use all our energy, resources, spirits – everything – for the zero-carbon transition. Because if you divert the limited resources for compensating losses and damages, then the zero-carbon transition would be delayed. And if you delay such a transition, there will be more and more losses and damages. I call this the climate paradox. The paradox of climate and morale.
CB: So is it a battle between short-term and long-term thinking?
PJH: No, it’s not short-term and long-term. You know, the mentality is not right. The mentality is that the focus should be zero-carbon transition. Because if you spend your time, resources, energy, negotiating the losses and damages fund – who suffers and who should pay and how the resources should be allocated – this is a waste of resources and a waste of time. Instead, we should focus our attention on zero-carbon transformation. Everything should be zero-carbon. All the people, all the countries, all the parties, all the resources: zero-carbon. And then, in the future, we would minimise our losses and damages. Otherwise, we will divert limited resources and then we will not be able to concentrate our efforts on zero-carbon transformation. So this is the mentality. I think that [the purpose of the] loss and damages [should] not be for compensation but for zero-carbon transition, zero-carbon transformation, zero carbon development.
Now if we see zero-carbon development, it is high quality. For instance, solar energy. Instead of compensation for losses and damages, you install solar panels and then you have energy. That is well-being, that is income, that is ability to develop, instead of some sort of imaginary losses and damages. Right?
CB: A critic might say, firstly countries are pledging to triple global renewables – so there is still focus on mitigation – but they might also say that countries that are seeing their infrastructure destroyed, for example through conflict, have the opportunity to develop new low-carbon infrastructure.
PJH: This is wrong. For one thing, tripling renewable energy is not enough. Why are we only tripling? Why not more and more, the more the better. Because look at China – [we] doubled and doubled and doubled [our renewable energy] all the time. This year we doubled installed capacity over the last year. Why shouldn’t we do more than just tripling? Insufficient, not enough, we should do more and more and more and more, not only tripling, it is not enough.
And the second thing: when you talk about replacing energy infrastructure. Renewables would not require a huge amount of investment in infrastructure. Fossil fuels, coal electricity generation – the investment is very capital intensive. It would require investment of a huge amount of money for construction of the thermal power plants, it would require a huge amount of investment into the power grid and distribution. Right? Waste of money.
If you go to zero-carbon solar panels on top of your roof, you have your electricity. And then when it’s intermittent, you see [we have] power batteries, which are so cheap. You should go to China to have a look at power batteries – 20 years ago, who would have imagined that electric vehicles would be competitive. Even three years ago nobody [would have thought so]. And now you see, [they are] so competitive.
CB: That’s so true, in my Beijing apartment, we didn’t have solar panels, but we did have EV charging points.
PJH: Right? So that means the infrastructure, everything is under your own control, you will not be reliant on capitalists. So that is the difference, right? Infrastructure. That’s why I say the “loss-and-damages fund” does nothing. Just zero-carbon transition, zero-carbon energy, zero-carbon development, zero-carbon welfare, zero-carbon well-being.
CB: To take China as an example, do you think that there’s more public consciousness around zero-carbon development? EVs makes sense because they were subsidised until recently –
PJH: They’re not subsidised any more. But you’re right, in the past it was. Everything, at the very beginning, was. Just like how when new babies are born, you should take care of them. That’s true for everything new. That’s natural, like a plant – in the very beginning when it’s a seed then you need to take care of it. But when it grows and becomes mature, then it can stand on its own and be competitive.
CB: So then, from the consumer’s point of view, are people interested in solar panels on their rooftops, recycling, things like that?
I think that this [consumer-based approach] is comprehensive and is inclusive. Everybody can contribute, to zero-carbon, to plastics, to energy, right? If you reuse materials, then you will reduce emissions. You would delay the depletion of fossil fuels. Right? So this is one of the approaches. All approaches combined leads to consensus, which is a Chinese value.
Renewables are competitive, electrical vehicles are competitive and batteries have huge potential, and everybody has high expectations that these batteries would become more and more competitive, and then every household, every school can be an independent unit. I call it “prosumerism”. Production of solar and [wind] turbines fuels generation of electricity, that’s production right? And consumption is kitchen utensils, heat pumps, air conditioning, light, everything – consumption. And then you have your storage – power batteries, right? Because of the intermittency of solar, the challenges can be resolved through power battery storage.
So I use the term “prosumerism”. Production, consumption and storage all in one, right? You do not require a very capital intensive power grid. That’s very impressive. And also, this is consumer sovereignty – when you have your own system, you have a say and then…you are not totally reliant on the power grid. If [the grid operators] say something is wrong, then you have no control, if they increase the price, then you have to accept it, you have no argument, everything is under their control. With prosumerism, everything is under your own control. I call it consumer sovereignty.
So why should developing countries spend money and waste money on the power grid? Just [adopt] an independent prosumerist system.
CB: I think the EU and the US now recognise they need to catch up with China’s solar industry, and we see them recognising the benefits of nurturing their “baby” industries –
PJH: Let me tell you, the EU and the United States, they always say one thing and do another, they’re very contradictory. Why did China suddenly become number one in zero-carbon renewables? It’s simply because the United States and Europe used anti-dumping subsidies and section 301 investigations in 2010. Then the Chinese competitive products, solar panels, were not able to go to the world market, so we thought we should do everything ourselves – then suddenly we should install everything inside of China and immediately China became number one in the world. Now you see the United States and Europe again say “no, it’s [a question of] supply chain security”. Right? This is really self-conflicting. On one hand they say “climate security”, on the other they say their “own security”. They don’t care about others, they don’t care about the climate. Because Chinese products are the most competitive in the world. If they are competitive, then everybody gains the lowest cost for installation of solar and wind.
CB: That’s very valid from a consumer point of view. I think everyone recognises that China is growing its renewable capacity at such a high rate, but can it sustain that indefinitely? Or will renewable energy eventually plateau? And at what point will it plateau?
PJH: I think that this is a good question. You know, for everything we have a process of very, very slow progress and then, suddenly, we have acceleration and we go to maturity. Once you get to maturity, you do not [need as much support], because, [like] human beings…once you are big enough, you do not require too much to eat, you do not require more food, right?
It’s the same, when zero-carbon energy is sufficient to meet your demand, that is enough. You do not need to produce more for nothing, for wasting, right? So that answers your question, that is when we have sufficient capacity, then there’s no need to produce more for China. But we do have [to have] such capacity, [because] we need renewables. We do have to have new technologies, right? It’s progress for China.
Now I think that we are developing very fast, we want to have everything competitive enough to phase out fossil fuels, through the market process. Not command and control. Use market forces to phase out fossil fuels because now, you see solar electricity, wind electricity, it’s only a fraction of coal-fired electricity, that’s still competitive. And now the intermittency challenge is resolved through storage, because what we need is energy services. We do not require carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide is nothing.
CB: To clarify, you’re not talking about phasing out unabated fossil fuels, you’re talking about phasing out all fossil fuels?
PJH: I think that abated fossil fuels is a false statement. Because abated is not compatible, they have no competitiveness. When you abate it, it is more expensive. You think the consumers are silly? They will simply vote for competitive[ly priced] electricity. Right? So, I think that abated fossil fuels is a false statement. It does not stand. You know what I mean?
It is really a silly statement. I’ll give you an example – gasoline automobiles. Nowadays in China, you see the young people, who cares to buy [gasoline vehicles]? You have no market at all, nobody cares, nobody buys. Purely electric vehicles – that’s the market. Gasoline vehicles, no matter if they are ‘abated’ or ‘unabated’ – nobody cares. This is one illustrative example. So, the [idea of] abated fossil fuels really is nonsense. Nonsense.
CB: You mean that both the idea of unabated and abated fossil fuels are nonsense?
PJH: Both. Zero-carbon renewables are so competitive. They simply bring more employment, more revenue, better health and wellbeing. Right? And they give zero-carbon emissions. There are multiple wins.
CB: We’ve seen reports of particularly local governments building more coal capacity, perhaps to boost local economic growth. What do you think it would take –
PJH: You are right. In all societies, different people and different groups have different interests. For fossil fuels, in the past they were so powerful. They want to keep their power, they want to keep their influence, they want to keep their monopoly. It’s understandable. I don’t care at all – “okay, you do it”. But the next day, you guys realised it was wrong.
So I don’t care at all, [even though] so many people say in China local governments and state power companies are investing a huge amount in coal power. Never mind. They will be phased out automatically through the market. As I said, it is not command and control [that will drive the energy transition]. It’s market forces. It’s market power. Believe in market power.
CB: I heard someone make the argument that, as China tried to control the impact that the Covid-19 outbreak had on the economy, that coal interest groups may have lost some of their power and ‘new energy’ interest groups may have gained some power. Would you agree?
PJH: Well, we really don’t need to worry about this. The coal and fossil fuels industries are very powerful – state-owned and state-dominated. Very powerful. But I think “Okay, you are powerful. But, the sooner solar is [widely adopted], everybody can do it themselves, then we do not have to rely on them. We can let them be.” No matter how powerful they are today, I have no confidence that they will continue to hold a monopoly in the future, like the automobile sector. You know, in China automobile companies were state-owned companies, and so powerful in the past.
Now the evidence shows that fossil fuels are fossils. They are a thing of the past, they have no future. That’s why I think the global stocktake at COP28, the direction is wrong. We say “Oh the emissions reduction gap.” The gap is nothing.
CB: So what language do you expect to see out of the global stocktake?
PJH: The current language is wrong. [We talk about] responsibility sharing, carbon emissions reduction. But everybody will say “No, I will not [accept] any limits. You want to limit me, I want to do more.” This is human psychology, right? And so you say “No limits, you just do what you can.”
Zero-carbon renewable energy will bring employment, growth of the economy, wellbeing and a better environment. One example is electric vehicles: 100 kilometres (km) of drive, in China’s case, requires 12 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity. 1 kWh of electricity, if you use solar together with power storage, would cost four, or at most five, US cents. Only five cents. That means that, less than one dollar – maybe 60 cents – will give you 100km distance, right? Using gasoline costs 10 times more. Consumers have the choice, it’s as simple as that.
If everybody knows that, who would say “Oh I want more fossil fuels, I want more emissions”? Emissions [would be] nothing, nobody [would need to] care about emissions. So I think that we should go in the right direction. Renewables, zero-carbon, that’s the right direction. Renewables, power batteries, electric vehicles, heat pumps. All of these are [good] for development, for quality of growth, for quality of living. That is the right direction, instead of [focusing on] “limit, limit, reduction, reduction”. Psychologically, nobody would accept limits. So that’s the logic – for growth, for the environment, for better wellbeing, that’s the logic.
CB: Will this be accelerated by expected reforms to the power spot market?
PJH: The power spot market, that’s also what the monopoly people will say. Right? And then if we [adopt the] prosumerism system, there’s no need to reform, right? We have millions and billions of [sources for] prosumerism. One household is a prosumerist unit. The market has nothing to do with the individual prosumerist system. Right?
So only the monopoly people will [call for] “reform”, and through reform they gain more power, they gain more monopoly. The prosumerism system will destroy such monopolies. I have my own system, I consume the electricity I generate, I can have everything stored in my own battery and I drive my electric vehicle. I have an independent, self-sufficient system. With monopolies – like the oil companies – the price is so volatile, because they want it to be volatile, so they can monopolise more and they can control the price. Now with electric vehicles, the oil companies are not able to control the drivers. Reform has nothing to do with it.
CB: Moving towards a zero-carbon society?
PJH: Exactly, that’s why [we are advocating for] the prosumerism system…we are going to do it inside China and then we’re going to introduce it to the world. We see a zero-carbon energy prosumerism system as a solution to a carbon neutral world. And then, in the prosumerist system, all the oil companies, all the fossil fuels – they are nobody, they are nothing. Consumers, households, they won’t care [about the fate of these companies]. That’s the solution, instead of price reform – that’s really the wrong direction. I am very confident that we have a solution, that’s the zero-carbon prosumerism system.
CB: Thank you professor. And, for my last question: do you talk to your friends and family about climate change?
PJH: Of course! Global warming is not global warming, it’s global boiling. We cannot stand, our biodiversity cannot stand, our future will not be able to sustain. So we have a solution – that’s renewables, and just renewables. Renewables are good for welfare, for wellbeing, for growing the economy, for a better environment. It’s for everybody and for the future. Fossil fuels are not for the future.
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Cutting emissions from buildings and transport across the UK could yield billions of pounds in economic “co-benefits”, leaving people healthier and better off, a new study finds.
The research calculates that meeting sectoral climate targets out to 2037 could result in at least £164bn worth of benefits in six UK urban centres, from Belfast to Manchester.
The UK-wide figure is likely to be far higher, say the authors, because this analysis only covers a handful of regions and does not account for all the co-benefits, including the impact cutting emissions would have on climate change.
Some right-leaning politicians and media outlets like to claim that the UK’s net-zero policies should be abandoned due to “excessive” costs. This has led to many inaccurate claims about the “cost of net-zero”.
Yet official analysis for the UK government has repeatedly concluded that the lower costs of running clean technologies and cutting reliance on fossil fuels will likely save money, offsetting much of the upfront investment costs.
The new study, published in the Journal of Environmental Studies and Sciences, argues that while such running cost savings are significant, they are dwarfed by the “social benefits” of net-zero. These include the economic benefits of improved air quality, less congested roads and warmer homes.
The researchers calculate that around four-fifths of the economic gains from cutting building and transport emissions over the next decade will be social benefits. This is mostly due to fewer people driving cars, with far-reaching consequences for everyone’s health.
‘Cost’ of net-zero
Climate sceptics and some right-leaning politicians have seized on the “cost of net-zero” as an argument to weaken climate policies or abandon the target altogether.
This rhetoric cut through when the previous Conservative government rolled back core climate targets, citing the burden on “hard-pressed British families”.
The recent election saw both the Conservatives and Reform UK spreading misleading messages about the cost of net-zero. Typically, they chose to ignore the cost of business-as-usual, plus cited costs but not benefits or omitted the costs of failing to tackle climate change.
Achieving the UK target of net-zero emissions by 2050 will require significant investment in low-carbon infrastructure. Government advisors at the Climate Change Committee (CCC) place the figure at £50bn a year by 2030 – mostly delivered by the private sector.
Yet the CCC and others have also stressed that these numbers do not account for the financial benefits of net-zero. Ultimately, the lower costs of driving electric cars, heating well-insulated homes and cutting reliance on gas are expected to save people money, offsetting most of the cost of net-zero investments.
But even this is only part of the story. Moving to a low-carbon economy is also set to bring all sorts of other benefits, including cleaner air, less traffic and improved health.
These “co-benefits” of climate action have been “side-lined in many economic analyses”, according to the new study. This is partly because it is hard to place a value on things that lack data, are difficult to quantify or vary depending on location and context.
Amid pushback against net-zero, the paper argues that it is essential to quantify these co-benefits. Study co-author Ruaidhrí Higgins-Lavery, a senior carbon analyst at the Edinburgh Climate Change Institute, tells Carbon Brief:
“At the end of the day, we need to decarbonise – we have a legal commitment – and the way we do that will have massive implications across economic and social barriers…If you incorporate co-benefits into the decision-making process, we can have a more balanced deployment of measures.”
Among Higgins-Lavery’s six co-authors, two have affiliations at the consultancy PwC and two at the consultancy Your Climate Strategy. The latter describes its focus as “designing and delivering ambitious climate strategies” for local authorities, businesses and other organisations.
Case for action
The study focuses on six major urban regions – three in England, one in Scotland, one in Wales and one in Northern Ireland – which are home to 13% of the UK population. They are Belfast, Cambridgeshire and Peterborough, Glasgow, Greater Manchester and Liverpool.
It assesses policies that would allow the UK to meet “sixth carbon budget” targets for transport and buildings in these areas, out to 2037. (The CCC says nearly half of the emissions reductions required over this period will need to come from these two sectors.)
The analysis covers around 750 measures that would collectively help curb emissions by the sixth carbon budget target of 78% by 2035, compared to 1990 levels.
In total, the researchers find that this programme of action for achieving the sixth carbon budget would generate £179bn in total benefits in these regions. Accounting for investment costs, this amounts to £164bn in net benefits.
These benefits are made up of three components. First, the researchers use “best-practice UK government methods” – including the Treasury’s own “green book” – to assess the financial costs and benefits of investing in low-carbon homes and transport.
Their assessment finds that the investment required to electrify transport, build charging stations and replace gas boilers with heat pumps is significantly offset by the energy savings and lower costs of running these technologies.
Overall, the analysis concludes that these regions would need to invest £14.5bn, but would save £23.2bn – meaning a saving of £8.7bn over this period.
Second, the researchers assess the “carbon case for action” by converting the emissions savings from policy interventions into monetary values.
They use the UK’s own “carbon value” calculations, which are the costs the government says are associated with cutting a tonne of carbon dioxide (CO2), and are used to gauge the impact of climate policies. This results in savings of £13.6bn.
However, while the financial and carbon benefits are substantial, the study concludes that £142bn – or 79% of the total benefits – are “social”.
In order to arrive at this figure, the team uses a range of well-established methods to convert everything from warmer homes to reduced traffic accidents into monetary values.
The chart below shows how the social benefits of the transport and building policies set out in the new study far exceed the investment needs over the sixth carbon budget period. It also shows that social benefits are significantly larger than financial and carbon benefits.
Higgins-Lavery notes that while they attempted to be as comprehensive as possible, the team’s calculation of total benefits is likely an underestimate. This is because many major benefits that could arise from cutting emissions, including avoided harm to food supplies and lower heat stress, were “beyond the scope” of their analysis.
Cutting cars
The study concludes that by far the biggest co-benefits come from reducing the number of cars on the roads. Instead, people would depend more on public transport, walking and cycling.
The resulting dip in congestion and increase in physical activity accounts for 86% of the social benefits identified. Among other things, cities would see lower healthcare costs due to fewer car accidents, less air pollution and fitter populations.
The researchers note that their estimate of per-capita health improvements resulting from transport sector policies is between four and 13 times higher than previous studies.
This is largely due to their optimistic estimates of how much people will choose to walk or cycle. The authors defend this assumption on the basis that it is still lower than the active transport rates seen in the Netherlands and Denmark, and similar to those seen in Paris.
Higgins-Lavery tells Carbon Brief that all of this highlights the importance of different policy decisions made on the path to net-zero:
“If we don’t prioritise things like active travel – if we instead prioritise switching to electric vehicles – we could miss out on a lot of social benefits.”
As it stands, the UK’s highest-profile net-zero transport policies have focused on electric cars. The government has a target to deliver a “world-class cycling and walking network in England by 2040”, but this has been hampered by years of underinvestment.
Citing this as a key example, Higgins-Lavery and his colleagues write that co-benefits are “significantly affected by value-based decisions” made during the policymaking process.
With this in mind, they call for organisations such as the CCC to be clearer about the assumptions that inform their advice to the government.
(The research group’s work will inform the CCC”s upcoming seventh carbon budget, which will include an assessment of “non-monetary benefits and costs”.)
‘Lopsided picture’
Overall, the authors argue that accounting for co-benefits can help to make the economic case for net-zero and “overcome ideological barriers” to climate action.
Prof Sam Fankhauser, a climate change economist at the University of Oxford who was not involved in the new study, welcomes the new paper. He tells Carbon Brief:
“Most net-zero cost studies acknowledge [co-benefits], but don’t actually quantify them. This produces a lopsided picture since the qualitatively assessed benefits get forgotten and the focus is on the hard cost numbers.”
He notes that focusing on transport and buildings alone means the authors “chose sectors where the indirect benefits of action are particularly pronounced”, compared to other sectors such as power and industry.
However, Fankhauser says this is “swings and roundabouts”, considering that, for example, the direct costs of decarbonising buildings are higher than for the power sector.
Dom Boyle, study co-author and director of net-zero policy and economics at the consultancy PwC, notes that the public is “not particularly aware” of the co-benefits of net-zero. He tells Carbon Brief:
“There has been a reticence from previous governments to communicate these benefits to the public, which has not been matched by the relish the right-wing press show in communicating the dis-benefits.”
This is despite the CCC estimate that nearly two-thirds of the emissions cuts required to meet the UK’s net-zero target will depend on individual choices and behaviours.
Bob Ward, policy and communications director at the Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment, who was not involved in the study, says co-benefits should not be viewed as merely “coincidental” by-products of climate policy. He tells Carbon Brief:
“It is far more accurate to talk about the multiple benefits of smart policies that address the great environmental crises, and these should be central to any cost-benefit analysis.”
The post Net-zero transition will deliver at least ‘£164bn in benefits’ to UK appeared first on Carbon Brief.
Net-zero transition will deliver at least ‘£164bn in benefits’ to UK
Photo by Suzy Hazelwood from Pexels
Episode 96: Crafting Compelling Personal Climate Change Stories
In this month’s Citizens’ Climate Radio episode, host Peterson Toscano and the CCR teams introduce a fresh approach to climate change storytelling by exploring personal stories as metaphors. While these stories are not explicitly about climate change, they reveal truths and perspectives that resonate with our climate work. Join us to discover how personal narratives can enhance and diversify our stories about climate change. You will also learn expert storytelling tips to apply when telling stories about climate change.
Using Personal Stories as Metaphors
Peterson challenges us to use personal stories, which hold significant meaning and energy for us, as metaphors for climate change. These stories, often about transitions, conflicts, or breakthroughs in our lives, can draw powerful parallels to our climate efforts. You’ll hear two compelling stories from the Citizens’ Climate Radio team members Erica Valdez and Horace Mo, each reflecting personal growth and resilience.
Horace’s Story: A Journey of Friendship and Belonging
Horace Mo shares his experience of moving from China to the USA as a 16-year-old. Navigating a new culture and language, Horace found support and friendship in his roommate Kai, who helped him overcome language barriers and cultural differences. This story of adaptation and support mirrors the collective effort needed in climate work, emphasizing the importance of community and mutual aid. Horace reflects, “My English ability soared like a rocket with the help of Kai and other students at school. For the first time, I sensed a personal belonging to the school community.”
Erica’s Story: Confronting Hidden Challenges
Erica Valdez recounts her high school friend Sophia’s (not her real name) struggles with college applications due to her parents’ undocumented status. Erica’s story highlights the hidden challenges marginalized communities face, drawing a parallel to the often-overlooked impacts of climate change on vulnerable populations. It emphasizes the need for empathy and support in both personal and climate-related contexts. Erica notes, “Witnessing her stress made me ask, how many people are going through something similar?”
Making Climate Connections
Peterson tells a story about a toxic, abusive relationship and reveals how this personal relationship mirrors society’s relationship with fossil fuels. He also encourages listeners to see the climate connections in Horace’s and Erica’s stories. Both narratives reflect themes of fear, support, and overcoming obstacles—common experiences in the climate movement. We can create more relatable and engaging narratives that resonate with diverse audiences by relating personal stories to climate issues. Peterson emphasizes,
We need stories that reveal the power of climate change solutions. We need stories that unveil the driving force behind our efforts in addressing climate change. We need stories that unveil the driving force behind our efforts in addressing climate change. Stores that unearth how climate change affects some people differently than others. Stories that will inspire us to keep going.
Nerd Corner: The Economic Impact of Climate Change
In the Nerd Corner, Citizens’ Climate Research Coordinator Dana Nuccitelli discusses the economic impacts of climate change. Using lizards as an analogy, Dana explains how extreme weather events and shifting climates can stunt economic growth, emphasizing the urgent need for swift climate action to mitigate these effects. Dana states, “Most economists agree the faster we act on climate change, the better it will be for the economy. That’s especially true if we use a market-based solution like putting a price on carbon pollution. That way, we can see the true price of products, including their climate costs, like a chameleon turning off its camouflage.”
Listen Now
Why Climate? Featuring James Earl Hollywood III
In the new segment, Why Climate?, volunteer James Earl Hollywood III shares his motivation for climate action. A father of nine from Maryland, James highlights how environmental degradation disproportionately affects marginalized communities and underscores the importance of inclusive and collaborative climate solutions. James shares, “Climate change is not just an environmental issue; it’s a human rights issue that affects every aspect of my life.”
About James
James Earl Hollywood III is a dedicated husband, father of nine, minister, and author with a deep commitment to social change and community empowerment. He is pursuing a doctorate in Social Leadership, combining his extensive academic background in Criminology, Public Administration, Communications, and Implementation Science with his passion for advocacy and leadership.
James has been actively involved with organizations such as the Citizens’ Climate Lobby, Americans for Prosperity, and various advisory groups, leveraging his expertise to drive meaningful change. Known for his dynamic leadership and ability to inspire others, James continues to make a positive impact through his work, striving to create a better, more equitable future for all.
If you want to share with us why you work on climate change, let us know. Contact details below.
Good News: CCL’s Successful Climate Conversations Campaign
Tamara Staton, CCL’s Education and Resilience Coordinator, reports on the success of CCL’s recent campaign, which sparked over 27,000 climate conversations across all 50 states. This grassroots effort demonstrates the power of personal engagement in driving climate action and raising awareness. Tamara concludes, “Each conversation is a step towards greater awareness and collective action.” Read more about how CCL volunteers are breaking the silence around climate change. Find out about other actions and monthly campaigns by visiting CCLUSA.org/action.
Stay Connected and Share Your Story
Peterson invites listeners to share their personal stories and how they connect to climate change. Whether through social media, public speaking, or personal conversations, sharing these narratives can inspire and motivate others in the climate movement. Consider submitting your story to Citizens Climate Radio. See contact details below.
Listener Survey
We want to hear your feedback about this episode. Please fill out our short survey.
Join the Conversation
Engage with other listeners and share your thoughts on our social media channels. Follow and connect with us on X, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, and TikTok.
Tune in next month for more inspiring stories, expert insights, and actionable climate solutions. Together, we can make a difference, one story at a time.
We Want to Hear from You
- Email: radio @ citizensclimate.org
- Text/Voicemail: 619-512-9646 (+1 if calling from outside the USA.)
Shoutouts to the following people and groups for the ways they promote us through social media: On X (FKA Twitter): Michael Cooper, the Arkansas chapter of CCl, Frances Stewart, M.D, Robert D. Evans, Bill Nash, Jane Haigh, 1.5, CCL Alameda, CCL Bellevue, Washington, and Jean Lloyd Larson. On TikTok: Linda Jay Reed, JackAsh007, Jan Cleveringa, Climate Countdown, The Green Journey, and Dr. Dana R. Fisher.
Next Month
Dr. Dana R. Fisher wrote Saving Ourselves: From Climate Shocks to Climate Action. She will tell us about her book and read from it. We will also include students from Bucknell University who created soundscapes of how they feel about climate change. Plus, there are new installments of the CCL Youth Corner, the Resilience Corner, and our latest feature, Why Climate?
Production Team:
- Written and produced by Peterson Toscano, Horace Mo, Erica Valdez, Dana Nuccitelli, and Tamara Staton.
- Technical Support: Ricky Bradley and Brett Cease
- Social Media Assistance: Flannery Winchester
Music is provided by epidemicsound.com
Transcript Ep. 97 Crafting Compelling Personal Climate Change Stories
SPEAKERS
Horace Mo, Peterson Toscano, Dana Nuccitelli, Tamara Staton, Erica Valdez, James Earl Hollywood III
Peterson Toscano 00:00
Welcome to Citizens Climate Radio your climate change podcast. In this show, we highlight people’s stories, we celebrate your successes, and together we share strategies for talking about climate change. I’m your host Peterson Toscano Welcome to Episode 97 of Citizens Climate Radio, a project of Citizens Climate Education. This episode is airing on Friday, July 26 2024. In the nerd corner, Dana Nuccitelli. Through the help of some lizards, reveals the costs associated with climate change. Tamaris Staton shares good news about over 20,000 Climate conversations in one month. We also premiere a new segment to the show, Why Climate. A father of nine tells us why climate change is the issue he has dedicated his free time to addressing.
Peterson Toscano 00:54
But first, we are taking a deep dive into a new type of climate change storytelling, one that may revolutionize the types of stories you tell. Today, we are going to explore personal stories as metaphors. These stories have energy behind them because they’re meaningful to us. But they’re not explicitly climate change stories. Instead, they could reveal a truth or a perspective that we can relate to some aspect of our climate change work. You will hear three different stories. Two of these come from CCR team members Eriic Valdez and Horace Mo. I gave them each the following assignment.
Peterson Toscano 01:43
Share a meaningful story from your life and experience. But do not write specifically about climate change, the environment, or nature. Consider moments of transitions in your life. conflicts or breakthroughs. Include specific details about people places, things and settings. Express your emotions and share your feelings in different parts of the story. The assignment is essential for helping us craft compelling stories that capture and retain the listener’s attention.
Peterson Toscano 02:19
Erica and Horace both recently graduated from college, and they chose stories from their time as high school students. They wrote their first drafts and shared them with me, and I gave them lots of feedback. In both cases, they needed to add more details about the people in the story. They also needed to add emotion. Their stories had endings, but these needed to be strengthened. Storytelling is a craft. It requires humility and patience so that we can receive feedback. A first draft may be good, but it must be much better.
Peterson Toscano 02:54
My husband is a professional writer and teaches creative writing at a university. Even as an award-winning author, he recognizes that his first draft is incomplete. He shares his writing with me and with his writing friends, he listens to our feedback, makes changes, and works on it to make it better and better. This work is crucial, and you will be rewarded for your hard work. First, let’s hear Horace’s story. Horace added music and sound effects to make it pop. But listen for the details he includes and the emotions he references. Also, be aware of the feelings his story stirs up for you.
Horace Mo 03:34
A 16-year-old boy carried two black 50-pound suitcases alone and flew across the Pacific Ocean from China to the USA. It was the boy’s first overseas trip and he landed in an old boys boarding school in Salzburg, Pennsylvania. While the boy was excited about the new educational opportunities awaiting him, he was concerned about assimilating into a completely unfamiliar living environment. Even worse, he could barely speak fluent English. At that point, he was ill-informed about American culture. That boy was me.
Horace Mo 04:11
While facing the uncertainty and being far from home as a teenager, I was fortunate to meet my first year roommate Kai, a Black 16 year old from San Francisco who is devoted to soccer and always possesses contagious and joyful giggles I didn’t know it then but Kai would become one of my best lifetime friends.
Horace Mo 04:30
The first several months of school were tough for me. I had a hard time fully comprehending class lessons due to my limited English. For a similar reason, I could not easily converse with my peers. I sometimes felt extremely discouraged when I saw pure confusion on their faces, and they could not grasp my true intention in my broken English phrases. Luckily, my school teachers and classmates were lenient with me and passionate about helping me out. Kai, however, was one of the first people who volunteered to help me with my English learning he waited patiently for at least several seconds, and through me, I encouraging look whenever I stumbled over words or failed to find the right English word or expression. He also played a crucial role in adjusting my English pronunciation and grammatical usage. Although jokingly named my English-speaking Morse Code since it was often hard for him to understand to the full extent. He was always welcoming and friendly whenever I needed help with English. Not surprisingly, my English abilities soared like a rocket with the help of Kai, teachers, and many other students at school.
Horace Mo 05:34
I am grateful for their help and kindness. For the first time, I sensed a personal belonging to the school community. Not only did Kai help me with my basic English learning, but he also invited me to stay with his family in San Francisco for the Christmas break. We trekked the landmark hilly roads, saw the Apple headquarters, and walked across the Golden Gate Bridge. He also introduced me to some of his friends, who greeted me with excitement and warmth. Kai’s family also show me superior hospitality. Kai’s mom, Miss Natalie, told me about the origins of Christmas in local traditions in San Francisco. She took me out to local restaurants to try Polish and Vietnamese food. Mr. Natalie always assured me a safe and comfortable stay at their place. Throughout the trip with Kai in San Francisco, I felt cared for, loved, and valued, similar to how I would feel back in my original home with my parents in China.
Horace Mo 06:26
I am grateful that I met Kai in high school. It was a period of personal growth and friendship I could never have imagined before I started my academic journey in the US. He supported in helping me with English and his passion for taking me to his hometown gave me a sense of belonging and joy why I needed help most.
Horace Mo 06:45
In return, I invited her to go to China with me over the spring break during our senior year at high school. I was proud to showcase my hometown, the city of Chongqing, which is the origin of delicious meal called hotpot. Within the city we witnessed the magnificent view of the cityscape on the top of the highest local mountain, visited a Buddhist nunnery and experienced the art of Chinese calligraphy at home. While Kai stay in Chongqing was sure he was impressed by his engagement with the cultural and entertaining activities in Chongqing. His traveling widened his understanding of China and tightened the friendship bond between him and me. I’m sure my story with Kai will continue throughout our lifetime, as he’s a true friend, a teacher and a brother from another mother to me.
Peterson Toscano 07:32
And you may be thinking, great story. But what on earth does this have to do with climate change? On the surface, nothing at all, though as a metaphor, it touches on themes and feelings familiar to those of us doing climate work, Horace entered a new world and felt fear. He couldn’t succeed alone. So he developed meaningful relationships as he navigated this new world.
Peterson Toscano 08:02
Now, let’s listen to Erica story. Again, pay attention to the details She includes and the feelings you experience listening to her story. After she’s done, we’ll unpack both stories to see the climate connections.
Erica Valdez 08:18
Throughout high school, I couldn’t wait to graduate and move on to the next step: college. I was fortunate enough to have very supportive parents who encouraged higher education as a path for me and my siblings.
Erica Valdez 08:30
When it came time to apply for schools, I had a friend who didn’t know much about the process. I won’t use her real name today for privacy purposes. So we’ll call her Sophia. Picture this: we were high school seniors ready for this exciting next step. Sophia and I were close friends, we were on multiple sports teams together and shared classes. So we spent a lot of the day with each other. Sophia was outgoing, always bubbly and chatting away in our friend circle and during practices.
Erica Valdez 08:59
Our senior year, we took time in our classes to learn about school options in California and how to apply for them. Sophia asked me questions like, How do I know what school I’m applying for? What’s the California State system? And do we really need to pay for each application? I thought these questions seemed obvious. Hasn’t she talked about this before? When she asked these questions aloud, people laughed and expected her to find the answers herself. I could tell she was very stressed out about the process. I mean, I was stressed too, because this was a very big step in our lives.
Erica Valdez 09:28
But it came to a point where she stopped asking questions. She stopped talking to me about her applications. As deadlines approached, Sophia finally told me what was wrong. She was having trouble with school applications because although she was a citizen of the United States, her parents were undocumented. This prompted questions that I hadn’t thought of before. What does this mean? What issues does this cause? I learned that that this made it difficult to fill out general parent information, financial aid forms, and most importantly, her parents weren’t able to support her because they just weren’t familiar with college applications. I had just stepped into uncharted territory.
Erica Valdez 10:04
At first, I thought most of my friends are Hispanic, I’m Hispanic, we make up the majority of that school. Surely I can support my friend through this. Even surrounded by this community, a community where immigration is so common, I realized I had never had a conversation about it. I had never thought about someone so close to me dealing with these issues of immigration. And I had never been in a situation in which I tried to support them through it.
Erica Valdez 10:31
Back in 2019, people didn’t openly talk to others about their immigration status. There was a fear that didn’t need to be verbalized. It’s a fear that stopped my friend from seeking help and a fear that even stopped me from talking to my parents about it. That day, I realized how ignorant I was to issues that I didn’t face. Although I was surrounded by countless people who are probably going through something similar. I was never exposed to conversations about it. I did my best to support Sophia as a friend; I would answer the questions that I could, try to walk her through the application steps, and encourage her to seek advice. But I didn’t understand the magnitude of the situation. Witnessing her stress made me ask, “How many people are going through something similar?
Peterson Toscano 11:16
Are you hearing any themes that remind you of your climate work? I heard the challenge of talking about a topic that many people want to avoid, a topic that is both personal and political. Like Horace, Erica was faced with something new, something she didn’t know a lot about. The next step I had Erica and Horace take was to talk to each other about their stories. I asked them how they might pivot their stories to a climate-related issue or theme. Doing so will expand the types of climate change stories we tell. This goes beyond trying to convince others that climate change is real or serious. People need to hear all kinds of stories related to climate change. Because it is a multifaceted topic that intersects with so many other issues, here’s their conversation.
Erica Valdez 12:14
When talking about this problem that I had when I was younger, I had no idea that it would relate to issues about climate change. And the more I talked about it, the more I realized, wow, this has a lot of common themes. One of those things is that climate change is like immigration, such a silent topic. I mean, we’re so scared to talk about climate change. This could relate to climate change because people without documentation are so fearful of talking about it that it just goes unsaid. And it’s a very hush topic, like climate change.
Horace Mo 12:43
Yeah, I totally agree with you. And I do think that’s a really solid point that people who do not have legal documentation status in the United States will definitely feel more afraid of asking for help or asking for assistance from the government because they may fear, the risk of getting deported, of getting exposed about their illegal status. This will be especially vulnerable for people who are undergoing climate crisis right now, you know, after severe flooding or forest fire events, people who are sharing this illegal status in the United States, they might be going through some obstacles that we could never ever imagined.
Erica Valdez 13:30
Yeah, and I actually had when I was younger, a couple of experiences where I had to evacuate because of wildfires right in my backyard, basically. Talking about this story, I realized that Sophia probably would not have had the opportunity to evacuate and ask for help from people around her, from the government, or from her insurance. I mean, there would just be so many issues that would come from being from parents who are undocumented and having family members who had that fear, and they wouldn’t be able to ask for the same things that I was able to ask for.
Horace Mo 13:59
Yeah. So speaking of fear, in my story, I also talk about the fear of being unfamiliar with a new environment, especially why just arriving in the United States as a non-native English speaker, that fear, unlike the fear that you mentioned in the story, my fear of unfamiliarity also brings me that sense of anxiety and uncertainty about people or strangers that have never met before. But I do think there’s a common or a shared element between these two different types of fear that it drives people to be curious about the issue, especially for people who are observing this or for people who have already recognized this issue in society and for people who are undergoing this kind of fear, anxiety and uncertainty, will inspire them to talk about those issues to other people that they will trust and this could be a good way for them to relieve their stress.
Erica Valdez 14:56
There is also this fear of needing to know everything about a topic before you start talking about it or before you ask questions about it. And I see this a lot in the people around me when we talk about climate change. They think that because they’re not experts they can’t really ask questions or talk about it or have an opinion on it even. And we see this a lot in our personal stories. I mean, if we’re not educated on a subject to full capacity, you know, we feel like we can’t really talk about it. But that’s not the case, we should be encouraging each other to be curious, like you’re saying, and ask questions and ask for help because we need the support in all these issues.
Horace Mo 15:30
On top of that, just being able to open up and be able to seek for assistance, even though it could be much more difficult for people without the legal documentation. But I do think their own positions out there, like CCL or Sierra Club, which are doing a great job in society to uncover those underrepresented communities in the United States, and also just offering generous help to the more vulnerable communities. Like the people you mentioned in your story. Furthermore, I think there’s that benefit of getting to know new people just like me. When I first arrived at the school, I wasn’t expecting to make close friends like Kai, but you know, throughout the process, you might miss somebody that you strike a chord with that you just appreciate so much. Those people that you could meet on this new path to join the climate campaign couldn’t become your new friends. Not only you will learn a lot from them, but also those people will learn so many new things about you.
Erica Valdez 16:32
It’s super important. I mean, you never know what other people are going through. I think your story is super inspiring, for being in a new place and being able to ask for that help.
Horace Mo 16:41
So, listeners, here are the ways that you can connect your personal stories to a climate issue or to climate action. There are so many more examples that you can find in your daily life. And hopefully, those personal stories would help you stay motivated in your climate work or just prompt you to make a further step or whatever that you would do to protect our environment and convince more people to join our sideline.
Erica Valdez 17:09
It’s super important to find different ways to motivate ourselves through our climate work in taking personal stories like this that may seem like hardships or obstacles to inspire us is definitely an important way to do this.
Horace Mo 17:21
Yes, because there’s always a way to find help. And there are always organizations or entities out there to offer you to help. Stay connected.
Peterson Toscano 17:33
Horace and Erica, thank you so much for sharing your stories and making these connections for us. I’m in awe of the two of you. Seriously, when you collaborated on this episode, you were physically very far apart from each other. So ,well done. You see Horace is based in China and Erica is on the West Coast. What’s that 15 hour time difference? Amazing.
Peterson Toscano 17:57
In a moment, I will tell you one more story and connect it to climate change. To summarize, though, we need a variety of climate change related stories that cover the multitude of human experiences. Yes, we need stories that will help people take the threat of global warming seriously, but we also need stories that reveal the power of climate change solutions. We must share stories that unveil the driving force behind our efforts in addressing climate change. Stories that will inspire us to keep going. Stories that unearth how climate change affects some people differently than others. This takes hard work imagination and collaboration. Like Erica and Horace, find someone who will listen to your story and give you feedback so you can improve it, workshop the story and tinker with it. Struggled to find the connections and most likely you will.
Peterson Toscano 18:56
Here are three final points I want to impress upon you. Number one, when trying to make climate connections, not every story will work and some will work better than others.
Peterson Toscano 19:01
Number two, some stories are too personal to share. Not all of our stories are meant for the general public. They may be too revealing or intimate to share if you feel uncomfortable telling a personal story because it’s too personal. Respect that feeling. It may be the story you only share with a loved one.
Peterson Toscano 19:31
And number three, tell your own story, not someone else’s. At first, Erica wasn’t sure how to tell her story because it didn’t feel like it was hers. It was about her friend. After the first draft, though, we gave her feedback to help her talk about her part of the story, her feelings, and the challenges she faced. If your story includes someone else, ask yourself, “What is my part of the story to tell?”
Peterson Toscano 20:00
With that said, I’m about to break my own rule. I have a story a friend shared at a climate storytelling workshop I led. She is unavailable to tell it herself for this episode, but she said she would love for me to share it with her blessing, especially if it would help people better understand the concept of connecting personal stories to climate change. This is Tabitha’s story I share with her consent.
Peterson Toscano 20:36
Tabitha grew up in Southern California but then moved to Las Vegas, Nevada, and lived with her boyfriend. At first, things were going well; they both had jobs, and they enjoyed each other’s company. But over time, the relationship got tense; the boyfriend became more and more demanding. In fact, Tabitha realized she was in the middle of an abusive relationship. Although he never physically harmed her, there was a lot of mental and emotional abuse. As her life became more and more enmeshed with the boyfriend and she became more and more estranged from her own family in California, she decided she needed to move out. She needed to go back home to Southern California. But how? Her whole life was tangled up with this man, their finances, their home, their friends. Iit would be starting all over from scratch.
Peterson Toscano 21:36
One day, she had the courage to pack up a few things and take off while her boyfriend was at work. As she drove West, with the mountains ahead of her, she began to immediately have doubts. “This is too big of a change. How am I going to do something completely new? How am I going to make money? How is this going to work?” She began to waver. And as she did, suddenly, there was an unexpected downpour of rain. It rained so hard. She had to pull over.
Peterson Toscano 22:21
It was in the midst of that rainstorm, that she heard her own voice speaking to herself. “Just keep going. Just get over the mountain, then keep going.” And she did. She got over that mountain. She got back to Southern California. Her family helped her put her life back together. And now she is married with a lovely man who respects her and her intellect and her creativity and they have a beautiful son together.
Peterson Toscano 23:14
Now, what on earth does that have to do with climate change? I asked Tabitha. I was like, “Okay, this is a beautiful story. It’s powerful. It’s personal. It’s it’s meaningful. But But what does have to do with climate change?” Tabitha said, “Well think about it. We are in this deep relationship with fossil fuels. It started out well as a society, fossil fuels helped us and things seem to be going well, but we became more and more dependent upon them. And over time, it’s become a toxic relationship, quite literally in that there are toxins in the air that are making us sick.” She said, “Like the relationship I was in, that toxic abusive relationship, I needed to break free. We need to break free from our dependence on fossil fuels. But it’s so hard because everything is entwined. You just can’t walk away. It’s in every aspect of our lives. But that’s not an excuse to just sit in a toxic, abusive relationship. We need to keep going. We need to get over the hurdles that are ahead of us and keep going.”
Peterson Toscano 24:27
I love that story. And I thank Tabitha for giving me permission to share it with you.
Peterson Toscano 24:33
Once we have fully crafted our stories and made connections to climate change, what do we do next? Well, share your story in every venue. That makes sense. It could be on a Facebook page or as an op-ed in the newspaper. You might talk about it publicly at an Earth Day event or Toastmasters. You can share it with a friend over lunch. You can share it with fellow climate advocates to inspire them and deepen their understanding.
Peterson Toscano 25:03
I would love to hear one of your personal stories and how you connect it to climate change. You may have a story, and you do not yet see the connection to climate change. It would be great to share the story with the audience and we can see what connections they make. Feel free to email me radio @ citizens climate.org That’s radio @ citizens climate.org. You can also call our listener voicemail at 619-512-9646. I will repeat these contact details at the end of the show or just visit CCL usa.org/radio.
Peterson Toscano 25:35
Coming up Dana Nuccitelli in the Nerd Corner answers the question, just how much will climate change drag down the economy? We also introduce a new segment to our show Why Climate? James Hollywood a Citizens Climate volunteer tells us what motivates his Climate Action. Plus Tamara Staton shares a good news story about tens of thousand of climate change conversations. Stay tuned.
Peterson Toscano 26:23
Now it is time for the nerd corner hosted by Dana Nuccitelli, Citizen Climate’s Research Coordinator.
Dana Nuccitelli 26:32
Hi, I’m Dana Nuccitelli, CCL research coordinator, and this is The Nerd Corner.
Dana Nuccitelli 26:44
I’m here to highlight some interesting new climate research for the nerds out there, and to make it understandable for the nerd curious.
Dana Nuccitelli 26:56
In this episode, we consider the question, “Just how much will climate change drag down the economy?”
Dana Nuccitelli 27:14
Economics experts agree that climate change will damage our economy by causing more extreme weather events. But there’s a vigorous debate about just how expensive and expensive those damages will be. To understand this complicated debate, let’s use a lizard as an analogy. Yes, a lizard, like a Komodo dragon, a gecko, or a chameleon. It’s possible that an extreme weather event could create one-time costs that governments pay for. Think of this like a young lizard losing and regrowing its tail. The little lizard won’t be happy losing its tail all the time in traumatic events; it will require extra energy to regrow its tail, but eventually, it will develop into a pretty normally sized adult lizard.
Dana Nuccitelli 27:59
A second possibility is that shifting to a hotter climate with more extreme weather will slow the growth of the economy. This is like a young lizard whose growth is stunted. By the time it reaches adulthood, this lizard will be much smaller than normal. stunted growth makes a big difference because its effects accumulate over time.
Dana Nuccitelli 28:19
A third possibility is that worsened extreme weather events have a persistent impact on the economy. The impact may not be permanent, but it could last for perhaps a decade. It is actually not all that bad. Once we stop global warming, its impact on economic growth will also stop within about a decade. This is like a young lizard whose growth is temporarily stunted, but it then resumes once the root cause is removed. The quicker the problem is solved, the better off the lizard will be in adulthood.
Dana Nuccitelli 28:52
Most Recent research suggests that this third scenario might be true for the economy. And so quickly stopping climate change by reaching Net Zero climate pollution could save tens to hundreds of trillions of dollars in wealth for the next generations. That’s why most economists agree the faster we act on climate change, the better it will be for the economy. That’s especially true if we use a market-based solution like putting a price on carbon pollution. That way, we can see the true price of products, including their climate costs, like a chameleon turning off its camouflage.
Dana Nuccitelli 29:32
I’m Dana Nuccitelli with The Nerd Corner. Thanks for being curious and for your commitment to climate progress. To join the discussion about climate science, technology, Economics, and Policy with the CCL research team, check out the nerd corner at CCLusa.org/nerd-corner That CCLusa.org/nerd-corner. I hope to see you there.
Peterson Toscano 29:58
If you have a question for Dana, email us at radio @ citizens climate.org. We will make sure he gets it. To read more of Dana’s analysis, visit CCLusa.org/nerdcorner.
Peterson Toscano 30:15
This month, we premiere Why Climate a new regular feature of our show. We speak with climate action figures engaged in some sort of climate-related work and ask them, Why Climate? Out of all the issues crying out for your attention. Why this issue? Today we feature a volunteer for Citizens Climate Lobby, James Hollywood.
James Earl Hollywood III 30:40
I live in Ellicott City, Howard County, Maryland. I was born and raised in Southeast Missouri. I’m a father of nine, African American. I love to walk in nature. I just love the outdoors. But I’m also what you would call someone that is more of a moderate. Growing up I have witnessed the impacts and environmental degredation on marginalized communities. These experiences instilled in me a profound understanding that climate change is not just an environmental issue. My reflection and this lifelong commitment towards social change. It’s ensuring that everyone regardless of background has the opportunity to live a healthy in a sustainable environment. I believe in the power of community and the importance of giving voices to those who are often unheard. These beliefs have driven my efforts to bridging gaps and building strong, inclusive coalitions for climate action.
James Earl Hollywood III 31:37
Working with diverse groups of people, I see that climate solutions can unite us. It transcends political and social boundaries. My dedication towards this work is deeply personal. As a father, I’m driven towards the desire to create a more sustainable and adjust world for my children, your children, our generations and future generations. I want to see them inherit a planet that is thriving, where there’s clean air and clean water not just luxuries, but basic human rights. One of the most fulfilling aspects of this work is seeing the positive changes that collaborative effort can bring. Whether it’s advocating for renewable energy projects or supporting like local climate initiatives, or lobbying for comprehensive climate policies. Every action that we take brings us closer to a better future. So that’s Hhy Climate.
Peterson Toscano 32:42
That was CCL volunteer James Hollywood the third. He lives in Endicott City, Maryland. Thank you, James for letting us know why you are seeking climate change solutions. For you listening if you would like to be on the show to explain Why Climate? email me radio at citizens climate.org Or call our voicemail line 619-512-9646 I will repeat these contact details at the end of the show or visit CCL usa.org/radio.
Peterson Toscano 33:25
Our good news story today comes from Tamra Staton CCLs education and resilience coordinator take it away Tamara.
Tamara Staton 33:32
In April, Citizens Climate Lobby set an ambitious goal to mobilize its network and spark meaningful dialogues on climate action. The results have been nothing short of remarkable. Over 27,000 conversations took place, and the numbers are still growing. Citizens Climate Lobby’s campaign didn’t just stay within the confines of their established network. It’s spread far and wide, reaching 1000s of participants across all 50 states. The impact was felt across various platforms with over 40,000 Social media impressions from CCLs national accounts alone.
Tamara Staton 34:05
The campaign’s success can also be measured through the 579 feedback forms submitted by participants providing valuable insights and stories from these climate conversations. Interestingly, just over 60% of these events were associated with Earth Day, but volunteers also participated in a wide variety of settings from Toastmasters meetings and city council gatherings, to green thumb festivals, book clubs and electric vehicle fairs. CCL volunteers found numerous opportunities to discuss climate change.
Tamara Staton 34:36
This campaign highlights the power of personal engagement and grassroots activism in driving climate action. It’s a testament to the dedication of CCL volunteers who are willing to step up, start conversations, and inspire others to take action. Such efforts underscore the importance of local and personal advocacy and addressing global challenges like climate change. Each conversation is a step towards greater awareness and collective action. The success of CCL’s campaign demonstrates that when individuals come together with a common purpose, they can achieve extraordinary outcomes.
Tamara Staton 35:09
So here’s to all the incredible Citizens Climate volunteers who made this campaign a success. Your efforts are making a difference, one conversation at a time. Let’s continue to engage, inspire and drive the change we wish to see in the world to find out about other monthly campaigns visit CCLusa.org/action. Back to you, Peterson.
Peterson Toscano 35:33
Thank you, Tamra. By the way, I just looked at the CCL conversations page, and I see there are now over 35,000 reported conversations. You can join the Campaign by Visiting CCLusa.org/conversation.
Peterson Toscano 35:57
And that was Tamra state, and CCL is education and resilience coordinator. You’ll hear her next month in the Resilience Corner. Email me if you have good news you want to share on the show: radio @ citizens climate.org. That’s radio @ citizens climate.org.
Peterson Toscano 36:12
As I said earlier in the show, I would love to hear your personal stories and how you connect them to climate change. My team and I also welcome your feedback, suggestions for guests or topics, and any good news you like to share. Feel free to send us an email radio @ citizens. climate.org, you can also text or leave a voicemail at 619-512-9646 and tell us your story of using art in your climate work. That email again is radio @ citizens climate.org or send a text or leave a voicemail at 619-512-9646
Peterson Toscano 36:52
Many thanks to the many people who have amplified our social media messages. On X.com thank you to Michael Cooper, the Arkansas chapter of CCl, Frances Stewart, M.D, Robert D. Evans, Bill Nash, Jane Haigh, 1.5, CCL Alameda, CCL Bellevue, Washington, and Jean Lloyd Larson. We are still building our TikTok account, which you can follow @climatechangepodcast. Thanks to the following people for their comments and repostings: Linda Jay Reed, JackAsh007, Jan Cleveringa, Climate Countdown, The Green Journey, and Dr. Dana R. Fisher, who we will have the show next month.
Peterson Toscano 37:43
Dr. Fisher wrote “Saving Ourselves: From Climate Shocks to Climate Action.” She will tell us about her book and will read from it. Next month’s episode also includes students from Bucknell University who created audio soundscapes of how they feel about climate change, plus new installments of the CCL Youth Corner, The Resilience Corner and our latest feature Why Climate?
Peterson Toscano 38:13
Thank you for joining me for episode 97 of Citizens Climate Radio. We want to hear your feedback about this episode. After you listen feel free to fill out a short survey. You will find a link to the survey in our show notes or just email me radio @ citizens climate.org.
Peterson Toscano 38:32
Citizens Climate Radio is written and produced by me Peterson Toscano, along with the CCR team, Erik Valdez, Porus, Mo, Dana Nuccitelli, and Tamara Staton. Other technical support from Ricky Bradley and Brett Cease. Social media assistance from Flannery Winchester. Moral support from Madeline Para. The music on today’s show comes from Epidemic Sound.
Peterson Toscano 38:56
Please share Citizens Climate Radio with your friends and colleagues. You can find our show wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also listen at Northernspiritradio.org You can follow us on Twitter or X, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, and TikTok. And of course, call or text our listener voicemail line at 619-512-9646, plus one If you’re calling from outside the USA. You can tell I’m really trying to get you to call, right? That number again is 619-512-9646. Visit CCLusa.org/radio To see our show notes and find links to our guests. Citizens Climate Radio is a project of Citizens Climate Education.
The post Episode 96: Crafting Compelling Personal Climate Change Stories appeared first on Citizens' Climate Lobby.
Episode 96: Crafting Compelling Personal Climate Change Stories
Photo by Suzy Hazelwood from Pexels
Episode 96: Crafting Compelling Personal Climate Change Stories
In this month’s Citizens’ Climate Radio episode, host Peterson Toscano and the CCR teams introduce a fresh approach to climate change storytelling by exploring personal stories as metaphors. While these stories are not explicitly about climate change, they reveal truths and perspectives that resonate with our climate work. Join us to discover how personal narratives can enhance and diversify our stories about climate change. You will also learn expert storytelling tips to apply when telling stories about climate change.
Using Personal Stories as Metaphors
Peterson challenges us to use personal stories, which hold significant meaning and energy for us, as metaphors for climate change. These stories, often about transitions, conflicts, or breakthroughs in our lives, can draw powerful parallels to our climate efforts. You’ll hear two compelling stories from the Citizens’ Climate Radio team members Erica Valdez and Horace Mo, each reflecting personal growth and resilience.
Horace’s Story: A Journey of Friendship and Belonging
Horace Mo shares his experience of moving from China to the USA as a 16-year-old. Navigating a new culture and language, Horace found support and friendship in his roommate Kai, who helped him overcome language barriers and cultural differences. This story of adaptation and support mirrors the collective effort needed in climate work, emphasizing the importance of community and mutual aid. Horace reflects, “My English ability soared like a rocket with the help of Kai and other students at school. For the first time, I sensed a personal belonging to the school community.”
Erica’s Story: Confronting Hidden Challenges
Erica Valdez recounts her high school friend Sophia’s (not her real name) struggles with college applications due to her parents’ undocumented status. Erica’s story highlights the hidden challenges marginalized communities face, drawing a parallel to the often-overlooked impacts of climate change on vulnerable populations. It emphasizes the need for empathy and support in both personal and climate-related contexts. Erica notes, “Witnessing her stress made me ask, how many people are going through something similar?”
Making Climate Connections
Peterson tells a story about a toxic, abusive relationship and reveals how this personal relationship mirrors society’s relationship with fossil fuels. He also encourages listeners to see the climate connections in Horace’s and Erica’s stories. Both narratives reflect themes of fear, support, and overcoming obstacles—common experiences in the climate movement. We can create more relatable and engaging narratives that resonate with diverse audiences by relating personal stories to climate issues. Peterson emphasizes,
We need stories that reveal the power of climate change solutions. We need stories that unveil the driving force behind our efforts in addressing climate change. We need stories that unveil the driving force behind our efforts in addressing climate change. Stores that unearth how climate change affects some people differently than others. Stories that will inspire us to keep going.
Nerd Corner: The Economic Impact of Climate Change
In the Nerd Corner, Citizens’ Climate Research Coordinator Dana Nuccitelli discusses the economic impacts of climate change. Using lizards as an analogy, Dana explains how extreme weather events and shifting climates can stunt economic growth, emphasizing the urgent need for swift climate action to mitigate these effects. Dana states, “Most economists agree the faster we act on climate change, the better it will be for the economy. That’s especially true if we use a market-based solution like putting a price on carbon pollution. That way, we can see the true price of products, including their climate costs, like a chameleon turning off its camouflage.”
Listen Now
Why Climate? Featuring James Earl Hollywood III
In the new segment, Why Climate?, volunteer James Earl Hollywood III shares his motivation for climate action. A father of nine from Maryland, James highlights how environmental degradation disproportionately affects marginalized communities and underscores the importance of inclusive and collaborative climate solutions. James shares, “Climate change is not just an environmental issue; it’s a human rights issue that affects every aspect of my life.”
About James
James Earl Hollywood III is a dedicated husband, father of nine, minister, and author with a deep commitment to social change and community empowerment. He is pursuing a doctorate in Social Leadership, combining his extensive academic background in Criminology, Public Administration, Communications, and Implementation Science with his passion for advocacy and leadership.
James has been actively involved with organizations such as the Citizens’ Climate Lobby, Americans for Prosperity, and various advisory groups, leveraging his expertise to drive meaningful change. Known for his dynamic leadership and ability to inspire others, James continues to make a positive impact through his work, striving to create a better, more equitable future for all.
If you want to share with us why you work on climate change, let us know. Contact details below.
Good News: CCL’s Successful Climate Conversations Campaign
Tamara Staton, CCL’s Education and Resilience Coordinator, reports on the success of CCL’s recent campaign, which sparked over 27,000 climate conversations across all 50 states. This grassroots effort demonstrates the power of personal engagement in driving climate action and raising awareness. Tamara concludes, “Each conversation is a step towards greater awareness and collective action.” Read more about how CCL volunteers are breaking the silence around climate change. Find out about other actions and monthly campaigns by visiting CCLUSA.org/action.
Stay Connected and Share Your Story
Peterson invites listeners to share their personal stories and how they connect to climate change. Whether through social media, public speaking, or personal conversations, sharing these narratives can inspire and motivate others in the climate movement. Consider submitting your story to Citizens Climate Radio. See contact details below.
Listener Survey
We want to hear your feedback about this episode. Please fill out our short survey.
Join the Conversation
Engage with other listeners and share your thoughts on our social media channels. Follow and connect with us on X, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, and TikTok.
Tune in next month for more inspiring stories, expert insights, and actionable climate solutions. Together, we can make a difference, one story at a time.
We Want to Hear from You
- Email: radio @ citizensclimate.org
- Text/Voicemail: 619-512-9646 (+1 if calling from outside the USA.)
Shoutouts to the following people and groups for the ways they promote us through social media: On X (FKA Twitter): Michael Cooper, the Arkansas chapter of CCl, Frances Stewart, M.D, Robert D. Evans, Bill Nash, Jane Haigh, 1.5, CCL Alameda, CCL Bellevue, Washington, and Jean Lloyd Larson. On TikTok: Linda Jay Reed, JackAsh007, Jan Cleveringa, Climate Countdown, The Green Journey, and Dr. Dana R. Fisher.
Next Month
Dr. Dana R. Fisher wrote Saving Ourselves: From Climate Shocks to Climate Action. She will tell us about her book and read from it. We will also include students from Bucknell University who created soundscapes of how they feel about climate change. Plus, there are new installments of the CCL Youth Corner, the Resilience Corner, and our latest feature, Why Climate?
Production Team:
- Written and produced by Peterson Toscano, Horace Mo, Erica Valdez, Dana Nuccitelli, and Tamara Staton.
- Technical Support: Ricky Bradley and Brett Cease
- Social Media Assistance: Flannery Winchester
Music is provided by epidemicsound.com
Transcript Ep. 97 Crafting Compelling Personal Climate Change Stories
SPEAKERS
Horace Mo, Peterson Toscano, Dana Nuccitelli, Tamara Staton, Erica Valdez, James Earl Hollywood III
Peterson Toscano 00:00
Welcome to Citizens Climate Radio your climate change podcast. In this show, we highlight people’s stories, we celebrate your successes, and together we share strategies for talking about climate change. I’m your host Peterson Toscano Welcome to Episode 97 of Citizens Climate Radio, a project of Citizens Climate Education. This episode is airing on Friday, July 26 2024. In the nerd corner, Dana Nuccitelli. Through the help of some lizards, reveals the costs associated with climate change. Tamaris Staton shares good news about over 20,000 Climate conversations in one month. We also premiere a new segment to the show, Why Climate. A father of nine tells us why climate change is the issue he has dedicated his free time to addressing.
Peterson Toscano 00:54
But first, we are taking a deep dive into a new type of climate change storytelling, one that may revolutionize the types of stories you tell. Today, we are going to explore personal stories as metaphors. These stories have energy behind them because they’re meaningful to us. But they’re not explicitly climate change stories. Instead, they could reveal a truth or a perspective that we can relate to some aspect of our climate change work. You will hear three different stories. Two of these come from CCR team members Eriic Valdez and Horace Mo. I gave them each the following assignment.
Peterson Toscano 01:43
Share a meaningful story from your life and experience. But do not write specifically about climate change, the environment, or nature. Consider moments of transitions in your life. conflicts or breakthroughs. Include specific details about people places, things and settings. Express your emotions and share your feelings in different parts of the story. The assignment is essential for helping us craft compelling stories that capture and retain the listener’s attention.
Peterson Toscano 02:19
Erica and Horace both recently graduated from college, and they chose stories from their time as high school students. They wrote their first drafts and shared them with me, and I gave them lots of feedback. In both cases, they needed to add more details about the people in the story. They also needed to add emotion. Their stories had endings, but these needed to be strengthened. Storytelling is a craft. It requires humility and patience so that we can receive feedback. A first draft may be good, but it must be much better.
Peterson Toscano 02:54
My husband is a professional writer and teaches creative writing at a university. Even as an award-winning author, he recognizes that his first draft is incomplete. He shares his writing with me and with his writing friends, he listens to our feedback, makes changes, and works on it to make it better and better. This work is crucial, and you will be rewarded for your hard work. First, let’s hear Horace’s story. Horace added music and sound effects to make it pop. But listen for the details he includes and the emotions he references. Also, be aware of the feelings his story stirs up for you.
Horace Mo 03:34
A 16-year-old boy carried two black 50-pound suitcases alone and flew across the Pacific Ocean from China to the USA. It was the boy’s first overseas trip and he landed in an old boys boarding school in Salzburg, Pennsylvania. While the boy was excited about the new educational opportunities awaiting him, he was concerned about assimilating into a completely unfamiliar living environment. Even worse, he could barely speak fluent English. At that point, he was ill-informed about American culture. That boy was me.
Horace Mo 04:11
While facing the uncertainty and being far from home as a teenager, I was fortunate to meet my first year roommate Kai, a Black 16 year old from San Francisco who is devoted to soccer and always possesses contagious and joyful giggles I didn’t know it then but Kai would become one of my best lifetime friends.
Horace Mo 04:30
The first several months of school were tough for me. I had a hard time fully comprehending class lessons due to my limited English. For a similar reason, I could not easily converse with my peers. I sometimes felt extremely discouraged when I saw pure confusion on their faces, and they could not grasp my true intention in my broken English phrases. Luckily, my school teachers and classmates were lenient with me and passionate about helping me out. Kai, however, was one of the first people who volunteered to help me with my English learning he waited patiently for at least several seconds, and through me, I encouraging look whenever I stumbled over words or failed to find the right English word or expression. He also played a crucial role in adjusting my English pronunciation and grammatical usage. Although jokingly named my English-speaking Morse Code since it was often hard for him to understand to the full extent. He was always welcoming and friendly whenever I needed help with English. Not surprisingly, my English abilities soared like a rocket with the help of Kai, teachers, and many other students at school.
Horace Mo 05:34
I am grateful for their help and kindness. For the first time, I sensed a personal belonging to the school community. Not only did Kai help me with my basic English learning, but he also invited me to stay with his family in San Francisco for the Christmas break. We trekked the landmark hilly roads, saw the Apple headquarters, and walked across the Golden Gate Bridge. He also introduced me to some of his friends, who greeted me with excitement and warmth. Kai’s family also show me superior hospitality. Kai’s mom, Miss Natalie, told me about the origins of Christmas in local traditions in San Francisco. She took me out to local restaurants to try Polish and Vietnamese food. Mr. Natalie always assured me a safe and comfortable stay at their place. Throughout the trip with Kai in San Francisco, I felt cared for, loved, and valued, similar to how I would feel back in my original home with my parents in China.
Horace Mo 06:26
I am grateful that I met Kai in high school. It was a period of personal growth and friendship I could never have imagined before I started my academic journey in the US. He supported in helping me with English and his passion for taking me to his hometown gave me a sense of belonging and joy why I needed help most.
Horace Mo 06:45
In return, I invited her to go to China with me over the spring break during our senior year at high school. I was proud to showcase my hometown, the city of Chongqing, which is the origin of delicious meal called hotpot. Within the city we witnessed the magnificent view of the cityscape on the top of the highest local mountain, visited a Buddhist nunnery and experienced the art of Chinese calligraphy at home. While Kai stay in Chongqing was sure he was impressed by his engagement with the cultural and entertaining activities in Chongqing. His traveling widened his understanding of China and tightened the friendship bond between him and me. I’m sure my story with Kai will continue throughout our lifetime, as he’s a true friend, a teacher and a brother from another mother to me.
Peterson Toscano 07:32
And you may be thinking, great story. But what on earth does this have to do with climate change? On the surface, nothing at all, though as a metaphor, it touches on themes and feelings familiar to those of us doing climate work, Horace entered a new world and felt fear. He couldn’t succeed alone. So he developed meaningful relationships as he navigated this new world.
Peterson Toscano 08:02
Now, let’s listen to Erica story. Again, pay attention to the details She includes and the feelings you experience listening to her story. After she’s done, we’ll unpack both stories to see the climate connections.
Erica Valdez 08:18
Throughout high school, I couldn’t wait to graduate and move on to the next step: college. I was fortunate enough to have very supportive parents who encouraged higher education as a path for me and my siblings.
Erica Valdez 08:30
When it came time to apply for schools, I had a friend who didn’t know much about the process. I won’t use her real name today for privacy purposes. So we’ll call her Sophia. Picture this: we were high school seniors ready for this exciting next step. Sophia and I were close friends, we were on multiple sports teams together and shared classes. So we spent a lot of the day with each other. Sophia was outgoing, always bubbly and chatting away in our friend circle and during practices.
Erica Valdez 08:59
Our senior year, we took time in our classes to learn about school options in California and how to apply for them. Sophia asked me questions like, How do I know what school I’m applying for? What’s the California State system? And do we really need to pay for each application? I thought these questions seemed obvious. Hasn’t she talked about this before? When she asked these questions aloud, people laughed and expected her to find the answers herself. I could tell she was very stressed out about the process. I mean, I was stressed too, because this was a very big step in our lives.
Erica Valdez 09:28
But it came to a point where she stopped asking questions. She stopped talking to me about her applications. As deadlines approached, Sophia finally told me what was wrong. She was having trouble with school applications because although she was a citizen of the United States, her parents were undocumented. This prompted questions that I hadn’t thought of before. What does this mean? What issues does this cause? I learned that that this made it difficult to fill out general parent information, financial aid forms, and most importantly, her parents weren’t able to support her because they just weren’t familiar with college applications. I had just stepped into uncharted territory.
Erica Valdez 10:04
At first, I thought most of my friends are Hispanic, I’m Hispanic, we make up the majority of that school. Surely I can support my friend through this. Even surrounded by this community, a community where immigration is so common, I realized I had never had a conversation about it. I had never thought about someone so close to me dealing with these issues of immigration. And I had never been in a situation in which I tried to support them through it.
Erica Valdez 10:31
Back in 2019, people didn’t openly talk to others about their immigration status. There was a fear that didn’t need to be verbalized. It’s a fear that stopped my friend from seeking help and a fear that even stopped me from talking to my parents about it. That day, I realized how ignorant I was to issues that I didn’t face. Although I was surrounded by countless people who are probably going through something similar. I was never exposed to conversations about it. I did my best to support Sophia as a friend; I would answer the questions that I could, try to walk her through the application steps, and encourage her to seek advice. But I didn’t understand the magnitude of the situation. Witnessing her stress made me ask, “How many people are going through something similar?
Peterson Toscano 11:16
Are you hearing any themes that remind you of your climate work? I heard the challenge of talking about a topic that many people want to avoid, a topic that is both personal and political. Like Horace, Erica was faced with something new, something she didn’t know a lot about. The next step I had Erica and Horace take was to talk to each other about their stories. I asked them how they might pivot their stories to a climate-related issue or theme. Doing so will expand the types of climate change stories we tell. This goes beyond trying to convince others that climate change is real or serious. People need to hear all kinds of stories related to climate change. Because it is a multifaceted topic that intersects with so many other issues, here’s their conversation.
Erica Valdez 12:14
When talking about this problem that I had when I was younger, I had no idea that it would relate to issues about climate change. And the more I talked about it, the more I realized, wow, this has a lot of common themes. One of those things is that climate change is like immigration, such a silent topic. I mean, we’re so scared to talk about climate change. This could relate to climate change because people without documentation are so fearful of talking about it that it just goes unsaid. And it’s a very hush topic, like climate change.
Horace Mo 12:43
Yeah, I totally agree with you. And I do think that’s a really solid point that people who do not have legal documentation status in the United States will definitely feel more afraid of asking for help or asking for assistance from the government because they may fear, the risk of getting deported, of getting exposed about their illegal status. This will be especially vulnerable for people who are undergoing climate crisis right now, you know, after severe flooding or forest fire events, people who are sharing this illegal status in the United States, they might be going through some obstacles that we could never ever imagined.
Erica Valdez 13:30
Yeah, and I actually had when I was younger, a couple of experiences where I had to evacuate because of wildfires right in my backyard, basically. Talking about this story, I realized that Sophia probably would not have had the opportunity to evacuate and ask for help from people around her, from the government, or from her insurance. I mean, there would just be so many issues that would come from being from parents who are undocumented and having family members who had that fear, and they wouldn’t be able to ask for the same things that I was able to ask for.
Horace Mo 13:59
Yeah. So speaking of fear, in my story, I also talk about the fear of being unfamiliar with a new environment, especially why just arriving in the United States as a non-native English speaker, that fear, unlike the fear that you mentioned in the story, my fear of unfamiliarity also brings me that sense of anxiety and uncertainty about people or strangers that have never met before. But I do think there’s a common or a shared element between these two different types of fear that it drives people to be curious about the issue, especially for people who are observing this or for people who have already recognized this issue in society and for people who are undergoing this kind of fear, anxiety and uncertainty, will inspire them to talk about those issues to other people that they will trust and this could be a good way for them to relieve their stress.
Erica Valdez 14:56
There is also this fear of needing to know everything about a topic before you start talking about it or before you ask questions about it. And I see this a lot in the people around me when we talk about climate change. They think that because they’re not experts they can’t really ask questions or talk about it or have an opinion on it even. And we see this a lot in our personal stories. I mean, if we’re not educated on a subject to full capacity, you know, we feel like we can’t really talk about it. But that’s not the case, we should be encouraging each other to be curious, like you’re saying, and ask questions and ask for help because we need the support in all these issues.
Horace Mo 15:30
On top of that, just being able to open up and be able to seek for assistance, even though it could be much more difficult for people without the legal documentation. But I do think their own positions out there, like CCL or Sierra Club, which are doing a great job in society to uncover those underrepresented communities in the United States, and also just offering generous help to the more vulnerable communities. Like the people you mentioned in your story. Furthermore, I think there’s that benefit of getting to know new people just like me. When I first arrived at the school, I wasn’t expecting to make close friends like Kai, but you know, throughout the process, you might miss somebody that you strike a chord with that you just appreciate so much. Those people that you could meet on this new path to join the climate campaign couldn’t become your new friends. Not only you will learn a lot from them, but also those people will learn so many new things about you.
Erica Valdez 16:32
It’s super important. I mean, you never know what other people are going through. I think your story is super inspiring, for being in a new place and being able to ask for that help.
Horace Mo 16:41
So, listeners, here are the ways that you can connect your personal stories to a climate issue or to climate action. There are so many more examples that you can find in your daily life. And hopefully, those personal stories would help you stay motivated in your climate work or just prompt you to make a further step or whatever that you would do to protect our environment and convince more people to join our sideline.
Erica Valdez 17:09
It’s super important to find different ways to motivate ourselves through our climate work in taking personal stories like this that may seem like hardships or obstacles to inspire us is definitely an important way to do this.
Horace Mo 17:21
Yes, because there’s always a way to find help. And there are always organizations or entities out there to offer you to help. Stay connected.
Peterson Toscano 17:33
Horace and Erica, thank you so much for sharing your stories and making these connections for us. I’m in awe of the two of you. Seriously, when you collaborated on this episode, you were physically very far apart from each other. So ,well done. You see Horace is based in China and Erica is on the West Coast. What’s that 15 hour time difference? Amazing.
Peterson Toscano 17:57
In a moment, I will tell you one more story and connect it to climate change. To summarize, though, we need a variety of climate change related stories that cover the multitude of human experiences. Yes, we need stories that will help people take the threat of global warming seriously, but we also need stories that reveal the power of climate change solutions. We must share stories that unveil the driving force behind our efforts in addressing climate change. Stories that will inspire us to keep going. Stories that unearth how climate change affects some people differently than others. This takes hard work imagination and collaboration. Like Erica and Horace, find someone who will listen to your story and give you feedback so you can improve it, workshop the story and tinker with it. Struggled to find the connections and most likely you will.
Peterson Toscano 18:56
Here are three final points I want to impress upon you. Number one, when trying to make climate connections, not every story will work and some will work better than others.
Peterson Toscano 19:01
Number two, some stories are too personal to share. Not all of our stories are meant for the general public. They may be too revealing or intimate to share if you feel uncomfortable telling a personal story because it’s too personal. Respect that feeling. It may be the story you only share with a loved one.
Peterson Toscano 19:31
And number three, tell your own story, not someone else’s. At first, Erica wasn’t sure how to tell her story because it didn’t feel like it was hers. It was about her friend. After the first draft, though, we gave her feedback to help her talk about her part of the story, her feelings, and the challenges she faced. If your story includes someone else, ask yourself, “What is my part of the story to tell?”
Peterson Toscano 20:00
With that said, I’m about to break my own rule. I have a story a friend shared at a climate storytelling workshop I led. She is unavailable to tell it herself for this episode, but she said she would love for me to share it with her blessing, especially if it would help people better understand the concept of connecting personal stories to climate change. This is Tabitha’s story I share with her consent.
Peterson Toscano 20:36
Tabitha grew up in Southern California but then moved to Las Vegas, Nevada, and lived with her boyfriend. At first, things were going well; they both had jobs, and they enjoyed each other’s company. But over time, the relationship got tense; the boyfriend became more and more demanding. In fact, Tabitha realized she was in the middle of an abusive relationship. Although he never physically harmed her, there was a lot of mental and emotional abuse. As her life became more and more enmeshed with the boyfriend and she became more and more estranged from her own family in California, she decided she needed to move out. She needed to go back home to Southern California. But how? Her whole life was tangled up with this man, their finances, their home, their friends. Iit would be starting all over from scratch.
Peterson Toscano 21:36
One day, she had the courage to pack up a few things and take off while her boyfriend was at work. As she drove West, with the mountains ahead of her, she began to immediately have doubts. “This is too big of a change. How am I going to do something completely new? How am I going to make money? How is this going to work?” She began to waver. And as she did, suddenly, there was an unexpected downpour of rain. It rained so hard. She had to pull over.
Peterson Toscano 22:21
It was in the midst of that rainstorm, that she heard her own voice speaking to herself. “Just keep going. Just get over the mountain, then keep going.” And she did. She got over that mountain. She got back to Southern California. Her family helped her put her life back together. And now she is married with a lovely man who respects her and her intellect and her creativity and they have a beautiful son together.
Peterson Toscano 23:14
Now, what on earth does that have to do with climate change? I asked Tabitha. I was like, “Okay, this is a beautiful story. It’s powerful. It’s personal. It’s it’s meaningful. But But what does have to do with climate change?” Tabitha said, “Well think about it. We are in this deep relationship with fossil fuels. It started out well as a society, fossil fuels helped us and things seem to be going well, but we became more and more dependent upon them. And over time, it’s become a toxic relationship, quite literally in that there are toxins in the air that are making us sick.” She said, “Like the relationship I was in, that toxic abusive relationship, I needed to break free. We need to break free from our dependence on fossil fuels. But it’s so hard because everything is entwined. You just can’t walk away. It’s in every aspect of our lives. But that’s not an excuse to just sit in a toxic, abusive relationship. We need to keep going. We need to get over the hurdles that are ahead of us and keep going.”
Peterson Toscano 24:27
I love that story. And I thank Tabitha for giving me permission to share it with you.
Peterson Toscano 24:33
Once we have fully crafted our stories and made connections to climate change, what do we do next? Well, share your story in every venue. That makes sense. It could be on a Facebook page or as an op-ed in the newspaper. You might talk about it publicly at an Earth Day event or Toastmasters. You can share it with a friend over lunch. You can share it with fellow climate advocates to inspire them and deepen their understanding.
Peterson Toscano 25:03
I would love to hear one of your personal stories and how you connect it to climate change. You may have a story, and you do not yet see the connection to climate change. It would be great to share the story with the audience and we can see what connections they make. Feel free to email me radio @ citizens climate.org That’s radio @ citizens climate.org. You can also call our listener voicemail at 619-512-9646. I will repeat these contact details at the end of the show or just visit CCL usa.org/radio.
Peterson Toscano 25:35
Coming up Dana Nuccitelli in the Nerd Corner answers the question, just how much will climate change drag down the economy? We also introduce a new segment to our show Why Climate? James Hollywood a Citizens Climate volunteer tells us what motivates his Climate Action. Plus Tamara Staton shares a good news story about tens of thousand of climate change conversations. Stay tuned.
Peterson Toscano 26:23
Now it is time for the nerd corner hosted by Dana Nuccitelli, Citizen Climate’s Research Coordinator.
Dana Nuccitelli 26:32
Hi, I’m Dana Nuccitelli, CCL research coordinator, and this is The Nerd Corner.
Dana Nuccitelli 26:44
I’m here to highlight some interesting new climate research for the nerds out there, and to make it understandable for the nerd curious.
Dana Nuccitelli 26:56
In this episode, we consider the question, “Just how much will climate change drag down the economy?”
Dana Nuccitelli 27:14
Economics experts agree that climate change will damage our economy by causing more extreme weather events. But there’s a vigorous debate about just how expensive and expensive those damages will be. To understand this complicated debate, let’s use a lizard as an analogy. Yes, a lizard, like a Komodo dragon, a gecko, or a chameleon. It’s possible that an extreme weather event could create one-time costs that governments pay for. Think of this like a young lizard losing and regrowing its tail. The little lizard won’t be happy losing its tail all the time in traumatic events; it will require extra energy to regrow its tail, but eventually, it will develop into a pretty normally sized adult lizard.
Dana Nuccitelli 27:59
A second possibility is that shifting to a hotter climate with more extreme weather will slow the growth of the economy. This is like a young lizard whose growth is stunted. By the time it reaches adulthood, this lizard will be much smaller than normal. stunted growth makes a big difference because its effects accumulate over time.
Dana Nuccitelli 28:19
A third possibility is that worsened extreme weather events have a persistent impact on the economy. The impact may not be permanent, but it could last for perhaps a decade. It is actually not all that bad. Once we stop global warming, its impact on economic growth will also stop within about a decade. This is like a young lizard whose growth is temporarily stunted, but it then resumes once the root cause is removed. The quicker the problem is solved, the better off the lizard will be in adulthood.
Dana Nuccitelli 28:52
Most Recent research suggests that this third scenario might be true for the economy. And so quickly stopping climate change by reaching Net Zero climate pollution could save tens to hundreds of trillions of dollars in wealth for the next generations. That’s why most economists agree the faster we act on climate change, the better it will be for the economy. That’s especially true if we use a market-based solution like putting a price on carbon pollution. That way, we can see the true price of products, including their climate costs, like a chameleon turning off its camouflage.
Dana Nuccitelli 29:32
I’m Dana Nuccitelli with The Nerd Corner. Thanks for being curious and for your commitment to climate progress. To join the discussion about climate science, technology, Economics, and Policy with the CCL research team, check out the nerd corner at CCLusa.org/nerd-corner That CCLusa.org/nerd-corner. I hope to see you there.
Peterson Toscano 29:58
If you have a question for Dana, email us at radio @ citizens climate.org. We will make sure he gets it. To read more of Dana’s analysis, visit CCLusa.org/nerdcorner.
Peterson Toscano 30:15
This month, we premiere Why Climate a new regular feature of our show. We speak with climate action figures engaged in some sort of climate-related work and ask them, Why Climate? Out of all the issues crying out for your attention. Why this issue? Today we feature a volunteer for Citizens Climate Lobby, James Hollywood.
James Earl Hollywood III 30:40
I live in Ellicott City, Howard County, Maryland. I was born and raised in Southeast Missouri. I’m a father of nine, African American. I love to walk in nature. I just love the outdoors. But I’m also what you would call someone that is more of a moderate. Growing up I have witnessed the impacts and environmental degredation on marginalized communities. These experiences instilled in me a profound understanding that climate change is not just an environmental issue. My reflection and this lifelong commitment towards social change. It’s ensuring that everyone regardless of background has the opportunity to live a healthy in a sustainable environment. I believe in the power of community and the importance of giving voices to those who are often unheard. These beliefs have driven my efforts to bridging gaps and building strong, inclusive coalitions for climate action.
James Earl Hollywood III 31:37
Working with diverse groups of people, I see that climate solutions can unite us. It transcends political and social boundaries. My dedication towards this work is deeply personal. As a father, I’m driven towards the desire to create a more sustainable and adjust world for my children, your children, our generations and future generations. I want to see them inherit a planet that is thriving, where there’s clean air and clean water not just luxuries, but basic human rights. One of the most fulfilling aspects of this work is seeing the positive changes that collaborative effort can bring. Whether it’s advocating for renewable energy projects or supporting like local climate initiatives, or lobbying for comprehensive climate policies. Every action that we take brings us closer to a better future. So that’s Hhy Climate.
Peterson Toscano 32:42
That was CCL volunteer James Hollywood the third. He lives in Endicott City, Maryland. Thank you, James for letting us know why you are seeking climate change solutions. For you listening if you would like to be on the show to explain Why Climate? email me radio at citizens climate.org Or call our voicemail line 619-512-9646 I will repeat these contact details at the end of the show or visit CCL usa.org/radio.
Peterson Toscano 33:25
Our good news story today comes from Tamra Staton CCLs education and resilience coordinator take it away Tamara.
Tamara Staton 33:32
In April, Citizens Climate Lobby set an ambitious goal to mobilize its network and spark meaningful dialogues on climate action. The results have been nothing short of remarkable. Over 27,000 conversations took place, and the numbers are still growing. Citizens Climate Lobby’s campaign didn’t just stay within the confines of their established network. It’s spread far and wide, reaching 1000s of participants across all 50 states. The impact was felt across various platforms with over 40,000 Social media impressions from CCLs national accounts alone.
Tamara Staton 34:05
The campaign’s success can also be measured through the 579 feedback forms submitted by participants providing valuable insights and stories from these climate conversations. Interestingly, just over 60% of these events were associated with Earth Day, but volunteers also participated in a wide variety of settings from Toastmasters meetings and city council gatherings, to green thumb festivals, book clubs and electric vehicle fairs. CCL volunteers found numerous opportunities to discuss climate change.
Tamara Staton 34:36
This campaign highlights the power of personal engagement and grassroots activism in driving climate action. It’s a testament to the dedication of CCL volunteers who are willing to step up, start conversations, and inspire others to take action. Such efforts underscore the importance of local and personal advocacy and addressing global challenges like climate change. Each conversation is a step towards greater awareness and collective action. The success of CCL’s campaign demonstrates that when individuals come together with a common purpose, they can achieve extraordinary outcomes.
Tamara Staton 35:09
So here’s to all the incredible Citizens Climate volunteers who made this campaign a success. Your efforts are making a difference, one conversation at a time. Let’s continue to engage, inspire and drive the change we wish to see in the world to find out about other monthly campaigns visit CCLusa.org/action. Back to you, Peterson.
Peterson Toscano 35:33
Thank you, Tamra. By the way, I just looked at the CCL conversations page, and I see there are now over 35,000 reported conversations. You can join the Campaign by Visiting CCLusa.org/conversation.
Peterson Toscano 35:57
And that was Tamra state, and CCL is education and resilience coordinator. You’ll hear her next month in the Resilience Corner. Email me if you have good news you want to share on the show: radio @ citizens climate.org. That’s radio @ citizens climate.org.
Peterson Toscano 36:12
As I said earlier in the show, I would love to hear your personal stories and how you connect them to climate change. My team and I also welcome your feedback, suggestions for guests or topics, and any good news you like to share. Feel free to send us an email radio @ citizens. climate.org, you can also text or leave a voicemail at 619-512-9646 and tell us your story of using art in your climate work. That email again is radio @ citizens climate.org or send a text or leave a voicemail at 619-512-9646
Peterson Toscano 36:52
Many thanks to the many people who have amplified our social media messages. On X.com thank you to Michael Cooper, the Arkansas chapter of CCl, Frances Stewart, M.D, Robert D. Evans, Bill Nash, Jane Haigh, 1.5, CCL Alameda, CCL Bellevue, Washington, and Jean Lloyd Larson. We are still building our TikTok account, which you can follow @climatechangepodcast. Thanks to the following people for their comments and repostings: Linda Jay Reed, JackAsh007, Jan Cleveringa, Climate Countdown, The Green Journey, and Dr. Dana R. Fisher, who we will have the show next month.
Peterson Toscano 37:43
Dr. Fisher wrote “Saving Ourselves: From Climate Shocks to Climate Action.” She will tell us about her book and will read from it. Next month’s episode also includes students from Bucknell University who created audio soundscapes of how they feel about climate change, plus new installments of the CCL Youth Corner, The Resilience Corner and our latest feature Why Climate?
Peterson Toscano 38:13
Thank you for joining me for episode 97 of Citizens Climate Radio. We want to hear your feedback about this episode. After you listen feel free to fill out a short survey. You will find a link to the survey in our show notes or just email me radio @ citizens climate.org.
Peterson Toscano 38:32
Citizens Climate Radio is written and produced by me Peterson Toscano, along with the CCR team, Erik Valdez, Porus, Mo, Dana Nuccitelli, and Tamara Staton. Other technical support from Ricky Bradley and Brett Cease. Social media assistance from Flannery Winchester. Moral support from Madeline Para. The music on today’s show comes from Epidemic Sound.
Peterson Toscano 38:56
Please share Citizens Climate Radio with your friends and colleagues. You can find our show wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also listen at Northernspiritradio.org You can follow us on Twitter or X, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, and TikTok. And of course, call or text our listener voicemail line at 619-512-9646, plus one If you’re calling from outside the USA. You can tell I’m really trying to get you to call, right? That number again is 619-512-9646. Visit CCLusa.org/radio To see our show notes and find links to our guests. Citizens Climate Radio is a project of Citizens Climate Education.
The post Episode 97: Crafting Compelling Personal Climate Change Stories appeared first on Citizens' Climate Lobby.
Episode 97: Crafting Compelling Personal Climate Change Stories
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