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Energex Acquisition, LM Wind Power Builds Enercon Blades
We discuss the recent acquisition of Energex Renewable Energy by CDPQ for $3.6 billion, highlighting its implications on the wind industry. We also delve into LM Wind Power producing blades for ENERCON from its factory in Turkey and feature the Buffalo Mountain Wind Farm, a unique project on a reclaimed coal mine in Tennessee.
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Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!
You are listening to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by build turbines.com. Learn, train, and be a part of the Clean Energy Revolution. Visit build turbines.com today. Now here’s your hosts, Allen Hall, Joel Saxum, Phil Totaro, and Rosemary Barnes.
Allen Hall: Big news, Energex Renewable Energy has announced that it will be acquired by CDPQ.
A major community and pension fund manager for about $13 and 75 cents per share. I’ve seen a couple different numbers about that. This transaction represents a total enterprise value of approximately 3.6 billion US dollars, and marks a really a substantial consolidation in the wind industry. The deal offers about a 40% premium on interjects closing share.
Of a couple months ago. So that’s a pretty good premium that CDPQ put on interjects value. And now Phil, this is part of a larger play of a lot of consolidation. This one in particular, interject is going to become a private company after this acquisition. Why?
Phil Totaro: It, that’s an interesting question because normally when a company gets taken private by a large institutional investor, it’s to restructure.
I am not sure that. Energex needs that much restructuring per se. It’s not like they’ve got a huge team to begin with. But a reasonably competent team in terms of the pedigree of their developments, obviously in Canada and throughout Europe as well. And they’ve been trying to venture off and dip their toe in other markets as well.
The reality of this is that it, it’s a fantastic thing for CDPQ to strengthen their position and it comes at a point in time when a lot of these Canadian pension funds are looking at the profitability and the returns that they’re seeing on their investments globally, including the US right now with all the trade tensions and everything we’ve got.
And I think you’re gonna see more of these Canadian. Pension funds and investors pulling back and doing things that are ignoring the US at this point. Looking at deals in Canada, looking at deals in Europe, looking at deals in Southeast Asia and South America for that matter.
Joel Saxum: I think it makes sense for me like CDPQ keeping their Canadian money mostly in Canada. However, I know Energex has a hand small handful of wind farms in the United States as well. Did you see a reality where just because of geopolitical reasons, they might just. Sell those couple of wind farms off.
Phil Totaro: Let’s put it this way, Brookfield’s not going anywhere and they’re always on the hunt for, good assets.
But there’s other people that could want to gobble up wind assets right now, especially if, the assets that Enerex owns in the US they’re not quite ready for repowering yet. But maybe that’s part of the play.
Joel Saxum: Moving forward. Yeah, I know, like you said, you mentioned Brookfield.
Brookfield, same thing. We’re talking about market consolidation. They just bought National Grid renewables not too long ago, and I know National Grid renewables in the States. A couple, A handful of wind farms and some solar assets, some other things. So yes, continuing to see that trend.
Allen Hall: I still wonder though if taking them private is a better long-term play.
Because of the turbulence that’s gonna happen over the next couple of years. It gets rid of all the shareholder complaints and the back and forth and where to save money and whatnot. If you’re really trying to look for a longer play, doesn’t taking renewable assets, especially large scale renewable assets off the public markets, the better long-term play.
I just think that. There’s so much turbulence in renewable energy, and it’s getting bashed so much that the value was still there, but in the public eye, it’s like it doesn’t have as much value. But when you’re producing power and you’re delivering it and getting paid, you’re still making money.
Phil Totaro: Maybe to answer that question. I think again, the reason that you would take something private is if you wanna avoid the scrutiny in general. And the reason to wanna avoid the scrutiny at this point is partly what you just described, but I think mainly if you’re looking to own and operate for a longer term, this is something, and look, CDPQ is putting money into something that they’re not making a short-term play themselves either. This isn’t just, Hey, let’s buy Inex to flip it in a year and a half or something. They’re, if they’re. Going in like they did with a minority stake that they’ve got in energy or any other investments that they’ve got and partnerships they’ve got around the world on individual projects or with development and owner operator companies then, they’re very deliberate about what they’ve done.
So again, taking it private. To me feels like they want to, just go about their business for the time being.
Allen Hall: Would the Canadian US tariff exchanges influence that decision
Phil Totaro: A little bit. I. Not necessarily a take private deal specifically, but you’ve got a scenario where, again, there, the Canadian pension funds and institutional investors, which is also gonna include, the likes of CDPQ and Brookfield.
They are going to make it a point to de-emphasize investments in the US for the time being, because there’s, it’s, and it’s really not even, ’cause look, we talked about this on the show before. If we end up in a recession and interest rates end up coming down, that’s actually really good for investors because they wanna plow money in when the cost of money’s cheap, if interest rates are low.
But the reality of it is we’re not quite there yet. We’re not, all the way into a recession yet there’s, everybody’s still on the fence. The what they’re, what everyone’s trying to avoid right now is the chaos that’s ensuing from the uncertainty around. The tariffs that are either in place, not in place, now they’re in place again.
We had Ontario trying to impose tariffs on the energy exports. Now they’re not, because there was a conversation with the commerce department. So I, who knows what’s gonna happen. This is the problem. Nobody knows what the hell’s gonna happen tomorrow. So how the hell can you plan financially?
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Visit EOLOGIX-PING.com and take control of your turbine’s health today. LM Windpower has announced an extension of its partnership with Evolv. Company’s Intercon leading wind turbine provider, obviously. Through a new contract that’ll supply LM 78.3 meter blades for intercom’s, E one 60, EP five, E two wind turbines.
This, these blades are gonna be manufactured over in Turkey at the end of this year and it. It seems like LM is moving away from manufacturing GE equipment to picking up some work for other manufacturers. I, we’ve been noticing this trend for several months now. It does seem like this alliance falls into that bucket of maybe LM is moving on a little bit, but Turkey, the thing about this is LM getting work in Turkey because it did seem like a lot of.
Companies were starting to pull out a Turkey. Intercon is starting to fill the void. Isn’t that what it looks like, Phil?
Phil Totaro: Yes. Although this is slightly confusing. ’cause if you remember last year they were talking about laying everybody off in Turkey at LM and shutting the whole factory because I thought Intercon was working with TPI, who also has a facility there on the manufacturing of blades.
So did something happen? And if so, what? I don’t think we know. But also this, this deal, while it’s obviously not necessarily bad news for lm, keep in mind there’s only five or so gigawatts of order book for these intercon turbines. That’s specific model of turbine. So it’s not like this is game changing for lm and it’s not oh, this is gonna save the company, it’ll keep a factory in Turkey operational for.
18 months while they produce these things. And then after that, I don’t know what happens. ’cause intercom’s not been like the strongest in terms of their global sales lately. So we’ll see.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. So Rosemary, you worked at lm as part of some special projects. Of course you had one that was your general remit, but when things came through the door from other manufacturers of turbines, intercon being one of ’em, Intercon builds the turbine itself. They don’t build their own blades. How was that handled within lm? Do you, did you have any experience with that?
Rosemary Barnes: So when I started at lm, there was nothing but other companies blades, right? LM Wind Power didn’t make turbines and so the blades they made were exclusively for other manufacturers to put another manufacturers turbines.
And then a couple of years. Into my time at lm, I think must have been about 2018 or something. They got bought by ge who had been one of their main customers, one of the biggest customers. And wanted to, reduce some of the supply chain uncertainty by bringing that in-house.
And at the time there was lots and lots of reassurances of, we wouldn’t have paid so much for the company if we didn’t want you to still be making blades for other customers, and nothing’s gonna change there. There was a lot of effort put into they call them Chinese walls, right? Where like just because you’re working on one manufacturer’s technology, you just can’t go and work on their competitors and tell them all the, all their secrets and stuff like that.
I’d say that they did that as well as they probably could have not perfect. I’m sure. But yeah, as time’s gone on, I think that a lot of the other manufacturers got a little bit didn’t feel super duper comfortable even, with those things in place. There is of course still the worry that you’re just telling your competitor all of yeah, everything they need to know to just copy what you’re doing.
I think people have got less keen on it. Yeah, in a sense, like when I left LM it was only a couple of years into the merge and it really, things didn’t feel that different in terms of working for other manufacturers, but I’m sure that five years later it does. And so this is maybe more of a.
More of a big deal now, but yeah, to me it’s just the way that every project was. It didn’t make any difference if a blade was to be made for GE versus any of the other manufacturers.
Joel Saxum: I know Allen, with some of our work we’ve done with lightning protection in India, we’ve seen Intercon turbines with.
LM Blades, and I think we’ve seen Envision turbines with LM blades in India as well, haven’t we?
Allen Hall: Yes, we have.
Joel Saxum: Definitely.
Rosemary Barnes: I think LM made blades for maybe literally every single manufacturer. There were a few that they didn’t make many for. I know Vestas was one that they were continuously chasing and had never.
At the time I was working there, they had never really done a lot for vest and were always wanting to, but for the most part, I’m pretty sure that they had at least dabbled with every single OEM and I myself had some meetings at Anacon for yeah, for a deicing a blade that had deicing systems and it was very it was culturally very different to other manufacturers that I had worked with.
I worked a lot with ge and. A bit with Siemens Gomesa and just, I just did some introductory meetings at Anacon and it was exactly like you would expect the German engineering stereotype to, exactly like that would tell you. They really wanted things optimized. I’m much more of a, you make things.
As good as they need to be and not better because when you make them better, you make them more expensive, you make them take longer, you can often add extra points of failure that you know didn’t need to be there if the feature is a bit unnecessary. Yeah. But when you talk to. Maintenance personnel service teams, they love servicing anacon turbines.
I’ve heard it described over and over again as the Mercedes of wind turbines. They say, I’ve never climbed one, but they say that when you get up there, it is like the interior of a, I dunno, luxury yacht or something.
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Joel Saxum: Isn’t it true with Intercon as well that they’d like, they won’t sell a turbine unless they get the maintenance contract
Phil Totaro: in Germany? Yes. I think they’ve had to relent in other countries because again, financiers may not allow that. To, like it’s just, oh, this is way too expensive.
’cause like a lot of OEMs, no matter how much an intercon turbine costs, when they’re also selling the maintenance package, they’re trying to make whatever they feel like they lost on the upfront CapEx and turbine costs up with the long-term service contract. They.
It just depends on which market. Definitely in Germany, they, I don’t think they’ll sell a turbine unless it’s their maintenance because they are so well-oiled. And you could probably argue almost all of Western Europe they’re so well-oiled in terms of, I, I heard a story once when I was at Clipper, this would’ve been around 2009, where there was a.
Intercon turbine in Germany that had a nelle fire and they literally had a brand new Nelle in 24 hours. They had swapped it, they had been able to swap out a newness cell and had the turbine back up and running within 24 hours of that fire, which is just astonishing. You’re paying for it like Rosie’s talking about, you’re paying for it.
Rosemary Barnes: That’s the kind of benefit that you would expect to see when you have OEM service agreement, right? That they have the ability to keep an inventory of spare parts and, nearby and they can just swap stuff out and everything’s very fast, but. We don’t see in Australia where those kind of agreements are very common.
We don’t see, we don’t see that kind of preferential treatment, that’s for sure. And then the second thing is that it may be technically the OEMs aren’t requiring that if you buy their turbines, you have to buy their service agreements. I. It’s almost like a, I don’t know, like a strong man kind of sales tactics.
Like sure you can, self self support this, self service this, but good luck getting any spare parts for it. Good luck getting any help. If you’ve got a, a warranty claim and they like pressure so much that you have no choice, which to me, like I would rather. That they were just honest, that they’re like, we can’t make a profit on the turbine without the service.
So you have to buy the service like that. I would rather know and have it, be honest about it than pretend like you’ve got a choice, but you’re just gonna be, like bullied and yeah, this thuggery to, to force you into using, or they’ll go outta their way to make your life hard.
Phil Totaro: And this, frankly, this is also what’s been talked about lately is that with people not being able to get access to spares for some, older.
Turbines and older models of blade. There are companies out there that are having the conversation. Do we just reverse engineer, one of these, one of these blades? Do we just buy one and scan it and figure out the arrow profiles and then. We already know how to manufacture a blade of that style anyway, so we’re just gonna do our own version.
And there are OEMs that are discussing that literally right now because they wanna be able to sell spare parts. Basically, and that’s probably extends beyond blades, but they wanna be able to sell spare parts to a market that is thirsty for spare parts. And it’s certainly happening, it’s conversations that are happening in the us but I could imagine it’s something that they would talk about in Australia too, because access to spares down there is also, quite finite and or time consuming to get your hands on.
Rosemary Barnes: One of the things, even, yeah back in my early LM days, that was one of the things that I learned early on. ’cause I was shocked at the secrecy and everyone rolled their eyes and said, it’s so dumb anyway, because the big customers, like if they buy hundreds of turbines worth of blades, then they buy an extra, one extra blade and slice it up into, I don’t know a hundred millimeter slices and then they can easily reverse engineer.
Maybe they don’t know. Exact materials, although I’m sure that it wouldn’t be too hard to do that either. Like you’re not gonna get a hundred percent of the way there. But I do think you could get like 95% of the way there and, do your own engineering on top to, do the analysis to, to make sure it’s okay.
So that, that’s why I think that the excessive secret is. Secrecy is silly because you send the you sell the product, you’re not in control of it anymore. Once it’s, left you, then why is it impossible to get from the OEM? Just like a simple line drawing that tells you where within the blade the lightning cable goes for instance, there’s just no reason for them to be um, like just to have their white knuckled grip on the, those drawings that they can’t even share.
Basic information like that, that you need to use their product properly when all you need to do is just yeah, you don’t even need to buy a spam, just wait till you’ve you’ve got a failure and okay, we’re not scrapping this blade, we’re slicing it. And then you’ll get all the information you need.
And, but with a harm drip relationship between customer and supplier, it doesn’t I don’t feel the need to make such an adversarial relationship over that.
Joel Saxum: The Wind Farm of the week this week is inspired by our A-C-P-O-M-S trip last week to Nashville. And it is one of the only wind farms within the state of Tennessee.
It’s called the Buffalo Mountain Wind Farm. It’s an old one. It’s been around for a long time. Started in October of 2000, so it’s in Anderson County, Tennessee, and it was the home of the first commercial wind generation facility in the southeastern United States. It’s owned by the Tennessee Valley Authority TVA, which is also the nation’s largest public power company, which I did not know.
They started by building three turbines up on top of a, former strip coal mine. So these were 660 kilowatt turbines. And they powered about a four, 400 homes. But then they expanded the wind farm in 2004 after it was successful to have 15 turbines. As of April, 2003, they’ve had 15 turbines and they’re producing about 9,500 megawatt hours of electricity per year.
The cool thing about this, like I was saying though, is this, is, this wind farm is located at the top. Of an abandoned or backfilled reclaimed coal mine. So the Coal Creek Mining Company was a part of this thing and it was a part of TVA’s Green Switch program. So this is using a, an formerly operated strip mine in Tennessee to produce renewable green energy with a 29 megawatt wind farm.
And energy works with TVA to run it. So the Buffalo Mountain Wind Farm. In Tennessee, you are the Wind Farm of the week.
Allen Hall: That’s gonna do it for this week’s Uptime Wind Energy podcast. Thanks for listening. Please give us a five star rating on your podcast platform and subscribe in the show notes below to Uptime, tech News or weekly substack newsletter and subscribe to engineering with Rosie because she’s going to hit 100,000 subscribers sometime over the next week or two.
We’ll see you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast.
https://weatherguardwind.com/energex-lm-windpower-enercon/
Renewable Energy
Pardalote Studies Australian Blade Erosion and Heat Fatigue
Pardalote Studies Australian Blade Erosion and Heat Fatigue
Rosemary Barnes, CEO and founder of Pardalote Consulting, joins to discuss their new grant-funded study of blade erosion and heat fatigue in Australia.
Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!
Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining light on wind energy’s brightest innovators. This is the progress powering tomorrow
Allen Hall 2025: Well, Rosemary, welcome back to the show.
Rosemary Barnes: Thanks, Allen. Great to be here. For, it’s been a while since we did one of these one-on-one episodes, like a, yeah, a proper, proper guest.
Allen Hall 2025: Well, this is kind of a celebratory episode because your company, Pardalote Consulting, has been awarded, uh, some funding from the Australian Capital Territory’s government for the Energy Innovation Fund.
Rosemary Barnes: It’s a really good program that the ACT government has to try and get energy innovation In the state. It’s not a state actually, it’s technically a territory. Little more than just Canberra, the city. Uh, but there are actually quite a few, like, really interesting energy-related companies here, partly ’cause of the, the fund I think helps, but also just tracing back like, [00:01:00] uh, y- you know, in the 20-teens, Australia had a really conservative government that hated renewable energy, and the ACT government had a commitment at that time to 100%, um, 100% renewable electricity for the, the government.
And that was one of the only programs that was resulting in a lot of, um, you know, clean energy projects being built, and one of the conditions that they put on that, uh, for people that would win PPAs with the ACT was that you had to have your headquarters in Canberra. So we’ve actually got quite a few, quite a few really cool, innovative companies out of here.
Um, like Neoen’s headquarters here. Windlab, uh, yeah, was, was founded here and still has a lot of people here. Pardalote obviously, and you know, a few other companies as well. So despite it being a small city of like, I don’t know, maybe it’s up to 400,000 or something people by now, um, yeah, there is actually quite a lot going on here for energy.
Allen Hall 2025: And the Energy Innovation Fund is funded by the wind and solar operators in the area, and your particular [00:02:00] effort has really global consequences. You’re focusing on two areas involving how wind turbines survive Australia, but more, uh, of relevance is to just really tough conditions which exist not just in Australia but around the world.
What two areas are you going to focus on?
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. So the two focus areas are leading edge erosion and high temperature fatigue, which we can probably get into the definitions of those in a minute. But basically my, um– what led me to wanna have a project like this was that when I moved back to Australia in 2021, I– and I started working in O&M, uh, I noticed that the wind turbines that I would look at, the blades that I would look at here behaved really differently to the ones that I worked with overseas.
You know, es- especially with leading edge erosion, like often I would be doing a condition assessment of a, you know, a new wind farm. Um, might only have been operating for, you know, two years. That’s a pretty common time for people to get in and do a condition assessment [00:03:00] because their warranty period is about to end and they wanna, you know, make sure that everything is okay.
Um, and I would just notice that often, like 90, 100% of blades would already have bad erosion after just a couple of years, which is super-duper fast. And then there are some tools available to check, um, like what kind of erosion are you likely to experience on your site. Like is it a higher severity erosion site or a, a low severity one?
Um, and you basically, you know, the status quo globally is to just look at the annual rainfall, um, and the tip speed. And if you’ve got, you know, high for both of those, that’s a bad erosion site. And if you’ve got low for both of those, it’s a, a low erosion site. But when I plotted out the wind farms that I knew had really bad erosion problems onto, you know, a chart with those two axes, I just saw a random distribution of dots.
You know? Like, this was not– uh, this had no predictive value for Australian wind farms. And so that led me to believe that, okay, um, you know, things are a bit [00:04:00] different here. Makes sense, you know, most of the knowledge that we have about how wind turbines operate, it’s been developed and validated mostly in Northern Europe.
You know? Like it’s, it’s Denmark and the surrounding countries that had, like, the bulk of the early wind energy. First few decades of knowledge were, you know, were mostly there. Of course, there were some other, um, places that had wind turbines, but, you know, most of the The OEMs have been operating for decades, came from Denmark.
And I know when I lived in Denmark, the rain there is very different to the rain in Australia. So in Denmark, it’s basically always raining, right? Like, it’s just… Like, even if it’s not raining, you’re still gonna get wet when you go outside ’cause it’s just, like, the air has this just amazing ability to just hold onto moisture.
Um, but it’s very, very gentle. But, you know, over an entire year of most days having gentle rain, that adds up to a lot. Whereas in Australia, and especially if you go, like, north to Queensland, it rarely rains. It’s mostly just dry, and when it [00:05:00] does rain, it’s like a tap turns on, and I, I swear you will get bruised from the rain droplets hitting your skin.
You know, they just have so much energy in them. So I think that that i- you know, when you look at just the overall rainfall, you really hide something important about how erosion, um, can progress. Then, um, there’s other places in Australia that have very different characteristics. Again, they don’t have that kind of really intense rain but, you know, some of those sites are also having really bad erosion.
And so it just occurred to me, I did a lot of research, you know, into what’s going on and, you know, the academics are studying erosion a whole lot, and they’ve got, you know, a lot of standardized tests and, you know, products are developed according to these standardized tests. But the standardized tests don’t actually resemble reality, and especially they don’t resemble reality in Australia.
And so my client started asking me, “Okay, you know, the products that we have are, are terrible. We have to replace them every couple of years. It’s, um, causing big problems with also [00:06:00] the amount of energy that you’re losing.” One of the types of, um, leading-edge erosion or leading-edge problems that we have in Australia is that the, the coatings tend to peel off and make these, like, big flakes which will just massively disrupt the airflow, can cause y- you know, at least a few percent AEP loss, and maybe up to five.
And even worse than the AEP loss is the revenue loss because it affects it most at, you know, lower wind speeds. Um, you get a bigger hit than at rated wind speeds. So there’s a variety of problems going on with leading edges in Australia, which mean that I, I basically… My clients would ask, “What product should we put on to prevent having to, you know, constantly replace this?”
‘Cause it costs, like- you know, 30, $40,000 per turbine to replace the protection, not to mention, you know, one or two days of downtime. It’s expensive, and I basically, I didn’t have a good answer for them. What, what product should they put on? I don’t know. No, we, we don’t know. One, we don’t know what the [00:07:00] specific, um, characteristics are that are…
what the specific local environment, local conditions are that are accelerating leading-edge erosion, one. And two, all of the products tend to be tested around this, you know, there’s this protocol that academics have come up with, and they’ve kind of like assumed that this is representative of how things behave in the field, and it’s– I don’t think it’s particularly true anyway, but it’s especially not true in Australia.
There are a few companies that are testing to different standards. Um, definitely applaud them. But without knowing wha- what are the conditions truly like in Australia, uh, it’s really hard to advise, like, what kind of tests should you be demanding from a product you’re considering to be sure that you’re gonna put it on and not gonna be replacing it again in two years.
Allen Hall 2025: Because that’s really the trouble in Australia is when you get offered products They have been tested generally in somewhere in Europe and maybe in the United States, and then when they go to [00:08:00] Australia, it’s really unknown as to how those products will do, which is a huge risk for the Australian wind market as to what to choose, how to choose, is it– what’s real in terms of test data.
So now you’re gonna go out and do what? Are you gonna put sensors out by the wind farms? Are you gonna try to do more of a statistical summary of the actual environment around wind farms using existing data? What’s the approach here?
Rosemary Barnes: It’s all of the above, but the part that is supported by the grant is that we’re gonna have enough money to be able to buy some scientific-grade sensors and put them on, um, a sample of Australian wind farms.
So we’re gonna be looking at a lot more characteristics about the rain than simply is it raining now, you know, how many millimeters per hour. We’re also gonna be investigating, you know, every kind of characteristic of, of that, um, of that rain, um, including, yeah, like the, the energy that’s in it, for example.
A, a bunch of stuff. I won’t get into every single [00:09:00] parameter. Um, and you know, other things as well, like measuring UV, solar radiation, um, particles, because, you know, in Australia we have a lot of dirt roads, which I know is very common in wind farms around the world, but Australian dirt roa- roads are always dry and dusty, like 99% of the time, so that’s one of the things that y- you know, maybe that’s causing a difference.
Um, so basically putting sensors all over a bunch of wind turbines and then monitoring the erosion, um, a combination of some real-time monitoring and also looking at inspection, um, drone inspection images annually. We also have a- an option where we’ll just be using SCADA data and inspection images, so that’s like a lower cost version where we can combine that with the findings from the scientific-grade instrumented turbines to build up a picture of what types of conditions lead to accelerated erosion.[00:10:00]
Allen Hall 2025: So the SCADA data will, will have some information inside of it, you think, that, uh, will correlate to the weather outside?
Rosemary Barnes: It has some Additionally, we can look up, um, you know, just the weather data, like how many millimeters fell during which 15-minute interval throughout the day, what was the temperature.
SCADA will tell us also what the temperature was, um, what the speed of the turbine was, so you can calculate the tip speed, ’cause that’s an important thing. Um, yeah, so it’s, it’s two, it’s two tiers of data collection. The scientific grade sensors, as you can imagine, are, are really expensive and y- you know, the, the grant project has contributed a, a lot of funding, um, but it’s not enough to put those, yeah, put a little mini lab on top of every turbine across Australia, obviously.
So that we’re using s- doing selectively, and then we can increase the number of wind farms that are included in the study by just doing this, um, cheaper version of the SCADA [00:11:00] plus, uh, weather data that’s available.
Allen Hall 2025: So what are some of the risks on the temperature side for all the high-temperature regions of Australia that have wind turbines?
Clearly it’s generally warmer in Australia than it is in, in Scandinavia and Northern Europe. What kind of temperatures are we talking about on the ground?
Rosemary Barnes: Uh, well, temperatures here can get pretty close to 50 degrees. Um, and if you’ve ever been inside a wind turbine blade on a, even a mildly hot day, you’ll know that the temperature inside a wind turbine, and especially inside the blade, is much hotter than what it is, uh, what the ambient temperature is.
So this project is one– I’ve actually been talking about this project for, yeah, like over 10 years now. Ever since I started, I moved to Denmark, started working for a wind turbine manufacturer, I had done– I had just finished doing my PhD on composite materials, structural design, and analysis. So, um, yeah, very, very familiar with, [00:12:00] you know, how composite materials work and, in particular, the effect that temperature has on them.
I mean, like most materials, when composites get warmer, they get softer, and that is really important for a w- a wind turbine blade. You know, if it gets, um, less stiff, then you’re gonna get a lot more strain, and that is going to affect your fatigue behavior. Y- you know, fatigue is just the application of a little bit of, a small amount of strain.
It’s not gonna cause damage, but when you apply it millions, tens of millions of times, like you do in a, o- over a wind turbine’s operate, um, operating lifetime, then that builds up. And, you know, wind turbine blades are a very fatigue-driven design. Um, it’s one of the most important things to consider when you’re designing a wind turbine blade.
And so when I got to Denmark and I learned how materials are qualified and how the qualification is treated in the certification process, I just realized it’s not particularly conservative, and also that some of the assumptions that are made that [00:13:00] wo- again, they worked really well in more moderate climates where wind turbines have had most of their developmental history.
You know, it’s not such a big deal there if you test at room temperature. Your wind turbine blade is spending most of its operating lifetime at room temperature or below. It’s, it’s rarely, you know, above 30 degrees in Denmark and most of Northern Europe and, you know, also a lot of, um, a lot of America, not, not all of it But, um, in Australia it has just extended periods above that temperature and even exceeding the temperature where, you know, wind turbines have an operating limit and after that they will shut down.
But the operating limits are based on ambient temperature. It’s not based on what’s the temperature in the laminate, which is what really matters for blade lifetime. So anyway, I’ve been obsessed, like honestly obsessed about this issue for 10 years. Talked about it with anybody who would listen . But then when I started working in O&M in [00:14:00] Australia and I started seeing some wind farms with an abnormal number of cracks early…
again, early in their lifetime, you know, I think one of the wind farms I was looking at was maybe three years old or four at the time. I think it was three actually, and had a lot of cracks, and I looked at a few years in a row and it was more and more cracks every year and I’m like, “Oof, this really looks like end of life fatigue behavior.”
A- actually it’s not, y- you know, there’s this concept of a bathtub curve where, um, when you’re looking at failures in components, in, in anything, not just in, um, wind turbine blades, but you know, like you’d start– it’s called a bathtub because, you know, when it starts operating, you’ll get quite a lot of failures.
Anything big, any manufacturing defects or anything are gonna cause failures quite fast, and that kind of drops off over time as all of those, uh, get addressed. And then you have, you know, the bulk of your operating life, it’s like pretty low level, pretty, pretty constant for a long time and then as you get towards the end of the [00:15:00] life, you start to see failure rates rise up again.
That’s your fatigue failures, your end of life fatigue failures. And so when I saw the same types of cracks more and more each year, I’m like, “This looks like, you know, the foot end of the bathtub, not the head end.” And, uh, it made me worried and I’ve now seen that across a few wind farms in Australia at, um, hotter places.
There’s a few blade types that are more prone to it than others, but at this point it’s still a suspicion that that’s what’s going on. I mean, a suspicion backed by a lot of, a lot of theory and knowledge of how the certification process works. But this project now we’ve got some funding to actually go put some sensors onto wind turbines, actually learn what the temperatures are in the blades throughout the whole laminate, um, not just the, you know, on the outside surface or not just the ambient temperature, but actually, you know, develop a temperature gradient across the whole, um, the whole laminate in the blade shell.
Um, and [00:16:00] then we’re going to be doing a bunch of modeling basically to look at what is the effect of these different temperatures that blades are really seeing and how much would we expect to… that to decrease a lifetime. And then we should also be able to say, you know, if you have this issue in your wind farm, you might be able to change your operation a little bit and extend your lifetime a lot.
Because this one, it’s real– like, in contrast to leading edge erosion, leading edge erosion is just, it’s, you know, every wind turbine has it to a certain extent, and it, it’s always there, but it’s a relatively minor cost to fix it. You know, like it sounds like a lot, like 30, $40,000 per wind turbine, but, um, you know, compared to if you’ve got to replace every blade across your fleet because they’re all, you know, at the end of their life after five years, you know, that’s obviously shocking.
And, you know, that’s a bad example, but even in a y- you know, like a less extreme example, maybe [00:17:00] after 15 years you have to do a, you know, a f- a fleet-wide campaign to strengthen blades or something. It’s, you know, m- many millions of dollars for that, and so it c- could make sense to be able to learn, okay, what, what hours of operation should we be avoiding?
Additionally, because when it’s super-duper hot in Australia, usually you’ve got heaps of solar power and the electricity price is not that high. So I, I think that there– and I don’t, obviously, before we’ve done the project, I don’t know what the threshold is. But in both cases, we will be aiming to improve the knowledge of how you can operate to avoid these periods of accelerated damage.
Allen Hall 2025: Do you think you’re seeing more fatigue-like damage due to the blades operating when it’s hot or not operating when it’s hot, with maybe less airflow around the blade and maybe less cooling going on is just a temperature soak At rest? [00:18:00]
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. It’s interesting because the temperature is higher if it’s not rotating, um, because you get a whole lot of, um, convective heat, heat transfer when the turbine is operating.
So your temperatures are not gonna get as hot when operating as when they’re standing still. However, if it’s standing still, they’re only very lightly loaded. Like, yes, they’re gonna get, um, blown by, by gusts and, um, have a little bit of bending, but it’s, it’s very, very small compared to, uh, if it is y- you know, operational loads.
Uh, assuming that you’re not in the middle of a s- a storm. But yeah, a storm probably doesn’t come with 50 degrees temperatures.
Allen Hall 2025: And what part of the blade is susceptible to these higher temperatures? Is it the resin? Is it the fiberglass or carbon fiber? Or is it the, the glue, the bond joints? What part are you focused on?
Rosemary Barnes: The resin is the main part that I’m focused on. It gl- it could be an issue for glue too, actually. I haven’t even looked into what the, um, yeah, temperature assumptions are with, with glue, with [00:19:00] bond lines. But the failures that I’m seeing in the field are not, are not bond line issues. It’s, it’s, um, a laminate problem.
Allen Hall 2025: What about balsa and foam inside of the blade? Are they affected by the temperatures or are they pretty temperature stable?
Rosemary Barnes: I don’t think they’re affected at these kinds of temperatures, no. They, they don’t really do much actually. The, the core materials, like it, it is very important that they’re, that they’re there, but their job is really to keep the fiberglass separated from its- itself to make it stiffer.
So, um, yeah, that’s, that’s unlikely to be a, a major source of problems.
Allen Hall 2025: So this study is gonna work over about three years, and you have a number of wind farms that are participating. Are you looking for more wind farms to participate in Australia?
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, we can, um, have as many as, as people want to join.
We’ve got quite a good selection so far. Definitely can always welcome more. A, a bit limited in how many can get the really, um, good sensor [00:20:00]package, because the grant funding is a, you know, a certain amount, and that’s paying the bulk of those sensors. So, um, those spots are limited. So if anybody wants to really zone in on what is specifically causing erosion on their site, you know, if you know that you have got leading edge protection that is not good enough and you have to replace it soon, but you don’t know what to replace it with, then, you know, that would be the kind of wind farm that might want to consider, yeah, joining this and, um, you know, getting these sensors on their, um…
We’re putting them on top of the nacelles, most of them. Um, yeah, so that would be a good match then. Um, and then, yeah, for the ones that are doing the SCADA data and, um, weather data- There’s not such a, a hard limit on how many we can have join like that. So yeah, we can have more, more like that.
Allen Hall 2025: In the temperature fatigue effort, i- is that still looking for participants or are there particular wind turbine types or manufacturers that you’re [00:21:00] looking for to participate?
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, I think, um, I, I mean yes, we can have more of those. That’s a simpler, a, a simpler issue as well. The sensors are not so expensive and, um, it’s, yeah, it’s a, it’s a simpler project to join that one. We only need, you know, a couple of turbines per site, so it won’t be such a, uh, an involved process to get everything up on into the turbines.
And in terms of who might like to join that, I would say anybody that is in a really hot area where, you know, where they see a lot of days over 30 degrees, and if they see any days, you know, getting into the high 40s, then I would say that that’s worthwhile. Or even I have seen this issue in some milder sites, um, yeah, depending on the, on the blade type as well.
It is more common with polyester resins. They have a, a lower op- uh, maximum operating temperature than epoxy resins. But then also just anybody that has noticed just, hey, [00:22:00] we’ve got a lot of cracks, and it seems like we’re getting more and more cracks every year, which to be honest, can be hard to keep track of if you’re…
If you’ve got a full service agreement, uh, you know, an OEM managing your wind farm The early signs of this are gonna be category one and category two cracks. They’re not in exactly the same location. It’s, you know, it’s a tricky one. Normally, if you’re looking at a serial issue, then you’re going to have, uh, well, you know, your ideal pattern for a serial issue is the exact same thing happening over and over again.
And so it is harder to pull this out. It also really would be very rare for it to be happening in the first two years or three years, whatever your serial defect liability period is. So it’s quite hard. But, um, another group of wind farms that might like to consider it is if you know that in, you know, a certain number of years you have to renegotiate your service agreement or, you know, it ends and you might have to take over yourself, then this’ll be a really good way for you to [00:23:00] understand, you know, have I got a ticking time bomb here?
Um, because it’s not something that you’re gonna be aware of if you haven’t been, you know, doing some really, really in-depth shadow, shadow monitoring of your blades, you know, running your own inspections and looking at every single damage, not just category three, four, five, but lower ones. So yeah, I mean, there’s a, a wide variety of people that, that could be interested in joining.
Allen Hall 2025: Are you expecting a number of manufacturers that make leading-edge protection or involved in resin creation, some– there’s a number of resin companies and a variety of resins that are used globally, sort of interchangeably at times. Are you expecting some of those companies to participate in this effort just to learn about the Australian environment?
Rosemary Barnes: I think it would be a good opportunity to test out some products and see how they behave in the Australian context. I think that that would be a really good selling point, but I, I have to say that most of the companies doing that sort of thing that wanna enter Australia, they don’t [00:24:00] really consider…
Like, from the perspective of wind farm owners in Australia, if you can’t show us wind farms in Australia where this has worked and, you know, show us a before or after, you know, the old LEP lasted Two years and our LEP is going on four years now with no damage. It, you know, unless you’ve got a before and after like that, you can tell us however many turbines that you’ve got installed around the world, but, um, we don’t consider it validated, y- you know?
It’s not validated for Australian conditions yet. And I do have this same discussion over and over again with, you know, not just leading edge protection, but all kinds of, um, you know, manufacturers of whatever doodads that you put on to improve a, a wind turbine. It’s so different to Australia. Things break so fast.
And I’m talking everything, you know, like vortex generators fall off and, um, yeah, like, uh, you know, bits of lightning protection systems fall off, seals just [00:25:00] crumble and disintegrate. Um, and it, you know, we’re very wary of, of new products. So I, I do– I mean, I’m thinking of it more from my client’s point of view than from the product manufacturer’s point of view.
But one thing that I wanna get out of this pro- project is to be able to answer one of the most common questions that I get is, which is, what leading edge protection should I be putting on my turbine? And for now, I don’t know. I, I know a range of products that don’t work in Australia, and not much more than that.
So, um, yeah. And it’s also, you know, Australia’s a very varied place with lots of different kinds of climate too. So it’s not gonna be like, you know, the product that works in Queensland is the same one that’s gonna work in Tasmania, which is the same one that’s gonna work in Western Australia. You know, um, so it, this project is gonna really pull out what are the site specific issues you’ve got at your site and what kinds of, um, you know, tests would we need to see a product um, perform in order to know that this [00:26:00] is gonna last on your site.
Allen Hall 2025: W- what is the outcome of this project or these two projects? Are they gonna be reports or, uh, a, a continual monitoring system that’s designed for the Australian environment? How do you see this going?
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, so one part of it is, um, developing a way to identify periods of accelerated damage and to know not to operate during that time.
So we call it protective operation. Uh, so that would, uh, help you if, yeah, you’re trying to extend the life of something or increase the amount of time before you have to repair, then y- you know, that would be useful to have that knowledge. And it will be as simple as just an alert saying, “Hey, accelerated damage conditions.
Consider, you know, if you wanna keep on operating.” And, you know, if the price of electricity is super high at that time, they may want to push through, and if it’s low, they probably won’t want to. So that’s one thing. Um, especially, you know, as wind turbines get to their, near the end of their life. I’ve got some clients whose wind farms only have, you know, [00:27:00] maybe five years operation left.
They just simply don’t wanna repair their leading edge protection again. They just, they, they don’t wanna do that. So they would be happy to, you know, reduce operation a bit and have their turbine limp through to the end of the period. Y- you know, you want everything to wear out at once. You don’t want brand-new leading edge protection on a turbine that’s going to come down in a couple of years.
Um, so, you know, that’s, that’s one part of it. And then the other thing is, you know, turbines earlier in their lifetime, how can we optimize the maintenance schedule with leading edge erosion? Um, so, you know, like it’s a lot cheaper to, uh, replace the LEP if you get– catch it early, but then you don’t wanna be catching it too early and replacing it, you know, constantly when you, you don’t need to.
So, um, yeah, it, this, having this knowledge will enable a site-by-site operations and maintenance strategy with respect to leading edge protection. We also have some sites who are having trouble. They’ve got a full service agreement, and the OEM is [00:28:00] responsible for, um, doing the leading edge erosion repairs and protection replacement, but the owner is on the hook for paying for it.
At the other end, we’ve got people with full service agreements where technically the, um, manufacturer is supposed to be doing the leading edge protection and paying for it, but they argue about what, when does it need to be done. Because, you know, um, the operator might think if there’s no structural risk, then we don’t need to be replacing it.
And in the meantime, you’ve got turbines spinning around for years and years and years with, you know, these huge flakes of leading edge protection s- you know, causing the flow at the tip of the turbine to, to detach and to stall, and horrible aerodynamics, huge losses in power generation and revenue. And they’re having a big fight about, you know, is this necessary to do or not?
And then, you know, they’re just gonna put the exact same product on again ’cause the [00:29:00] OEMs are re- all really, really wedded to their own particular brand. It’s like, “Well, last time we had this product and it was factory applied, it lasted one year before it s- it was worse than, you know, if it wasn’t there at all.
Uh, we don’t really want you to put that one on again.” And so, you know, having the information that they need to be able to, you know, really bring data to these discussions and, you know, makes a, yeah, data not drama. That’s a, a good approach I think, um, for any kind of negotiation and especially in the case of leading edge erosion.
And then for the high temperature fatigue part of the problem, aside from, you know, just wanting to know are your blades aging, should you be looking at remediation action or changing the operation, the other really big key thing is, uh, you might need to have a fight with y- your OEM about if this turbine has been designed and operated correctly.
And so then having the data from this, um, project is going to give you the information that you need to come into that [00:30:00] argument with, again, the data not the drama. Um, and to, you know, in- increase your chances of succeeding in that kind of really tricky negotiation.
Allen Hall 2025: So if you’re an OEM or a manufacturer of equipment, an ISP, an operator, pretty much all aspects of wind operations, you probably ought to be getting a hold of Pardalote Consulting and Rosemary to talk about the opportunity to participate in this study.
How do people get ahold of you to, to do that?
Rosemary Barnes: People can go to our website, pardaloteconsulting.com, and get in touch via the contact form there, or you can, uh, look me up on LinkedIn, Rosemary Barnes. That’s probably the easiest, fastest way to get ahold of me personally.
Allen Hall 2025: Well, Rosemary, congratulations on the Energy Innovation Fund Awards and the new three-year effort.
If you are interested in participating with Pardalote Consulting and working with Rosemary and her team [00:31:00] in Australia, reach out to her on LinkedIn and get that process started, because this report and the data from all this analysis that’ll happen over the next couple of years will be important to the wind industry.
So you need to spend some time and get ahold of Rosemary and get this process started now. So Rosemary, congratulations. Uh, thanks for being back on the podcast, and looking forward to, uh, the next couple of years. It sh- should be exciting.
Rosemary Barnes: Thanks so much, Allen.
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