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There were 500 attacks on undersea energy in Europe in 2024–what does that mean for offshore wind? SunTrain may be powering Denver in the near future. And the latest workplace trend, “Coffee Badging”, may not be the best plan for new employees.

Fill out our Uptime listener survey and enter to win an Uptime mug! Register for Wind Energy O&M Australia! https://www.windaustralia.com

Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!

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Allen Hall: Coffee badging hits the workplace, NATO addresses offshore wind security, and a wild proposal to move solar power by train. Plus, NextEra’s massive Montana wind project powers up.

You’re listening to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast, brought to you by BuildTurbines.

com. Learn, train, and be a part of the clean energy revolution. Visit BuildTurbines. com today. Now here’s your hosts, Allen Hall, Joel Saxum, Phil Totaro, and Rosemary Barnes.

Allen Hall: Hey, Uptime Community. We want to help to shape the future of your favorite wind energy podcast. I need you to take our quick five minute survey at uptimewindenergy.

com for a chance to win an exclusive Uptime mug. Now your insights matter to us, whether you’re a longtime listener or have just joined us. So please go to uptimewindenergy. com and complete the survey. And our friends at Wind Energy O& M Australia. are busy at the moment because everybody’s registering.

Now you don’t want to miss this event. It’s on February 11th and 12th in Melbourne, and you’re going to get hands on with solutions, including leading edge erosion, lightning protection advances, life extensions, CMS. Gearbox. Anything you want to know about turbines, we’re going to be talking about it in Melbourne.

And you’re going to be able to connect with a bunch of experts from Maroon, SkySpecs, Tilt Renewables, GE Vernova, RigCom, Whirly, Elogix Ping, and many, many more. So you need to reserve your spot now by visiting windaustralia. com Phil, is there any highlights on, on windaustralia.

Phil Totaro: com? Allen, you’re right. We have a total of 32, uh, or participants and speakers from a total of 32 different companies at this point, registrations today, uh, that I haven’t even checked in yet.

So, it’s, uh, you know, tickets are going like hotcakes at this point, and we are actually capacity limited at this facility, so get yours today, uh, if you want to be part of this event.

Allen Hall: And it’s time to transform your safety program with Active Training Team’s Free Houston Expo on January 24th. Experience the innovative training methods that are revolutionizing the energy sector.

And let’s face it, laptop training sucks. But Active Training Team uses real live actors on site to place your team members in real world situations. 24th, and to secure your spot, you should go to ActiveTrainingTeam. org. dot U S H slash contact or email Florence at ActiveTrainingTeam dot co dot U K.

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Allen Hall: There’s a new workplace trend called coffee badging and companies are pushing for return to office and employees are doing what this new thing is called coffee badging, and what that means is that you walk into the office, check in, get yourself a cup of coffee. You hang out, chit chat. And then you go back home.

And employers obviously know about this, but they’re not really doing too much about it at the minute. It does meet minimum office requirements. So a lot of large companies say that counts as being in the office. But the demographics for this are really interesting, Joel. Uh, if you look at who is actually doing the coffee badging, mostly men, like 60, 40 men to women are doing this practice and it also is related to age.

Uh, it looks like Gen X and Gen Z are the ones who are most active in this coffee badging scenario. And to me, this is a little weird because it’s got to be the most expensive cup of coffee you can get, right?

Joel Saxum: So a big thing here that’s not being taken into consideration in any of these conversations. We talked a little bit about this return to work last week.

Is the cost of it, right? So in this article, we’re talking about, you know, a hybrid worker, they’re spending an average of 50, 50 or so a day to commute into the office. So, I mean, that, that adds up, right? 400, 500 a month for a hybrid worker, or even a thousand dollars for someone full time. And, and it’s something that I, it was taken into, taken into consideration, you know, or not taken into consideration before when we never, not that many people were working remotely.

But now when people are starting to go back and then see that cost, that’s a lot of money. I mean, for a lot of people, that’s a big percentage of salary. So I think I align right with you, Allen, saying this is a really, really expensive cup of coffee. Cause if it’s going to be 50 to go in and out, that’s.

Plus your coffee. That’s 50 bucks for your coffee.

Allen Hall: Rosemary, you say Australian coffee is really good. So it’s probably worth going into the office for, is this a trend in Australia too?

Rosemary Barnes: Um, I don’t know. I work for myself primarily. I do have an office, um, for the startup that I work for and I go in there.

Once a week or so. They’ve got terrible coffee in, in there. Um, yeah, but I mean, I actually, I think maybe I’m, although you said, right, that this is a gen X and Z thing, missing out millennials in the middle, gen Y.

Allen Hall: Millennials are also highly involved in this.

Rosemary Barnes: Okay. Cause I’m a millennial and, um, I actually miss the office quite a lot because, uh, I don’t know.

I, um, I think when you’re trying to work. Creatively, like, you know, to me, engineering is a creative, creative discipline, which, you know, a lot of people might be surprised to learn. But, um, I really gained a lot from, um, coffee, chit chat, and talking in the canteen when I used to work in Denmark, there was a canteen and everyone had lunch together every day away from the computer.

And, um, yeah, like you learn about what else is going on in the company. You learn about, you know, Oh, Hey, this guy worked on something similar 15 years ago, and you would never have known except for that you ran into him and, Um, he overheard you talking about something that he knew about and Yeah. So I, I kind of actually think that all that is incredibly valuable.

Allen Hall: Was this similar to the mouse moving devices that have become popular? I’ve got hit with a lot of ads over the Christmas holidays for mouse movers. And I thought, really, is this something? But evidently a large number of people that work from home have. Little mouse movers just look like they’re active at the desk.

Rosemary Barnes: Aren’t managers tracking the output? Like a mouse mover, like are there really managers who are like, it’s super important that you’re moving your mouse eight hours every day and they don’t actually care if you get any work done or not. I just find this so. Crazy that anybody manages like

Phil Totaro: that. On my end, I mean, I said this last week already, like, but we’re, you know, my company is, you know, half consultancy, half, you know, software as a service, uh, kind of development platform.

And we have the ability for, for myself and all the contract employees to work wherever everybody wants to. Um, so at the end of the day, people are, you Engaged in a job, especially like a back office, you know, white collar, typically, uh, type of job, like, you don’t have to actually be in the office. I agree with Rosie that you do lose a lot when you’re not there, and it’s maybe important for a younger generation to do it, but I’m not surprised that people, I am Gen X, I’m not surprised people in my generation and, and above are You know, doing this because it just, there’s a point at which being in the office is more consuming than the ability that you have when working remotely to increase your productivity.

Um, because you’re not always being bothered by somebody that wants, you know, an answer for, for two minutes of your time or this, that, whatever. Um, so it’s, it’s, there needs to be a balance though. And at the end of the day, like I said last week, you know, people. need to get their job done or they get fired one way or the other.

So mouse movers and all this other coffee badging, I mean, whatever. Like, as long as you get your job done and you’re helping the company achieve the goals and objectives that are important here, then whatever it takes.

Joel Saxum: As busy wind energy professionals, staying informed is crucial. And let’s face it, difficult.

That’s why the Uptime Podcast recommends PES Wind Magazine. PES Wind offers a diverse range of in depth articles and expert insights that dive into the most pressing issues facing our energy future. Whether you’re an industry veteran or new to wind, PES Wind has the high quality content you need. Don’t miss out.

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Allen Hall: A new clean energy transportation concept called Trains Mission is being proposed in Colorado with SunTrain launching a demonstration project between Pueblo and Denver. The project aims to use rail cars equipped with iron phosphate batteries to transport renewable energy from solar farms to urban areas.

SunTrain, along with the Colorado Governor, Xcel Energy, and Clean Energy Advocates, are seeking 10 million in a federal grant to begin operations by 2026. Now, the SunTrain plans to demonstrate this transportation system using train cars with these big batteries, essentially. They’re going to have 20 of these train cars, and it’s going to move about 100 miles between Pueblo and Denver.

So it’s going to charge them in Pueblo, Move them up using a diesel train to Colorado and discharge them and keep going back and forth. And evidently there is some economics to do this.

Rosemary Barnes: It’s not even an electric train.

Allen Hall: No, it’s not an electric train. I

Rosemary Barnes: guess if they had electrified railway, they could just use that to transmit the electricity instead.

Allen Hall: Yeah, they’re talking about making an electric train as they move along through this process, but it is odd, Rosemary, that you can’t get power from Pueblo to Denver efficiently. And, and the, one of the ways you would do it is basically charge up a bunch of batteries and drag them up to the destination.

That makes no sense. And maybe you’re right. Maybe we do electrify the train rails. Maybe that’s an easier way to do this. It’s, it’s a little crazy, but where have we gotten to in transmission if this project makes sense?

Joel Saxum: Yeah, if you’ve worked on the front range of Colorado before doing any kind of development project, you know that there’s a lot of political problems there.

Whether, because there’s a division, there’s, when you’re down in Pueblo, you get to the edge of where you’re in ranching territory and then you get across that and you get towards Colorado Springs and it becomes a lot more Denver City. There’s a big blue red divide there, so you’re fighting political problems the whole way.

While you try to push this, you know, what would be essentially a transmission line there. And so if it’s gotten to that point, that means that the permitting is either, or the permitting is too tough. It’s too expensive to build, which that actually would be kind of an expense. The real estate, once you start getting close to Denver is expensive.

And then you’re also punching through some foothills and through some mountains and some other difficult terrain, some federal land, some forest reserves and some other things that are difficult. I think going back to where are we at, we’re in a bad spot. I mean, because of whatever hurdle it was or whatever, the economic sense, it makes sense.

And if you’re looking for 10 million dollars to do this project, it must be costing a lot more than 10 million to build that uh, transmission line.

Rosemary Barnes: You know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of there’s, um, you know, gravity energy storage, like energy vault, where they lift blocks uphill and then drag it down.

Um, there’s actually a version of that concept that involves rail. It’s called advanced rail energy storage. And they do use railways to drag blocks up a hill and then, um, drag them down again. And, you know, it’s I’ve got to say that makes a whole lot more sense than charging an electric, um, yeah, battery, uh, and then physically transporting it to discharge and then take it back again.

It’s, yeah, it’s, it’s very strange.

Phil Totaro: I mean, that’s, Rosie, what you’re describing is a mechanical equivalent to pumped storage, and we have a ton of that around the world, especially in Scandinavian countries, where, you know, they’ve got a lot of fjords and whatnot, so, you know, it’s, uh, this, however, like, putting, like, solar power into batteries on a train and then dragging the train up with diesel to, it just doesn’t compute.

And at the end of the day, I mean, no matter how expensive the transmission is, the electrons are used by everybody. Uh, you know, so the, the various forms of power generation that we can have, you know, everybody’s going to be able to benefit from that. So this is one of those, maybe eminent domain has to come into play here and they just need to get the job done.

This, I mean, look, this is one of these things we talk about on the show quite a bit, like sounds viable technologically doesn’t really sound viable commercially. I’m sure that they can get 10 million in grant money or whatever seed money from the government or somebody else to go build one of these pilot projects, but I don’t really see this happening.

I think this is a specific solution for a problem. Different problem than what we really have. Yeah, they have a transmission problem, but that’s the problem we need to solve, not doing it this way.

Rosemary Barnes: Do you think that maybe it’s, um, a higher level play that really the point of this project is to say, come on guys, like, can we really not get transmission done?

This is what we’re looking at. If we can’t just build the damn transmission line, let’s just get our act together and then maybe it will focus people’s attention to say, uh, yeah, okay, you know what? This is getting ridiculous. Let’s put some new transmission in.

Joel Saxum: I don’t understand that like the there’s a technical part of this too, though, that we’re not, it’s not laid out here and I’m sure this has been thought of, but how long does it take to charge and discharge?

They’re looking at the first thing is 20, 20 cars that can power 20 or a thousand homes for a full day. So, and now they’re going to want to expand it to a hundred train cars at the end of the How fast can you charge and discharge those?

Phil Totaro: I mean, they can, Joel, they can charge fairly fast. You can, uh, uh, 20 megawatt hour battery or so can charge in, like, Two hours, I think, if it’s, you know, if you’re doing it the right way, and you don’t blow it up.

But the, the reality is, I don’t know why they would do this with solar power, because if you’re trying to, like, it would make more sense to do it with wind, because wind blows at night, especially in the wintertime. You know, you charge up the batteries at night, you drag them up in the morning, and then you’ve got power during the peak time of the day.

Like, what are you doing Hmm Charging. I mean, I guess if you’re doing it with solar, you’re charging between basically 10 AM when the sun’s actually up and then, you know, maybe 2 PM.

Rosemary Barnes: I guess it’s a bit more predictable. Like you could get on a regular schedule with solar power, whereas you couldn’t with wind, but how, what’s the distance, Allen, that you said that they want to do this a hundred miles or something?

Allen Hall: It’s about a hundred miles. Yeah. It’s about a hundred miles.

Rosemary Barnes: So, I mean, is a solar resource. It’s actually different between those two locations. Why not just put the solar panels where you want to use the solar energy and have stationary batteries? I, um.

Joel Saxum: The price of land. The price of land around Denver is extreme.

Rosemary Barnes: Well, put them on roofs. Well, you know, you guys can learn how to do it when you come to Australia. You can get some tips on, on how to put solar panels on roofs. It’s um, it’s cheaper for us to put them on roofs than land. Not for you, I know, but.

Joel Saxum: This is I 25. Like, this is a I’ve driven this many times. This is a main highway.

I can’t understand why they why this is even a thought process. Why I can’t just hook into the existing grid. Clearly there must be an issue with it, but it doesn’t seem like there should be. These are two, like, Pueblo’s a big city and Denver’s a hundred miles away. They should be connected with sufficient capacity, throughput capacity.

Allen Hall: I would think, but apparently not. Just as an aside, I did look up what one train car of coal would generate in terms of gigawatt hours. It’s about 0. 8. So it’s about 800 megawatt hours per train. Car of coal. So if they’re in theory, if you get the energy density way up, then it may make sense to push batteries around.

Phil Totaro: Well, I don’t know that pushing batteries around, if we got the energy density of storage way up, then that would actually unlock a lot more. You know, ancillary services and other commercially viable things that we could do with longer duration storage that would probably resolve a lot of these issues in the first place, and then you wouldn’t need to be dragging batteries around by train, you know, especially a diesel train.

Like, this just, this is one of these, like, I don’t think it makes sense. We should, we should introduce a thing on the show, like, you know, uh, I don’t know, like, yay, yay or nay, and it’s just, I, I vote nay on this one.

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Allen Hall: A couple of weeks ago, we were talking about underwater cables and some sabotage that happened, uh, up around Finland and Germany.

And that led to a kind of a larger discussion between us of what is happening out there and how much cable damage is there. Actually, there’s a lot more than I thought there was. Now, NATO has held a meeting and is trying to understand some of the risks here and put some frameworks in, and it’s reinforced its commitment to protecting Europe’s critical undersea energy infrastructure at its annual roundtable in Brussels.

Now, this recent meeting addressed growing concerns about the physical and cyber threats to offshore wind farms and undersea cables. particularly in the Baltic and the Arctic Seas, uh, Wind Europe CEO, Giles Dixon, joined the discussion to highlight the importance of protecting both, uh, physical assets and data security around wind energy infrastructure.

Now, some of the numbers here are quite disturbing. NATO has documented 500 suspicious incidents in Europe. in 2024 with approximately 100 tribute attributed to Russian hybrid attacks, espionage and influence operations. And with modern wind turbine, modern wind turbines utilizing several hundred sensors at times.

Uh, there’s a lot of ways to sneak into a wind turbine and to get past some of the security systems. So this is a pretty large threat, everybody. If you’re having 500 Documented threats a year. I’m not sure the infrastructure is hardened enough to handle all that. Joel, being our underwater expert, what is the likely outcome of this?

Are we going to see more hardening of underwater cables in particularly around wind turbines?

Joel Saxum: I think you definitely will in the upcoming future. As we build out more and more things and we’ve started to see this as a higher risk, of course. Insurance companies are going to demand it. Financial companies are going to demand it.

And it’s not that hard to do, right? It’s just expensive. So you lay a cable on the bottom of the ocean. What people don’t realize is, and you can Google this just like, Hey, map of cables in the ocean. You will be wildly surprised of what the world’s oceans look like up a spaghetti bowl of cables and pipelines, because they’re everywhere.

Uh, you just think about how, you know, how. How quickly we can communicate. We’re talking with Rosemary right now down in Australia. Australia’s an island, right? There’s cables, redundancy and redundancy and bandwidth all over the place to connect everybody. So you’re not going to see, maybe on some high value things, uh, a, you know, retrofit campaigns to, to, like you say, Allen Harden, these assets to put some, you know, some concrete mattresses or something, or some rock dumps on them to protect them.

I don’t think you’ll see that, but I believe going forward. I think the recent, you know, global actions will demand it. You’re going to have to say, put, you know, put a rock dump on top of this thing, or, or put some, um, you know, preformed concrete blocks or bollards on top of these cables to protect them.

Allen Hall: So does this then change the way we start designing wind turbines? Siemens, Kamesa and Vestas are going to be the two offshore wind turbines providers. And all the companies that are involved with this, are they changing designs as we speak? Is NATO talking to them and saying, look, we need to harden these turbines way beyond what they are right now, if they plan to stay out in the water for 20, 30 years?

Because I guarantee you the opposition is trying to develop ways to Take down these turbines, plus other data lines, everything else. And they have to be working this and they’re using very crude methods at the moment, basically dragging anchors. But that ain’t, that’s going to end pretty quickly. They’re going to come to more advanced techniques, you’d think over the next year or two.

I think they’re, they’re from,

Joel Saxum: from a cyber security standpoint, the turbines are designed fairly robustly. There is cybersecurity insurance out there. That’s becoming a new product as well. I’ve, I’ve seen on the market. But from that standpoint, we do pretty well. Idaho National Labs and our friends over at Everpoint, Everpoint Resources in a little Pringle wind farm.

They’ve been doing a lot of testing there. Um, and if you have something that you want to test, you can get ahold of them and they’ll help you out. But I think it’s more what we’re worried about now is the more agricultural kind of physical things, right? Running into a turbine or dragging a cable. Um, those are the design, uh, and construction things that are going to change less than the The actual electronics part of it, I think.

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Joel Saxum: So the Wind Farm of the Week this week is the Clear Water Energy Project, uh, by NextEra and Portland General Electric, uh, which is up in Montana, northwest of Miles City. Uh, it’s three phases. began commercial operation in December of 23. So it’s just a year old.

Uh, the interesting thing about this is, uh, and Rosemary, we talk about it regularly on the podcast about the differences between, um, wind resources in certain areas of the country. They’re taking wind energy, which is across the Rockies, From Eastern Montana, from this wind farm. And they’re bringing it, PGE is bringing it to their customers in Oregon.

So they’re pushing, putting, uh, enough power in through, from this wind farm to power 830, 000 homes over in Oregon. Uh, that’s a hundred million LED light bulbs or 83 percent of a time traveling DeLorean. Yes. So the Clearwater Energy Project, which is, um, up, up over 200 turbines, Uh, 243 to be exact, GE2X machines, uh, you are our wind farm

Allen Hall: of the week.

That’s going to do it for this week’s Uptime Wind Energy podcast. Thanks for listening. Please give us a five star rating on your podcast platform and subscribe in the show notes below to Uptime Tech News, our Substack weekly newsletter. And we’ll see you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy podcast.

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Pardalote Studies Australian Blade Erosion and Heat Fatigue

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Pardalote Studies Australian Blade Erosion and Heat Fatigue

Rosemary Barnes, CEO and founder of Pardalote Consulting, joins to discuss their new grant-funded study of blade erosion and heat fatigue in Australia.

Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTubeLinkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!

Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining light on wind energy’s brightest innovators. This is the progress powering tomorrow

Allen Hall 2025: Well, Rosemary, welcome back to the show.

Rosemary Barnes: Thanks, Allen. Great to be here. For, it’s been a while since we did one of these one-on-one episodes, like a, yeah, a proper, proper guest. 

Allen Hall 2025: Well, this is kind of a celebratory episode because your company, Pardalote Consulting, has been awarded, uh, some funding from the Australian Capital Territory’s government for the Energy Innovation Fund.

Rosemary Barnes: It’s a really good program that the ACT government has to try and get energy innovation In the state. It’s not a state actually, it’s technically a territory. Little more than just Canberra, the city. Uh, but there are actually quite a few, like, really interesting energy-related companies here, partly ’cause of the, the fund I think helps, but also just tracing back like, [00:01:00] uh, y- you know, in the 20-teens, Australia had a really conservative government that hated renewable energy, and the ACT government had a commitment at that time to 100%, um, 100% renewable electricity for the, the government.

And that was one of the only programs that was resulting in a lot of, um, you know, clean energy projects being built, and one of the conditions that they put on that, uh, for people that would win PPAs with the ACT was that you had to have your headquarters in Canberra. So we’ve actually got quite a few, quite a few really cool, innovative companies out of here.

Um, like Neoen’s headquarters here. Windlab, uh, yeah, was, was founded here and still has a lot of people here. Pardalote obviously, and you know, a few other companies as well. So despite it being a small city of like, I don’t know, maybe it’s up to 400,000 or something people by now, um, yeah, there is actually quite a lot going on here for energy.

Allen Hall 2025: And the Energy Innovation Fund is funded by the wind and solar operators in the area, and your particular [00:02:00] effort has really global consequences. You’re focusing on two areas involving how wind turbines survive Australia, but more, uh, of relevance is to just really tough conditions which exist not just in Australia but around the world.

What two areas are you going to focus on?

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. So the two focus areas are leading edge erosion and high temperature fatigue, which we can probably get into the definitions of those in a minute. But basically my, um– what led me to wanna have a project like this was that when I moved back to Australia in 2021, I– and I started working in O&M, uh, I noticed that the wind turbines that I would look at, the blades that I would look at here behaved really differently to the ones that I worked with overseas.

You know, es- especially with leading edge erosion, like often I would be doing a condition assessment of a, you know, a new wind farm. Um, might only have been operating for, you know, two years. That’s a pretty common time for people to get in and do a condition assessment [00:03:00] because their warranty period is about to end and they wanna, you know, make sure that everything is okay.

Um, and I would just notice that often, like 90, 100% of blades would already have bad erosion after just a couple of years, which is super-duper fast. And then there are some tools available to check, um, like what kind of erosion are you likely to experience on your site. Like is it a higher severity erosion site or a, a low severity one?

Um, and you basically, you know, the status quo globally is to just look at the annual rainfall, um, and the tip speed. And if you’ve got, you know, high for both of those, that’s a bad erosion site. And if you’ve got low for both of those, it’s a, a low erosion site. But when I plotted out the wind farms that I knew had really bad erosion problems onto, you know, a chart with those two axes, I just saw a random distribution of dots.

You know? Like, this was not– uh, this had no predictive value for Australian wind farms. And so that led me to believe that, okay, um, you know, things are a bit [00:04:00] different here. Makes sense, you know, most of the knowledge that we have about how wind turbines operate, it’s been developed and validated mostly in Northern Europe.

You know? Like it’s, it’s Denmark and the surrounding countries that had, like, the bulk of the early wind energy. First few decades of knowledge were, you know, were mostly there. Of course, there were some other, um, places that had wind turbines, but, you know, most of the The OEMs have been operating for decades, came from Denmark.

And I know when I lived in Denmark, the rain there is very different to the rain in Australia. So in Denmark, it’s basically always raining, right? Like, it’s just… Like, even if it’s not raining, you’re still gonna get wet when you go outside ’cause it’s just, like, the air has this just amazing ability to just hold onto moisture.

Um, but it’s very, very gentle. But, you know, over an entire year of most days having gentle rain, that adds up to a lot. Whereas in Australia, and especially if you go, like, north to Queensland, it rarely rains. It’s mostly just dry, and when it [00:05:00] does rain, it’s like a tap turns on, and I, I swear you will get bruised from the rain droplets hitting your skin.

You know, they just have so much energy in them. So I think that that i- you know, when you look at just the overall rainfall, you really hide something important about how erosion, um, can progress. Then, um, there’s other places in Australia that have very different characteristics. Again, they don’t have that kind of really intense rain but, you know, some of those sites are also having really bad erosion.

And so it just occurred to me, I did a lot of research, you know, into what’s going on and, you know, the academics are studying erosion a whole lot, and they’ve got, you know, a lot of standardized tests and, you know, products are developed according to these standardized tests. But the standardized tests don’t actually resemble reality, and especially they don’t resemble reality in Australia.

And so my client started asking me, “Okay, you know, the products that we have are, are terrible. We have to replace them every couple of years. It’s, um, causing big problems with also [00:06:00] the amount of energy that you’re losing.” One of the types of, um, leading-edge erosion or leading-edge problems that we have in Australia is that the, the coatings tend to peel off and make these, like, big flakes which will just massively disrupt the airflow, can cause y- you know, at least a few percent AEP loss, and maybe up to five.

And even worse than the AEP loss is the revenue loss because it affects it most at, you know, lower wind speeds. Um, you get a bigger hit than at rated wind speeds. So there’s a variety of problems going on with leading edges in Australia, which mean that I, I basically… My clients would ask, “What product should we put on to prevent having to, you know, constantly replace this?”

‘Cause it costs, like- you know, 30, $40,000 per turbine to replace the protection, not to mention, you know, one or two days of downtime. It’s expensive, and I basically, I didn’t have a good answer for them. What, what product should they put on? I don’t know. No, we, we don’t know. One, we don’t know what the [00:07:00] specific, um, characteristics are that are…

what the specific local environment, local conditions are that are accelerating leading-edge erosion, one. And two, all of the products tend to be tested around this, you know, there’s this protocol that academics have come up with, and they’ve kind of like assumed that this is representative of how things behave in the field, and it’s– I don’t think it’s particularly true anyway, but it’s especially not true in Australia.

There are a few companies that are testing to different standards. Um, definitely applaud them. But without knowing wha- what are the conditions truly like in Australia, uh, it’s really hard to advise, like, what kind of tests should you be demanding from a product you’re considering to be sure that you’re gonna put it on and not gonna be replacing it again in two years.

Allen Hall 2025: Because that’s really the trouble in Australia is when you get offered products They have been tested generally in somewhere in Europe and maybe in the United States, and then when they go to [00:08:00] Australia, it’s really unknown as to how those products will do, which is a huge risk for the Australian wind market as to what to choose, how to choose, is it– what’s real in terms of test data.

So now you’re gonna go out and do what? Are you gonna put sensors out by the wind farms? Are you gonna try to do more of a statistical summary of the actual environment around wind farms using existing data? What’s the approach here?

Rosemary Barnes: It’s all of the above, but the part that is supported by the grant is that we’re gonna have enough money to be able to buy some scientific-grade sensors and put them on, um, a sample of Australian wind farms.

So we’re gonna be looking at a lot more characteristics about the rain than simply is it raining now, you know, how many millimeters per hour. We’re also gonna be investigating, you know, every kind of characteristic of, of that, um, of that rain, um, including, yeah, like the, the energy that’s in it, for example.

A, a bunch of stuff. I won’t get into every single [00:09:00] parameter. Um, and you know, other things as well, like measuring UV, solar radiation, um, particles, because, you know, in Australia we have a lot of dirt roads, which I know is very common in wind farms around the world, but Australian dirt roa- roads are always dry and dusty, like 99% of the time, so that’s one of the things that y- you know, maybe that’s causing a difference.

Um, so basically putting sensors all over a bunch of wind turbines and then monitoring the erosion, um, a combination of some real-time monitoring and also looking at inspection, um, drone inspection images annually. We also have a- an option where we’ll just be using SCADA data and inspection images, so that’s like a lower cost version where we can combine that with the findings from the scientific-grade instrumented turbines to build up a picture of what types of conditions lead to accelerated erosion.[00:10:00]

Allen Hall 2025: So the SCADA data will, will have some information inside of it, you think, that, uh, will correlate to the weather outside?

Rosemary Barnes: It has some Additionally, we can look up, um, you know, just the weather data, like how many millimeters fell during which 15-minute interval throughout the day, what was the temperature.

SCADA will tell us also what the temperature was, um, what the speed of the turbine was, so you can calculate the tip speed, ’cause that’s an important thing. Um, yeah, so it’s, it’s two, it’s two tiers of data collection. The scientific grade sensors, as you can imagine, are, are really expensive and y- you know, the, the grant project has contributed a, a lot of funding, um, but it’s not enough to put those, yeah, put a little mini lab on top of every turbine across Australia, obviously.

So that we’re using s- doing selectively, and then we can increase the number of wind farms that are included in the study by just doing this, um, cheaper version of the SCADA [00:11:00] plus, uh, weather data that’s available.

Allen Hall 2025: So what are some of the risks on the temperature side for all the high-temperature regions of Australia that have wind turbines?

Clearly it’s generally warmer in Australia than it is in, in Scandinavia and Northern Europe. What kind of temperatures are we talking about on the ground?

Rosemary Barnes: Uh, well, temperatures here can get pretty close to 50 degrees. Um, and if you’ve ever been inside a wind turbine blade on a, even a mildly hot day, you’ll know that the temperature inside a wind turbine, and especially inside the blade, is much hotter than what it is, uh, what the ambient temperature is.

So this project is one– I’ve actually been talking about this project for, yeah, like over 10 years now. Ever since I started, I moved to Denmark, started working for a wind turbine manufacturer, I had done– I had just finished doing my PhD on composite materials, structural design, and analysis. So, um, yeah, very, very familiar with, [00:12:00] you know, how composite materials work and, in particular, the effect that temperature has on them.

I mean, like most materials, when composites get warmer, they get softer, and that is really important for a w- a wind turbine blade. You know, if it gets, um, less stiff, then you’re gonna get a lot more strain, and that is going to affect your fatigue behavior. Y- you know, fatigue is just the application of a little bit of, a small amount of strain.

It’s not gonna cause damage, but when you apply it millions, tens of millions of times, like you do in a, o- over a wind turbine’s operate, um, operating lifetime, then that builds up. And, you know, wind turbine blades are a very fatigue-driven design. Um, it’s one of the most important things to consider when you’re designing a wind turbine blade.

And so when I got to Denmark and I learned how materials are qualified and how the qualification is treated in the certification process, I just realized it’s not particularly conservative, and also that some of the assumptions that are made that [00:13:00] wo- again, they worked really well in more moderate climates where wind turbines have had most of their developmental history.

You know, it’s not such a big deal there if you test at room temperature. Your wind turbine blade is spending most of its operating lifetime at room temperature or below. It’s, it’s rarely, you know, above 30 degrees in Denmark and most of Northern Europe and, you know, also a lot of, um, a lot of America, not, not all of it But, um, in Australia it has just extended periods above that temperature and even exceeding the temperature where, you know, wind turbines have an operating limit and after that they will shut down.

But the operating limits are based on ambient temperature. It’s not based on what’s the temperature in the laminate, which is what really matters for blade lifetime. So anyway, I’ve been obsessed, like honestly obsessed about this issue for 10 years. Talked about it with anybody who would listen . But then when I started working in O&M in [00:14:00] Australia and I started seeing some wind farms with an abnormal number of cracks early…

again, early in their lifetime, you know, I think one of the wind farms I was looking at was maybe three years old or four at the time. I think it was three actually, and had a lot of cracks, and I looked at a few years in a row and it was more and more cracks every year and I’m like, “Oof, this really looks like end of life fatigue behavior.”

A- actually it’s not, y- you know, there’s this concept of a bathtub curve where, um, when you’re looking at failures in components, in, in anything, not just in, um, wind turbine blades, but you know, like you’d start– it’s called a bathtub because, you know, when it starts operating, you’ll get quite a lot of failures.

Anything big, any manufacturing defects or anything are gonna cause failures quite fast, and that kind of drops off over time as all of those, uh, get addressed. And then you have, you know, the bulk of your operating life, it’s like pretty low level, pretty, pretty constant for a long time and then as you get towards the end of the [00:15:00] life, you start to see failure rates rise up again.

That’s your fatigue failures, your end of life fatigue failures. And so when I saw the same types of cracks more and more each year, I’m like, “This looks like, you know, the foot end of the bathtub, not the head end.” And, uh, it made me worried and I’ve now seen that across a few wind farms in Australia at, um, hotter places.

There’s a few blade types that are more prone to it than others, but at this point it’s still a suspicion that that’s what’s going on. I mean, a suspicion backed by a lot of, a lot of theory and knowledge of how the certification process works. But this project now we’ve got some funding to actually go put some sensors onto wind turbines, actually learn what the temperatures are in the blades throughout the whole laminate, um, not just the, you know, on the outside surface or not just the ambient temperature, but actually, you know, develop a temperature gradient across the whole, um, the whole laminate in the blade shell.

Um, and [00:16:00] then we’re going to be doing a bunch of modeling basically to look at what is the effect of these different temperatures that blades are really seeing and how much would we expect to… that to decrease a lifetime. And then we should also be able to say, you know, if you have this issue in your wind farm, you might be able to change your operation a little bit and extend your lifetime a lot.

Because this one, it’s real– like, in contrast to leading edge erosion, leading edge erosion is just, it’s, you know, every wind turbine has it to a certain extent, and it, it’s always there, but it’s a relatively minor cost to fix it. You know, like it sounds like a lot, like 30, $40,000 per wind turbine, but, um, you know, compared to if you’ve got to replace every blade across your fleet because they’re all, you know, at the end of their life after five years, you know, that’s obviously shocking.

And, you know, that’s a bad example, but even in a y- you know, like a less extreme example, maybe [00:17:00] after 15 years you have to do a, you know, a f- a fleet-wide campaign to strengthen blades or something. It’s, you know, m- many millions of dollars for that, and so it c- could make sense to be able to learn, okay, what, what hours of operation should we be avoiding?

Additionally, because when it’s super-duper hot in Australia, usually you’ve got heaps of solar power and the electricity price is not that high. So I, I think that there– and I don’t, obviously, before we’ve done the project, I don’t know what the threshold is. But in both cases, we will be aiming to improve the knowledge of how you can operate to avoid these periods of accelerated damage.

Allen Hall 2025: Do you think you’re seeing more fatigue-like damage due to the blades operating when it’s hot or not operating when it’s hot, with maybe less airflow around the blade and maybe less cooling going on is just a temperature soak At rest? [00:18:00]

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. It’s interesting because the temperature is higher if it’s not rotating, um, because you get a whole lot of, um, convective heat, heat transfer when the turbine is operating.

So your temperatures are not gonna get as hot when operating as when they’re standing still. However, if it’s standing still, they’re only very lightly loaded. Like, yes, they’re gonna get, um, blown by, by gusts and, um, have a little bit of bending, but it’s, it’s very, very small compared to, uh, if it is y- you know, operational loads.

Uh, assuming that you’re not in the middle of a s- a storm. But yeah, a storm probably doesn’t come with 50 degrees temperatures.

Allen Hall 2025: And what part of the blade is susceptible to these higher temperatures? Is it the resin? Is it the fiberglass or carbon fiber? Or is it the, the glue, the bond joints? What part are you focused on?

Rosemary Barnes: The resin is the main part that I’m focused on. It gl- it could be an issue for glue too, actually. I haven’t even looked into what the, um, yeah, temperature assumptions are with, with glue, with [00:19:00] bond lines. But the failures that I’m seeing in the field are not, are not bond line issues. It’s, it’s, um, a laminate problem.

Allen Hall 2025: What about balsa and foam inside of the blade? Are they affected by the temperatures or are they pretty temperature stable?

Rosemary Barnes: I don’t think they’re affected at these kinds of temperatures, no. They, they don’t really do much actually. The, the core materials, like it, it is very important that they’re, that they’re there, but their job is really to keep the fiberglass separated from its- itself to make it stiffer.

So, um, yeah, that’s, that’s unlikely to be a, a major source of problems.

Allen Hall 2025: So this study is gonna work over about three years, and you have a number of wind farms that are participating. Are you looking for more wind farms to participate in Australia?

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, we can, um, have as many as, as people want to join.

We’ve got quite a good selection so far. Definitely can always welcome more. A, a bit limited in how many can get the really, um, good sensor [00:20:00]package, because the grant funding is a, you know, a certain amount, and that’s paying the bulk of those sensors. So, um, those spots are limited. So if anybody wants to really zone in on what is specifically causing erosion on their site, you know, if you know that you have got leading edge protection that is not good enough and you have to replace it soon, but you don’t know what to replace it with, then, you know, that would be the kind of wind farm that might want to consider, yeah, joining this and, um, you know, getting these sensors on their, um…

We’re putting them on top of the nacelles, most of them. Um, yeah, so that would be a good match then. Um, and then, yeah, for the ones that are doing the SCADA data and, um, weather data- There’s not such a, a hard limit on how many we can have join like that. So yeah, we can have more, more like that.

Allen Hall 2025: In the temperature fatigue effort, i- is that still looking for participants or are there particular wind turbine types or manufacturers that you’re [00:21:00] looking for to participate?

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, I think, um, I, I mean yes, we can have more of those. That’s a simpler, a, a simpler issue as well. The sensors are not so expensive and, um, it’s, yeah, it’s a, it’s a simpler project to join that one. We only need, you know, a couple of turbines per site, so it won’t be such a, uh, an involved process to get everything up on into the turbines.

And in terms of who might like to join that, I would say anybody that is in a really hot area where, you know, where they see a lot of days over 30 degrees, and if they see any days, you know, getting into the high 40s, then I would say that that’s worthwhile. Or even I have seen this issue in some milder sites, um, yeah, depending on the, on the blade type as well.

It is more common with polyester resins. They have a, a lower op- uh, maximum operating temperature than epoxy resins. But then also just anybody that has noticed just, hey, [00:22:00] we’ve got a lot of cracks, and it seems like we’re getting more and more cracks every year, which to be honest, can be hard to keep track of if you’re…

If you’ve got a full service agreement, uh, you know, an OEM managing your wind farm The early signs of this are gonna be category one and category two cracks. They’re not in exactly the same location. It’s, you know, it’s a tricky one. Normally, if you’re looking at a serial issue, then you’re going to have, uh, well, you know, your ideal pattern for a serial issue is the exact same thing happening over and over again.

And so it is harder to pull this out. It also really would be very rare for it to be happening in the first two years or three years, whatever your serial defect liability period is. So it’s quite hard. But, um, another group of wind farms that might like to consider it is if you know that in, you know, a certain number of years you have to renegotiate your service agreement or, you know, it ends and you might have to take over yourself, then this’ll be a really good way for you to [00:23:00] understand, you know, have I got a ticking time bomb here?

Um, because it’s not something that you’re gonna be aware of if you haven’t been, you know, doing some really, really in-depth shadow, shadow monitoring of your blades, you know, running your own inspections and looking at every single damage, not just category three, four, five, but lower ones. So yeah, I mean, there’s a, a wide variety of people that, that could be interested in joining.

Allen Hall 2025: Are you expecting a number of manufacturers that make leading-edge protection or involved in resin creation, some– there’s a number of resin companies and a variety of resins that are used globally, sort of interchangeably at times. Are you expecting some of those companies to participate in this effort just to learn about the Australian environment?

Rosemary Barnes: I think it would be a good opportunity to test out some products and see how they behave in the Australian context. I think that that would be a really good selling point, but I, I have to say that most of the companies doing that sort of thing that wanna enter Australia, they don’t [00:24:00] really consider…

Like, from the perspective of wind farm owners in Australia, if you can’t show us wind farms in Australia where this has worked and, you know, show us a before or after, you know, the old LEP lasted Two years and our LEP is going on four years now with no damage. It, you know, unless you’ve got a before and after like that, you can tell us however many turbines that you’ve got installed around the world, but, um, we don’t consider it validated, y- you know?

It’s not validated for Australian conditions yet. And I do have this same discussion over and over again with, you know, not just leading edge protection, but all kinds of, um, you know, manufacturers of whatever doodads that you put on to improve a, a wind turbine. It’s so different to Australia. Things break so fast.

And I’m talking everything, you know, like vortex generators fall off and, um, yeah, like, uh, you know, bits of lightning protection systems fall off, seals just [00:25:00] crumble and disintegrate. Um, and it, you know, we’re very wary of, of new products. So I, I do– I mean, I’m thinking of it more from my client’s point of view than from the product manufacturer’s point of view.

But one thing that I wanna get out of this pro- project is to be able to answer one of the most common questions that I get is, which is, what leading edge protection should I be putting on my turbine? And for now, I don’t know. I, I know a range of products that don’t work in Australia, and not much more than that.

So, um, yeah. And it’s also, you know, Australia’s a very varied place with lots of different kinds of climate too. So it’s not gonna be like, you know, the product that works in Queensland is the same one that’s gonna work in Tasmania, which is the same one that’s gonna work in Western Australia. You know, um, so it, this project is gonna really pull out what are the site specific issues you’ve got at your site and what kinds of, um, you know, tests would we need to see a product um, perform in order to know that this [00:26:00] is gonna last on your site.

Allen Hall 2025: W- what is the outcome of this project or these two projects? Are they gonna be reports or, uh, a, a continual monitoring system that’s designed for the Australian environment? How do you see this going?

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, so one part of it is, um, developing a way to identify periods of accelerated damage and to know not to operate during that time.

So we call it protective operation. Uh, so that would, uh, help you if, yeah, you’re trying to extend the life of something or increase the amount of time before you have to repair, then y- you know, that would be useful to have that knowledge. And it will be as simple as just an alert saying, “Hey, accelerated damage conditions.

Consider, you know, if you wanna keep on operating.” And, you know, if the price of electricity is super high at that time, they may want to push through, and if it’s low, they probably won’t want to. So that’s one thing. Um, especially, you know, as wind turbines get to their, near the end of their life. I’ve got some clients whose wind farms only have, you know, [00:27:00] maybe five years operation left.

They just simply don’t wanna repair their leading edge protection again. They just, they, they don’t wanna do that. So they would be happy to, you know, reduce operation a bit and have their turbine limp through to the end of the period. Y- you know, you want everything to wear out at once. You don’t want brand-new leading edge protection on a turbine that’s going to come down in a couple of years.

Um, so, you know, that’s, that’s one part of it. And then the other thing is, you know, turbines earlier in their lifetime, how can we optimize the maintenance schedule with leading edge erosion? Um, so, you know, like it’s a lot cheaper to, uh, replace the LEP if you get– catch it early, but then you don’t wanna be catching it too early and replacing it, you know, constantly when you, you don’t need to.

So, um, yeah, it, this, having this knowledge will enable a site-by-site operations and maintenance strategy with respect to leading edge protection. We also have some sites who are having trouble. They’ve got a full service agreement, and the OEM is [00:28:00] responsible for, um, doing the leading edge erosion repairs and protection replacement, but the owner is on the hook for paying for it.

At the other end, we’ve got people with full service agreements where technically the, um, manufacturer is supposed to be doing the leading edge protection and paying for it, but they argue about what, when does it need to be done. Because, you know, um, the operator might think if there’s no structural risk, then we don’t need to be replacing it.

And in the meantime, you’ve got turbines spinning around for years and years and years with, you know, these huge flakes of leading edge protection s- you know, causing the flow at the tip of the turbine to, to detach and to stall, and horrible aerodynamics, huge losses in power generation and revenue. And they’re having a big fight about, you know, is this necessary to do or not?

And then, you know, they’re just gonna put the exact same product on again ’cause the [00:29:00] OEMs are re- all really, really wedded to their own particular brand. It’s like, “Well, last time we had this product and it was factory applied, it lasted one year before it s- it was worse than, you know, if it wasn’t there at all.

Uh, we don’t really want you to put that one on again.” And so, you know, having the information that they need to be able to, you know, really bring data to these discussions and, you know, makes a, yeah, data not drama. That’s a, a good approach I think, um, for any kind of negotiation and especially in the case of leading edge erosion.

And then for the high temperature fatigue part of the problem, aside from, you know, just wanting to know are your blades aging, should you be looking at remediation action or changing the operation, the other really big key thing is, uh, you might need to have a fight with y- your OEM about if this turbine has been designed and operated correctly.

And so then having the data from this, um, project is going to give you the information that you need to come into that [00:30:00] argument with, again, the data not the drama. Um, and to, you know, in- increase your chances of succeeding in that kind of really tricky negotiation.

Allen Hall 2025: So if you’re an OEM or a manufacturer of equipment, an ISP, an operator, pretty much all aspects of wind operations, you probably ought to be getting a hold of Pardalote Consulting and Rosemary to talk about the opportunity to participate in this study.

How do people get ahold of you to, to do that?

Rosemary Barnes: People can go to our website, pardaloteconsulting.com, and get in touch via the contact form there, or you can, uh, look me up on LinkedIn, Rosemary Barnes. That’s probably the easiest, fastest way to get ahold of me personally.

Allen Hall 2025: Well, Rosemary, congratulations on the Energy Innovation Fund Awards and the new three-year effort.

If you are interested in participating with Pardalote Consulting and working with Rosemary and her team [00:31:00] in Australia, reach out to her on LinkedIn and get that process started, because this report and the data from all this analysis that’ll happen over the next couple of years will be important to the wind industry.

So you need to spend some time and get ahold of Rosemary and get this process started now. So Rosemary, congratulations. Uh, thanks for being back on the podcast, and looking forward to, uh, the next couple of years. It sh- should be exciting.

Rosemary Barnes: Thanks so much, Allen.

Pardalote Studies Australian Blade Erosion and Heat Fatigue

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Artificial Stupidity?

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We all understand that there are ultra-conservatives living all around us, but does anyone truly believe that our schoolteachers are ruining our society by teaching children the truth about U.S. and world history? Science? Current events?

Slavery and Jim Crow laws were bad.  Fascism is bad.  Our scientists are telling us that CO2 emissions are causing world temperatures to rise, destroying our planet’s capacity to support life.

Whom do these concepts upset?

Artificial Stupidity?

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No Such Thing as a “Dumb Question”

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There is nothing dumb about the question posed at left.  Democracies fail, falling into “banana republics” constantly.  The rate at which democracies become tyrannies is so great that some of them never make the news. Can you tell me anything about the governments of Eritrea or Chad?

What makes the situation in the United States is, yes, that it’s happening here in the United States, the very last place anyone would have suspected it.

You might have thought that Americans wouldn’t have voted for their nation to become Russia or North Korea.

You would have been wrong.

No Such Thing as a “Dumb Question”

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