Connect with us

Published

on

Weather Guard Lightning Tech

Standardizing Rain Erosion Testing Results with Wind Power LAB’s Rocky Software

Rocky, a cloud-based software developed by Wind Power LAB is helping to standardize the analysis of rain erosion test data for wind turbine coatings. By precisely annotating damage progression in test photos, Rocky eliminates human variability in interpreting results and generating accurate velocity vs. impact (V-N) curves. This innovative tool promises to improve coating durability predictions, reduce operational costs, and accelerate rain erosion solutions for the wind industry. Visit https://windpowerlab.com/ for more info!

Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!

Pardalote Consulting – https://www.pardaloteconsulting.com
Weather Guard Lightning Tech – www.weatherguardwind.com
Intelstor – https://www.intelstor.com

Allen Hall: Welcome to the special edition of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m Allen Hall, and I’m in San Diego, warm San Diego with at ACP OM&S and I’m here with Anders Røpke, who is this founding partner and CEO of Wind Power LAB based in Copenhagen, Denmark. Welcome to the show.

Anders Røpke: Thank for the invitation.

Allen Hall: So we’re gonna have a really technical discussion, but a really timely discussion. Yeah, about rain erosion and rain erosion testing. I was just over in Denmark, went to DTU, saw the Leading Edge Erosion Conference. Fascinated, great speakers, a lot of great data. One of the main discussion points was when you run a rain erosion test on a particular coating for a wind turbine, there’s a lot of variability.

And the holy grail is to get what they call a V N curve for a coating. That’s the velocity versus the number of impacts. You should be able to draw roughly a straight line. Okay. When I was over at Copenhagen, and watching all this go on, there’s a lot of slides up about V in curves where the V in curve was up and down.

The tilt of it was all over the place. When they had done testing at different rain erosion facilities, or had tested in the same erosion facility on the same kind of sample. Getting what they thought was a different result. Now, that seems to be driven by in part, the human element. Exactly. Everything about that test is pretty well controlled and the people at R&D test systems, which designed those rain erosion rigs have made a really nice machine.

Let’s just be honest. It’s a really good machine. But as when PowerLab is determining, the issue is looking at the photos of the damage and then saying, Oh, here’s where damage starts. And this is how it propagates. That’s a human element problem that’s added to this very technical decision making. We’re making errors there.

And that’s where Wind Power LAB comes in. And at Wind Power LAB, you guys are blade experts, right?

Anders Røpke: We are blade experts. So we are actually coming from the field observation side, if you like. So we see the products when they fail. Sorry to bring the bad news, but we see leading edge erosion out there still, even though we have big LEP campaigns.

Yeah. And one thing is the application, it’s a hard environment to turn out offshore, for instance. But we also see coatings fail earlier than anticipated. And the long term effect is a lot of unnecessary cost for these wind farm owners. Because then they’re looking into yet one more LEP campaign.

Through the end of, before the end of life of this wind farm. That’s extremely expensive. Onshore, but it’s maybe 20 times more expensive offshore. It is. So if we should fix this. We should. We should. Then why don’t we try to test our products a little bit better?

And that’s where the Leading Edge Erosion Symposium you visited.

It’s really good. We get some focus on this. Oh, yeah. Because you look at the, at all the erosion test thing that is going on with our partners R&D.

Allen Hall: Yes.

Anders Røpke: You have the most sophisticated machine. You can control the droplet size, the speed and whatnot. It’s magnificent. And then it is the tons of data coming out of the system will have to be processed by some highly skilled experts, right?

Test engineers. And here the trouble starts, right? Because if we are the test engineers, you are getting your 200, 000 pictures in from the test, right? It’s fairly expensive to run the test. I look at the same data. I will almost, I’m almost certain that I can promise you that we will not get the same results.

So that means if you produce one VN curve, I’ll produce another one. Somebody Third parties should select which one is the right one. And that is what we base our product on.

Allen Hall: It is. It’s, there’s literally millions of dollars going in per year on rain erosion coatings based upon the data and the published data on the VN curves.

Anders Røpke: So when you invest in a leading edge shell, protection shell like this is something we bought from our friends at Polytech, then it’s a matter of the durability. So when will this start eroding? That’s what you basically test in a erosion test. The VN curve tells you something about when that time is, right?

Yes. And if we are incorrect, because we have some accuracy issues in our assessment between the two of us, then the durability of this product may not be better. Oh, it could be better. It could be worse. It could be worse. We don’t know. That’s the whole point.

Allen Hall: Yeah.

Anders Røpke: So with the software here. Then we assisting our leading edge protection developers or manufacturers in handling all the many thousand hours of tests coming through and tons of data.

It’s organized. You can share your your test between inside your test department, right? And then you can go first and do your test down to my test. We can do an overlay. And from that, you can actually see that we agree, right? Because we have. A more accurate view on when we start to see the erosion for the first time.

In here, you mark up with small polygons around the various items from the test results. Yes. And you should have the same picture as, or the same results as I should.

Allen Hall: Wind Power LAB has developed this piece of software. Yeah. It’s based in the cloud. It’s called Rocky, like Rocky Balboa. And what it does is it takes all those photographs from the rain erosion test.

So as the rain erosion test proceeds, it runs for a little while, then it stops and they take a high resolution photo. They started back up again. They continue the count, right? So there you have a series of photos showing increasing levels of damage over time. But the issue is How do you track that VN curve from those images?

That’s where the human element has to come in and a lot of times if they’re not using a Rocky type system They’re actually using like Excel or PowerPoint to sort through all these photos and go Oh, it was at minute 52 that this issue started that is highly interpretive.

Anders Røpke: And today we see that happening, right?

We see clients with spreadsheets and PowerPoints. And they’re really doing their best. The problem is I cannot reproduce your test result, right?

Allen Hall: Which is the ultimate point of a test. It should be reproducible. Otherwise, something is wrong with the test setup.

Anders Røpke: So we have tried to standardize. The way you should annotate in here, yes.

Not annotate, but mark up with polygons track when certain track and when something happens, you can play back and forth inside your time series to get even more accurate, the assessment results. Yeah. And by doing that we will actually be able to, the two of us will be able to come up with the same test result.

Allen Hall: So the results out of the Rocky system have been, from what I’ve seen, remarkable. Because I didn’t think the human element had played that much into the, to the results. It is, you get wide differences in basically the same test data. So if we had the same data set in front of two engineers going through it, they would pick different VN curves out of that same set of data.

That’s a problem for the industry. It is.

Anders Røpke: And then, And it’s very costly as well.

Allen Hall: It’s super costly.

Anders Røpke: Or it could be even better to ability, right?

Allen Hall: So it could go both ways. Sure. Because you ever, what the, what happens with those VN curves is that if I’m an operator, I have a rough idea of the number of water impacts of, at my site, because I track that.

It’s one of the things I track. So then I know okay, I’m going to have X many raindrops hit this material over time, therefore I have a lifetime of X. And. If that VN curve is wrong, I could be overpaying for a material. I could be having material that just fails too early again, overpaying for this thing.

So it’s a cost issue for the operator at the end of the day. And then the operators are struggling because from what I could tell, and I’m not an operator, but if I were an operator, it’d be really confused right now on rain erosion products, because we’re at ACP OMS and I run into four or five different providers of coatings.

Here, and they all saying the same thing to me, but when I talk to the operators, they say, no, like this one works in our site and that one didn’t. Yeah.

And it’s a consistency on the engineering side.

Anders Røpke: It is, but it’s not only on, the test side, but it’s definitely also on the application side out.

Sure. Oh, sure. Sure. So I’m not saying that we have a poor products on the market. I’m just saying that we need to step it up on the testing side so we sure get the correct VN curves.

Allen Hall: We need to test the variability. Exactly. But the problem is if we interpret the photos incorrectly, we don’t have any data.

We can’t make any heads or tails of that. We don’t have, we can’t sort draw on the line. Exactly. That is a huge problem. Yeah, and I think that’s where, based upon the , the number of doctorate students, ed, who really educated people that are working the rain erosion issue. Andres, you’re right. The application is really key, but also just being able to interpret the data.

It’s just a huge learning and there really isn’t any tools to them.

Anders Røpke: And then being able to share those results and reproduce those results. So we have a proper workflow that I’ll quality check your work, your analysis, and I can reproduce it. Then we are aligned and following a standardized way. That’s the dream.

It is. This is a, ladies and gentlemen, this is Lean and Six Sigma. It’s not something new. Any other industry would test their products like this.

Allen Hall: So you should be able to take the same coding to two different, essentially R&D test systems, Rainrose facilities, they’re all in Europe, and get the same results out of both sites.

Yes. That is the goal. You can’t do that today. No.

Anders Røpke: At least then it’s based on luck. Yeah. That you hit the same number inside your spreadsheets, for instance. Or whatever system you’ve developed. And then then of course we can do this for all kinds of rain erosion test facilities. And we can do this not just only for what is applied in the wind industry.

I pray for that we get some more proper testing inside the aerospace.

Allen Hall: Aerospace needs it horribly bad.

Anders Røpke: Yes, they do. That’s sad news in my ears. Yeah, that’s true.

Allen Hall: Because it’s a difficult problem. They have, the aerospace has the same problem that wind turbine engineers have. is what do you do with all this data?

How do I interpret it? Every engineer interprets it different. If you, it’s hard to be independent, especially if it’s your coding, and you’re the designer of the coding, and you’re going through the photos, you want to lean towards, ah, this is working better. It’s hard. You got to take that human element out of it to really get down to the raw data, and that, that has been the hurdle.

Rocky, though, gets rid of that, right? Rocky, takes that data, even old data. So the data you have been sitting on for two or three years in the past, you can actually put it through the Rocky system and say, okay, the real VN curve is this. So not even on, you don’t have to repeat the test.

Anders Røpke: No, where you can reuse your data if you like.

And optimize your quality in hindsight and then know where you are. Maybe you are in a really strong position. You can have the great material. Just, I know it. Let’s hope for it for us. And, but going forward. Then your entire test engineering team will have the same tool available.

If somebody leaves the company, it’s still in here. It’s still there. Yeah. And as we know from the Rocky movies, it does Rocky one, two, three, and so forth. So this is Rocky one, and now we’re generating a lot of data. And of course we are also AI side of things because all this annotation will eventually be automated.

So our test engineers can focus that time on, optimizing. And making it even more accurate in here, so you get even more accurate VN curves, right? Nobody enjoys watching these tons of images just day in and day out. No. Let’s try to, in Rocky 2, get that one fixed.

Allen Hall: Just get it yeah, as you accumulate more data in the system, that is obviously going to occur, so it’s going to get smarter as you go along.

But in terms of going back and using old data, so I can put my existing data, upload it to the cloud. process it with the Rocky system, get a better data right there. So now obviously codings have evolved. I can start comparing codings. I have, I probably have a lot of data that I can upload to Rocky, a lot of photos.

I can go track each one of them. I can start getting now real VN curves out of it. And now I have a better understanding. And as a manufacturer of a coding, now I can really help my customers say, if you have a, Site where there’s a lot of rain. You want to use this coding because they’ll usually offer more than one coding, or if I have maybe a sandy territory, I want to go to use this coding, but I think from the operator side, also, the operators are starting to go back and do some of the testing on their own and say, okay, I have this curve, I’m not really sure I want to verify, I want to verify this, but they have the same problem.

They need to have a system to go through that data logically. So they can get a true set.

Anders Røpke: Exactly. So if if you can share maybe then as an operator, you would pay for your own tests, right? Maybe you should do that. If you have a probably should have fit 10, 000 turbines and quite a huge investment in doing this, right?

Sure. So making sure that the durability is anticipated. So you can start planning for those LEP campaigns and not get surprised that you need to add one more in.

Allen Hall: Yeah. I do think the R&D test systems, rain erosion test rigs are. As good as they’re ever going to get. The technology, the one I saw at DTU is amazing.

So the technology on the test side is there. But, yeah, we just haven’t figured out the human element and eliminated it. It’s good that Wind Power LAB has stepped into that void. Because you’re Blaine experts. And you understand what’s happening out there. And you can correlate it. So now that you’re creating this data set, you guys will have a data set of these different codings, in a sense.

And plush. You have a lot of people out in the field reporting back this blade has this issue, that blade has this issue, this coating has this issue. It should start to correlate back to the data set, right? The VN curves should start to match. And feed into the innovation process of the next generation of products.

We’re moving too slow on rain erosion.

Anders Røpke: And then last but not least, this project here, or the software, this project here, Something we have commercialized now and it’s available for anyone in the industry that would like to, use it. It is something that started in a grain funded project back home in Denmark between the Technical University of Denmark and R&D Systems.

Okay. So it’s actually a good use of innovation funding. Sure. Came all the way out to the marketplace as a tool you can buy and have on subscription.

Allen Hall: It’s actionable information, which is needed today across the world. There’s two problems in the world and wind turbines, mostly.

Lightning and rain erosion. Okay. And sometimes rain erosion is more than lightning, but those are the two. Yeah. Danny Ellis from Sky Specs told me years ago, every wind turbine has rain erosion problems, every one of them. And I think that is going away, but until we have better data and people start using the Rocky system to evaluate their photos and their damage, we’re just not going to solve this problem.

It’s just going to continue on.

Anders Røpke: And eventually this could be what will save maybe one or two leading edge protection campaigns. In an offshore scenario, we have clients in Netherlands, for instance, where they save like millions in vessel costs.

Allen Hall: Oh, easy.

Anders Røpke: Because they could, get rid of some part of the scope because they were actually able to pinpoint which of the turbines that were in need of a LEP coating.

Yeah. That case could have been even better if the durability on these products applied were actually as anticipated and planned.

Allen Hall: Yeah. So the engineering results in the LAB have to match what happens in the field.

Anders Røpke: Exactly.

Allen Hall: It has to happen that way. So how do people get in contact with Wind Power LAB to evaluate Rocky and take a look at it, maybe throw some images up on the Rocky cloud?

Anders Røpke: Yeah, so you can look me up at LinkedIn, of course, and connect. I’m happy to connect with anyone that invites me. Or go to wind power app.com. Yeah. And you will find a contact phone. We’ll be in touch , and you can see our phone number. Come and visit us in Denmark or invite us for a meeting. We are happy to.

Allen Hall: How fast could they implement that system? They give you the phone calls, the auditors, Hey, I’m ready for this. Give the demo how soon before you can hook ’em up and run through it.

Anders Røpke: Basically, we need to create a use account. That’s it. That’s it.

Allen Hall: Wow.

Anders Røpke: Of course, they need to have a, the RainyMotion data.

Allen Hall: They have the photos. Yeah. Okay. But as fast as they can upload them, it’s as fast as you can process.

Anders Røpke: And of course, then a proper introduction to the tool.

Allen Hall: Sure. Sure. A little bit of training. Yeah. But that’s it. It’s pretty user, you guys make great software. So it’s pretty much user intuitive things.

Yeah. So no problem with that.

Anders Røpke: And yeah, then we could discuss, another topic would be that the test results. We could open up and do maybe joint innovation on products and that whole deal, but it’s not like we’re sharing your results with anyone else.

Allen Hall: No, but hey, if you’re working with WinPowerLab, there’s a lot of smart people working there and they understand that issue.

They can help with the codings. And plus we have seen real life. Yeah. Does it make sense? It gives good advice, which is what we need. We need some good advice. Ander, this is fantastic. This is a really, this is a really innovating piece of software and it’s going to be used and it already is being used at GTU and R&D test systems.

But anybody that has an R&D test system rig can use it. Anybody who has R&D test system data can use it today.

Anders Røpke: Yeah.

Allen Hall: Amazing.

Anders Røpke: So if you have a test system with R&D today, then reach out to R&D colleagues as well. Yes. Or contacts and then we can get in touch that way as well.

Allen Hall: Wow. That’s fantastic. Anders, thanks so much for being on the program.

This is fantastic.

Anders Røpke: Thank you very much.

Standardizing Rain Erosion Testing Results with Wind Power LAB’s Rocky Software

Continue Reading

Renewable Energy

Pardalote Studies Australian Blade Erosion and Heat Fatigue

Published

on

Weather Guard Lightning Tech

Pardalote Studies Australian Blade Erosion and Heat Fatigue

Rosemary Barnes, CEO and founder of Pardalote Consulting, joins to discuss their new grant-funded study of blade erosion and heat fatigue in Australia.

Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTubeLinkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!

Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining light on wind energy’s brightest innovators. This is the progress powering tomorrow

Allen Hall 2025: Well, Rosemary, welcome back to the show.

Rosemary Barnes: Thanks, Allen. Great to be here. For, it’s been a while since we did one of these one-on-one episodes, like a, yeah, a proper, proper guest. 

Allen Hall 2025: Well, this is kind of a celebratory episode because your company, Pardalote Consulting, has been awarded, uh, some funding from the Australian Capital Territory’s government for the Energy Innovation Fund.

Rosemary Barnes: It’s a really good program that the ACT government has to try and get energy innovation In the state. It’s not a state actually, it’s technically a territory. Little more than just Canberra, the city. Uh, but there are actually quite a few, like, really interesting energy-related companies here, partly ’cause of the, the fund I think helps, but also just tracing back like, [00:01:00] uh, y- you know, in the 20-teens, Australia had a really conservative government that hated renewable energy, and the ACT government had a commitment at that time to 100%, um, 100% renewable electricity for the, the government.

And that was one of the only programs that was resulting in a lot of, um, you know, clean energy projects being built, and one of the conditions that they put on that, uh, for people that would win PPAs with the ACT was that you had to have your headquarters in Canberra. So we’ve actually got quite a few, quite a few really cool, innovative companies out of here.

Um, like Neoen’s headquarters here. Windlab, uh, yeah, was, was founded here and still has a lot of people here. Pardalote obviously, and you know, a few other companies as well. So despite it being a small city of like, I don’t know, maybe it’s up to 400,000 or something people by now, um, yeah, there is actually quite a lot going on here for energy.

Allen Hall 2025: And the Energy Innovation Fund is funded by the wind and solar operators in the area, and your particular [00:02:00] effort has really global consequences. You’re focusing on two areas involving how wind turbines survive Australia, but more, uh, of relevance is to just really tough conditions which exist not just in Australia but around the world.

What two areas are you going to focus on?

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. So the two focus areas are leading edge erosion and high temperature fatigue, which we can probably get into the definitions of those in a minute. But basically my, um– what led me to wanna have a project like this was that when I moved back to Australia in 2021, I– and I started working in O&M, uh, I noticed that the wind turbines that I would look at, the blades that I would look at here behaved really differently to the ones that I worked with overseas.

You know, es- especially with leading edge erosion, like often I would be doing a condition assessment of a, you know, a new wind farm. Um, might only have been operating for, you know, two years. That’s a pretty common time for people to get in and do a condition assessment [00:03:00] because their warranty period is about to end and they wanna, you know, make sure that everything is okay.

Um, and I would just notice that often, like 90, 100% of blades would already have bad erosion after just a couple of years, which is super-duper fast. And then there are some tools available to check, um, like what kind of erosion are you likely to experience on your site. Like is it a higher severity erosion site or a, a low severity one?

Um, and you basically, you know, the status quo globally is to just look at the annual rainfall, um, and the tip speed. And if you’ve got, you know, high for both of those, that’s a bad erosion site. And if you’ve got low for both of those, it’s a, a low erosion site. But when I plotted out the wind farms that I knew had really bad erosion problems onto, you know, a chart with those two axes, I just saw a random distribution of dots.

You know? Like, this was not– uh, this had no predictive value for Australian wind farms. And so that led me to believe that, okay, um, you know, things are a bit [00:04:00] different here. Makes sense, you know, most of the knowledge that we have about how wind turbines operate, it’s been developed and validated mostly in Northern Europe.

You know? Like it’s, it’s Denmark and the surrounding countries that had, like, the bulk of the early wind energy. First few decades of knowledge were, you know, were mostly there. Of course, there were some other, um, places that had wind turbines, but, you know, most of the The OEMs have been operating for decades, came from Denmark.

And I know when I lived in Denmark, the rain there is very different to the rain in Australia. So in Denmark, it’s basically always raining, right? Like, it’s just… Like, even if it’s not raining, you’re still gonna get wet when you go outside ’cause it’s just, like, the air has this just amazing ability to just hold onto moisture.

Um, but it’s very, very gentle. But, you know, over an entire year of most days having gentle rain, that adds up to a lot. Whereas in Australia, and especially if you go, like, north to Queensland, it rarely rains. It’s mostly just dry, and when it [00:05:00] does rain, it’s like a tap turns on, and I, I swear you will get bruised from the rain droplets hitting your skin.

You know, they just have so much energy in them. So I think that that i- you know, when you look at just the overall rainfall, you really hide something important about how erosion, um, can progress. Then, um, there’s other places in Australia that have very different characteristics. Again, they don’t have that kind of really intense rain but, you know, some of those sites are also having really bad erosion.

And so it just occurred to me, I did a lot of research, you know, into what’s going on and, you know, the academics are studying erosion a whole lot, and they’ve got, you know, a lot of standardized tests and, you know, products are developed according to these standardized tests. But the standardized tests don’t actually resemble reality, and especially they don’t resemble reality in Australia.

And so my client started asking me, “Okay, you know, the products that we have are, are terrible. We have to replace them every couple of years. It’s, um, causing big problems with also [00:06:00] the amount of energy that you’re losing.” One of the types of, um, leading-edge erosion or leading-edge problems that we have in Australia is that the, the coatings tend to peel off and make these, like, big flakes which will just massively disrupt the airflow, can cause y- you know, at least a few percent AEP loss, and maybe up to five.

And even worse than the AEP loss is the revenue loss because it affects it most at, you know, lower wind speeds. Um, you get a bigger hit than at rated wind speeds. So there’s a variety of problems going on with leading edges in Australia, which mean that I, I basically… My clients would ask, “What product should we put on to prevent having to, you know, constantly replace this?”

‘Cause it costs, like- you know, 30, $40,000 per turbine to replace the protection, not to mention, you know, one or two days of downtime. It’s expensive, and I basically, I didn’t have a good answer for them. What, what product should they put on? I don’t know. No, we, we don’t know. One, we don’t know what the [00:07:00] specific, um, characteristics are that are…

what the specific local environment, local conditions are that are accelerating leading-edge erosion, one. And two, all of the products tend to be tested around this, you know, there’s this protocol that academics have come up with, and they’ve kind of like assumed that this is representative of how things behave in the field, and it’s– I don’t think it’s particularly true anyway, but it’s especially not true in Australia.

There are a few companies that are testing to different standards. Um, definitely applaud them. But without knowing wha- what are the conditions truly like in Australia, uh, it’s really hard to advise, like, what kind of tests should you be demanding from a product you’re considering to be sure that you’re gonna put it on and not gonna be replacing it again in two years.

Allen Hall 2025: Because that’s really the trouble in Australia is when you get offered products They have been tested generally in somewhere in Europe and maybe in the United States, and then when they go to [00:08:00] Australia, it’s really unknown as to how those products will do, which is a huge risk for the Australian wind market as to what to choose, how to choose, is it– what’s real in terms of test data.

So now you’re gonna go out and do what? Are you gonna put sensors out by the wind farms? Are you gonna try to do more of a statistical summary of the actual environment around wind farms using existing data? What’s the approach here?

Rosemary Barnes: It’s all of the above, but the part that is supported by the grant is that we’re gonna have enough money to be able to buy some scientific-grade sensors and put them on, um, a sample of Australian wind farms.

So we’re gonna be looking at a lot more characteristics about the rain than simply is it raining now, you know, how many millimeters per hour. We’re also gonna be investigating, you know, every kind of characteristic of, of that, um, of that rain, um, including, yeah, like the, the energy that’s in it, for example.

A, a bunch of stuff. I won’t get into every single [00:09:00] parameter. Um, and you know, other things as well, like measuring UV, solar radiation, um, particles, because, you know, in Australia we have a lot of dirt roads, which I know is very common in wind farms around the world, but Australian dirt roa- roads are always dry and dusty, like 99% of the time, so that’s one of the things that y- you know, maybe that’s causing a difference.

Um, so basically putting sensors all over a bunch of wind turbines and then monitoring the erosion, um, a combination of some real-time monitoring and also looking at inspection, um, drone inspection images annually. We also have a- an option where we’ll just be using SCADA data and inspection images, so that’s like a lower cost version where we can combine that with the findings from the scientific-grade instrumented turbines to build up a picture of what types of conditions lead to accelerated erosion.[00:10:00]

Allen Hall 2025: So the SCADA data will, will have some information inside of it, you think, that, uh, will correlate to the weather outside?

Rosemary Barnes: It has some Additionally, we can look up, um, you know, just the weather data, like how many millimeters fell during which 15-minute interval throughout the day, what was the temperature.

SCADA will tell us also what the temperature was, um, what the speed of the turbine was, so you can calculate the tip speed, ’cause that’s an important thing. Um, yeah, so it’s, it’s two, it’s two tiers of data collection. The scientific grade sensors, as you can imagine, are, are really expensive and y- you know, the, the grant project has contributed a, a lot of funding, um, but it’s not enough to put those, yeah, put a little mini lab on top of every turbine across Australia, obviously.

So that we’re using s- doing selectively, and then we can increase the number of wind farms that are included in the study by just doing this, um, cheaper version of the SCADA [00:11:00] plus, uh, weather data that’s available.

Allen Hall 2025: So what are some of the risks on the temperature side for all the high-temperature regions of Australia that have wind turbines?

Clearly it’s generally warmer in Australia than it is in, in Scandinavia and Northern Europe. What kind of temperatures are we talking about on the ground?

Rosemary Barnes: Uh, well, temperatures here can get pretty close to 50 degrees. Um, and if you’ve ever been inside a wind turbine blade on a, even a mildly hot day, you’ll know that the temperature inside a wind turbine, and especially inside the blade, is much hotter than what it is, uh, what the ambient temperature is.

So this project is one– I’ve actually been talking about this project for, yeah, like over 10 years now. Ever since I started, I moved to Denmark, started working for a wind turbine manufacturer, I had done– I had just finished doing my PhD on composite materials, structural design, and analysis. So, um, yeah, very, very familiar with, [00:12:00] you know, how composite materials work and, in particular, the effect that temperature has on them.

I mean, like most materials, when composites get warmer, they get softer, and that is really important for a w- a wind turbine blade. You know, if it gets, um, less stiff, then you’re gonna get a lot more strain, and that is going to affect your fatigue behavior. Y- you know, fatigue is just the application of a little bit of, a small amount of strain.

It’s not gonna cause damage, but when you apply it millions, tens of millions of times, like you do in a, o- over a wind turbine’s operate, um, operating lifetime, then that builds up. And, you know, wind turbine blades are a very fatigue-driven design. Um, it’s one of the most important things to consider when you’re designing a wind turbine blade.

And so when I got to Denmark and I learned how materials are qualified and how the qualification is treated in the certification process, I just realized it’s not particularly conservative, and also that some of the assumptions that are made that [00:13:00] wo- again, they worked really well in more moderate climates where wind turbines have had most of their developmental history.

You know, it’s not such a big deal there if you test at room temperature. Your wind turbine blade is spending most of its operating lifetime at room temperature or below. It’s, it’s rarely, you know, above 30 degrees in Denmark and most of Northern Europe and, you know, also a lot of, um, a lot of America, not, not all of it But, um, in Australia it has just extended periods above that temperature and even exceeding the temperature where, you know, wind turbines have an operating limit and after that they will shut down.

But the operating limits are based on ambient temperature. It’s not based on what’s the temperature in the laminate, which is what really matters for blade lifetime. So anyway, I’ve been obsessed, like honestly obsessed about this issue for 10 years. Talked about it with anybody who would listen . But then when I started working in O&M in [00:14:00] Australia and I started seeing some wind farms with an abnormal number of cracks early…

again, early in their lifetime, you know, I think one of the wind farms I was looking at was maybe three years old or four at the time. I think it was three actually, and had a lot of cracks, and I looked at a few years in a row and it was more and more cracks every year and I’m like, “Oof, this really looks like end of life fatigue behavior.”

A- actually it’s not, y- you know, there’s this concept of a bathtub curve where, um, when you’re looking at failures in components, in, in anything, not just in, um, wind turbine blades, but you know, like you’d start– it’s called a bathtub because, you know, when it starts operating, you’ll get quite a lot of failures.

Anything big, any manufacturing defects or anything are gonna cause failures quite fast, and that kind of drops off over time as all of those, uh, get addressed. And then you have, you know, the bulk of your operating life, it’s like pretty low level, pretty, pretty constant for a long time and then as you get towards the end of the [00:15:00] life, you start to see failure rates rise up again.

That’s your fatigue failures, your end of life fatigue failures. And so when I saw the same types of cracks more and more each year, I’m like, “This looks like, you know, the foot end of the bathtub, not the head end.” And, uh, it made me worried and I’ve now seen that across a few wind farms in Australia at, um, hotter places.

There’s a few blade types that are more prone to it than others, but at this point it’s still a suspicion that that’s what’s going on. I mean, a suspicion backed by a lot of, a lot of theory and knowledge of how the certification process works. But this project now we’ve got some funding to actually go put some sensors onto wind turbines, actually learn what the temperatures are in the blades throughout the whole laminate, um, not just the, you know, on the outside surface or not just the ambient temperature, but actually, you know, develop a temperature gradient across the whole, um, the whole laminate in the blade shell.

Um, and [00:16:00] then we’re going to be doing a bunch of modeling basically to look at what is the effect of these different temperatures that blades are really seeing and how much would we expect to… that to decrease a lifetime. And then we should also be able to say, you know, if you have this issue in your wind farm, you might be able to change your operation a little bit and extend your lifetime a lot.

Because this one, it’s real– like, in contrast to leading edge erosion, leading edge erosion is just, it’s, you know, every wind turbine has it to a certain extent, and it, it’s always there, but it’s a relatively minor cost to fix it. You know, like it sounds like a lot, like 30, $40,000 per wind turbine, but, um, you know, compared to if you’ve got to replace every blade across your fleet because they’re all, you know, at the end of their life after five years, you know, that’s obviously shocking.

And, you know, that’s a bad example, but even in a y- you know, like a less extreme example, maybe [00:17:00] after 15 years you have to do a, you know, a f- a fleet-wide campaign to strengthen blades or something. It’s, you know, m- many millions of dollars for that, and so it c- could make sense to be able to learn, okay, what, what hours of operation should we be avoiding?

Additionally, because when it’s super-duper hot in Australia, usually you’ve got heaps of solar power and the electricity price is not that high. So I, I think that there– and I don’t, obviously, before we’ve done the project, I don’t know what the threshold is. But in both cases, we will be aiming to improve the knowledge of how you can operate to avoid these periods of accelerated damage.

Allen Hall 2025: Do you think you’re seeing more fatigue-like damage due to the blades operating when it’s hot or not operating when it’s hot, with maybe less airflow around the blade and maybe less cooling going on is just a temperature soak At rest? [00:18:00]

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. It’s interesting because the temperature is higher if it’s not rotating, um, because you get a whole lot of, um, convective heat, heat transfer when the turbine is operating.

So your temperatures are not gonna get as hot when operating as when they’re standing still. However, if it’s standing still, they’re only very lightly loaded. Like, yes, they’re gonna get, um, blown by, by gusts and, um, have a little bit of bending, but it’s, it’s very, very small compared to, uh, if it is y- you know, operational loads.

Uh, assuming that you’re not in the middle of a s- a storm. But yeah, a storm probably doesn’t come with 50 degrees temperatures.

Allen Hall 2025: And what part of the blade is susceptible to these higher temperatures? Is it the resin? Is it the fiberglass or carbon fiber? Or is it the, the glue, the bond joints? What part are you focused on?

Rosemary Barnes: The resin is the main part that I’m focused on. It gl- it could be an issue for glue too, actually. I haven’t even looked into what the, um, yeah, temperature assumptions are with, with glue, with [00:19:00] bond lines. But the failures that I’m seeing in the field are not, are not bond line issues. It’s, it’s, um, a laminate problem.

Allen Hall 2025: What about balsa and foam inside of the blade? Are they affected by the temperatures or are they pretty temperature stable?

Rosemary Barnes: I don’t think they’re affected at these kinds of temperatures, no. They, they don’t really do much actually. The, the core materials, like it, it is very important that they’re, that they’re there, but their job is really to keep the fiberglass separated from its- itself to make it stiffer.

So, um, yeah, that’s, that’s unlikely to be a, a major source of problems.

Allen Hall 2025: So this study is gonna work over about three years, and you have a number of wind farms that are participating. Are you looking for more wind farms to participate in Australia?

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, we can, um, have as many as, as people want to join.

We’ve got quite a good selection so far. Definitely can always welcome more. A, a bit limited in how many can get the really, um, good sensor [00:20:00]package, because the grant funding is a, you know, a certain amount, and that’s paying the bulk of those sensors. So, um, those spots are limited. So if anybody wants to really zone in on what is specifically causing erosion on their site, you know, if you know that you have got leading edge protection that is not good enough and you have to replace it soon, but you don’t know what to replace it with, then, you know, that would be the kind of wind farm that might want to consider, yeah, joining this and, um, you know, getting these sensors on their, um…

We’re putting them on top of the nacelles, most of them. Um, yeah, so that would be a good match then. Um, and then, yeah, for the ones that are doing the SCADA data and, um, weather data- There’s not such a, a hard limit on how many we can have join like that. So yeah, we can have more, more like that.

Allen Hall 2025: In the temperature fatigue effort, i- is that still looking for participants or are there particular wind turbine types or manufacturers that you’re [00:21:00] looking for to participate?

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, I think, um, I, I mean yes, we can have more of those. That’s a simpler, a, a simpler issue as well. The sensors are not so expensive and, um, it’s, yeah, it’s a, it’s a simpler project to join that one. We only need, you know, a couple of turbines per site, so it won’t be such a, uh, an involved process to get everything up on into the turbines.

And in terms of who might like to join that, I would say anybody that is in a really hot area where, you know, where they see a lot of days over 30 degrees, and if they see any days, you know, getting into the high 40s, then I would say that that’s worthwhile. Or even I have seen this issue in some milder sites, um, yeah, depending on the, on the blade type as well.

It is more common with polyester resins. They have a, a lower op- uh, maximum operating temperature than epoxy resins. But then also just anybody that has noticed just, hey, [00:22:00] we’ve got a lot of cracks, and it seems like we’re getting more and more cracks every year, which to be honest, can be hard to keep track of if you’re…

If you’ve got a full service agreement, uh, you know, an OEM managing your wind farm The early signs of this are gonna be category one and category two cracks. They’re not in exactly the same location. It’s, you know, it’s a tricky one. Normally, if you’re looking at a serial issue, then you’re going to have, uh, well, you know, your ideal pattern for a serial issue is the exact same thing happening over and over again.

And so it is harder to pull this out. It also really would be very rare for it to be happening in the first two years or three years, whatever your serial defect liability period is. So it’s quite hard. But, um, another group of wind farms that might like to consider it is if you know that in, you know, a certain number of years you have to renegotiate your service agreement or, you know, it ends and you might have to take over yourself, then this’ll be a really good way for you to [00:23:00] understand, you know, have I got a ticking time bomb here?

Um, because it’s not something that you’re gonna be aware of if you haven’t been, you know, doing some really, really in-depth shadow, shadow monitoring of your blades, you know, running your own inspections and looking at every single damage, not just category three, four, five, but lower ones. So yeah, I mean, there’s a, a wide variety of people that, that could be interested in joining.

Allen Hall 2025: Are you expecting a number of manufacturers that make leading-edge protection or involved in resin creation, some– there’s a number of resin companies and a variety of resins that are used globally, sort of interchangeably at times. Are you expecting some of those companies to participate in this effort just to learn about the Australian environment?

Rosemary Barnes: I think it would be a good opportunity to test out some products and see how they behave in the Australian context. I think that that would be a really good selling point, but I, I have to say that most of the companies doing that sort of thing that wanna enter Australia, they don’t [00:24:00] really consider…

Like, from the perspective of wind farm owners in Australia, if you can’t show us wind farms in Australia where this has worked and, you know, show us a before or after, you know, the old LEP lasted Two years and our LEP is going on four years now with no damage. It, you know, unless you’ve got a before and after like that, you can tell us however many turbines that you’ve got installed around the world, but, um, we don’t consider it validated, y- you know?

It’s not validated for Australian conditions yet. And I do have this same discussion over and over again with, you know, not just leading edge protection, but all kinds of, um, you know, manufacturers of whatever doodads that you put on to improve a, a wind turbine. It’s so different to Australia. Things break so fast.

And I’m talking everything, you know, like vortex generators fall off and, um, yeah, like, uh, you know, bits of lightning protection systems fall off, seals just [00:25:00] crumble and disintegrate. Um, and it, you know, we’re very wary of, of new products. So I, I do– I mean, I’m thinking of it more from my client’s point of view than from the product manufacturer’s point of view.

But one thing that I wanna get out of this pro- project is to be able to answer one of the most common questions that I get is, which is, what leading edge protection should I be putting on my turbine? And for now, I don’t know. I, I know a range of products that don’t work in Australia, and not much more than that.

So, um, yeah. And it’s also, you know, Australia’s a very varied place with lots of different kinds of climate too. So it’s not gonna be like, you know, the product that works in Queensland is the same one that’s gonna work in Tasmania, which is the same one that’s gonna work in Western Australia. You know, um, so it, this project is gonna really pull out what are the site specific issues you’ve got at your site and what kinds of, um, you know, tests would we need to see a product um, perform in order to know that this [00:26:00] is gonna last on your site.

Allen Hall 2025: W- what is the outcome of this project or these two projects? Are they gonna be reports or, uh, a, a continual monitoring system that’s designed for the Australian environment? How do you see this going?

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, so one part of it is, um, developing a way to identify periods of accelerated damage and to know not to operate during that time.

So we call it protective operation. Uh, so that would, uh, help you if, yeah, you’re trying to extend the life of something or increase the amount of time before you have to repair, then y- you know, that would be useful to have that knowledge. And it will be as simple as just an alert saying, “Hey, accelerated damage conditions.

Consider, you know, if you wanna keep on operating.” And, you know, if the price of electricity is super high at that time, they may want to push through, and if it’s low, they probably won’t want to. So that’s one thing. Um, especially, you know, as wind turbines get to their, near the end of their life. I’ve got some clients whose wind farms only have, you know, [00:27:00] maybe five years operation left.

They just simply don’t wanna repair their leading edge protection again. They just, they, they don’t wanna do that. So they would be happy to, you know, reduce operation a bit and have their turbine limp through to the end of the period. Y- you know, you want everything to wear out at once. You don’t want brand-new leading edge protection on a turbine that’s going to come down in a couple of years.

Um, so, you know, that’s, that’s one part of it. And then the other thing is, you know, turbines earlier in their lifetime, how can we optimize the maintenance schedule with leading edge erosion? Um, so, you know, like it’s a lot cheaper to, uh, replace the LEP if you get– catch it early, but then you don’t wanna be catching it too early and replacing it, you know, constantly when you, you don’t need to.

So, um, yeah, it, this, having this knowledge will enable a site-by-site operations and maintenance strategy with respect to leading edge protection. We also have some sites who are having trouble. They’ve got a full service agreement, and the OEM is [00:28:00] responsible for, um, doing the leading edge erosion repairs and protection replacement, but the owner is on the hook for paying for it.

At the other end, we’ve got people with full service agreements where technically the, um, manufacturer is supposed to be doing the leading edge protection and paying for it, but they argue about what, when does it need to be done. Because, you know, um, the operator might think if there’s no structural risk, then we don’t need to be replacing it.

And in the meantime, you’ve got turbines spinning around for years and years and years with, you know, these huge flakes of leading edge protection s- you know, causing the flow at the tip of the turbine to, to detach and to stall, and horrible aerodynamics, huge losses in power generation and revenue. And they’re having a big fight about, you know, is this necessary to do or not?

And then, you know, they’re just gonna put the exact same product on again ’cause the [00:29:00] OEMs are re- all really, really wedded to their own particular brand. It’s like, “Well, last time we had this product and it was factory applied, it lasted one year before it s- it was worse than, you know, if it wasn’t there at all.

Uh, we don’t really want you to put that one on again.” And so, you know, having the information that they need to be able to, you know, really bring data to these discussions and, you know, makes a, yeah, data not drama. That’s a, a good approach I think, um, for any kind of negotiation and especially in the case of leading edge erosion.

And then for the high temperature fatigue part of the problem, aside from, you know, just wanting to know are your blades aging, should you be looking at remediation action or changing the operation, the other really big key thing is, uh, you might need to have a fight with y- your OEM about if this turbine has been designed and operated correctly.

And so then having the data from this, um, project is going to give you the information that you need to come into that [00:30:00] argument with, again, the data not the drama. Um, and to, you know, in- increase your chances of succeeding in that kind of really tricky negotiation.

Allen Hall 2025: So if you’re an OEM or a manufacturer of equipment, an ISP, an operator, pretty much all aspects of wind operations, you probably ought to be getting a hold of Pardalote Consulting and Rosemary to talk about the opportunity to participate in this study.

How do people get ahold of you to, to do that?

Rosemary Barnes: People can go to our website, pardaloteconsulting.com, and get in touch via the contact form there, or you can, uh, look me up on LinkedIn, Rosemary Barnes. That’s probably the easiest, fastest way to get ahold of me personally.

Allen Hall 2025: Well, Rosemary, congratulations on the Energy Innovation Fund Awards and the new three-year effort.

If you are interested in participating with Pardalote Consulting and working with Rosemary and her team [00:31:00] in Australia, reach out to her on LinkedIn and get that process started, because this report and the data from all this analysis that’ll happen over the next couple of years will be important to the wind industry.

So you need to spend some time and get ahold of Rosemary and get this process started now. So Rosemary, congratulations. Uh, thanks for being back on the podcast, and looking forward to, uh, the next couple of years. It sh- should be exciting.

Rosemary Barnes: Thanks so much, Allen.

Pardalote Studies Australian Blade Erosion and Heat Fatigue

Continue Reading

Renewable Energy

Artificial Stupidity?

Published

on

We all understand that there are ultra-conservatives living all around us, but does anyone truly believe that our schoolteachers are ruining our society by teaching children the truth about U.S. and world history? Science? Current events?

Slavery and Jim Crow laws were bad.  Fascism is bad.  Our scientists are telling us that CO2 emissions are causing world temperatures to rise, destroying our planet’s capacity to support life.

Whom do these concepts upset?

Artificial Stupidity?

Continue Reading

Renewable Energy

No Such Thing as a “Dumb Question”

Published

on

There is nothing dumb about the question posed at left.  Democracies fail, falling into “banana republics” constantly.  The rate at which democracies become tyrannies is so great that some of them never make the news. Can you tell me anything about the governments of Eritrea or Chad?

What makes the situation in the United States is, yes, that it’s happening here in the United States, the very last place anyone would have suspected it.

You might have thought that Americans wouldn’t have voted for their nation to become Russia or North Korea.

You would have been wrong.

No Such Thing as a “Dumb Question”

Continue Reading

Trending

Copyright © 2022 BreakingClimateChange.com