What’s the Future of Offshore Wind in the US?
This week we go on a deep dive on offshore wind in the US–what’s the status of projects that have been approved? Why do approvals for new sites seem to be slowing down? Is there enough manufacturing capacity to meet the transition goals? What can be done to boost wind energy growth?
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Allen Hall: All right, Joel, it’s baseball season, and it’s actually playoff baseball season. Did you have a bunch of money on the Brewers already?
Joel Saxum: I don’t bet on my own teams, but I love them. And my heart got ripped out of my chest last night watching that damn game. Because it was, if you didn’t follow, it was 0 0 going into the seventh.
We hit two back to back home runs, and the Brewers, everybody in Wisconsin was riding high, and then we had four runs rung up on us in the ninth. So there goes our playoff run. And I was looking forward to being able to josh back and forth with our weather guard, lightning tech COO about her Philly fanatic fandom.
But we won’t get to see them in the playoffs.
Allen Hall: Well, it is fall in America, and that’s when the baseball playoffs start and college football kicks off. So everything, food wise, changes. The pumpkin spice is out, Joel. Not a fan. God, please. No one’s a fan of pumpkin spice? Pumpkin spice French toast, I’m a fan of, but that’s the only thing.
That’s not bad. What about squash and cranberries? I mean, you gotta like one of those.
Philip Totaro: Cranberry, I’ll take cranberries.
Joel Saxum: Cranberries up from northern Wisconsin, right? I grew up next to a cranberry bog.
Allen Hall: Alright, this is something everybody can agree upon. Maple syrup. Two cheers for maple syrup. Sure, why not.
Joel Saxum: You’re from northern New York, Phil! They do maples. There’s that syrup country. Sure. But I’m also not 12 years old eating a stack of pancakes anymore.
Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host, Alan Hall, and I’ll be joined by my Uptime co host. After these news headlines, in a bold move, Spain’s Acciona Energy has unveiled plans for a massive 3 gigawatt wind farm in Western Australia. The project, named Bellwether, aims to install 400 turbines, each with a capacity of 6.
2 megawatts. Once operational, it could become the largest onshore wind farm outside of China, significantly boosting Australia’s renewable energy capacity. Shifting to technology advancements, Weidmüller USA has introduced BoltControl, an innovative monitoring system for wind turbine blades. This system detects broken bolts in the blade root, potentially preventing costly damage and reducing downtime.
The technology promises to enhance safety and efficiency in wind farm operations. In South Korea, Unison has achieved a milestone by developing the country’s largest offshore wind turbine. The 10 megawatt direct drive turbine represents a significant leap in Korea’s wind energy capabilities. For Unison plans to begin performance tests in October of this year, with commercialization expected by early 2026.
GE Vernova has secured five new agreements in Spain, further solidifying its presence in the European wind market. The company will supply a total of 16 turbines for wind farms in Castilla, León, each with a capacity of 6. 1 megawatts. Additionally, GE Vernova will repower a wind farm in Catalonia and supply turbines for a new project in Andalusia.
Lastly, the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management has postponed the Oregon Offshore Wind Energy Auction. Due to insufficient bidder interest, this delay highlights the challenges facing offshore wind development in certain regions. BOEM plans to continue collaborating with stakeholders to support ongoing engagement processes and develop a strategic roadmap for offshore wind in Oregon.
That’s this week’s top news stories. After the break, I’ll be joined by my co host, CEO and founder of IntelStore, Phil Totaro, And the Chief Commercial Officer of Weather Guard, Joel Sexson. Dealing with damaged blades? Don’t let slower pairs keep your turbines down. Blade platforms get you back up and running fast.
Blade Platform’s truck mounted platforms reach up to 100 meters, allowing for a quick setup, improved safety, and efficient repairs. Book soon to secure your spot and experience a difference in blade access, speed, and efficiency. Visit BladePlatforms. com and get started today. Well, as offshore wind is really slowing down on the West Coast, particularly in Oregon, there’s been a number of changes on the East Coast around New York.
Massachusetts Rhode Island where the ownership is changing hands pretty rapidly. And some projects have been kicked down the road a little bit to allow the developers to get everything in, in, in place before. They start pounding monopiles in the ocean bottom. But there, Phil, there’s been a number of more financial transactions than there has been putting monopiles in.
A lot of financial companies have entered into the marketplace. A lot of power companies, state owned power companies for essentially are pulling out of offshore wind. That has changed the dynamic quite a bit. And you’re getting more outside players, non U. S. players into the U. S. offshore market.
What is the, sort of, the current status of that? And Joel, sort of, what does that look like in terms of growth? Is it really going to stagnate? Or what do you see out in the In the ocean there from all the ship activity.
Joel Saxum: Well, I know like, Alan, you and I we kind of regularly watch that marine traffic.
com. I, and I every couple of weeks I’m flipping up looking at like the TGS or foresee offshore maps and just kind of peeking around what’s happening. But we know right now, of course, Block Island, steel in the water. She’s been there for a while. That one’s always going to be there and running.
But as far as all these other wind farms we’ve been talking about for the last few years, active steel in the water, we have Vineyard Wind, which is Avangrid, right? And we also have South Fork, which is Orsted. And these are off the coast of Massachusetts. Rhode Island here, but South Fork is small, right?
Like Block Island, it’s like five turbines. South Fork, I think there’s a dozen turbines there in the water. Vineyard Wind, of course, a little bit bigger, but they had, the blade issues. So they slowed down and they paused on that one. And outside of those wind farms, as far as I know, the only other one that has steel in the water is the CVOW, the Coastal Virginia Offshore Wind.
Down off the coast of Virginia. So Phil, am I right or wrong there? Those are the only ones with steel in the water.
Philip Totaro: Yeah. The, so there’s some kind of early stage development activity still happening for a lot of the stuff that’s obviously not gone through tendering yet, the stuff that has gone through Boehm.
Consent is not quite as much as, everyone has hoped and to go back to the beginning of this Alan mentioned that, Oregon’s not really moving forward which is unfortunate, but it’s just reflective of the times. So we’re, whereas we were going through. A phase where we were having a lot of auctions.
Now, BOEM is kind of slowing down the process of having these auctions and trying to take the projects that are, quote unquote shovel ready and getting them, approved as much as they can. That said, there, there is still kind of a need and an opportunity for offshore wind and his interest rates will hopefully continue to come down.
It opens the door for a more profitable project where, if you remember back, what, three years ago, even, we had projects with PPAs that were being executed for like 77, hour. That’s relatively competitive with, some of the legacy onshore wind or solar projects in some of these same states where we would be doing the offshore wind offtake.
So. Offshore wind will make some sense moving forward. It’s really not going quite as quick as we would like, of course. But it looks like BOEM has at this point shifted their approach from doing more auctions to doing more consents and approvals of projects that have already been tendered.
Presumably to get the ball rolling on BOEM. Once this project’s been approved by everybody, including the government, makes it a lot harder to be undone by any kind of future regime change in, the presidency and whoever’s in control of Boehm.
Joel Saxum: So, Phil, one of the things that we talked about this slow down, not going as fast as we wanted to these things.
One of the positive things that I’m actually hearing from, my connections within the WIM network is that it’s allowing the ISPs a little bit of time to catch up. So we’re allow, we’re being able to get more people trained. There’s been some, some shifting, some gears and people working offshore and some things going on.
We’ve launched our first SOV, our first Jones Act compliant SOV. There’s another, I think there’s another two of those being built right now in different places around the country, but it’s giving, we went really hard and fast at it and there was all these kinds of issues and now we’re backing off, slowing down a little bit.
And like the pendulum has kind of swung the other way. It seems like the from a supply chain standpoint, and maybe not a supply chain as far as hardware, but a supply chain as far as services and those kinds of things. As a unit, the offshore wind industry in the United States is supported by the onshore wind industry in the United States because that’s what’s happening.
Is being able to catch up a little bit.
Allen Hall: Alan, are you hear that same thing? Oh, I think there’s been a lot of effort focused on offshore on the O& M side. There’s more people gathering steam and getting expertise from overseas to spool up their offerings. That was a smart move. I think the bigger picture going back into Phil’s discussion of, hey, what’s going to be developed over the next couple of years, not much, and the reason is because the factories do not exist to ramp it up.
If you take a look at Siemens Gamesa was supposed to build a blade factory in Virginia. They decided not to do that. GE is closing down half a line in France. The, that means they got one line in France and one light up in gas bay to build offshore blades with Siemens is going to rely on Hull in England to do the 108 meter blades.
Vestas is kind of in a similar situation that in order to start putting a lot of turbines out on the East coast of the United States, you would have to. add at least five, six, seven factories, blade factories or blade lines, so to speak to fulfill these orders. So even though there may be some demand in the U.
S. with the high interest rates, you’re still stuck because you can’t get the blades, you can’t get them you may be able to get towers, but that’s it. Which I think is what’s going to happen is they’re going to end up driving monopiles in some of these and waiting, which could be more than 12 months, maybe closer to 36 months before you start seeing some turbine deliveries is they’re just not increasing capacity.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. And at the end of the day the steel isn’t the hard component, right? Like can ramp up, you can ramp up factories all over the place to create the steel components. We need transition pieces, monopiles, these kinds of things. They’re specialized, but they’re not that specialized. Not like 108 meter blade or these nacelles or the other thing that need to be built.
So yeah, there’s definitely I could see that Alan. I said, that’s a concept I didn’t really have thought of is. Putting steel in the water and then just waiting until the turbines come. Yeah.
Philip Totaro: Well, but the reality with that is that it’s unlikely to happen because they don’t want to, there are still reliability issues with doing that.
If you’re waiting on parts, they’re just gonna delay the project. The problem,
Allen Hall: Phil, is gonna be driving the monopiles and having the ships to drive the monopiles, right? They have a schedule set, to do that part of it. I think that may happen because of the schedule
Philip Totaro: with the ships. Well, yes and no, but that’s kind of my point, is we, there are so few projects that have even been consented in the U.
S. right now that, that are ready to be built, that don’t already have a vessel assigned. And at the end of the day, these new power offtake agreements that have been signed with different states like New York or New Jersey or whomever, they don’t have, they just have, a price tag without necessarily a definitive, install by date if you will.
So we, we have a situation where the developers and independent power producers have an opportunity to kind of. Stretch things out, stretch your schedule out to be able to accommodate when the vessels are going to be available and the turbine components are going to be available. But this goes, the reason that we don’t have all those factories goes back to the pace of.
the approvals and the pace of the build out to begin with. We got caught in a scenario where everybody wanted to do factories in the U. S. GE wanted to have factories, Vestas wanted to do one in Jersey, Joel just talked about some of the other ones in Virginia and elsewhere. At the end of the day, most of them didn’t get built because we just got caught in this scenario of, escalating interest rates, and which triggered all those, power purchase contract renegotiations, which, delayed things because with PPAs going up, CapEx has to go up, it’s more money that the developer has to go ask for, and the bank is saying, well, We’re not giving you any more, we, this is the situation.
We got to spread our risk out and diversify our investments as well. We’re only prepared to give you, this much. And if you’re trying to get your project to a financial close to FID, you can’t do that if the bank is only giving you a 60 percent of the capital you’re going to need to be able to build a project.
So. The industry’s having to do more with less, but this also addresses your earlier point, which is if we’re not going to be in a position to spend the CapEx now, it’s easier to get ramped up on all those soft costs around the OpEx and the services and everything else, because it’s cheaper to do. And we have the time and bandwidth to be able to do it.
So we might as well take advantage of that.
Allen Hall: I want to take a quick break here, but after the break, I want to talk about the investors and how they have driven. This marketplace. We’re now the OEMs. Some of them don’t want to participate anymore. As wind energy professionals, staying informed is crucial, and let’s face it, difficult.
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Visit PESWind. com today. Also The aspect of the investment banks and all the financiers that have been involved in offshore wind have driven the marketplace in a very unique way. At first it was, we wanted to put the biggest turbines we can out in the water, reduce the number of monopiles, reduce the amount of cables.
So on your spreadsheet, setting up in an office, probably in Toronto or somewhere, that they’ve looked at it and said, hey, I can get more power out of a larger turbine, obviously, I can reduce my cost, my profitability goes up, everything seems hunky dory on that spreadsheet. The problem has been, though, is that when Vestas went after these turbines and started, pushing 12 to 15, and it sounds like Siemens is going to develop a 20 megawatt turbine for sure, but GE and Vestas are going to hang around 15 megawatt, that they ran into development problems.
That it wasn’t as easy as just building it. It wasn’t, it was more of an engineering task than they thought it was going to be in a manufacturing test for that matter. So now the investment decisions that were made a year or two, three years ago now are really wreaking havoc. The GEs of the world don’t see profit on offshore wind on a major scale.
Why would I build a factory? Why would I build that factory to build a factory? I think Joel, I think the number of investors was about a half a billion dollars to build a blade factory, something in that realm. So if you have to build five, six, seven of these things, you’re talking about three, four, five, probably five in this marketplace, 5 billion to build up blade factories, that’s just for the blades, goodness sakes.
Why would you do that? There’s no ROI on that. So if the investment banks want to go off and make ROI on the projects, You have to look at it from the OAN’s perspective, they need an ROI also, and that has been stripped, completely stripped from them.
Philip Totaro: There’s two things at play there though, one is Vessels aren’t gonna be capable, not for a while, of installing anything that’s, 18 to 20 like the Siemens Gamesa looks like they’re gonna do.
It’s, so, the reality there is the supply chain, notwithstanding, you also have vessels that are the bigger holdup in being able to do that. Because it’s not just the construction of the project site. If you have a problem with one of those turbines, and we’ve been talking on various, iterations of the Uptime Wind Energy podcast about, replaceable technology and whatnot.
But at the end of the day, if you have to have service performed on a 20 megawatt offshore wind turbine or bigger. There are only going to be a handful of vessels that are going to be capable of doing it, and if they’re already booked for installations elsewhere in the world, what are you going to do to repair a turbine?
Now, instead of having, a project site where you’ve got one turbine goes down, and it’s maybe, three to five percent of your entire project site’s power output, if you have fewer turbines and a 20 megawatt turbine goes down, that could be 10 percent of your or, something substantial in terms of your site’s power output.
So the bottom line is that’s where the financial forecasters, a spreadsheet breaks down, but it also, it just one other thing. It also comes back to, the, there’s not actually that much different, and this is why, cause this is kind of related to what leading light has or what happened with leading light.
Why they’re delaying the project is. They said that they can’t get the size turbine they want from GE, which was an 18 megawatt. GE is only going to give them a 15 and a half. Now, I don’t really see much of a difference between the two other than obviously some power ratings, some rotor size, etc.
But it’s not like it’s actually going to be that much LCOE difference between a 15 and a half megawatt turbine and an 18 megawatt turbine. Okay, so I don’t understand why that’s a problem.
Allen Hall: No, but on the Excel spreadsheet, if you start looking at the third digit there, Pass the decimal, it’s bigger.
And that’s what’s happening. It gets down to that sort of a couple half a percentage point, a quarter of a percentage point.
Philip Totaro: It is, but they also said, okay, that we can’t use a Vestas turbine at the site. Okay, fine, that’s a technical issue. Has less to do with, I mean, I still think they probably could have made a Vestas turbine work at the site, but so I think that’s maybe a bit of salesmanship there.
But then they also suggested that we can’t really source from Siemens because Siemens turbines are just going to be too expensive. And that’s. Just the new reality we’re in. The reality is that the OEMs are not going to lose money. Not anymore. They were prepared to do that before,
Joel Saxum: but they’re not going to do it anymore.
Nope. That day is over. The one thing I’m looking at is this, is like, there’s a really simple number that we need to look at. Right now, we’ve only got a hundred turbines in the water. And in the next year, maybe a hundred more. In the next two, three years, maybe two hundred. So, like, there’s no, there’s absolutely no demand or reason to build new blade factories or build a nacelle factory.
Like, if you’re going to build one, build it somewhere where they’re going to throw a lot of stuff in the water and, like, and just use it
Philip Totaro: to support as a global thing. Joel, why aren’t we buying turbines from China, then? Because they seem to have plenty of factories over there.
Allen Hall: I’ll tell you why we’re not.
We’re not because the DOE and the administration said it was going to create good paying American jobs. Thanks. And those good paying American jobs were going to be in blade factories and the cell factories and the assemblies and the ports, and that can’t happen now, but you can feel it though, right?
You can feel that tension building on what is going on in offshore wind. Why is it taking so long? And I have to throw in, and I was at the AMI wind turbine blade conference this past week. Which was tremendous, by the way, I had a really good time and man, did I meet a lot of new people and a lot of people that I knew from all over the world.
But the consensus on offshore is that it is going to go much slower than was ever envisioned and that the OEMs are not going to start building things on wishes and dreams. That is completely done that and even getting to your point about ships, Joel, the ships are coming in at, way over budget.
And the delays in the schedules have been really pronounced. That’s not going to help anything. So, in the meantime, which is what I was concerned with coming out of EMI is, alright, what is going to happen by 2030? Where is all this electricity going to come from? Evidently, Microsoft is going to restart one of the nuclear facilities in New York just for servers and AI, but is there going to be a push, a more broader push, because offshore can’t develop fast enough to get other renewables online, if that hydro, solar, Onshore wind, where is this going and how
Philip Totaro: fast?
Keep in mind too, that for all the stuff that’s in the interconnection queue right now, all those developers have paid money to be in that queue, and are gonna pay even more money to get out of the queue and get their thing approved, and get the project built. So, it’s not like the government doesn’t have the financial resources to be able to go and staff up and get the appropriate people in place to start speeding up the interconnection queue issue that we’ve got, but that’s only one part of it.
Transmission build out and demand are still going to end up driving the majority of this if demand keeps going up, particularly driven by these data centers and AI use and that sort of thing. Then that’s going to necessitate speeding up the permitting process. That’s going to, coincide with lowering interest rates, which would hopefully unlock some floodgates as far as capital is concerned, and should get more projects going.
But, Again you’re going to have to invest in the infrastructure necessary, which is really
Joel Saxum: transmission. Alan, you said it right. Like the consensus here is that there’s a lot of great wind resources. We need to connect things to the grid, but none of that is near the load centers that need the renewable energy.
That’s why three mile Island got just signed up by Microsoft to start back up because. It’s a load center that’s near, like, we have New York, you have that whole east coast. That’s why we’re going with offshore wind over there, because there’s no real estate to build renewables or, other kind of There’s a great onshore wind resource.
I mean, there’s some in upstate New York and you can, and that’s being moved on transmission to New York city and stuff. But like at the end of the day, like the only option you got here is what we’ve talked about before. It’s like HVDC somewhere else to get
Philip Totaro: power. And look the 1. 5 billion for some additional transmission, including the Southern Spirit transmission Linking, for the first time ever, ERCOT to any other part of the United States.
So they’re not going to be fully islanded anymore down in Texas, Joel.
Allen Hall: If they’re going to, if they’re going to be investing money into renewable energy and they really want to get offshore wind going, they’re going to have to build GE a factory. New York or the feds are going to have to put down a billion dollars in some sort of factory in New York.
Or New Jersey, somewhere up in there to speed this on if you could say, Hey, GE, here’s the facility. Here’s all the infrastructure. You need to put a blade mold in there and some people let’s go. I’m going to or I’m going to low cost you on the loan to go do this and give you a low interest loan.
0 percent loan. You’re going to pay it back over 20 years and deferred taxes or whatever they wanted to do to it. You’re going to have to sweeten that pot to get a GE or a Siemens to start producing blades in quantity.
Philip Totaro: All right, let me break it down like this, because we’ve been, one of the hot topics coming out of the Wind Energy Hamburg last week was, China’s incursion into the European market.
And at the end of the day, we started doing some research ourselves on, China, since they’ve started doing the Belt and Road, I don’t remember off the top of my head, like, how much they’ve spent, but just in the past 21 months China spent over 100 billion, the equivalent of 100 billion Euro in pursuing energy related projects through their Belt and Road initiative, which is investments in foreign markets, okay?
The European Investment Bank and the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development have collectively spent about 18 billion euros in that same time frame. I don’t have numbers yet for how much we’ve spent in terms of foreign direct investment. That’s one equation and one part of it. But even domestically, how are we keeping up with China when their government has dedicated that much money to ensuring that their OEMs are successful?
You’re absolutely right if the government in the U. S. doesn’t step in and help to build a factory for G. E. Because right now, G. E. would build a factory, but they can’t do it because they don’t have order book. The reason they don’t have order book is because of all these other things we just talked about.
But at the end of the day, some, somebody, something’s gotta give, and if you’re committed to supporting domestic production and building a domestic industry, then you gotta get your wallet out and start spending some taxpayer money on, re prioritizing it from whatever else you’re spending it on to this, alright?
You want an offshore wind industry, you gotta build it, you gotta invest in it.
Allen Hall: Bill, the IRA bill was 670 billion dollars, right? Right. We couldn’t have built a factory inside of that 600 plus billion.
Philip Totaro: Or two, or three, or four? Sounds like we could have built a few of them, y’know? If they’re half a billion each for, y’know, a blade factory and a cell factory, I mean, y’know, yeah.
We probably could have included some of that cost, or at least done some kind of tax deferment on some of that, considering the circumstances where we all know that we’re in a high, y’know, interest rate environment still. So let’s do something to either, let’s lower those interest rates a little faster, or let’s, do something else that’s gonna spur in interest and investment.
Because with oil and gas companies pulling capital out, Everybody else is going to start pulling capital out of renewables and we’re not going to have, we’re going to be, we’re supposed to be, top in the world on onshore wind, offshore wind, everything else we are going to be.
You know the laughing stock of the industry where you know europe and asia continue to outpace us
Allen Hall: it’s there’s a good racing analogy to this which I like to use in this case if they lowered interest rates back down to something normal the problem is you’re in 20th position. And the lead car is a half mile in front of you, maybe more.
And now you’re going exactly the same speed. You can’t catch up. You have to pour a little more gas into that fire to get back up to where you want to be. Right? So that delay doesn’t go away. Now you have to really pour money into it. To catch up,
Philip Totaro: right? And they’ve made it, they’ve created a situation where you’re right.
It is even more expensive, although you also don’t want to lower interest rates too much, too fast, because that creates other economic issues. But the point is that we’ve, even the jobs report we saw this week where unemployment’s dropped to 4. 1 percent in the U S you’ve got us, you’ve got an economic scenario where, you know, everybody, including the Fed now kind of agrees that the market can probably handle.
More rate easing, and we’re going to get into a scenario where you’re going to be able to create more of a favorable environment. But that’s just, as Alan just pointed out, that’s just getting us back up to the speed that we were going before. How do we catch up to where we’re supposed to be? We’ve talked on the show about how the government put, a 15 gigawatt by 2030 plan in place, and then they had to revise it because it was clear that we were never going to achieve that much in installation and operating facilities.
So now it’s 15 gigawatts permitted by 2030, which probably isn’t even going to happen now at this point either with the pace they’re going. Especially if Boehm’s gonna reining in the auctions because there’s such limited interest. I mean, this is exactly what happened in the Gulf of Mexico with Texas in particular.
Even the Louisiana sites that they did auction when they had that auction about a, a little over a year ago Pitton’s was paid, by the companies who got those lease sites. Nobody wants to even do an auction in Oregon at the moment, particularly with, the tribes and other people there locally piling on and saying, we’re going to oppose this, which, look, at the end of the day, even the opposition that we’ve got in Massachusetts, New Jersey, None of these people that’s opposing offshore wind legally is actually going to stop that process from happening, the development process on a project site from happening, unless they hit them when they’re, they kick them when they’re down.
Basically, they hit them at a point where interest rates are slowing down the project development process to the point where it causes the government to have a bit of a rethink on, well, can we really sustain this? And if they’re gonna start pulling the plug on the mechanisms that create a market environment where everybody’s free to invest, then all these crackpots are gonna come out of the woodwork and try and file a lawsuit to try and pile on the offshore wind developers, trying to get them to divert money and resources away from project development to legal fees.
So, none of this is helping us go fast and catch back up to where we need to be. And get us back into a position where we are market leading in offshore wind.
Joel Saxum: Okay, the wind farm of the week this week is the seven cowboy wind farm built by nl in oklahoma It’s out west of oklahoma city about an hour and a half It has 107 ge 2x machines the 2.
82 with 127 meter rotors it’s located in Washita and Kiowa Counties. That 107 turbines will generate approximately 1. 3 terawatt hours of energy annually. And it will, that’s enough energy to power 120, 000 households, which in western Oklahoma is a lot. So that energy though, and this is an interesting thing, is being sold from this wind farm on some PPA or virtual PPAs.
The companies lined up for them are Campbell Soup Company, which is kind of a neat one. Thermo Fisher Scientific is another one of the PPAs. They’re taking 90 megawatts of a virtual PPA. And then the other interesting one is a Japanese pharmaceutical company called Katayama. Takeda and they’re taking 79 megawatts of electricity off this wind farm.
Now the thing Enel is doing with this one that I really like is they have built a training facility in Oklahoma city to bolster the wind technician shortage that we’re seeing. And this is a thing that’s near and dear to us here at the Uptime podcast. We’ve started the build turbines. com website as a resource for technicians looking to get in or companies looking to recruit technicians, but Enel is also doing the same thing by having their own training facility up there in Oklahoma city.
So, these 300 construction jobs created by the seven cowboy wind farm during construction, 55 million in local tax revenue, and 41 million in landowner payments over the life of the wind farm are a great thing for Oklahoma. So seven cowboy wind farm from NL out there in Western Oklahoma, you are our wind farm of the week.
Allen Hall: That’s going to do it for this week’s Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. Thanks for listening. Please give us a five star rating on your podcast platform and subscribe in the show notes below to Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter. Transcribed And check out Rosie’s YouTube channel, Engineering with Rosie, and we’ll see you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast.
https://weatherguardwind.com/whats-the-future-of-offshore-wind-in-the-us/
Renewable Energy
Do Social Democracies Commit Genocide on Their People?
Re: the meme here that a reader sent me, I’m not sure this is fair.
What social democrats are proposing exactly what most of the governments of Western Europe, and many other countries around the globe offer their citizens.
I don’t read too much about genocide in Denmark. Are they killing each other with pastries?
Renewable Energy
German Wind Turbine? Let’s Do Some Math
The turbine presented here has blades that are 0.5 meters in length, and that the average home requires 1.2 KW.
When we plug this into this wind power calculator, we learn that we’ll need an average wind speed of 37 mph.
Since the average wind speed in Germany is 11 mph and power is proportionate to the cube of the wind speed, the average German will need 38 of these to power his house.
Renewable Energy
What Operators Want to Hear at WOMA 2027
Weather Guard Lightning Tech

What Operators Want to Hear at WOMA 2027
Two days of operator meetings in Melbourne shape the WOMA 2027 agenda, from performance upgrades and cable faults to foundations and bolts.
The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast is brought to you by Weather Guard Lightning Tech, creators of the StrikeTape Ultra LPS retrofit. Subscribe to Uptime’s Substack newsletter. And check out Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” Youtube channel. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!
Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy podcast. I’m your host, Allen Hall. I’m here with Matthew Stead and Rosemary Barnes. And Rosemary, where are we?
Rosemary Barnes: We’re in Melbourne, and we have been visiting future attendees and sponsors and people interested in, in the event to see what topics that we should be talking about.
What are the hot topics of the moment?
Allen Hall: Which is a very interesting two days, Matthew, in that, uh, we h- did meet with a number of operators based in Australia, but, uh, they’re also very worldly. They have talked to companies all over about operations and, and maintenance, and there are some really eye-opening topics- Mm
that will be- Mm … at WOMA 2027 this year.
Matthew Stead: Yeah. The thing that was interesting for me was [00:01:00]that actually the topics have changed each year. So, um, they’re evolving and the industry’s continuing to, to do better, and so that, that was really interesting. Performance upgrades was probably one of the big areas of, of new interest, I think.
I think we heard with the pressure on pricing, uh, the market and so forth, you know, that, that 1% or 2% now is becoming more important. Um, so I think, uh, upgrades will definitely feature quite a lot. Um, balance of plant was also a big topic. Um, you just can’t ig- ignore the, um, transmission, you can’t ignore the transformers, you can’t ignore, uh, condensers and all these sorts of things, so yeah.
Rosemary Barnes: Cables.
Matthew Stead: Cables.
Rosemary Barnes: Terminations. Terminations of cables. Specifically raised several times.
Allen Hall: Yep. Yeah. It’s all about being more efficient, uh, getting more production, and then with the PPA prices, uh, that are changing-
Matthew Stead: Mm …
Allen Hall: rapidly, uh, everybody is paying more attention to the bottom line.
Matthew Stead: Mm, mm.
Allen Hall: Absolutely. There, there’s less cash running around, uh, chasing new development.
It’s [00:02:00] more of a focus on making sure your, at least your existing assets are performing as, as well as they can be- Mm … which then opens up the, uh, Pandora’s box of opportunity. Mm. Because there are 1%’s all around a wind turbine. More specifically, uh, all the drive train issues, the blade issues, the generator issues, and even going into the substation.
Mm. I, I was really shocked on BOP e- the, the one topic that came up, uh, yesterday and today was buried cables. Mm. Like-
Matthew Stead: Faults …
Allen Hall: faults.
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Junctions. Finding- Yeah … finding faults and what to do about them. Yeah. Yeah. But I think in addition to just wanting more revenue, I think people have, are getting more sophisticated about what actually matters and then the finances.
You know, everyone’s focused so much on availability, and now people- Mm … are like, okay, yeah, like once you’re at a certain level of availability, gets harder and harder to get more. And actually, you know, not all availability is equal. Is good. It, it [00:03:00] depends. Yeah. Yeah, like you wanna, um, you wanna focus on how much you’re generating at the times when electricity prices are high specifically, which usually means during lower wind speed periods.
Yeah. Which is actually good because that matches really well with what is actually possible. It’s, it’s hard to get more power out of the turbine if it’s at, you know, its rated power, then you’re not g- More efficiency is not gonna get you any more, um, power output, whereas lower in the power curve- Mm … um, when wind speeds are lower, there’s less electricity in the grid and so prices are higher.
And so- Mm … yeah, I mean, that’s, that’s why people are really asking to know more about what efficiency upgrades are possible, better ways to operate, scheduled maintenance, um, all those sorts of things. Mm. So that will be really interesting.
Matthew Stead: Raising the bar on sophistication. Um, but also life extension
Allen Hall: Yes, a lot of discussion about life extension
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, end of life and life extension End of life Yeah, um-
Matthew Stead: Foundations, structures Which is
Allen Hall: tied to PPA.
Mm. A lot of that [00:04:00] discussion I, at least I looked at it as, uh, if I had a PPA and I can continue with that PPA with an existing turbine, I want to do that. Mm,
Matthew Stead: mm,
Allen Hall: mm. But how do I do that and how do I know that that existing turbine can last another five years? It seemed to go in five-year blocks, like can we get to another five years and then another and then, then another.
Wow.
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Once you get to 20, 20, 25 years, I think people like, uh, they, you know- It’s getting a little- Their original agreement might have been for 20, then they kind of just assume that there will be another five, and then after that they’re- Yeah … kind of reassessing cyclically and yeah, I know that people make plans for, you know, what components are replaceable, what would they have to get in, and I think that sometimes, uh, people doing those plans aren’t as familiar with the, you know, actual technical issues that are being faced.
Like, is a blade a replaceable component? It may be early on in the life it sort of is, not easily, but you know, like a 25-year-old wind turbine, you know, good luck trying to order 10 new blades because you’ve got a, you know, an issue that’s-
Allen Hall: Oh, well you, you need to read the news. Did you [00:05:00] see the news today about, uh, the, the wooden wind turbine blades as a replacement for aged blades?
That, that’s happening- … in real time, Rosa.
Rosemary Barnes: Okay. I know they- Yeah. Yep, yep. Okay. Okay. So that, that’s, that’s good. Making carbon new blade. E- even so, I don’t think that they’re- Okay. … gonna be, like, super-duper cheap, so you’re still gonna wanna be, um, doing a trade-off between y- you know, like, what kind of repairs.
You might be able to change the way you’re operating to reduce loads. Um, you might be able to monitor to make sure that your blades are safe. You know, if you know that there’s an issue, um, you just wanna get some advanced warning before blades start falling off your, your tower. Mm. You know, and then you can push it further.
Yeah. Whereas if you’ve got no information, then you have to be conservative and shut it down. Yeah. So yeah, I think there’s a whole lot that can be g- can be done there in that area.
Matthew Stead: There was a point that came up today, which I think was close to your heart, on, you know, if you’re going to be going for 1% or 2% or 0.5% AEP improvement, how do you actually measure that and how do you set up a proper experiment?
So-
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah …
Matthew Stead: I, I, I love that topic. [00:06:00]
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. No, it’s one that I, um, yeah, I deal with m- my clients I, I’m often… It’s one of the things that Pablo really loves to do, is to organize trials of that nature of new technologies and see if they work. But, um, yeah, asset managers are usually very, uh, focused on fast results.
You know, they’ve got a, a big problem and they want a solution now, so they wanna just roll out the new technology over an entire wind farm. But if you do that, then it’s almost impossible. Unless you get, like, a huge benefit, like, uh, 10% gains or, you know, like reduce your failures by 50% or more, it’s really hard to actually- Mm
pick that out if you just replace everything. Mm. Whereas if you do a really, really good, um, trial plan- Systematic. Yeah … and you match pairs very well so that you have, you know, a control for each turbine and there’s- so many variables in a wind farm. It’s not, it’s not as easy as just, like, randomly choosing 50% to do and not do.
Mm. Mm. Mm. Like, you have to, you know, put some work into the trial design, and then, you know, like, do your statistical calculations ahead of time to know how long it’s gonna take you to get s- statistical [00:07:00]significance. So then you don’t just have a gut feeling about- Yep … how something went. You’ve actually got numbers, and then you can take those numbers to, you know, other wind farms that you’ve got- Yeah
and, and know what’s going on much better.
Matthew Stead: Worst study is an inconclusive study.
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Yeah, that’s true. Definitely.
Allen Hall: Well, that comes back to the data analysis- Mm … which a lot of operators mentioned, and how much data there is and what to do with it, and it did seem like a couple of operators have chosen some AI tools, varying degrees, all the way down from Microsoft Copilot to something much more complicated.
Uh, but I think there’s, uh, getting that d- to the last 1, 2, 3%, you’re going to need those tools- Absolutely … because what do you choose? Do you choose a blade? Do you choose a gearbox? Do you choose a generator? Do you go to the substation to get that percentage point or two Without having some really powerful tools- Mm.
you may be wasting your time [00:08:00] and money.
Matthew Stead: Mm.
Allen Hall: Which is a, a, a very interesting, uh, aspect to wind energy because it’s such an industrial business that, uh, we haven’t used heavy computational tools, uh, un- until really now.
Matthew Stead: Mm.
Allen Hall: And maybe Australia’s at the forefront because of the PPA and negative pricing is that that will, uh, actually lead an industry.
Because I haven’t seen a lot of that being used globally. Mm. So this is the first time an operator- Mm … that I’ve talked to has said, “We’re using it.”
Matthew Stead: Yeah. It’s quite a different discussion, um, I think, you know, this year compared to previous years in that I think in the past it was getting to know what’s possible, but now it’s like real case studies are coming through.
And a few of the people had some really good examples that we can talk about at the conference as to how they’ve actually been helped and how they did this and what the outcome was. I think, yeah, that would be really great content on that.
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. I think it’s gonna be a good mix of people who have used third party tools and have experience with it, people that are doing it in-house and can share- Mm
some of the kinds of results- Mm … that, that you can get just from analyzing your own- Mm … [00:09:00] SCADA data. Um, people talking about how they get the data that they want. Mm. ‘Cause it’s not always so easy. You would think that, you know, you own a wind turbine, you have a right to have all of the data that comes through it, but it’s not.
Um, even if you do technically have a right, it’s, uh, it, it’s harder to actually get it than you might think. Mm. So yeah, sharing all, all those kinds of things. But I think also, like just as important as talking about the successes is talking about the, the gaps that– people still feel lots of gaps. Like, okay, we’ve got all the data, we’re collecting it.
We know that there’s so much potential here- Mm … but we don’t really- Mm … know what we can do, or it’s hard for us to, you know- Mm … make headway in this particular pain point. And that is really useful for companies that are developing tools to know what are the, the problems. Mm. Because then they can e- you know, they’re well placed to fix them.
Allen Hall: Mm. Which leads to the discussion we had with the operators and, uh, some of the suppliers for WOMA 2027. There’s a lot of interest. And as we’re sitting in the conference rooms, I’m thinking, we may not have enough room to [00:10:00] seat everybody. Uh, the WOMA 2027 website is up and running, and you can register now.
So just go to woma2027.com and get started there. At the same point, we’ve had a lot of contact with, uh, pretty much everybody that wants to sponsor the event, and there’s only a limited number of ways to sponsor. So if you’re interested in doing that, you, you need to go to woma2027.com and look at those, uh, part- particular packages and see what- Mm
fits your, your business. Uh- Going back to some of the, the comments we were just discussing downstairs about what we heard at 2026, like, which is only a couple of months ago, right? It’s back in February this year. Uh, there’s, they’re still discussing what happened at WOMA 2026- Mm. Which was very fascinating- Mm
because I think Rosemary, you and I have been to conferences that I have not thought an iota … about what happened at those conferences. Just nothing interesting does occur. There’s no new, new information, there’s [00:11:00] no new science, there’s no new operator approaches.
Rosemary Barnes: Mm.
Allen Hall: But we’re gonna see a number of those- Yeah.
Mm … come next March.
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Well, I think it’s partly because I don’t know what other conference organizers do, but, you know, we’ve had a exhausting few days here. You’ve come all the way from America, obviously, and, and Claire as well, also come over, our producer. Um, so, y- you know, like, we’re working really hard to make sure that the topics…
Like, it’s not an accident that the topics are ones that people are talking about later, because we come here to make sure that we get the right topics. And it’s not just these meetings as well. People get in touch, and- Mm … anybody watching, listening, who has, you know, something that they wanna talk about, then definitely, you know, send us a message, and yeah, we’re working on the agenda.
We’ll, we’ll have a draft agenda in the next couple of weeks based on what we’ve learned here, but then we’ve got the hard job of it’s not just that you have a really interesting topic, you need to have a really great speaker- Yeah … or several really great speakers, usually covering several different aspects of the problem.
You know, maybe it’s, uh, yeah, an asset [00:12:00] owner, an OEM, and some, some technology provider, you know, all together giving different, um, yeah, perspectives. That’s, I think, what makes a really great session. Mm. So yeah, we need the ideas for the sessions, and we also need the ideas for great speakers.
Matthew Stead: Yeah.
Rosemary Barnes: Right.
Matthew Stead: Yeah. I think we’ve, we’ve already matched a few of those dots, so- Yeah … I, we’ve heard people asking for certain topics they wanna hear about, and then we’ve heard other operators saying, “Well, this is what we could talk about.” So I think we’ve already-
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, yeah … got some great
Matthew Stead: progress.
Rosemary Barnes: It was, it was interesting ’cause we, we built up a list of, you know-
Matthew Stead: Yeah
Rosemary Barnes: frequently raised topics, and then you’d say it to the next person that you went to- Mm … and they’re like, “Oh, that’s not a problem for us because we’ve done X, Y, Z.” And you’re like, “Okay. Well, excellent. You can, you can present the solutions that we know that other people- Yeah. Yes … are, are looking for.” Yeah.
So it has been… Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s definitely worthwhile coming, as, as tiring as it is. Yeah. Um, definitely worthwhile, and we’ll get a much better agenda for the- Yeah … for the effort.
Matthew Stead: And I think, I mean, it has been tiring. Um, but what, what made it for me was one of the operators said that [00:13:00] this is the only conference they will go to So I think, I think we’re doing the right thing.
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Yeah. I, I think so. I understand too, like, you know, all of us, we kind of are forced to go to events because that’s where our, our clients and customers are, and so you need to see them. And yeah, like I’ve even gone to the extent of some events where I don’t particularly like the event, but I know everyone’s going.
Mm. I just go and sit near the event for a couple of days and meet people at a cafe. So yeah, like we can’t get away from it. But if you’re an asset manager or, um, yeah, somebody in that kind of type of work, like you’ve got better things to do than listen to sales pitches aggressively thrown at you that aren’t relevant- Yeah
to what you’re doing. So, um, yeah. Like I, I definitely love to hear that kind of feedback- Yeah … and wanna make sure that we get it every, every year. Like that’s- It’s, it’s
Matthew Stead: encouraging.
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah … yeah, that’s, that’s the point of the conference, so.
Matthew Stead: Yeah.
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah.
Matthew Stead: The other big topic was we would really love more OEM involvement.
Um-
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Everybody wants more- … a lot of the operators- … OEM involvement- Yeah … all of the asset owners.
Matthew Stead: Yeah.
Rosemary Barnes: Like we want to [00:14:00] hear from OEMs more, have them there. Um, so yeah, we’re, we’ll be trying to To get those sorted
Allen Hall: Well, WOMA is a global conference, although it’s Australia-based and there’s a, a number of Australian operators.
There are Danish, Americans, uh, plenty of Europeans. Uh, we’re gonna see some from Southeast Asia, I think, this year. Mm-hmm. And, and Japan hopefully will come. Uh, because it’s a, it’s a global conference, there’s global knowledge- Mm … and wind is such a big industry. You may not have the solution in the United States, it may be sitting in Australia, and we need to exchange those ideas.
Mm. And that, that’s the point. So w- we are continuing to look for those world experts as we have received all the inputs of these are all the topics we wanna go hear about. Great. Now it’s on us three to go find some of those world experts and, and try to get them to Melbourne. Yeah. And I, I think that’s a great opportunity.
So if we do call you and ask you to participate in WOMA [00:15:00] 2027, please take it seriously because- Mm … you will be bombarded with great questions- Mm … and contacts and information. Uh, it’s an event you won’t wanna miss. Yeah. And- But I would- … there’s opportunity there.
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. I’d say we’re, we’re prioritizing OEMs, um, to, to get more participation, ideally to speak, but at least to be there.
And we have heard from multiple asset owners in Australia that they want, they, they want to know what are some of the upgrades that they can do- Yeah … that you’re offering. They wanna know what’s coming next in terms of technology. They wanna know what are some of the non-Western options. So, you know, like it would be great to get some Chinese wind turbine, um, manufacturers as well.
Like, they want all this information. They don’t want a slick sales brochure pitch that doesn’t give them any technical information. So we’re hopeful that we’ll be able to get, you know, some technical people to speak on, yeah, what are the upgrades you offer and how does it work- Mm-hmm … and show us a case study that demonstrates the improvements.
Um, ’cause that [00:16:00] sometimes is really hard to get out of- Mm … out of OEMs. You know, that, “We’ve got this thing, it’s so amazing, you should get it.” Okay, well, what’s the business case for it? “Oh, well, we don’t have any numbers. Just trust us.”
Matthew Stead: Yeah.
Rosemary Barnes: Um, it’s so common to get a pitch like that. So yeah, any, any OEM that has any- anything like that, either for the next generation of wind turbines or for upgrading the current fleet, yeah, if you’re willing to bring the data, then people, they are desperate to hear this information.
Allen Hall: Mm.
Matthew Stead: Yeah. That came up so many times.
Rosemary Barnes: Mm.
Allen Hall: So what were the other, uh, topics that we’re… I’m just not thinking off the top of my head. I know foundations came up quite a bit- Foundations, yeah … which was an odd one, I think, because we haven’t seen that a lot in Australia. Yeah. But this year, foundations, foundations, foundations.
Basically, the health of foundations. Yeah.
Matthew Stead: Yeah. I think really there was a lifting of the maturity. Um, I think the topics were sort of showing that, you know, Maslow’s hierarchy and moving into the more of optimization rather than making do, and I think life extension around the foundations was a, a really good example of that.
Allen Hall: And bolts.
Matthew Stead: Bolts? Yeah, bolts.
Allen Hall: [00:17:00] Everybody said bolts. Bolts.
Matthew Stead: Bolts.
Allen Hall: You think the world’s simplest device, we’ve been making bolts for nearly 1,000 years or at least a couple hundred. But it does- And, you know- … come up quite often … cable, cable
Matthew Stead: terminations, again, some really
Rosemary Barnes: basic- Yeah, that, really specific ones that were raised multiple times.
Yeah. Um, yeah, which, which is great- Yeah … ’cause it gives us a good direction to go. But I do love how it changes so much every year- Yeah … ’cause it makes me feel like, okay, yeah, like we’re actually, you know, it’s worthwhile, um, putting on another event. Mm. Um, not just recording one event and then just, you know, like replaying that every year or something.
Re-educating.
Allen Hall: Yeah. Well, I, I think there’s a learning exercise that has happened over the past two years where people now are knowledgeable about those things we talked about- Mm … two years ago. Uh, was it, was it even two years ago? It was a year and a half ago when we first started this, so we’re, we’re not that deep into it.
Although our third conference will be next March, uh, you just see more energy, more industry knowledge in some of the references that I heard, uh, in terms of other companies and the approaches they’re taking clearly came from WOMA.
Matthew Stead: Yeah.
Rosemary Barnes: Mm.
Matthew Stead: Yeah,
Allen Hall: yeah. Which is, which is [00:18:00] fascinating. Yeah. That’s
Rosemary Barnes: good. I mean, we want- It, it is
Allen Hall: sticking
Rosemary Barnes: we want tech conferences to get better, right? That was the- No … the reason why we, uh, we started this conference was ’cause we didn’t think that it was sufficient, what we had available. So, you know, it’s not a bad thing if other conferences, um, get better. Yeah. Yeah. We should also mention that blades were, were raised a fair bit.
We talked so much about blades in the previous years, and we will be talking about blades a lot again, including we’ve got a master class on the Friday. Uh, it’s… Yeah, we’ll go back to some of the basics about how the composite materials work and how a blade is designed and certified and manufactured, and, um- Lightning.
Y- yeah, yeah, a little, a little bit about lightning. Um, I don’t wanna cover it too much because we did the master class on lightning- Right … last year. Mm. Um, yeah. And yeah, some of the common damage methods anyway. And of course- Mm … yeah, lightning is probably the most- … common, or I guess leading edge erosion is the most, and then lightning would be the most expensive.
Um, yeah, so we’ll be, we’ll be covering all that and just try and raise the knowledge level a little bit, um, for [00:19:00] everybody to… It’s a very complicated kind of, uh, yeah, component.
Matthew Stead: Yeah.
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah.
Matthew Stead: And workshops. So each year we’ve run sort of workshops or roundtables or whatever, so we’re still thinking about the format for them, but, um, thinking about how we’ll reintroduce them again this year.
You know, specific topics, specific questions, specific answers.
Rosemary Barnes: Mm.
Allen Hall: And the three of us will be in Hamburg in a couple of weeks at Wind Energy Hamburg, so if you see us and you’re interested in coming to Australia, that’s the place to grab us and- Yep … and shake us and say, “I wanna go to Australia. How do I do it?”
Rosemary Barnes: Mm.
Allen Hall: Uh, yeah. Yeah.
Rosemary Barnes: Especially if you’ve got a, a t- technology that addresses some of those specific issues that we’ve mentioned- Mm … then, um, yeah, just know ahead of time that Australia needs, needs more information and more, um, solutions available to them. So, yeah. And
Matthew Stead: that reminds me, we had a really discussion a- around safety and, you know, reasonable and [00:20:00] practicable, and discussion around all the lessons learned about how…
or what is best practice on a site, what is best practice about how to manage risks and-
Rosemary Barnes: Mm.
Matthew Stead: Yeah. Yeah. I know you, you, you enjoyed that one.
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, yeah, definitely. And we’re not talking about, like, safety the- Ear muffs or hats. The, um, rou- Yeah, the routine safety that if you- The goggles, yeah … yeah, trip over and graze your knee, then you need to let the site supervisor know.
You, you know, it’s not that stuff, ’cause sites have that under control. That’s a given, yeah. Or at least the ability to get that under control. We’re talking about the bigger- Yeah … bigger things, you know. Like, uh, is there a issue that is causing blades to fall off turbines every now and then? Is there an issue that, uh, can lead to, you know, a fire?
I, I think everyone, like- Yeah … a big fear of everybody’s. There’s never been, um, in Australia at least, there’s never been a wind turbine fire that has caused a bush fire, but it is a possibility, and it would be so bad for the industry. So, you know, it’s those things- Mm … that could be just terrible, preventing those before they happen.
Mm. So that’s the kind of safety that we’re gonna mainly focus on. Mm. Although, you know, we’re not gonna [00:21:00] turn down questions on, um, some of the smaller stuff as well.
Matthew Stead: Yeah.
Rosemary Barnes: Mm.
Matthew Stead: And we even thought about getting some lawyers-
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah …
Matthew Stead: you missed out on this discussion, Rosie. Okay.
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah.
Matthew Stead: So
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Lawyers, this is news to me.
Well, I mean, are we talking contracts or, um-
Matthew Stead: No, no … no … it’s really operations. I mean- Right … the environmental, um, issues- Oh yeah … the operational issues. Mm. You know, there’s, there’s a few things in there that the lawyers can add.
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. I mean- … I’ve, I constantly find myself having to interpret, you know, legal, um, legal text and also anticipate, you know, it’s one thing about what’s the right engineering, but then there is also the legal interpretation of it- Yeah
uh, as well, you know, in terms of contract law, but then also in, in terms of safety. Yeah. Um, yeah. Was this certification done correctly? You know- Yeah … that’s got some legal aspect to it. So yeah, that- Yeah … makes sense to me. Insurance is another one where I would say- Yeah, actually that came up … you know, like some, some people might think that that doesn’t sound interesting, but yeah, in- insurance is the other-
Matthew Stead: Mm
Rosemary Barnes: aspect that you [00:22:00] just can’t, um, you can’t get away from it. Like, you can’t just think that you’re, you’re doing your engineering without bothering about Mm … yeah, like finance and law and, um, and insurance. Those are things that- Mm … you spend a lot of time thinking about.
Matthew Stead: Yeah. Mm. And I guess we would also love to hear, you know, about potential speakers, but we’d also love to hear any other topics that people are attending and want to know about as well.
Rosemary Barnes: Mm-hmm.
Allen Hall: Absolutely. And if you haven’t registered for WOMA 2027, which will be March 3rd through 5th at the Pullman in East Melbourne, right? East Melbourne, yeah. They just redefined it. It’s Pullman in East Melbourne. Uh, go ahead and go to woma2027.com and register now. Uh, Matthew and Rosemary, it’s great to see you in person again, and we’ll see you in a couple of weeks, uh, hopefully in, in Germany.
Rosemary Barnes: Mm.
Allen Hall: Very [00:23:00] exciting.
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