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Solving Wind Turbine Pitch Bearing Problems with Malloy Wind
We interview with Cory Mittleider of Malloy Wind, a company specializing in providing bearing solutions for wind turbine applications. Cory shares insights into common pitch bearing failure modes, how Malloy Wind analyzes failed bearings to develop improved designs, and the importance of factors like grease and manufacturing processes in bearing longevity. Visit https://www.malloywind.com/ for more info!
Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!
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Allen Hall: Welcome to the special edition of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host, Allen Hall, and I’m here with my co host, Joel Saxum. If you were an owner, operator, or technician in wind, you have come across pitch bearing problems. And those pitch bearing problems can get really hard to detect early. But once you see them, they’re expensive to repair.
So Joel and I thought it was time to bring on an expert. In bearings to the podcast. So our guest today is Cory Mittleider of Malloy Wind. And Cory has an extensive background in wind bearings. Now, Malloy, if you’re not familiar, is based in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, which is in the middle of the United States.
And Malloy Wind specializes in providing solutions for wind turbine. applications. So they’re a total wind focus organization. They offer a variety of services, including upgrading gearbox bearings, blade bearings, main shaft bearings, pitch motor renewals, and generator bearings. Cory, welcome to the program.
Cory Mittleider: Hey guys, thanks for having me.
Allen Hall: So there’s so many questions about pitch bearings and just having been down in San Diego at the ACP OMNS one of the complaints is, Oh, I got a huge bearing replacement program going on this summer. And my first thought was of you were thinking, wow, you guys must be really busy because Bearings are probably after lightning, it’s lightning and then bearings were one and two of the problems for wind turbines at the moment.
Cory Mittleider: Yeah, it’s been it’s been a busy couple of years. There’s certainly standout platforms that are having their own platform specific failure modes that we’re discovering as we work with operators.
Joel Saxum: Yeah we talked a little bit off air about some of that thing. Okay, so we’re in lightning space.
We know if someone calls and says, I have this turbine with these blades, you go, Ooh, you got problems. So I know that it’s the same thing in the Bering world, generators, like you know the ones that are going to happen. So when you guys initially talk with someone, What are some of the points that you asked them right away?
Okay. They’ve called, what are we looking at?
Cory Mittleider: Sure. Sure. So to your point, it’s a lot of platform specific. We know platform X has this history of problems. Platform Y has a different set of history and platform Z is a pretty stable, pretty robust platform, for example. So we start to, to investigate, is it one of those platforms that we already know has some issues that we either maybe have something developed for, or are currently working on.
We talk about how soon are they experiencing their first failures or how are they detecting them? And most importantly, I think is how long do they plan to run the site? Are they two thirds of the way through the life of the site? Then, we probably propose a different solution to them than we do to some of the worst case scenarios where they’re having failures in the three year ballpark and they’re trying to get to 25.
Joel Saxum: Yeah, no. One of the things that we talked about was, hey, you’re on platform A. With bearings, but you have bearings B and C, same design. But different manufacturers, and sometimes you run into issues there as well.
Cory Mittleider: Yeah. It’s really interesting when it comes down to it. There’s only four parts in a blade bearing.
There’s the rings, the rollers, the seals, and the cage or the spacers, depending on the configuration. It sounds easy, right? But there are a lot of process controls quality checks, things like that. That can be done to ensure. The best long life operation. We actually got a call about three years ago from an operator in our neighborhood that said we have platform a and we have two bearing manufacturers installed across our fleet, all from original build.
The site was about 10 years old. They said, why are all of brand X failing and none of Brand Y. So we worked with them. We investigated that a little bit and we found exactly that, that the bearings are the same dimensions, from a raceway load capacity point of view they should have been the same, but what we found is it was some subtle manufacturing differences from the way the the races were hardened. control point of view. And corrosion protection of the bolt holes, for example, that were leading to that. So very small details, right? That lead to larger implications a decade later.
Allen Hall: And just seeing some of the pictures. That Malloy Wind has on its website and there’s some great technical information about bearings. So if you want to know anything about bearings, go to the Malloy Wind’s website and start looking at the technical explanation, because it’s written in English for in simple terms that even I can understand for me.
Yeah. For people like me that don’t know a lot about bearings, that was really helpful because I’m a picture person, right? I want to see how, what the, how these things break down. The pictures of these pitch bearings coming apart was fascinating because essentially, from what I could tell, it starts to degrade internally and it starts to blow out the seal.
So it starts spitting out metal parts that. Once that begins, it’s bad stuff. You really can’t fix it from there. That’s my understanding of it.
Cory Mittleider: Yeah, then maybe I’ll dive into that, right? Yeah, to your point and you mentioned right at the top that blade bearings are almost impossible to get a health assessment on.
It’s not like a high speed gearbox bearing where you’ve got vibration and temperature because it’s running fast and at full revolutions. But Blade bearings are they don’t ever go full revolution and they go so incredibly slow. So you really can’t apply any of the traditional bearing monitoring tools.
That we’re used to, right? So health assessment is incredibly difficult. Even when you look at the construction of the traditional two row four point bearing type that’s used as a blade bearing it actually stops you for the most part, for most part from even trying to bore scope them.
Joel Saxum: But you can’t access them by design.
Cory Mittleider: Yeah. Yeah, you really can’t access it. To your point Allen a lot of the times what what leaves people to look at them or operators to look at them is pitch faults. For example, especially electric pitch turbines, you’ll start to see an increase in pitch faults, asymmetry type stuff or overload over current on electric pitch.
Or I think you mentioned the seals come out, and grease leaks all over, you’ll get dirty blade ruts, and that’s a signal you can see from further away. But you may have some blade bearing health issues. What we do we and we support in the field. We don’t climb. We don’t do the installation removal, but as the bearing distributors, the bearing experts supporting these operators we’ll get pictures from the field.
We’ll get a call. What am I looking at? If they’re not used to navigating that kind of external inspection, we help that way. But when we get I say a new platform with a new failure mode. We haven’t heard of, we’ll have them replace it. We bring it back to our shop in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, and we’ll dismantle it.
And I think there’s a couple of those pictures, those dismantling pictures on the website that you talked about. It’s it’s a terrible job. It’s dirty. That grease is really sticky, especially electric pitch turbines. That tooth the open gear grease is really sticky stuff. But you work through it, you dismantle it.
Sometimes they’ve been locked up such that we had to cut the bearing in half. To get inside to see it. Other times we’re able to remove the filling plugs, pull the balls out and rotate the inner ring around. And that still takes half a day to do. So it’s a really dirty process. Then you got to clean everything after you get it dismantled.
But then we put all that diligent diligence and effort into we’re inspecting the rolling elements that came out, inspecting the raceway, looking for signs of wear. Or electrification or, what they’re called micro pitting or spalling of the raceways, things like that, that help inform the updated designs that we are offering to operators that have had these premature failure problems.
Joel Saxum: One thing you talked about offshore, and this is just a funny note when you were talking about an extreme cases. We’re like, how do they know when it fails? When does the seal go bad? When does it get enough holes in it? And you’re like, yeah, sometimes you have water that runs into the hub from the outside, or you got to put, you got to make sure you got your hard hat on when you get out of the truck, because you might have pieces of bearing falling down from the top.
Cory Mittleider: So to that point, one of the common problems in the last five or eight years has been cage failures. And I’ll emphasize this by saying none of the failures I’m talking about are, I’ll say design failures in terms of, usually when you talk about bearings, the design life is based on rolling contact fatigue, right?
The raceway fatigue. All these premature failures are other failure modes. It’s the real world. It’s the environment. It’s things like that. So in the last several years, it’s been cage failures has been a big topic, which is internal that cage will start to rub and tear up. It’ll get overrolled by the rolling elements.
It’ll get sharpened. And start to tear up that seal and evacuate and cut up that seal and that’s where the grease comes out. Eventually that cage can degrade so much that the balls begin to bunch together because there’s so much gap opened by the cage that’s missing, that was, that’s no longer there.
So I I’ve seen some where All the cage was gone from the blade side row, for example, and only about half left in the hub side row because there are two rows. And I, if I remember right, it was about 40 to 50 degrees because the balls were all bunched together. 40 to 50 degrees didn’t have any balls.
Joel, to your point then you can see straight through it. And on my shop floor, that’s easy, right? You can see the blue rag underneath. But I have heard techs tell me that they’ll be out in a hub and they’ll see all kinds of water is ingressed, or they’ll one just last week at OMS told me that he was in a hub and it was dark.
I don’t know if it was night or what was going on, but he looked and he saw starlight through the gap where balls, cage, and seal all should be blocking your view of that. Just gone.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. So As we’re recording this, I have on my other screen here, some of their technical resources go malloywind. com. And it has a bunch of tabs on there, but one of them is resources. And I’m looking at technical things. I’m looking at the ones that says blade carry blade bearing cage failures. And there’s pictures here that literally, it looks like a pineapple grenade. Like it’s just fragments Sharp fragments, right?
They look like they would if you touch them like they would just cut your hand up and there’s tons of them.
Allen Hall: I want to talk about grease for a minute because from my experience working on car engines and all kinds of rolling products, airplanes what you grease these bearings with is really critical to lifetime.
Is that part of the magic here? Not only just the way that the bearings are built and some of the hardening and the coatings, but is the grease and proper maintenance there part of keeping the bearing to have a longer life?
Cory Mittleider: Absolutely. So grease, I like to view it as grease already is.
A compromise. It’s just a carrier for oil. Oil is what you need, the lubricant that separates from the soap and gets between the balls and raceways. So definitely lubricant health is important. In all bearing applications in blade bearing specifically, because the whole bearing is turning end over end during operation, that ball can move up and down the raceway or move micro movements right around the raceway.
So the additives in the blade bearing grease does support avoiding things like false Brinelli. So that, that can be important there. But yes, the frequent relubrication cycle, some turbines it’s put a bunch in at a six month interval, walk away and come back. Other turbine models have auto lubricators, which maintain a more consistent level of grease in that bearing.
So both options do exist. And to your point Allen On the electric pitch turbines that use a, an electric motor and a pitch driver, a gear box with a spur gear on it they have teeth cut into the bearing. Most of them it’s on the inner ring, but there are a couple turbines electric pitch that use a geared outer ring.
That needs grease too, right? That needs a lubricant in place to to support that so you don’t end up with metal to metal contact and rubbing and wear on gear teeth. We actually have seen that in some turbines that Didn’t have as diligent grease applied to the gear teeth during operation as well.
Joel Saxum: Is there a certain kind of grease that you recommend or is it seasonality, right? Do you put a different grease in when it’s going to be cold if you’re in those kind of climates versus when it’s hot? Or is it Specific to a manufacturer.
Cory Mittleider: Yeah,
no, cause you can’t really purge the grease, right? It’s just, so you couldn’t say you couldn’t switch it in that scenario.
But largely we typically as the bearing supplier, we don’t really change the grease. We use what the OEM specified. But to your point we do know that some turbines have an Arctic package, which may have a different grease than the either tropical or standard. package that’s applied to the turbine so that can influence what grease is put in the blade bearings.
Allen Hall: So then the failure mode for, if it’s not grease and lubrication, the other failure mode, which I picked up from your website, was the sort of the stresses on the bearing where you take this big strong metal bearing and you shape it like a potato chip. So you’re putting this incredible stresses on those rings and on the rollers.
Is that I assume that’s built into the design though, right? Are they made to handle those stresses or is that something about the way it’s installed or the blade or how it’s operated that creates those stresses?
Cory Mittleider: With wind we often talk about say design modes is a topic of conversation.
I view it as air is invisible. They probably had a pretty good idea, but there’s, who knows what we don’t know. Whether it’s, whether she or turbulence there’s probably some unknowns going on in these applications is how I like to view it. What we do know is we do know there’s deformation to your point, right?
We do know from the failures we’ve done from the X ray analytics that our manufacturing partners have done with their FEA tools. We do know that there’s deformation going on. Everybody we’ve talked to pretty well acknowledges that yes it’s deforming. And what you’ll see when you look at that tech article sitting on our website is that one of the other failure modes to your point, Allen, is is ring cracking.
That one’s a little, it’s not a new problem. We’ve seen ring cracking and wind probably a decade ago already, but the prevalence is increasing. So it’s been a much more active topic. It’s happening on younger turbines. So it’s been a lot more active conversation for us.
Joel Saxum: Would you tie that younger turbines to larger turbines, right?
We’re talking, if you’re talking older turbines, you’re, You’re six, eight ton blades, and now you’re getting 10, 12, 15 ton blades. Is that why you’re seeing more?
Cory Mittleider: Sure. That’s how I view it too. When we look at the blade bearings support a moment, right? So that’s forced at a distance.
And when you look at the center of pressure for, from an aerodynamic load the center of pressure is further out on a longer blade. And when you look at just strictly the weight of the blade, the center of mass is further out. So at the same time as the aerodynamic load is getting higher, the weight and the bending moment from the gravity load is getting higher.
One of the diagrams that I know I have in those tech articles is we simplify it into two different load sets, the aerodynamic load and and the gravity bending moment load, just from the way we presented on the website. Obviously the FEA tools can consider everything in a very much the more complex application that it is.
But Both of those have gone up at the same time. So really and then at the same time, the blade bearing diameter has gone from maybe 1. 9 meters to 2. 5 meters. So it’s only grown by two feet, 600 meters. Approximately because that’s how you support a moment load, right? A larger diameter would reduce that applied load to the raceway.
Definitely attributed to that. We’ve seen when we talk about ring cracking in the younger turbines, it really seems like once we broke about a hundred meter rotor diameter is where that conversation has picked up for us. In in the last.
Joel Saxum: For five years, like I say, the immediate thought that came to my mind was we talk with quite a few people in Brazil and their average megawatt size down.
There’s three
Cory Mittleider: for new installations.
Joel Saxum: Yeah, for new for just the average fleets because their fleet is so young. So they’ve only installed a lot of brand new, bigger turbines. They had, they don’t have a lot of 20 year old, 15 year old turbines on. So I’m thinking to myself Man, they must, the bearing issues they must have down there.
It’s going to be fleet wide.
Cory Mittleider: To, to the point from earlier manufacturer A or B does have a reputation for certain failure modes, right? We know, we know those. And to that point we’ve, we, because of our tech articles both on our website and what we shared on LinkedIn, we have talked with operators in.
South America, South Africa, actually a couple different places in Europe. We’ve been able to set up some teams meetings and share, some of the investigation that we’ve done to help inform them where to look, how to start addressing it, both on turbine models that we know that are global turbine models, but also on some that we don’t know that aren’t installed in the U. S., but they just happen to be, similar failure modes.
Joel Saxum: So this is the important thing I wanted to get to here with Malloy wind and the awesome place you guys fill in the market. So we know that when you buy a turbine, you get whatever the OEM built for blade bearings, pitch bearings, yaw bearings, whatever that may be you.
That’s what you get. Malloy fills the space where if that fails, or if you need new ones, if you’re doing a repower, if you have some kind of issue, you guys are the experts and you have feedback mechanisms built in. So like earlier in the call or earlier in the chat here, we were talking about you guys going and Diving into the problem, getting that problem bearing or representative problem bearing of a fleet or whatever it may be back at your shop, tearing it down.
But then you guys go the next step further to provide value to the industry. Can you walk us through that?
Cory Mittleider: Yes, so that process so we work really closely with one particular manufacturing partner IMO based out of Germany. They know a lot from the analytics side, from the manufacturing side, and then also some feedback they’ve had from education globally.
But our role in the U S here is to work with those operators and collect that empirical data, right? The tear downs the, even the real world stuff. And the nice thing about working with them has been that we can use the baseline knowledge that they had from 30 years of history, little 30 years of history and wind.
In blade bearings for them and inform that and we take their, this basic part number we’ve known from from a serial production point of view and add on to that, right? We’ve added, for example, two years ago, we took a blade bearing that was designed about 20 years ago for an older turbine model, and we’ve taken all the best practices of a 2021, 2022 wind turbine blade bearing.
And applied it to that. It’s improved sealing, it’s corrosion protection, it’s different raceway hardening practices, orders of operations in in manufacturing processes that, that weren’t known back then, but we’re applying all this field education to the new product. So that’s what that looks like.
Allen Hall: I love that. That’s how the rest of the industry should work. That’s why Malloy exists, right? Because it’s hard to find somebody who knows enough about bearings to then incorporate design changes into the next generation so you don’t have those problems. There’s not a lot of Corys around. That’s why we want to have you on the podcast.
And from a Malloy Wind standpoint, you’re then Really changing the industry, right? And in a sense that you have an OEM product, it’s pretty good, starts to fail, and operators want to upgrade or put something on them that’s going to last. That’s why they’re coming to you. That’s a big change for the industry, right?
It just makes the wind industry more resilient in the long run. And that’s where we need to go. And as Joel’s pointed out many times, there’s a lot of companies that are in the wind industry that don’t do that service. Don’t provide that actionable information. And when you weren’t across one, it’s so remarkable because you just want to hold them up and say look here, this is the way it should happen.
Look at Malloy Wind. Here we go.
Cory Mittleider: That’s interesting. I so I started at Malloy almost 15 years ago now, and I started supporting other industries. And that’s that’s how we support all of the industries across our company is we look at and we’re not just say, hey, there’s a part number we can offer you that part number.
We like to ask why. I guess is what I like to say. Why are you replacing it? So that’s I guess I cut my teeth doing that learning with from our shop and to our other our other industries. And I’ve just applied the same approach as we discover problems with our wind customers too.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. At the end of the day A bearing is a wear part. Now it’s a long, a very long life wear part, right? It’s not like the brakes on your car where you’re like, yeah, it’s going to go now. They should last a long time, but they do wear down, right? Especially in industrial applications.
But you guys so let’s talk about this then when customers come to you, are they usually Hey, we’re repowering or is it like, man, we’ve got a fleet wide issue. We need to solve it. What do you think that split is?
Cory Mittleider: Yes. So repower projects aren’t as active in the aftermarket, I think. So a lot of the repowers are done with OEMs, right?
So you’re using those turnkey OEM designs that we talked about already. There are some repowers, I like to call them overhauls. Where you’re starting, I like to describe you start on the low speed side because that’s the big stuff. That’s the heavy stuff. It’s stuff takes a big crane, right?
You start at the blades, the hub and work backwards. So on those overhaul projects we are able to help offer something that I’ll say we learn of the history on that platform and apply this 2024 current generation wind. Blade bearing technology to make sure that they meet their goals. On the other hand, there are some turbines that are to your point, Jill, younger three, four, five years.
They maybe had their first failure in blade bearings two and a half, three years. They’re really striving to hit the 20. And some of these newer sites that we’re talking 25, maybe 30 year. Is the desirable time horizon to operate those sites. And if, if an application doesn’t matter what the application is if a blade bearing failed in three years that’s a big problem and you need an impactful solution.
To try and get another 22 years out of that, for example.
Joel Saxum: Otherwise it’d be replacing them every three years.
Cory Mittleider: Yeah. Yeah. We have some bigger solutions for that big of a problem and then other ones like the one I mentioned a minute ago they made it to 10 years maybe they’ll try and hit 20 and maybe they’ll try and coast a little past 20, get a little gravy on the end.
But let’s do. So we have a little bit of different tools we can apply. We have we can do a little bit better. We can update the design by that 10, 15 years, the corrosion protection, the bolt holes, larger balls, maybe things like this, we can still use the same basic bearing type. We don’t need to bake this big overhaul change like we do.
So that’s why we ask the questions we ask early on. What’s your failure rate? How old is the site? And what is your time horizon? So we can try and apply the right tool to help them meet their goals.
Allen Hall: Malloy Wind is a big resource. People should get on to your website and check out all the information you have there.
How do people get a hold of Malloy Wind and how do they get a hold of you if they have bearing issues?
Cory Mittleider: I’ve always got my email on just about any of us, right? So I definitely have my email address which is cmitleider at malloyelectric.com. Cause we are, our wind division is a part of our bigger company Malloy electric wind at Malloy electric, much easier to spell his is a good one.
We have a shared inbox shared amongst the inside team here. Or message me on LinkedIn, like Allen, you did recently. So yeah, LinkedIn website, email phone is my direct line is 605-357-1076.
Allen Hall: There you go. So if you have bearing issues, better give Cory a call. All right, Cory, thank you so much for being on the program.
Joel and I have learned a tremendous amount.
Cory Mittleider: Thanks, guys.
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German Bird Study Finds 99% Avoid Turbines, SunZia Progress
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German Bird Study Finds 99% Avoid Turbines, SunZia Progress
Allen, Joel, Rosemary, and Yolanda discuss a German study finding 99.8% of birds avoid wind turbines, challenging long-standing collision risk models. They also cover Pattern Energy’s SunZia project nearing completion as the Western Hemisphere’s largest renewable project, lightning monitoring strategies for large-scale wind farms, and offshore flange alignment technology.
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Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!
You are listening to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by build turbines.com. Learn, train, and be a part of the Clean Energy Revolution. Visit build turbines.com today. Now, here’s your host. Alan Hall, Joel Saxon, Phil Totaro, and Rosemary Barnes.
Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host Alan Hall in the queen city of Charlotte, North Carolina, where a cold front is just blown through, but we’re not nearly as cold as Joel was up in Wisconsin, Joel, you had a bunch of snow, which is really the first big storm of the season.
Joel Saxum: Yeah, the crazy thing here was the Wind Energy Podcast. So since that storm I, we, we got up in northern Wisconsin, 18 inches of snow, and then we drove down on last Saturday after US Thanksgiving through Iowa, there’s another 18 inches of snow in Des Moines. I talked to a more than one operator that had icing and snow issues at their wind farms all through the northern Midwest of these states.
So from [00:01:00] North Dakota. All the way down to Nebraska, Northern Missouri, over into Indiana. There was a ton of turbines that were iced up and or snowed in from that storm,
Allen Hall: and Rosemary was in warm Australia with other icing knowledge or de-icing knowledge while the US has been suffering.
Rosemary Barnes: But you know, on the first day of summer here, a couple of days ago, it was minus one here overnight.
So. Um, yeah, it’s, uh, unseasonable and then tomorrow it’ll be 35.
Allen Hall: The smartest one of us all has been Yolanda, down in Austin, Texas, where it doesn’t get cold.
Yolanda Padron: Never. It’s so nice. It’s raining today and that’s about it. Traffic’s going crazy.
Joel Saxum: Rain is welcome for us, isn’t it though, Yolanda?
Yolanda Padron: It’s sweet. It doesn’t happen very often, but when it does.
Very rainy for like 24 hours.
Allen Hall: We’ve been saving a story for a couple of weeks until Rosemary is back and it has to do with birds and a year long study over [00:02:00] in Germany. And as we know, one of the most persistent arguments against wind energy has been the risk to birds and permitting and operation shutdowns have been the norm, uh, based on models and predicted collision risks.
Well. A new study comes, has just come out that says, what if the models are all wrong? And the new German study suggests that they may be wrong. The Federal Association of Offshore Wind Energy, known by its German acronym, BWO Commission Research to examine. Actual collision risk at a coastal wind farm in Northern Germany.
The study was conducted by Biocon Consult, a German research and consulting firm, and funded by eight major offshore wind operators, including Sted, Vattenfall, RWE, and E, roa, and. Rosemary using some of the newer technology. They were able to track bird movements with radar [00:03:00] and AI and stereo vision cameras to, to watch birds move through and around, uh, some of these wind farms.
And it analyzed more than 4 million bird movements and over 18 months, and they searched for collision victims and what they found was pretty striking more than 99.8% of both day migrating and night migrating birds. Avoided the turbines entirely. The study found no correlation between migration intensity and collision rates.
And BD and BWO says The combination of radar and AI based cameras represents a methodological breakthrough. Uh, that can keep turbines moving even when birds are in transit. This is pretty shocking news, honestly, Rosemary, I, I haven’t seen a lot of long-term studies about bird movements where they really had a lot of technology involved to, besides binoculars, to, to look at bird movement.
The [00:04:00] 99.8% of the migrating birds are going around The turbines. No, the turbines are there. That’s. Really new information.
Rosemary Barnes: I think. I mean, if you never heard anything about wind turbines and birds, I don’t think you’d be shocked like that. Birds mostly fly around obstacles. That’s probably an intuitive, intuitive answer.
Because we’ve had it shoved down our throat for decades now. Wind turbines are huge bird killers. It’s kind of like, it’s been repeated so often that it kind of like sinks in and becomes instinctive, even though, yeah, I do think that, um, it’s. Not that, that shocking that an animal with eyes avoids a big obstacle when it’s flying.
Um, but it is really good that somebody has actually done more than just trying to look for bird deaths. You know, they’ve actually gone out, seen what can we find, and then reported that they found mostly nothing. We already knew the real risks for birds, like hundreds or thousands, even millions of times [00:05:00] more, um, deadly to birds are things like.
Cats. Cars, buildings, even power lines kill more birds than, um, wind turbines do. In fact, like when you look at, um, the studies that look at wind, um, bird deaths from wind turbines, most of those are from people driving, like workers driving to site and hitting a bird with their cars. Um, you know, that’s attributed to wind energy.
Not a surprise maybe for people that have been following very closely, but good to see the report. Nonetheless.
Joel Saxum: I think it’s a win for like the global wind industry, to be honest with you, because like you said, there’s, there’s no, um, like real studies of this with, that’s backed up by metric data with, like I said, like the use stereo cameras.
Radar based AI detection and, and some of those things, like if you talk with some ornithologists for the big OEMs and stuff, they’ve been dabbling in those things. Like I dabbled in a project without a DTU, uh, a while back and it, but it wasn’t large scale done like this. A [00:06:00] particular win this study in the United States is there’s been this battle in the United States about what birds and what, you know, raptors or these things are controlled or should have, um, controls over them by the governments for wind installations.
The big one right now is US Fish and Wildlife Service, uh, controls raptors, right? So that’s your eagle’s, owls, hawks, those kind of things. So they’ll map out the nests and you can only go in certain areas, uh, or build in certain areas depending on when their mating seasons are. And they put mild buffers on some of them.
It’s pretty crazy. Um, but the one rule in the United States, it’s been kind of floated out there, like, we’re gonna throw this in your face, wind industry. Is the Federal Migratory Bird Act, which is also how they regulate all like the, the hunting seasons. So it’s not, it’s the reason that the migratory birds are controlled by the federal government as opposed to state governments is because they cross state lines.
And if we can [00:07:00] prove now via this study that wind farms are not affecting these migratory bird patterns or causing deaths, then it keeps the feds out of our, you know, out of the permitting process for. For birds,
Rosemary Barnes: but I’m not sure this is really gonna change that much in terms of the environmental approvals that you need to do because it’s a, you know, a general, a general thing with a general, um, statistical population doesn’t look at a specific wind farm with a specific bird and you’re still need to go.
You’re still going to have to need to look at that every time you’re planning an actual wind farm. That’s it’s fair.
Yolanda Padron: And it’s funny sometimes how people choose what they care or don’t care about. I know living in a high rise, birds will hit the window like a few a month. And obviously they will pass away from impact and the building’s not going anywhere.
Just like a turbine’s not going anywhere. And I’ve never had anybody complain to [00:08:00] me about living and condoning high rises because of how they kill the birds. And I’ve had people complain to me about wind turbines killing the birds. It’s like, well, they’re just there.
Joel Saxum: If we’re, if we’re talking about energy production, the, if everybody remembers the deep water horizon oil spill 2010 in the Gulf of Mexico.
That oil spill killed between 801.2 million birds. Just that one.
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Allen Hall: well in the high desert of Central New Mexico, near a lot of what were ghost towns that were abandoned during the Great Depression.
If there is a flurry of activity pattern, energy sunzi, a project is near completion after 20 years of planning and permitting. When. It’s supposed to be finished in 2026. It’ll be the largest renewable energy project in the Western hemisphere. More than 900 turbines spread across multiple counties. A 550 mile transmission line stretching to Arizona and then onward to California, and $11 billion bet that’s being made on American wind.
Now, Joel, it’s a kind of a combination of two OEMs there, Vestus and ge. The pace of building has been really rapid over the last six, eight months from what I can [00:10:00] tell.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. We have talked to multiple ISPs, EPC contractors. Um, of course we know some of the engineers involved in building a thing on the pattern side.
Right. But this sheer size of this thing, right, it’s, it is three and a half gigawatts, right? You’re talking 900 turbines and, and so big that one OEM really couldn’t, I mean, it’s a, it’s a risk hedge, right? But couldn’t fulfill the order. So you have massive ge tur set of turbines out there. Massive set of vestas turbines out there.
And I think one thing that’s not to be missed on this project as well is that transmission line, that high voltage transmission line that’s feeding this thing. Because that’s what we need, right? That was when we built, started building up big time in Texas, the cre, the crest lines that were built to bring all of that wind energy to the major cities in Texas.
That was a huge part of it. And we have seen over the last six months, we have seen loans canceled, uh, permits being pulled and like troubles being in hurdles, being thrown up in the face of a lot of these transmission lines that are planned. [00:11:00] These big ones in the states. And that’s what we need for energy security in the future, is these big transmission lines to go.
So we can get some of this generation to, uh, to the market, get electrons flowing into homes and into industry. But this thing here, man, um, I know we’ve been talking about Sunz, the Sunz project, uh, and all the people involved in it, in the wind industry for a, what, two, three years now? Oh, at least. Yeah.
It’s been in planning and development stage for much longer than that. But the. The, the big bet. I like it. Um, bringing a lot of, um, bringing a lot of economic opportunity to New Mexico, right? A place that, uh, if you’ve driven across New Mexico lately, it needs it in a dire way. Uh, and this is how wind energy can bring a lot of, uh, economic boom to places that, uh, hadn’t had it in the past.
Allen Hall: And this being the largest project to date, there’s a, I think a couple more than a pipeline that could be larger if they get moving on them. We see another project like this five years [00:12:00] from now, or we think we’re gonna scale down and stay in the gigawatt range just because of the scale and the things that Sunzi went through.
Joel Saxum: We have the choke chair, Sierra Madre project up in Wyoming that’s been chugging the Anschutz Corporation’s been pushing that thing for a long time. That’s, that’s along the same size of this unit. Um, and it’s the same thing. It’s, it’s kind of hinged on, I mean, there’s permitting issues, but it’s hinged on a transmission line being built.
I think that one’s like 700. 50 miles of transmission. That’s supposed to be, it’s like Wyoming all the way down to Las Vegas. That project is sitting out there. Um, it’s hard to build something of that size in, like say the wind corridor, the Texas, Oklahoma, uh, you know, all the way up to the Dakotas, just simply because of the massive amount of landowners and public agencies involved in those things.
It’s a bit easier when you get out West New Mexico. Um, I could see something like this happening possibly in Nevada. At some point in time to feed that California [00:13:00] side of things, right? But they’re doing massive solar farms out there. Same kind of concept. Um, I, I think that, um, I would love to see something like this happen, but to invest that kind of capital, you’ve got to have some kind of ITC credits going for you.
Um, otherwise, I mean, $11 billion is, that’s a lot of money
Allen Hall: since Zia will have PTC. Which is a huge driver about the economics for the entire project.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. But you’re also seeing at the same time, just because of the volatility of what’s happening in the states wind wise, uh, there was a big article out today of someone who got wind that EDF may be selling its entire
Allen Hall: US onshore renewable operation or US renewable operation.
That was Wood Mac that. Put that out. And I’m still not sure that’s a hundred percent reliable, but they have been 50% for sale for a while. Everybody, I think everybody knew that.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. I don’t know if it’s a hundred percent reliable as well. I would agree with you there. However, there’s, it’s the [00:14:00] same thought process of European company pulling outta the United States.
That’s where a lot of the renewable energy capital is, or it has been fed to a lot of that capital comes from Canada and other places too. Right. But that’s where it’s been fed through. Um, but you’re starting to see some, some. Uh, purchasing some acquisitions, a little bit of selling and buying here and there.
I don’t, I don’t think that there’s, uh, massive ones on the horizon. That’s just my opinion though.
Allen Hall: Well, won’t the massive ones be offshore if we ever get back to it?
Joel Saxum: Yeah, you would think so, right? But I, that’s gonna take a, uh, an administration change. I mean the, the, all that stuff you’d see out in California, like when we were originally seeing the leases come out and we were like, oh, great.
More offshore opportunity. Ah, but it’s California, so it’ll be kind of tough. It probably won’t be till 20 32, 20, something like that. I don’t think we’ll see possibly California offshore wind until 2040 if we’re lucky.
Allen Hall: Joel, what were the two wind turbines selected for Sunz? They were both new models, right?
One from Renova and then the other one from [00:15:00] Vestas,
Joel Saxum: so the Vestas was 242 V, 1 63, 4 0.5 megawatts machines, and the, and the GE Renova. Just so we get, make sure I get clarity on this. 674 of its three. They were 3.6, but they’re 3.61 50 fours.
Allen Hall: Okay. So both turbine types are relatively new. New to the manufacturer.
CZ has two new turbines styles on the site.
Joel Saxum: Yeah, we were told that when they were originally like getting delivered, that they didn’t have type certificates yet. That’s how new they were.
Allen Hall: So Yolanda. As Sania starts to turn on, what are things that they need to be aware of blade wise,
Yolanda Padron: besides the lightning and the dust in New Mexico?
It’s probably gonna tip them. I don’t know exactly what they’re counting with as far as leading edge protection goes.
Allen Hall: Pattern usually doesn’t, uh, have a full service agreement. Joel, do you remember if that was an FSA? I don’t think so.
Joel Saxum: I would say [00:16:00] because those are Vestas turbines on the one that, yes, Vestas really doesn’t sell a turbine without it.
Knowing internally how big patterns engineering group are, I don’t know if they can completely take on the operations of a thousand more turbine, 900 more turbines overnight. Right? So I think that there is gonna be some OE EMM involvement in these things, uh, simply to be at that scale as well. I don’t know of anywhere else with a 1 54 install a GE 1 54.
So the things that I wouldn’t looking out is the. It’s the brand new type stuff, right? Like do internal inspections when they’re on the ground. You don’t know what kind of condition these things are in, what, you know, what is the, you haven’t, nobody’s seen them. Like you’re the first ones to get to get your hands on these things.
Yolanda Padron: Yeah, I think they’re definitely gonna have to go with some sort of consulting or something externally as far as what exactly they’re dealing with. I know, Rosemary, you’ve touched on it a lot, right about. [00:17:00] How the changing the blade types and changing the turbines every x amount of years is really not conducive to, to being able to repeat the same results.
And if you’re having that for hundreds of turbines at a new site that you’ve already had so much time and money invested in creating, it’ll, it’s, it’s a big undertaking.
Rosemary Barnes: It’s really interesting because. When you have such a large wind farm be, I’m assuming one of the first wind farms may be the first to get this new turbine types, then if there’s a serial defect, it’s gonna be very obvious.
’cause with smaller wind farms, one of the problems is that, uh, the numbers are too small to definitively say whether something is, um, serial or just random bad luck. Um, but when you get. So how many wind turbines is it?
Joel Saxum: Almost a thousand total. It’s [00:18:00] 674 GE turbines and 242 Vesta turbines.
Rosemary Barnes: You can do statistics on that kind of a population and this area.
I mean, there’s lightning there, right? Like this is not an area where you’re not gonna see lightning. You know, in know the first couple of years, like there, there will be. Hundreds of turbines damaged by lightning in the, the first couple of years I would suggest, um, or, you know, maybe not. Maybe the LPS are so, so great that that doesn’t happen.
But, you know, the typical standard of LPS would mean that, you know, even if you only see, say we see 10 strikes per turbine to year and you get a 2% damage rate, that is, you know, lots of, lots of individual instances of blade damage, even if everything works as it should according to certification. And if it doesn’t, if you see a 10% damage rate or something from those strikes, then you are going to know that, you know, the, um, LPS is not performing the way that the standard says that it should.
It’s not like that’s a slam dunk for, um, [00:19:00] proving that the design was not sufficient or the certification wasn’t correct. It’s always really, really tricky. My recommendation would be to make sure that you are monitoring the lightning strikes, so you know exactly which turbine is struck and when, and then go inspect them and see the damage.
Ideally, you’re also gonna be measuring some of the characteristics of the lightning as well. But you do that from day one. Then if there is a problem, then you’re at least gonna have enough information within the, um, you know, the serial defect liability period to be able to do something about it.
Joel Saxum: Let me ask you a question on that, on just the, that lightning monitoring piece then.
So this is something that’s just, it’s of course we do this all the time, but this is boiling up in the thing. How do you, how do you monitor for lightning on 916 turbines? Probably spread, spread across. 200 square miles.
Rosemary Barnes: Well, there’s, there’s heaps of different ways that you can do it. Um, so I mean, you can do remote, remote lightning detection, which is [00:20:00] not good enough.
Then there are a range of different technologies that you can install in the, um, turbines. Um, the most simple and longest standing solution was a lightning cart, which is installed on the down conductor at the blade route. That will just tell you the amplitude of the biggest strike that that turbine has ever seen when it’s red.
I have literally never seen a case where the lightning card definitively or even provided useful evidence one way or another when there’s a, a dispute about lightning. So then you move on to solutions that, uh, um. Measuring they use, uh, Alan, you’re the electrical engineer, but they, they use the, the principle that when there’s a large current flowing, then it also induces a magnetic field.
And then you can use that to make a, a, a change and read characteristics about it. So you can tell, um, well first of all, that that turbine was definitely struck. So there are simple systems that can do that quite cheaply. The OGs ping [00:21:00] sensor, does that really cost effectively? Um, and then OG Ping. Phoenix Contact and Polytech all have a different product.
Um, all have their own products that can tell you the charge, the duration, the um, polarity or the, yeah, the, the, if it’s a positive or a negative strike, um, yeah, rise time, things like that. Um, about the strike, that’s probably, probably, you don’t. Need to go to that extent. Um, I would say just knowing definitively which turbine was struck and when is gonna give you what you need to be able to establish what kind of a problem or if you have a problem and what kind of a problem it is.
Joel Saxum: I think that like an important one there too is like, uh, so I know that Vest is in a lot of their FSA contracts will say if it’s struck by lightning, we have 48 or 72 hours to inspect it. Right. And when you’re talking something of this scale, 916 turbines out there, like if there’s a lightning storm, like [00:22:00]we’ve been watching, we watch a lot of lightning storms come through, uh, certain wind farms that we’re working with.
And you see 20, 30, 40 turbines get struck. Now if a storm comes through the middle of this wind farm, you’re gonna have 200 turbines get struck. How in the hell do you go out without ha Like you need to have something that can narrow you down to exactly the turbines that we’re struck. That being said that next morning or over the next two days, you need to deploy like 10 people in trucks to drive around and go look at these things.
That’s gonna be a massive problem. Pattern has about 3000 turbines, I think in their portfolio, and they, so they’re, they’re familiar with lightning issues and how things happen, but something at this scale when it’s just like so peaky, right? ’cause a storm isn’t through every night, so you don’t have that need to go and inspect things.
But when you do. That is gonna be a massive undertaking. ’cause you gotta get people out there to literally like, at a minimum, binocular these things to make sure there isn’t any damage on ’em. And it’s gonna be, there’s gonna be storms where hundreds of turbines get hit.
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, well [00:23:00] those three companies, those three products that I mentioned are aiming to get around that.
I mean, it will depend how contracts are worded. I know in Australia it is not the norm to check for lightning ever. So if the contract says someone has to, you know, use human eyeballs to verify lightning damage or not, then. That’s, you know, that’s what has to happen. But all of these technologies do aim to offer a way that you wouldn’t have to inspect every single one.
So Polytech is using, um, different lightning characteristics and then they’ve got an algorithm which they say will learn, um, which types of strike cause damage that could. Potentially progress to catastrophic damage. Um, and then the other one that is interesting is the eLog Ping solution because they’ve also got the, um, damage monitoring.
That’s their original aim of their product, was that if there’s a damage on the blade tip, say it’s been punctured by lightning, it, it actually makes a noise. Like it makes a whistle and they listen out for that. So if you combine the [00:24:00]lightning detection and the, um, like blade. Tip structure monitoring from Ping, then you can get a good idea of which ones are damaged.
Like if it’s damaged badly enough to fail, it is almost certainly gonna be making a noise that the ping can, um, detect
Allen Hall: as wind energy professionals. Staying informed is crucial, and let’s face it, d. That’s why the Uptime podcast recommends PES Wind Magazine. PES Wind offers a diverse range of in-depth articles and expert insights that dive into the most pressing issues facing our energy future.
Whether you’re an industry veteran or new to wind, PES Wind has the high quality content you need. Don’t miss out. Visit PE ps win.com today and this quarter’s PES WIN Magazine. There’s a lot of great articles, and as we roll into December. You’ll have time to sit down and read them. You can download a free copy@pswin.com.
And there’s a, a really interesting article about [00:25:00] offshore, and there’s a number of articles about offshore this quarter. Well, two Dutch companies developed a solution to really one of the industry’s most persistent headaches. And when it’s flange alignment. So when you’re trying to connect the transition piece to the mono paddle out in the water, it’s not really easy to do.
Uh. So PES interviewed, uh, Ontech and Dutch heavy lift consultants to explain their flange alignment system known as FAS. And it started when a turbine installation needed a safer, faster way to try to align these two pieces. So if you can think about the amount of steel we’re talking about, these are really massive pieces you’re trying to line and put bolts in, not easy to do out in the ocean.
Uh, so what this new device can do is it can align the flanges in a couple of minutes. It can reshape deformed, flanges and Joel, as you know, everything offshore can get dinged warped. That’s pretty easy to do, so you don’t want that when you have a, a heavily loaded, bolted joint, like those flanges to be [00:26:00] perfectly, uh, smooth to one another and, and tight.
So these two companies, Amek and Dutch heavy Lifting consultants have come up with some pretty cool technology to speed up. Installations of wind turbines.
Joel Saxum: Yeah, I would say anybody who’s interested in wind, offshore wind, any of that sort, and you have a little bit of an engineering mind or an engineering, uh, quirk in your mind.
As, as I think we said earlier in the episode today, engineering nerds. Um, I would encourage you to go and look at some heavy lift operations offshore, whether it is offshore wind, offshore oil and gas, offshore construction of any time or any type even pipe lay operations and stuff. Just to take, just to take in the, the sheer scale.
At how, uh, at how these things are being done and how difficult that would be to manage. Think about the just tons and tons of steel and, uh, trying to put these pieces together and these different things. And then remember that these vessels are thousands of dollars, sometimes a minute for how specialized they are.
Right? So a lot of money gets put into [00:27:00] how the, like when we’re putting monopiles in that these transit transition pieces get put on. A lot of money has been spent on. The ver like technology to get, make sure they’re super, super tight tolerances on the verticality of those when they’re driving the actual piles in.
And then you’re doing that offshore in a nasty environment, sometimes from a jack up vessel, sometimes not from a jack vessel, sometimes from a mor or like a, you know, a pseudo mor vessel on, uh. Dynamic positioning systems, and then you’re swinging these big things with cranes and all this stuff, like, it’s just a crazy amount of engineering eng engineering and operational knowledge that goes into making this stuff happen.
And if you make one little mistake, all of a sudden that piece can be useless. Right? Like I’ve been a part of, of heavy offshore lifting for oil and gas where they’ve. It’s built a piece on shore, got it out to the vessel, went to go put it off sub sea in 2000 meters of water, lowered it all the way down there and it didn’t fit like you just burned [00:28:00] hundreds and hundreds and thousands of millions of dollars in time.
So this kind of technology that Anima Tech is putting out in Dutch Heavy Lift consultants. This is the key to making sure that these offshore operations go well. So kudos to these guys for solve for seeing a problem and solving a problem with a real solution. Uh, instead of just kind of like dreaming things up, making something happen here.
I’d like to see it.
Allen Hall: Check out that article and many more in this quarter’s. PES Wind Magazine downloaded free copy@pswind.com. Well, Yolanda, as we know, everybody’s out with Sky Specs, uh, doing blade inspections, and so many turbines have issues this year. A lot of hail damage, a lot of lightning damage and some serial defects from what I can tell.
Uh, we’re, we’re getting to that crazy season where we’re trying to get ready for next year and prioritize. This is the time to call C-I-C-N-D-T and actually take a deep hard look at some of this damage, particularly at the blade root area. We’ve seen a lot more of that where, [00:29:00] uh, there’s been failures of some blades at the root where the bolt connection is.
So you’re gonna have to get some NDT done. Boy, oh boy, you better get C-I-C-N-D-T booked up or get them on the phone because they’re getting really busy.
Yolanda Padron: Yeah, you definitely need to schedule something. Make sure that you know at least where you stand, right? Be because imagine going into try to fix something and just have a hammer and then close your eyes and then see what you can fix.
That way, like sometimes it feels like when you’re in operations, if you don’t have the proper. The proper inspections done, which sometimes there’s, there’s not enough budget for, or appetite or knowledge, um, in some of these projects to have early on. You come in and just, you, you see the end result of failure modes and you might see something that’s really, really expensive to fix now.
Or you might think of, oh, this problem happened at X, Y, Z. [00:30:00] Site, so it’ll probably happen here. That’s not necessarily the case. So getting someone like NDT to be able to come in and actually tell you this is what’s going on in your site, and these are the potential failure modes that you’re going to see based on what you’re getting and this is what will probably happen, or this is what is happening over time in your site, is a lot more indicative to be able to solve those problems faster and way.
More way, in a way less expensive manner than if you were to go in and just try to fix everything reactively. You know, if you have half a bond line missing. Then later you, your blade breaks. It’s like, well, I mean, you, you could, you could have seen it, you could have prevented it. You could have saved that blade and saved yourself millions and millions of dollars and, and so much more money in downtime.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. The first time I ran into Jeremy Hess and the C-A-C-N-D team was actually on an insurance project where it was Yolanda, like you said, like [00:31:00] they let it go. The, the operator and the OEM let it go way too long, and all of a sudden they had a, like wind farm wide shutdown costing them millions in production.
Uh, to find these, these issues that, uh, could have been found in a different manner when you talk to the team over there. Um, why we like to recommend them from the podcast is Jeremy has an answer for everything. He’s been around the world. He’s worked in multiple industries, aerospace, race, cars, sailboats, you name it.
Um, he’s been a client to almost everybody, you know, in the wind industry, all the OEMs, right? So he knows the, the issues. He has the right tool sets. To dive into them. You, you may not know, not, you don’t need to be an NDT expert to be able to have a conversation because he will coach you through, okay, here you have this problem.
Alright, this is how we would look at it. This is how we would solve it. Here’s how you would monitor for it, and then this is how you would, you know, possibly fix it. Or this is what the, the solution looks like. Um, because I think that’s one of the [00:32:00] hurdles to the industry with NDT projects is people just don’t.
Know what’s available, what’s out there, what they can see, what they, you know, the issues that they might be able to uncover, like you said, Yolanda. So, um, we encourage, um, anybody that says, Hey, do you know anybody in NDT? Yeah, it’s Jeremy Hanks and the C-I-C-N-D-T team. Call ’em up. They’ve got the solutions, they’ll help you out.
Allen Hall: That wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Just reach out to us on LinkedIn and don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you found value in today’s conversation, please leave us a review.
It really helps other wind energy professionals discover the show and we’ll catch you next week on the Uptime Wind Energy [00:33:00] Podcast.
Renewable Energy
Letting the Market Decide
Almost all respondents on social media were enthusiastic about banning the garb at left.
Two points:
1) I’m thrilled to live in a country that protects its people’s freedom of expression. As an older American, I’m not crazy about massive tattoos, face-piercings, and young guys walking around with their pants worn down around their knees, but I’m a real fan of the United States Constitution.
The author of the meme might want to take a peek. It’s a good read.
2) What actually works on a societal basis, and what no one can regulate, is public acceptance or rejection. You’re free to wear extreme forms of the hijab, or claim that the Holocaust was a hoax, or believe that the Earth is flat, or tell your neighbors that the 2020 presidential election was rigged, that you, with no training in science, think climate change is a hoax, or that vaccines are often lethal.
However, you’ll pay a stiff price in terms of acceptance into refined society. Want to get a high-level job or join a country club dressed like that? Do you think that spouting off the gibberish of uneducated MAGA slobs in the workplace will advance your career?
Good luck.
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