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Blade Repair Academy: Tackling the Human Challenges in Blade Repair
Joel Saxum spoke to Alfred Crabtree from the Blade Repair Academy at Blades USA in Austin, TX. They discussed the challenges faced by blade repair technicians, including the physically demanding nature of the job, frequent travel, and high attrition rates. Crabtree also talks about the Blade Repair Academy’s mission to provide training and vetting for blade repair technicians, and initiatives to create a dedicated occupation and apprenticeship program for this field. Visit https://www.bladerepairacademy.com/home.
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Joel Saxum: All right guys we’re back here at Blades got Alfred Crabtree here from the Blade Repair Academy. Alfred’s big mission with the Blade Repair Academy is bringing new net capacity to the wind industry, right? We need more composite technicians. We need more composite technicians, that’s right. For sure.
We’re at Blades here. Alfred presented yesterday and this is one of my highlights from the conference, not because you’re sitting next to me and I’m saying this. Thank you. But just in general because we have had like we said, a lot of Subject matter experts, a lot of the, I’m in charge of all the blades for this fleet and that fleet discussions around inspection.
What should you do with your blades when they come out of the manufacturing facilities? DNV talking about certain things a lot of really good high level engineering stuff. Yes. But yesterday, Alfred brought A human element to the discussion. That’s right. So I’m, I say this right here, so it’s recorded and everybody knows that I’ve never repelled downwind.
That’s not my, where I’ve come into this sector. You have many times. So Alfred’s presentation yesterday was a fantastic video in the background as he spoke over it of himself, basically getting ready to drop over the hub and to send down a blade to do some work and all of the things that go into that.
While you were speaking about what’s really happening with the technicians in the field. That was the diversion. That was the thing that was different than everybody else. Everybody’s talking about high level engineering. This is what we do. You brought the human element. You said, this is what’s going on with the techs in the field.
This is how long they’re away from their families. This is the life cycle of a person in the field. This is how long they last. This is how we’re losing good capacity. That’s right. So you’re bringing different story to this environment that was built. From what I talked to a lot of other people as well very well received.
Alfred Crabtree: Yeah. I’ve got a lot of good feedback and the human element is really integral to all these initiatives and ideas. We saw a lot of science, we saw a lot of data, which is great. And a lot of business and all of that hinges upon two hands that can execute grinds with the grinder. And so that was, the focus of my talk was to bring that back into the conversation about how we deal with these problems we’re facing.
Joel Saxum: So we know we have a shortage of technicians, From the general wind technician to the specific people that worry about different problems. Hey, we’re talking blades here, right? We know we have that shortage. Can you talk to us a little bit about that life cycle of that person in the industry?
Alfred Crabtree: Sure, sure.
On average the life cycle of a blade repair technician is about five years. And it’s a short span whether you’re successful in the gig or not. And there’s a lot of factors that influence that. First off, the, it takes a couple or three years to become proficient. Yeah. With the grinder and to be able to execute.
It’s a very tough environment on the job to learn from because we have this vertical distance between the person who’s doing the work and the support person and the roles are really detached from each other. Also in this industry, people have been using skillset as a form of competition and they covet.
Their wisdom, but the tribal wisdom falls out very quickly because of this high attrition rate. So if you go out on this job, you have to be able to work outdoors in extreme weather conditions many hours a week. And we, a lot of us think we want that, but when you get there, you do it until you do it.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then work at height is a physiological switch that you either have or don’t. And there’s no way that you can macho through it. No, it’s, lead to poor health. And then the wear and tear and fatigue. You’re away from your family. Yeah, for sure. You can spend a couple weeks in a hotel room waiting for the weather to break.
That’s not good for your mental health. No. There’s a lot of challenges. And then let’s say you are successful and you’ve made a lot of money and now you want to buy a house and maybe met your partner or you’re having a child. There’s a lot of reasons why we a successful technician will want to get off the road.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. Then you want to be home. You want to be home. You want to enjoy that house that you spent all that time working for. Yeah. Enjoy that partner. You may find her or him in a random city somewhere.
Alfred Crabtree: You, this is very true. And in fact, if you’re meeting, having a successful episode in your life, you’re smiling and you’re more attractive.
And so it definitely happens. And then another thing that we need to make a distinction between blade repair technicians and wind turbine techs are mostly based. Where their farm is. Locally. They work at XYZ Wind Farm and that’s where they report to work. There certainly are traveling techs, but almost, I’m pretty sure all the blade repair techs are traveling.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. There’s not very many wind farms that can support technicians that sit at a mall. So you have those two distinctions, of course. The, the construction side of things, they’re traveling as well. But either way, so I’ve lived that traveling life, but in the oil and gas world for a while.
It’s not. It’s not good for your health. It’s hard to have a routine where you can actually, you know, if you like the gym, or you like to eat well, or anything like that. It’s difficult. It’s a young person’s game.
Alfred Crabtree: I have hundreds of thousands of reward points on hotels, and cars, and airplanes, and I’m not the least bit interested.
I spent four out of eight years in hotel rooms.
Joel Saxum: Yep.
Alfred Crabtree: And yeah.
Joel Saxum: So it doesn’t, yeah, it’s not something that you’re like, I’m gonna go and do this for 30 years. No. It’s not gonna happen. It’s not. And one of the, one of the difficult things, and you touched on it, and I’ve had discussions with a lot of people in the industry about this is, there’s not always a clear and defined career path, right?
Very rarely is it like, oh, you’re a Tech 1, Tech 2, Tech 3, Tech 4 and then once you’re a Tech 4, they’re like, yeah, you’re a Tech 4. Can you go into project management? Do you go into HSE? Do you go to be a fleet manager? That’s difficult because there’s not, that path isn’t clear.
Alfred Crabtree: It’s not clear.
And if you think about it, you would have to have new net growth to enable those positions in management to open up for your alumni or, your esteemed composites experts. They, unfortunately that expertise leaves because there’s nowhere to go.
Joel Saxum: Yeah, and after you’ve done it for long enough, you’re, you just simply, the term is you get burnt out.
Huh. You need, you’re, I gotta be done with this. So that probably happens to most people by, and I’m gonna very much generalize here. If you’re doing it in your 20s, by the time you’re hitting 30, you’re looking for something else. And the trouble is, You’re now the person out there in the field that has all of this knowledge, like you said, the tribal knowledge.
Alfred Crabtree: That’s right, and it disappears. And part of that problem is this is not an occupation. The Department of Labor does not have a job description or a job title called a blade repair technician. Yeah. Blade repair is one line item in the wind turbine technician.
Joel Saxum: It surprises me because, I’ve focused on blades for most of my time in wind.
So that’s been such a forefront in my wind energy experience that the Department of Labor doesn’t even see it as a task.
Alfred Crabtree: But, it’s not incumbent upon them, it’s incumbent upon the industry to, to apply for and create, to create that description. So that’s an initiative I’m working on. long term.
Joel Saxum: Fantastic. So you had mentioned talking with the department of labor on that one. Is there any other initiatives that you’re trying to bring the wind industry together on?
Alfred Crabtree: Sure. I spoke at the wind workshop in Boulder a couple of weeks ago and I met the folks from IACMI there and they have a workforce development effort and staff.
And so I Commiserated with them pretty quickly and they’re out of Knoxville. I’m in Tennessee. So gonna work with them as a industry sponsor. I hope I’ve spoke with the Department of Labor and have looked into what it takes to create an occupation and then I’m working on an apprenticeship program huge studying What it takes to get to do that.
It requires a corporate or industry sponsor, and then we need about a dozen people who can speak on behalf of the program. And would they accept it as industry leaders? Okay. Bureaucracy is not my strong point, but I’m pretty passionate about it and so far everyone in the industry I’ve talked to is on board and willing to help.
Joel Saxum: It’s part of the IRA bill, right? There’s things in there now. I don’t know the specifics on it. I’d have to talk to some, People smarter than me, but I do know that there’s a line item in there that says if you want to qualify for XYZ, you need to have people that are working here as a part of an apprenticeship.
Alfred Crabtree: That’s right. And so what’s unfair is that there are apprenticeship programs for wind turbine tech. And so companies like ISPs that are just in blades to get that benefit. It’s really their clients who get the benefit. Okay. And so they have to hire contractors that have a certain percentage that go through that program.
So blade service providers may be putting people through. A useless apprenticeship program for them just to get this contract to get involved in this business And so if we had a separate program that was just for blade techs, I think that would level the playing field.
Joel Saxum: Yeah for the opportunity for companies to take advantage of that and we’re looking at the same concept I like to speak on it a lot is rising waters floats all ships.
That’s a huge theme for me, right? So if we bring that standard up and we bring this an accreditation Or an apprenticeship program or something forward. For blade technicians, whether they come through your program or anybody else, right?
Alfred Crabtree: We’re raising the whole industry exactly and I think to that end if I can get a lot of the industry leaders involved I think here’s what there’s my challenge to the industry.
Let’s create a scholarship to fund Let’s say 400 new technicians to enter the field and at the same time upscale 200 existing technicians, we need upscale technicians today to take care of the serial flop problem. Yeah. Yeah. And we’re going to take those people away from just your preventative and your typical maintenance that comes up.
So we need to backfill that. And if we can’t. As an industry contribute to new net growth. It’s not, we can, we take it out of the realm of competition and we’re not competing with skill sets. People aren’t jumping for a dollar here and there. That doesn’t help anybody. That’s the other half is that technicians can take advantage of this market of scarcity and jump from ship to ship.
Joel Saxum: And it leads to poor quality, to be honest with you. Yes. Because it’s great, technician on an extra dollar. I’m not gonna blame you for that. But when we jump from company to company, before you even get involved in, I’ve seen this, before you get involved in company A, when you came from company Y, you don’t know their HSE policies, you don’t even know how your fuel card works in your truck, before you’re heading to site, whether there’s a different process on a different thing, because in the industry, a lot, to be honest with you, unless you have work instructions from an OEM, and you’re working on blades, there’s not a lot of stuff that’s standardized.
Unfortunately. Unfortunately. And that’s something you’re working on. Yes. So let’s, we’ll switch topics a little bit. Alfred, the, how I originally got in contact with you was Blade Repair Academy. Tell us about Blade Repair Academy.
Alfred Crabtree: All right. Blade Repair Academy is a startup that my partners and I began about a year ago in the, if you build it, they will come.
There we go. Thing, we’re grinders we’re field techs, a couple of us. And we know what you need to be able to do the work. And, I contend that it’s the grinder that you have to unlock, because everything depends upon the grinder, and in my opinion, existing training programs don’t give you enough time or enough scale and size to really reflect an analog to what you do in the field.
So that’s what we are doing. We have simulated lightning strikes that people repair. We have a learning management system, it’s a database, and we have people They fill out a report while they do their repair. Just like you’re in the field, but in a controlled environment. Exactly. And since every repair panel and damage is the same, then we can compare everybody’s work.
Yeah. Everybody has to take out a certain size of core. And so now I have a rubric to grade on and we now have insight. And one of the main things that I offer as a product is a vetting service. Where that’s huge. If you’re going to hire somebody who has skills. You have no way to prove it until he’s been out in the field and you get some feedback.
And that may cost you half your season if the guy’s not really what he thinks he is.
Joel Saxum: And monetarily, if you have someone up there doing poor quality repairs. Wait, that could screw you. You could lose contracts. For sure. There’s a lot of, there’s a lot of let alone the safety and other things, but the quality side of it.
That’s a different, whole different game.
Alfred Crabtree: I think that’s the main reason why people hold back from growing their teams, because they’re afraid of losing quality control, because they can’t control the input. They can’t control what’s coming in. So we vet, we, let me just finish here. Yeah.
We vet people. They can come and execute one of these repairs with just work instructions, no prompts under the instruction and then. They’ll complete it and you’ll have a report and you’ll know what they’re capable of.
Joel Saxum: I think that’s huge. You’re, so you’re saying one of the things, of course, full training programs here, but we’re, you’re talking, we can vet people.
If you’re an ISP and your engineering staff doesn’t have the time, or you don’t have the time in HR, whatever you want to grow your team, send a couple of guys over to Alfred that he can vet them. QC them, make sure they are what they say they are. That’s right. That’s one thing. The other concept that you and I have talked about off air a little bit as well is the idea of upskilling people to execute on some of these serial defects in the fleet.
Now, so this is a concept and it’s a little bit, it was new to me, but man, you thought through it, you’ve got it. But the concept in my mind is, hey, we know we have this OEM that has this issue and here’s the work instruction. Send me the guys. I’ll have them go through the work instruction.
They’ll be stamp approved from Blade Repair Academy. They can execute on the COD effect. Get them out there and get them fixing it.
Alfred Crabtree: That’s right. And we can tailor the curriculum and the sample board to the layup that they’re facing. We can simulate the damage that they’re facing. And of course, we can quickly validate. and or supplement and, Train them till the point that they can go out and do that work. And with a finite amount of money set back to solve these problems that are, we know are going to continue to recur. We have to come up with the system to rapidly deploy and take care of these things while they’re sitting in a yard and not deal with them when they’re up on the turbine.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. We’ve got to keep those cranes moving. Yeah. And at the same time, so we’ve got that we’re talking about getting serial defects fixed and then we’re going to go into the field and we’re going to put complete net new capacity. So new blade repair technicians that maybe haven’t been on a blade before.
We’ll get them through your program so that we can see if they have the skills to go do it. Instead of finding out half of the season that they don’t.
Alfred Crabtree: That’s right. We believe that, you’ve got a five year lifespan with a technician. Let’s plan on that. Okay. And if we do that, we know that it’s probably wise to front load the training so you can get productivity out of these people really early, right?
And the matrix of skills and the things that you vet for, you’re going to vet for safety. The whole industrial training thing, the GWO path. Love it. Great. Then you’re going to vote. Then, in my opinion, you should vet for composite skills. Okay. Because you can be a good technician who can grind, but maybe.
You’re not going to be able to work at height, but we don’t need to throw that technician away. We need, there’s plenty of work on the ground, especially in the serial flaw world. So then you vet for height and then we all, and any employer has to vet for character and that’s especially important in this game because you’re putting a guy on a rope or in a basket, hundreds of miles from your office who is there to self manage.
And So on top of all these things we gotta have, it’s a brutal, it’s a brutal regime to get a good blade
Joel Saxum: deck.
And the existing issue today, or one of the existing issues, this is everything you just explained. And now that person is being asked many times to train someone in the field. And it’s uncontrolled at that time it’s hey, the weather just broke, we just got up on a blade, I don’t have time today.
Alfred Crabtree: That’s a very common place. It’s the standard, and the field is a very hard place to trade. If you’re up on blade, you have very little cognitive bandwidth left. And you’re under pressure to perform. You’ve been on standby for five days. And guess what? You may be really good at your job, but that doesn’t mean you’re a teacher.
Exactly. In fact, the techs who really crush it are usually head down, blinders on, don’t meet anyone. Yeah. For sure. Extreme stuff. It’s and it’s a, I think we also need to emphasize this is a craft, okay? We’re not swapping out parts. Yeah, we have it’s science meets art. It is. You have to make choices about what you remove from the blade.
Joel Saxum: And then you, and by the way, it’s moving and it’s bucking and you’ve got a 36 grade video where you’re showing the guy and all the different, I was just walking through the steps of the video you showed during your presentation and the clip rope clip, rope. I’m like, just remembering that sequence of how to keep yourself safe up on the ropes.
You haven’t even got the grinder out. Yeah. And so to be turned on, to be switched on, you’ve got to be, into what you’re doing at that point. Otherwise, it’s unsafe otherwise. So if you’re being asked to do too much in the field, it’s tough. So in my opinion, and this is why I’ve gravitated towards your message and talking with you is we know we need new net capacity right now, dedicated blade composite repair, training facilities and entities.
Some ISPs are doing it internally. Yes. But there isn’t a facility that has the push that you have, that I see.
Alfred Crabtree: I scaled up to a facility that I could easily put 200 people, even 400 people a year through my program. There, I, not many companies are going to invest like I did to build a facility that is that deluxe for the four to eight people that they’re going to, they’re going to train.
And then in the start of the season, the manager is going to take his hat off and they’re going to put his training hat on and he’s going to be doing double duty. You’re going to get it done. And then you’re going to go back to managing the season starts and you trained for, and you had tried it three and in the middle of the season, you can’t adapt, but if you use a third party like blade repair Academy, you can hire that guy, we can vet them.
You can put them right out. Good to go and you can scale up and down. It’s a paradigm shift, but I think people should look into it.
Joel Saxum: One of the cool things that you told me about your facility and the Blade Repair Academy thing that you’ve got going on is everybody in the industry seems to be on board.
So you’re getting even materials companies donating some stuff like, Hey, here’s some new material. Here’s this, we’re looking at doing a, a U UV cure kind of demos and these kinds of things with this product. And so when a technician comes through there, they get exposure to a lot of the state of the art technologies and stuff.
Alfred Crabtree: That’s going, yeah, We really want to be a technology demonstration center and part of it is just. That I’m a kid and I love playing around with this stuff and experimenting, but it’s also about finding best practices and new uses. We have, we have legacy chemicals and we have legacy protocols because we’re afraid.
To try different things in the work environment. And so I’ve got a lab where you can come and it’s okay. If you mess up the repair, you learn from the mess ups more than you do the good stuff. Yeah. Let’s try this new chemical, the UV cure systems out there. Game changer, cutting cure times from six hours to 20 minutes.
Yeah. We’re watching it right down here. They’re doing it on the floor here. They’re doing it on the floor here with no VOCs one part systems. The suppliers are coming up With solutions and I’ve had a couple come to me and ask for our feedback because they don’t know about The field scenario and they’ve changed formulations based upon our feedback and changed packaging.
Yeah. We’re grateful. Yeah. Obviously it makes sense to, for suppliers to put their products in our hands and get them in the hands of people. And I think that’s win for everybody. It’s very, we’re out, we’re agnostic and we take all comers and we’ll, we’ll do LEP demos and put a few stuff, a few products up against each other.
Yeah. Infusion is a new technology that we’re exploring. We’re having actually a couple of clinics Thursday and Friday and Monday and Tuesday. So I’m always open to hear from anybody and get visits from anybody. We know we have to validate our claims and we have to be vetted and we’re new in the industry.
So I encourage anyone who wants to talk about it or come down and see what we do. It’s definitely unique.
Joel Saxum: I like it. I like the whole concept and I think that the industry needs it. Not only our U. S. Sorry, but globally it’s needed. Yes. We need capacity everywhere.
Alfred Crabtree: It’s amazing the Interest I’m getting on LinkedIn
Joel Saxum: from all over the world.
Yeah. Let’s touch on that okay So we’ve went through the message about what technicians are going through in the field we’ve talked about Blade Repair Academy, some of your initiatives and the things you’re doing. The last thing here, how do people get a hold of you? They want to get a hold of Blade Repair Academy, how do they do it?
Alfred Crabtree: bladerepairacademy.com I’m alfred.crabtree@bladerepairacademy.com. You can find me on LinkedIn. The video we were talking about is on YouTube, if you look up my name. And the commute, it’s just it’s the rappel from the nacelle down to A damage area and what it takes and what we’re trying to what I was trying to convey yesterday to people was, you know There’s a human being who has to get here in these conditions doing these Exerting himself or herself to this degree.
Joel Saxum: So keep that in mind when you’re, hiring or firing or Commending or and when you need someone vetted send them to Blade Repair Academy.
Alfred Crabtree: Yeah send them to us. We can really help you make sure your workforce is dialed in
Blade Repair Academy: Tackling the Human Challenges in Blade Repair
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German Bird Study Finds 99% Avoid Turbines, SunZia Progress
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German Bird Study Finds 99% Avoid Turbines, SunZia Progress
Allen, Joel, Rosemary, and Yolanda discuss a German study finding 99.8% of birds avoid wind turbines, challenging long-standing collision risk models. They also cover Pattern Energy’s SunZia project nearing completion as the Western Hemisphere’s largest renewable project, lightning monitoring strategies for large-scale wind farms, and offshore flange alignment technology.
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Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!
You are listening to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by build turbines.com. Learn, train, and be a part of the Clean Energy Revolution. Visit build turbines.com today. Now, here’s your host. Alan Hall, Joel Saxon, Phil Totaro, and Rosemary Barnes.
Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host Alan Hall in the queen city of Charlotte, North Carolina, where a cold front is just blown through, but we’re not nearly as cold as Joel was up in Wisconsin, Joel, you had a bunch of snow, which is really the first big storm of the season.
Joel Saxum: Yeah, the crazy thing here was the Wind Energy Podcast. So since that storm I, we, we got up in northern Wisconsin, 18 inches of snow, and then we drove down on last Saturday after US Thanksgiving through Iowa, there’s another 18 inches of snow in Des Moines. I talked to a more than one operator that had icing and snow issues at their wind farms all through the northern Midwest of these states.
So from [00:01:00] North Dakota. All the way down to Nebraska, Northern Missouri, over into Indiana. There was a ton of turbines that were iced up and or snowed in from that storm,
Allen Hall: and Rosemary was in warm Australia with other icing knowledge or de-icing knowledge while the US has been suffering.
Rosemary Barnes: But you know, on the first day of summer here, a couple of days ago, it was minus one here overnight.
So. Um, yeah, it’s, uh, unseasonable and then tomorrow it’ll be 35.
Allen Hall: The smartest one of us all has been Yolanda, down in Austin, Texas, where it doesn’t get cold.
Yolanda Padron: Never. It’s so nice. It’s raining today and that’s about it. Traffic’s going crazy.
Joel Saxum: Rain is welcome for us, isn’t it though, Yolanda?
Yolanda Padron: It’s sweet. It doesn’t happen very often, but when it does.
Very rainy for like 24 hours.
Allen Hall: We’ve been saving a story for a couple of weeks until Rosemary is back and it has to do with birds and a year long study over [00:02:00] in Germany. And as we know, one of the most persistent arguments against wind energy has been the risk to birds and permitting and operation shutdowns have been the norm, uh, based on models and predicted collision risks.
Well. A new study comes, has just come out that says, what if the models are all wrong? And the new German study suggests that they may be wrong. The Federal Association of Offshore Wind Energy, known by its German acronym, BWO Commission Research to examine. Actual collision risk at a coastal wind farm in Northern Germany.
The study was conducted by Biocon Consult, a German research and consulting firm, and funded by eight major offshore wind operators, including Sted, Vattenfall, RWE, and E, roa, and. Rosemary using some of the newer technology. They were able to track bird movements with radar [00:03:00] and AI and stereo vision cameras to, to watch birds move through and around, uh, some of these wind farms.
And it analyzed more than 4 million bird movements and over 18 months, and they searched for collision victims and what they found was pretty striking more than 99.8% of both day migrating and night migrating birds. Avoided the turbines entirely. The study found no correlation between migration intensity and collision rates.
And BD and BWO says The combination of radar and AI based cameras represents a methodological breakthrough. Uh, that can keep turbines moving even when birds are in transit. This is pretty shocking news, honestly, Rosemary, I, I haven’t seen a lot of long-term studies about bird movements where they really had a lot of technology involved to, besides binoculars, to, to look at bird movement.
The [00:04:00] 99.8% of the migrating birds are going around The turbines. No, the turbines are there. That’s. Really new information.
Rosemary Barnes: I think. I mean, if you never heard anything about wind turbines and birds, I don’t think you’d be shocked like that. Birds mostly fly around obstacles. That’s probably an intuitive, intuitive answer.
Because we’ve had it shoved down our throat for decades now. Wind turbines are huge bird killers. It’s kind of like, it’s been repeated so often that it kind of like sinks in and becomes instinctive, even though, yeah, I do think that, um, it’s. Not that, that shocking that an animal with eyes avoids a big obstacle when it’s flying.
Um, but it is really good that somebody has actually done more than just trying to look for bird deaths. You know, they’ve actually gone out, seen what can we find, and then reported that they found mostly nothing. We already knew the real risks for birds, like hundreds or thousands, even millions of times [00:05:00] more, um, deadly to birds are things like.
Cats. Cars, buildings, even power lines kill more birds than, um, wind turbines do. In fact, like when you look at, um, the studies that look at wind, um, bird deaths from wind turbines, most of those are from people driving, like workers driving to site and hitting a bird with their cars. Um, you know, that’s attributed to wind energy.
Not a surprise maybe for people that have been following very closely, but good to see the report. Nonetheless.
Joel Saxum: I think it’s a win for like the global wind industry, to be honest with you, because like you said, there’s, there’s no, um, like real studies of this with, that’s backed up by metric data with, like I said, like the use stereo cameras.
Radar based AI detection and, and some of those things, like if you talk with some ornithologists for the big OEMs and stuff, they’ve been dabbling in those things. Like I dabbled in a project without a DTU, uh, a while back and it, but it wasn’t large scale done like this. A [00:06:00] particular win this study in the United States is there’s been this battle in the United States about what birds and what, you know, raptors or these things are controlled or should have, um, controls over them by the governments for wind installations.
The big one right now is US Fish and Wildlife Service, uh, controls raptors, right? So that’s your eagle’s, owls, hawks, those kind of things. So they’ll map out the nests and you can only go in certain areas, uh, or build in certain areas depending on when their mating seasons are. And they put mild buffers on some of them.
It’s pretty crazy. Um, but the one rule in the United States, it’s been kind of floated out there, like, we’re gonna throw this in your face, wind industry. Is the Federal Migratory Bird Act, which is also how they regulate all like the, the hunting seasons. So it’s not, it’s the reason that the migratory birds are controlled by the federal government as opposed to state governments is because they cross state lines.
And if we can [00:07:00] prove now via this study that wind farms are not affecting these migratory bird patterns or causing deaths, then it keeps the feds out of our, you know, out of the permitting process for. For birds,
Rosemary Barnes: but I’m not sure this is really gonna change that much in terms of the environmental approvals that you need to do because it’s a, you know, a general, a general thing with a general, um, statistical population doesn’t look at a specific wind farm with a specific bird and you’re still need to go.
You’re still going to have to need to look at that every time you’re planning an actual wind farm. That’s it’s fair.
Yolanda Padron: And it’s funny sometimes how people choose what they care or don’t care about. I know living in a high rise, birds will hit the window like a few a month. And obviously they will pass away from impact and the building’s not going anywhere.
Just like a turbine’s not going anywhere. And I’ve never had anybody complain to [00:08:00] me about living and condoning high rises because of how they kill the birds. And I’ve had people complain to me about wind turbines killing the birds. It’s like, well, they’re just there.
Joel Saxum: If we’re, if we’re talking about energy production, the, if everybody remembers the deep water horizon oil spill 2010 in the Gulf of Mexico.
That oil spill killed between 801.2 million birds. Just that one.
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Allen Hall: well in the high desert of Central New Mexico, near a lot of what were ghost towns that were abandoned during the Great Depression.
If there is a flurry of activity pattern, energy sunzi, a project is near completion after 20 years of planning and permitting. When. It’s supposed to be finished in 2026. It’ll be the largest renewable energy project in the Western hemisphere. More than 900 turbines spread across multiple counties. A 550 mile transmission line stretching to Arizona and then onward to California, and $11 billion bet that’s being made on American wind.
Now, Joel, it’s a kind of a combination of two OEMs there, Vestus and ge. The pace of building has been really rapid over the last six, eight months from what I can [00:10:00] tell.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. We have talked to multiple ISPs, EPC contractors. Um, of course we know some of the engineers involved in building a thing on the pattern side.
Right. But this sheer size of this thing, right, it’s, it is three and a half gigawatts, right? You’re talking 900 turbines and, and so big that one OEM really couldn’t, I mean, it’s a, it’s a risk hedge, right? But couldn’t fulfill the order. So you have massive ge tur set of turbines out there. Massive set of vestas turbines out there.
And I think one thing that’s not to be missed on this project as well is that transmission line, that high voltage transmission line that’s feeding this thing. Because that’s what we need, right? That was when we built, started building up big time in Texas, the cre, the crest lines that were built to bring all of that wind energy to the major cities in Texas.
That was a huge part of it. And we have seen over the last six months, we have seen loans canceled, uh, permits being pulled and like troubles being in hurdles, being thrown up in the face of a lot of these transmission lines that are planned. [00:11:00] These big ones in the states. And that’s what we need for energy security in the future, is these big transmission lines to go.
So we can get some of this generation to, uh, to the market, get electrons flowing into homes and into industry. But this thing here, man, um, I know we’ve been talking about Sunz, the Sunz project, uh, and all the people involved in it, in the wind industry for a, what, two, three years now? Oh, at least. Yeah.
It’s been in planning and development stage for much longer than that. But the. The, the big bet. I like it. Um, bringing a lot of, um, bringing a lot of economic opportunity to New Mexico, right? A place that, uh, if you’ve driven across New Mexico lately, it needs it in a dire way. Uh, and this is how wind energy can bring a lot of, uh, economic boom to places that, uh, hadn’t had it in the past.
Allen Hall: And this being the largest project to date, there’s a, I think a couple more than a pipeline that could be larger if they get moving on them. We see another project like this five years [00:12:00] from now, or we think we’re gonna scale down and stay in the gigawatt range just because of the scale and the things that Sunzi went through.
Joel Saxum: We have the choke chair, Sierra Madre project up in Wyoming that’s been chugging the Anschutz Corporation’s been pushing that thing for a long time. That’s, that’s along the same size of this unit. Um, and it’s the same thing. It’s, it’s kind of hinged on, I mean, there’s permitting issues, but it’s hinged on a transmission line being built.
I think that one’s like 700. 50 miles of transmission. That’s supposed to be, it’s like Wyoming all the way down to Las Vegas. That project is sitting out there. Um, it’s hard to build something of that size in, like say the wind corridor, the Texas, Oklahoma, uh, you know, all the way up to the Dakotas, just simply because of the massive amount of landowners and public agencies involved in those things.
It’s a bit easier when you get out West New Mexico. Um, I could see something like this happening possibly in Nevada. At some point in time to feed that California [00:13:00] side of things, right? But they’re doing massive solar farms out there. Same kind of concept. Um, I, I think that, um, I would love to see something like this happen, but to invest that kind of capital, you’ve got to have some kind of ITC credits going for you.
Um, otherwise, I mean, $11 billion is, that’s a lot of money
Allen Hall: since Zia will have PTC. Which is a huge driver about the economics for the entire project.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. But you’re also seeing at the same time, just because of the volatility of what’s happening in the states wind wise, uh, there was a big article out today of someone who got wind that EDF may be selling its entire
Allen Hall: US onshore renewable operation or US renewable operation.
That was Wood Mac that. Put that out. And I’m still not sure that’s a hundred percent reliable, but they have been 50% for sale for a while. Everybody, I think everybody knew that.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. I don’t know if it’s a hundred percent reliable as well. I would agree with you there. However, there’s, it’s the [00:14:00] same thought process of European company pulling outta the United States.
That’s where a lot of the renewable energy capital is, or it has been fed to a lot of that capital comes from Canada and other places too. Right. But that’s where it’s been fed through. Um, but you’re starting to see some, some. Uh, purchasing some acquisitions, a little bit of selling and buying here and there.
I don’t, I don’t think that there’s, uh, massive ones on the horizon. That’s just my opinion though.
Allen Hall: Well, won’t the massive ones be offshore if we ever get back to it?
Joel Saxum: Yeah, you would think so, right? But I, that’s gonna take a, uh, an administration change. I mean the, the, all that stuff you’d see out in California, like when we were originally seeing the leases come out and we were like, oh, great.
More offshore opportunity. Ah, but it’s California, so it’ll be kind of tough. It probably won’t be till 20 32, 20, something like that. I don’t think we’ll see possibly California offshore wind until 2040 if we’re lucky.
Allen Hall: Joel, what were the two wind turbines selected for Sunz? They were both new models, right?
One from Renova and then the other one from [00:15:00] Vestas,
Joel Saxum: so the Vestas was 242 V, 1 63, 4 0.5 megawatts machines, and the, and the GE Renova. Just so we get, make sure I get clarity on this. 674 of its three. They were 3.6, but they’re 3.61 50 fours.
Allen Hall: Okay. So both turbine types are relatively new. New to the manufacturer.
CZ has two new turbines styles on the site.
Joel Saxum: Yeah, we were told that when they were originally like getting delivered, that they didn’t have type certificates yet. That’s how new they were.
Allen Hall: So Yolanda. As Sania starts to turn on, what are things that they need to be aware of blade wise,
Yolanda Padron: besides the lightning and the dust in New Mexico?
It’s probably gonna tip them. I don’t know exactly what they’re counting with as far as leading edge protection goes.
Allen Hall: Pattern usually doesn’t, uh, have a full service agreement. Joel, do you remember if that was an FSA? I don’t think so.
Joel Saxum: I would say [00:16:00] because those are Vestas turbines on the one that, yes, Vestas really doesn’t sell a turbine without it.
Knowing internally how big patterns engineering group are, I don’t know if they can completely take on the operations of a thousand more turbine, 900 more turbines overnight. Right? So I think that there is gonna be some OE EMM involvement in these things, uh, simply to be at that scale as well. I don’t know of anywhere else with a 1 54 install a GE 1 54.
So the things that I wouldn’t looking out is the. It’s the brand new type stuff, right? Like do internal inspections when they’re on the ground. You don’t know what kind of condition these things are in, what, you know, what is the, you haven’t, nobody’s seen them. Like you’re the first ones to get to get your hands on these things.
Yolanda Padron: Yeah, I think they’re definitely gonna have to go with some sort of consulting or something externally as far as what exactly they’re dealing with. I know, Rosemary, you’ve touched on it a lot, right about. [00:17:00] How the changing the blade types and changing the turbines every x amount of years is really not conducive to, to being able to repeat the same results.
And if you’re having that for hundreds of turbines at a new site that you’ve already had so much time and money invested in creating, it’ll, it’s, it’s a big undertaking.
Rosemary Barnes: It’s really interesting because. When you have such a large wind farm be, I’m assuming one of the first wind farms may be the first to get this new turbine types, then if there’s a serial defect, it’s gonna be very obvious.
’cause with smaller wind farms, one of the problems is that, uh, the numbers are too small to definitively say whether something is, um, serial or just random bad luck. Um, but when you get. So how many wind turbines is it?
Joel Saxum: Almost a thousand total. It’s [00:18:00] 674 GE turbines and 242 Vesta turbines.
Rosemary Barnes: You can do statistics on that kind of a population and this area.
I mean, there’s lightning there, right? Like this is not an area where you’re not gonna see lightning. You know, in know the first couple of years, like there, there will be. Hundreds of turbines damaged by lightning in the, the first couple of years I would suggest, um, or, you know, maybe not. Maybe the LPS are so, so great that that doesn’t happen.
But, you know, the typical standard of LPS would mean that, you know, even if you only see, say we see 10 strikes per turbine to year and you get a 2% damage rate, that is, you know, lots of, lots of individual instances of blade damage, even if everything works as it should according to certification. And if it doesn’t, if you see a 10% damage rate or something from those strikes, then you are going to know that, you know, the, um, LPS is not performing the way that the standard says that it should.
It’s not like that’s a slam dunk for, um, [00:19:00] proving that the design was not sufficient or the certification wasn’t correct. It’s always really, really tricky. My recommendation would be to make sure that you are monitoring the lightning strikes, so you know exactly which turbine is struck and when, and then go inspect them and see the damage.
Ideally, you’re also gonna be measuring some of the characteristics of the lightning as well. But you do that from day one. Then if there is a problem, then you’re at least gonna have enough information within the, um, you know, the serial defect liability period to be able to do something about it.
Joel Saxum: Let me ask you a question on that, on just the, that lightning monitoring piece then.
So this is something that’s just, it’s of course we do this all the time, but this is boiling up in the thing. How do you, how do you monitor for lightning on 916 turbines? Probably spread, spread across. 200 square miles.
Rosemary Barnes: Well, there’s, there’s heaps of different ways that you can do it. Um, so I mean, you can do remote, remote lightning detection, which is [00:20:00] not good enough.
Then there are a range of different technologies that you can install in the, um, turbines. Um, the most simple and longest standing solution was a lightning cart, which is installed on the down conductor at the blade route. That will just tell you the amplitude of the biggest strike that that turbine has ever seen when it’s red.
I have literally never seen a case where the lightning card definitively or even provided useful evidence one way or another when there’s a, a dispute about lightning. So then you move on to solutions that, uh, um. Measuring they use, uh, Alan, you’re the electrical engineer, but they, they use the, the principle that when there’s a large current flowing, then it also induces a magnetic field.
And then you can use that to make a, a, a change and read characteristics about it. So you can tell, um, well first of all, that that turbine was definitely struck. So there are simple systems that can do that quite cheaply. The OGs ping [00:21:00] sensor, does that really cost effectively? Um, and then OG Ping. Phoenix Contact and Polytech all have a different product.
Um, all have their own products that can tell you the charge, the duration, the um, polarity or the, yeah, the, the, if it’s a positive or a negative strike, um, yeah, rise time, things like that. Um, about the strike, that’s probably, probably, you don’t. Need to go to that extent. Um, I would say just knowing definitively which turbine was struck and when is gonna give you what you need to be able to establish what kind of a problem or if you have a problem and what kind of a problem it is.
Joel Saxum: I think that like an important one there too is like, uh, so I know that Vest is in a lot of their FSA contracts will say if it’s struck by lightning, we have 48 or 72 hours to inspect it. Right. And when you’re talking something of this scale, 916 turbines out there, like if there’s a lightning storm, like [00:22:00]we’ve been watching, we watch a lot of lightning storms come through, uh, certain wind farms that we’re working with.
And you see 20, 30, 40 turbines get struck. Now if a storm comes through the middle of this wind farm, you’re gonna have 200 turbines get struck. How in the hell do you go out without ha Like you need to have something that can narrow you down to exactly the turbines that we’re struck. That being said that next morning or over the next two days, you need to deploy like 10 people in trucks to drive around and go look at these things.
That’s gonna be a massive problem. Pattern has about 3000 turbines, I think in their portfolio, and they, so they’re, they’re familiar with lightning issues and how things happen, but something at this scale when it’s just like so peaky, right? ’cause a storm isn’t through every night, so you don’t have that need to go and inspect things.
But when you do. That is gonna be a massive undertaking. ’cause you gotta get people out there to literally like, at a minimum, binocular these things to make sure there isn’t any damage on ’em. And it’s gonna be, there’s gonna be storms where hundreds of turbines get hit.
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, well [00:23:00] those three companies, those three products that I mentioned are aiming to get around that.
I mean, it will depend how contracts are worded. I know in Australia it is not the norm to check for lightning ever. So if the contract says someone has to, you know, use human eyeballs to verify lightning damage or not, then. That’s, you know, that’s what has to happen. But all of these technologies do aim to offer a way that you wouldn’t have to inspect every single one.
So Polytech is using, um, different lightning characteristics and then they’ve got an algorithm which they say will learn, um, which types of strike cause damage that could. Potentially progress to catastrophic damage. Um, and then the other one that is interesting is the eLog Ping solution because they’ve also got the, um, damage monitoring.
That’s their original aim of their product, was that if there’s a damage on the blade tip, say it’s been punctured by lightning, it, it actually makes a noise. Like it makes a whistle and they listen out for that. So if you combine the [00:24:00]lightning detection and the, um, like blade. Tip structure monitoring from Ping, then you can get a good idea of which ones are damaged.
Like if it’s damaged badly enough to fail, it is almost certainly gonna be making a noise that the ping can, um, detect
Allen Hall: as wind energy professionals. Staying informed is crucial, and let’s face it, d. That’s why the Uptime podcast recommends PES Wind Magazine. PES Wind offers a diverse range of in-depth articles and expert insights that dive into the most pressing issues facing our energy future.
Whether you’re an industry veteran or new to wind, PES Wind has the high quality content you need. Don’t miss out. Visit PE ps win.com today and this quarter’s PES WIN Magazine. There’s a lot of great articles, and as we roll into December. You’ll have time to sit down and read them. You can download a free copy@pswin.com.
And there’s a, a really interesting article about [00:25:00] offshore, and there’s a number of articles about offshore this quarter. Well, two Dutch companies developed a solution to really one of the industry’s most persistent headaches. And when it’s flange alignment. So when you’re trying to connect the transition piece to the mono paddle out in the water, it’s not really easy to do.
Uh. So PES interviewed, uh, Ontech and Dutch heavy lift consultants to explain their flange alignment system known as FAS. And it started when a turbine installation needed a safer, faster way to try to align these two pieces. So if you can think about the amount of steel we’re talking about, these are really massive pieces you’re trying to line and put bolts in, not easy to do out in the ocean.
Uh, so what this new device can do is it can align the flanges in a couple of minutes. It can reshape deformed, flanges and Joel, as you know, everything offshore can get dinged warped. That’s pretty easy to do, so you don’t want that when you have a, a heavily loaded, bolted joint, like those flanges to be [00:26:00] perfectly, uh, smooth to one another and, and tight.
So these two companies, Amek and Dutch heavy Lifting consultants have come up with some pretty cool technology to speed up. Installations of wind turbines.
Joel Saxum: Yeah, I would say anybody who’s interested in wind, offshore wind, any of that sort, and you have a little bit of an engineering mind or an engineering, uh, quirk in your mind.
As, as I think we said earlier in the episode today, engineering nerds. Um, I would encourage you to go and look at some heavy lift operations offshore, whether it is offshore wind, offshore oil and gas, offshore construction of any time or any type even pipe lay operations and stuff. Just to take, just to take in the, the sheer scale.
At how, uh, at how these things are being done and how difficult that would be to manage. Think about the just tons and tons of steel and, uh, trying to put these pieces together and these different things. And then remember that these vessels are thousands of dollars, sometimes a minute for how specialized they are.
Right? So a lot of money gets put into [00:27:00] how the, like when we’re putting monopiles in that these transit transition pieces get put on. A lot of money has been spent on. The ver like technology to get, make sure they’re super, super tight tolerances on the verticality of those when they’re driving the actual piles in.
And then you’re doing that offshore in a nasty environment, sometimes from a jack up vessel, sometimes not from a jack vessel, sometimes from a mor or like a, you know, a pseudo mor vessel on, uh. Dynamic positioning systems, and then you’re swinging these big things with cranes and all this stuff, like, it’s just a crazy amount of engineering eng engineering and operational knowledge that goes into making this stuff happen.
And if you make one little mistake, all of a sudden that piece can be useless. Right? Like I’ve been a part of, of heavy offshore lifting for oil and gas where they’ve. It’s built a piece on shore, got it out to the vessel, went to go put it off sub sea in 2000 meters of water, lowered it all the way down there and it didn’t fit like you just burned [00:28:00] hundreds and hundreds and thousands of millions of dollars in time.
So this kind of technology that Anima Tech is putting out in Dutch Heavy Lift consultants. This is the key to making sure that these offshore operations go well. So kudos to these guys for solve for seeing a problem and solving a problem with a real solution. Uh, instead of just kind of like dreaming things up, making something happen here.
I’d like to see it.
Allen Hall: Check out that article and many more in this quarter’s. PES Wind Magazine downloaded free copy@pswind.com. Well, Yolanda, as we know, everybody’s out with Sky Specs, uh, doing blade inspections, and so many turbines have issues this year. A lot of hail damage, a lot of lightning damage and some serial defects from what I can tell.
Uh, we’re, we’re getting to that crazy season where we’re trying to get ready for next year and prioritize. This is the time to call C-I-C-N-D-T and actually take a deep hard look at some of this damage, particularly at the blade root area. We’ve seen a lot more of that where, [00:29:00] uh, there’s been failures of some blades at the root where the bolt connection is.
So you’re gonna have to get some NDT done. Boy, oh boy, you better get C-I-C-N-D-T booked up or get them on the phone because they’re getting really busy.
Yolanda Padron: Yeah, you definitely need to schedule something. Make sure that you know at least where you stand, right? Be because imagine going into try to fix something and just have a hammer and then close your eyes and then see what you can fix.
That way, like sometimes it feels like when you’re in operations, if you don’t have the proper. The proper inspections done, which sometimes there’s, there’s not enough budget for, or appetite or knowledge, um, in some of these projects to have early on. You come in and just, you, you see the end result of failure modes and you might see something that’s really, really expensive to fix now.
Or you might think of, oh, this problem happened at X, Y, Z. [00:30:00] Site, so it’ll probably happen here. That’s not necessarily the case. So getting someone like NDT to be able to come in and actually tell you this is what’s going on in your site, and these are the potential failure modes that you’re going to see based on what you’re getting and this is what will probably happen, or this is what is happening over time in your site, is a lot more indicative to be able to solve those problems faster and way.
More way, in a way less expensive manner than if you were to go in and just try to fix everything reactively. You know, if you have half a bond line missing. Then later you, your blade breaks. It’s like, well, I mean, you, you could, you could have seen it, you could have prevented it. You could have saved that blade and saved yourself millions and millions of dollars and, and so much more money in downtime.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. The first time I ran into Jeremy Hess and the C-A-C-N-D team was actually on an insurance project where it was Yolanda, like you said, like [00:31:00] they let it go. The, the operator and the OEM let it go way too long, and all of a sudden they had a, like wind farm wide shutdown costing them millions in production.
Uh, to find these, these issues that, uh, could have been found in a different manner when you talk to the team over there. Um, why we like to recommend them from the podcast is Jeremy has an answer for everything. He’s been around the world. He’s worked in multiple industries, aerospace, race, cars, sailboats, you name it.
Um, he’s been a client to almost everybody, you know, in the wind industry, all the OEMs, right? So he knows the, the issues. He has the right tool sets. To dive into them. You, you may not know, not, you don’t need to be an NDT expert to be able to have a conversation because he will coach you through, okay, here you have this problem.
Alright, this is how we would look at it. This is how we would solve it. Here’s how you would monitor for it, and then this is how you would, you know, possibly fix it. Or this is what the, the solution looks like. Um, because I think that’s one of the [00:32:00] hurdles to the industry with NDT projects is people just don’t.
Know what’s available, what’s out there, what they can see, what they, you know, the issues that they might be able to uncover, like you said, Yolanda. So, um, we encourage, um, anybody that says, Hey, do you know anybody in NDT? Yeah, it’s Jeremy Hanks and the C-I-C-N-D-T team. Call ’em up. They’ve got the solutions, they’ll help you out.
Allen Hall: That wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Just reach out to us on LinkedIn and don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you found value in today’s conversation, please leave us a review.
It really helps other wind energy professionals discover the show and we’ll catch you next week on the Uptime Wind Energy [00:33:00] Podcast.
Renewable Energy
Letting the Market Decide
Almost all respondents on social media were enthusiastic about banning the garb at left.
Two points:
1) I’m thrilled to live in a country that protects its people’s freedom of expression. As an older American, I’m not crazy about massive tattoos, face-piercings, and young guys walking around with their pants worn down around their knees, but I’m a real fan of the United States Constitution.
The author of the meme might want to take a peek. It’s a good read.
2) What actually works on a societal basis, and what no one can regulate, is public acceptance or rejection. You’re free to wear extreme forms of the hijab, or claim that the Holocaust was a hoax, or believe that the Earth is flat, or tell your neighbors that the 2020 presidential election was rigged, that you, with no training in science, think climate change is a hoax, or that vaccines are often lethal.
However, you’ll pay a stiff price in terms of acceptance into refined society. Want to get a high-level job or join a country club dressed like that? Do you think that spouting off the gibberish of uneducated MAGA slobs in the workplace will advance your career?
Good luck.
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