Published

5 months ago

February 19, 2026

Alice Rush

Weather Guard Lightning Tech

WOMA 2026: Where Will Australian Wind Be in Five Years?

Recorded live at the Wind Operation and Maintenance Australia 2026 conference, Allen, Rosemary, Matthew, and Yolanda are joined by Thomas Schlegl for a panel discussion on where the Australian wind industry is headed over the next five years.

Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!

Alright, let’s get started. This is the, the final event of this three day marathon. Uh, where will we be in five years? And I have, uh, pretty much everybody from the Uptime podcast and Thomas Schlagel from eLog Ping. Uh. Uh, Rosie and I had a big argument before we all came about what we were going to be in five years, and Rosie’s and my opinion differed quite a bit just on, that’s, uh, that’s what led to me suggesting the personality test because yes, and that was, that’s actually a really good suggestion.

So I know something about myself now, but, uh, I, I think talking to people here, watching the presentations. And having an American slash European perspective on it. I think every, everybody can chime in here. Australia’s probably on a better pathway than a lot of places. Yeah. Well, I know I’ve been back in Australia for about [00:01:00] five years, five years.

Before that I was in Denmark. I left Australia. Because I was so like in despair about the state of renewables and also manufacturing and just doing smart engineering in Australia. Um, so yeah, when I came back five years ago, I was a bit shocked at how different things were in Australia. And I was also, you know, like I will say that it, we were, we were behind like way less mature than other, um, markets in terms of how we operated our wind energy assets.

Um, and it’s changed so much in five years, so like a half day, if I’m making predictions for where we’ll be in five years time, I have to, you know, like use that as a, it, it’s probably gonna be more than you would think in five years, just based on how far we’ve already come in, in five years. Um, so yeah, I think that five years ago people were trusting a lot more in the full service agreements.

Um, definitely there’s very few people who are still naive that that’s just, you know, um, a set and forget kind of thing that you [00:02:00] can do and not worry about it. Everybody’s now aware that you need to know, um, about your assets and we’re already to the point where there are like a lot of asset managers know so much, um, and, you know, have become real experts and really wasn’t, wasn’t the case five years ago.

So. I’m hopeful for that. Um, you know, that it, it will continue and yeah, probably at a faster pace than, um, what we see elsewhere. I think Australia is a really attractive market, not just for developing new wind projects, but also for developing all of the kinds of supporting technologies, which is, you know, like a lot of the people here either using or developing those kind of technologies.

And some of our challenges here make it the perfect place to, yeah, develop new text because. Things are, it’s really expensive to do repairs here. Um, the operating conditions are harsh and so things wear out and it just means that it’s, you can put together a positive business case for a new tech here much sooner than you could overseas.

So I’m really [00:03:00] hopeful that we see, you know, like a whole lot of innovation, um, in, in those kinds of technologies that are gonna help wind energy get a lot more mature. And even hearing some of the answers from last year to this year, you see that shift. Uh, I was really shocked last year how much reliance there was on.

The FSA and now I hearing a lot more discussion about, all right, we need to be shadow monitoring. We need to be looking at the, the, the data coming off, trying to hack, break into the passwords to get to the SCADA system, which was new, but I feel like very Australian thing to do. Matthew, you’ve been in the small business in Australia for, for several years in the wind business.

What do you see? I mean, you’ve been in it like for five years now. Plus actually more than that, uh, I actually did my first wind farm around 20 oh 2001. Okay. Or 2002. Um, that was from a noise perspective. So I, I’ve seen things, you know, the full cycle. Um, you know, there were many years of [00:04:00]despair, the whole, um, stop these, stop these things.

I’m actually featured, I was featured on Stop these things. So, um, don’t, don’t Google it. It was pretty horrible. So, um, we did a lot of work around infrasound and noise impacts and so there was many years which were, were pretty horrible. Um.

Over that time, I sort of relate to my daughter. My daughter’s turning 21 soon. She is a beautiful girl, turning into an adult, a wonderful adult, and it’s, I think the wind industry is really growing, maturing, growing up, and you know, is wonderful to see. And I think we are, we’re only gonna get better, stronger.

And I think one may, one note I made here is that now they’ve got wind, solar batteries. I just think it’s unstoppable, so I’m super optimistic that we’re only gonna keep, you know, raising that bar. Well, if you look at where Australia is compared to a lot of the places on the [00:05:00] planet, way ahead, in terms of renewable energy.

I mean, you’ve got basically $0 in electricity for, because of how much solar there is, plus the batteries are coming in and, and the transmission’s coming online. And I’m talking to some people about, uh, what these new developments look like. If you’re trying to develop some of these projects in the United States, you’re not gonna be able to do them.

There’s, there’s too many regulatory hurdles, and it seems like Australia has at least opened some of the doors to explore. Uh, people in America, the companies in Europe are gonna be watching Australia, I think in, in terms of where we go next. Because if Australia can pull off pretty much a renewable grid, which is where you’re headed, others will follow because it’s just a lower cost way of running a, running an electricity grid system.

Yeah. Now I need to perform my, um, regular role of being a Debbie Downer. Um, I, I think that there’s, there’s big challenges and it’s definitely not, um, a case of [00:06:00] the status quo now is good enough to carry us through to a hundred percent renewables. Um, there are some big, big problems that need to be solved.

Like, uh, solar plus batteries in Australia is, is going amazing and it’s gonna do a lot. It’s not gonna, it will be incredibly hard to get to, you know, a fully renewable grid that way. The problem with wind is at the moment, I mean, it’s getting more expensive to install wind now and we don’t only need to install new wind farms, we’ve also got existing wind farms that are retiring.

So we need to either extend those or we need to, um, you know, build new wind farms in their place. So we do need to get better there. And then I think that the new technologies, like, you know, I’m the blades person and the bigger blades are bigger problems like, like dramatically. I don’t think that your average, um, wind farm owner or wannabe wind farm owner is aware, like actually how many more problems there are with big blades compared to smaller ones and.

I think that, like I said earlier, I [00:07:00] think Australia’s a great place to get those technologies, um, you know, developed. But we, we need to do that. That’s not like a nice to have and oh, everything will be a little bit better, but if we can’t maintain our assets better and get more out of them, um, we also need improvements with manufacturing.

But it’s not really an o and m thing. I won’t talk too much about it. But yeah, I think that like we can’t be remotely complacent. Well, I think in, in Europe, uh, Thomas, you actually spent several months in Australia, and you’re obviously from Austria, so it’s an Austria Australian connection. Do you see the differences between the Austrian market, the German market, and what’s happening here in Australia?

What, what do you think of the comparison between the two? So, what I, what really was fascinating from was the speed of, um, improvements we see here in Australia. It. Um, just for me, wind industry in my young industry, sorry, was always rather slow in Europe and [00:08:00] like not really adopting. Um, and here, sorry.

For example, last year you asked the question how many. Of the audience to use sensors for shadow monitoring and no hand was raised right. It was zero silence. And uh, this year we even had a few percentage on, on sensors on the, on the cido. So you see only within a year like this gradually graduated, improvements are happening and I think that makes such a, um, speed in, in improvements and that will.

Close to the rescue again.

Thank you. And that, um, that will bring Australia to a big advantage. Um, especially I think overtaking, uh, at a certain point, and it would be great to see in five years from now, um, maybe Europeans, Austrians, uh, coming to Australia to. [00:09:00] To learn and not the other way around. Yeah, and, and especially with Yolanda working for the biggest energy company in Denmark, uh, in America, you see how Americans react to change and, and the reluctance to move forward on some of the things we talked about this week, which are, do seem to be moving a little bit quicker.

There is more an acceptance of CMS systems here. And on in the States, it seems like you have to really fight. A lot of times to get anybody to listen, to do something because it’s all, it’s financially driven in some aspects, but it’s sort of like, we don’t do that here, so we’re not gonna listen to it.

What’s been your experience being on a, this is your first time in Australia, what, what has been your experience this week and what have you learned? I was very pleasantly surprised by just the amount of collaboration that everybody really wants to have here and the openness to, to do so, and to learn from each [00:10:00] other, um, and to accept just, you know, if you’ve seen an issue and or someone else has seen an issue, then you can really learn from each other.

And it doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to silo yourself as much as, as you typically do in the United States. I mean, it is a different culture, right? And so it’s just. Honestly, hats off to, to Australians for, for being able to, to work with each other, so, so well, yeah. The discussions out at the lunchtime and the coffee area were uniquely different than what we generally will see in the United States.

And Matthew, you’ve been around a lot of that too, where it kinda gets a little clique. But here, I mean, obviously, I mean, not just human nature, but on some level I felt like, oh, there’s a lot of interaction happening and it’s really loud. So people are engaging with one another and trying to learn from one another, or at least connect.

And I, I think in a lot of times in Europe, there’s not a lot of the connection until the, the drinking starts, you know, at about 10. Uh, but. Uh, Matthew, did you see that too? [00:11:00] Like I was really pleasantly surprised. That was a good thing to see here. Yeah. And in my former life as a consultant, I dealt with, you know, construction, uh, road rail, you know, I mining a whole range of industries.

And, um, one of the reasons why I’ve stayed in wind is ’cause I, you know, I love the people, you know, I love you all. So, or, um, but no, I think, um, the. The collaboration, the willingness to talk, um, the willingness to share ideas. And I think, I think I’ve been super, super, super happy about the way the panels have run, you know, everyone’s willing to share.

Um, yeah, I’m, I’m just stoked. Yeah, Rosie, this is all your fault, honestly, because Rosie was always the, the contrary opinion. So I would say something and Rosie would feel obligated to say something as the opposite. But when, when we all started this discussion about, uh, a, a wind turbine conference, you had been to a bad wind turbine conference in Australia and I had been to a really bad one in the States and we were just, okay, that’s enough.

And the movement [00:12:00] toward, let’s get some information, let’s everybody interact with one another. Let’s, we will give all the presentations to people at the end of this so you can access data. You’re not spending a ton of money to come. That was a, a big part of the discussion, like, I’m spending $5,000 to listen to sales presentations for three days.

I don’t want to do that anymore. We try to avoid that in this conference. Hopefully, if you notice that and, and, and. I guess the conference board is up here right now. Are we gonna do Woma 2027? Are we gonna decide that today? Or. Yes, yes, the website is live.

Um, I also wanna take this opportunity to, um, thank the, the sponsors of the event. And I hope that you’ve noticed that it’s not like these aren’t the sponsors of normal events where they’re like, okay, we’ll give you a bunch of money and then we’re gonna stand up and talk at you for half an hour about our new product launch or whatever.

Like these sponsors haven’t, they haven’t got back [00:13:00] in the traditional way that you, you would with a kind of, um, event. So I’m really grateful for the very high quality sponsors that we’ve got. And, um, yeah, I just, I, I dunno if I’m allowed to share a little bit about the, the economics of this event. Um, if we didn’t have the sponsors tickets would cost twice as much.

So, um, that’s one thing. But then the other key thing that we. Really couldn’t do it without sponsors is that we didn’t, our event didn’t break even until about a week ago because everyone buys their tickets late. Um, so yeah, the, the, we would’ve been having heart attacks, um, months ago about our potential, you know, bankruptcy from running the event if it wasn’t for, um, yeah, the, the great sponsors.

So thanks to everybody that did that. Um, and everybody that attended consider buying a ticket earlier next time. Um, I, I’m the worst. I often buy my ticket the day of, of, of an event. So it’s, you know, like it’s a pot calling the kettle black. But, um, yeah, that’s just a bit of the, [00:14:00] the reality. And we have a number of poll questions.

Uh, let’s get producer Claire back there to throw ’em up on the screen. So while we’re doing that, we should really thank Claire. Claire has been amazing. Yeah. Thank you, Claire.

So the emojis are from Claire. Claire, clearly here. Uh, how do you feel about the, the current state of the wind industry?

Hopefully there’s more smiley faces after this week. Well, alright, we’re a hundred percent rosemary.

We had to put the one with the, yeah. And for me personally, um, I used to feel a lot more optimistic when I worked in design and manufacturing. And then when I come into operations, that like automatically makes you feel a bit more pessimistic. And then me specifically, like I only get involved when really bad things are happening.

And so sometimes for me, like it’s easy to think. [00:15:00] When technology is just not good enough and, you know, I need to find a new industry to move into. So, uh, it is good to talk, talk to other people and, you know, like bring my reality back to a kind of a midpoint. And I, I just like to say, I, I think, I mean maybe there’s been a bit of OE em bashing here maybe.

Um. Um, however, we need really strong OEMs, so I just wanna put a shout out to the OEMs and say, yeah, we absolutely need you. So just keep doing it. You will keep doing better, so thank you. Yeah, it’s a difficult industry to be in and we put a lot of demands on them and they, they’re pushing limits, so yeah, they’re gonna run into problems.

That’s fine. Let’s just find solutions for them. Alright, uh, next question, producer Claire. What is the best thing you learned at Woma?

This is not multiple choice. You can write whatever you want. Stealing passwords. [00:16:00] Did any of us learn anything? Unexpected

contracting? Oh yeah. Get the contract right? Oh yeah. Yeah. Dan was really good. Yeah, Dan was great about contracting, looking on the other side of that fence. Cybersecurity is not that big of an issue in Australia. That’s some big thing in Europe, so yeah, it is. I was surprised by the environmental factor in Australia.

I was surprised about the birds. Yeah. Everyone who wasn’t in the birds workshop yesterday, Alan was freaking out about, about how Australian wind farms have to manage birds and um, you have to freeze a bird for 12 months. I don’t, where do you have to freeze it for a bird? I don’t know. But that, it just is a little odd, I would say.

Yeah.

All right, Rosemary, you gotta take away Rosemary’s phone. Alan’s personality test. Yeah, there we go. That was not me. Wind farm toilets was a good one. Thank you, Liz, for, for raising that. [00:17:00] Yeah, I know when I worked in, um, Europe and Canadian wind farms, I would have to strategize my liquid intake for the day.

Balancing out tea will help keep me warm, but on the other hand.

Did everybody meet up with someone who had a solution? That was part of the goal here is to put people with solutions in the room with people with problems and let you all sort it out. So hopefully that was one of the things that happened this week. Or if you haven’t connected here, be able to connect with over LinkedIn or over coffee later.

And the networking on the app and networking page on the website. Right. So you can actually use that now that’s all live. Yeah. So you can, you can connect through there if you’ve selected to. To keep your contact information open. Yep. You can connect through there so it’s easy to, if you need somebody to find my or Matthew’s email, you can just find it right there and we’ll upload the presentations, as you said.

Right. The presentations we uploaded. But you have to select into that, Matthew, is that right? Also, the speakers [00:18:00] have to approve them as well. Right. And the, and all the speakers, you know who you are. Can let us know if we can use your slide decks to public size them. I didn’t see anything there that looked highly classified, so I think that would be fine.

Alright. This is really interesting. Convince OEMs to install better pitch bearings. That’s very true. Okay, thanks you for that. Claire, what’s the next one?

What do you wish you learned more about? So Matthew did a tour before the conference several months ago. And, and went to a lot of the operators and said, what would you like to hear about? So the things that were, uh, the seminar or the different workshops and all that were the result of talking to each of the operators about what you would like to see.

So hopefully we covered most of them. Uh, obvious There. There’s some new things. Gear boxes. Yeah. I figured that one was coming. Tower retrofits. Okay. Good, good, [00:19:00] good. ISPs? Yeah. Life extension. Yeah. A lot of life extension. I agree. Well, we’re gonna run into that to the United States also. Asbestos. I’ve read some things about that in Australia.

Okay. Which leading protection work by name. I do, I do have, well, lemme see. I do know that answer, but you’re gonna have to talk to Rosemary to get the, the key to the vault there. I I also think that you can’t assume that it’s gonna work in Australia. I think that, that like really seriously, I, I wouldn’t, um.

I wouldn’t replace my entire wind farms leading edge protection based on what worked well in Europe and America. So, um, I would highly suggest, um, getting in touch with me and or bigger to get involved in a trial if you, that’s a problem for you. Yeah, definitely get involved in the trial. Uh, more data is better and if you do join that trial, you will have the keys to the castle.

They will tell you how all the other pro uh, blades went. Uh, trainings and [00:20:00] skills, obviously that’s a, that’s a international one. When does ROI really happen? Yeah. Yep. We hear that quite a bit. Needs have proven good products for leading edge erosion. Yep. Okay. Yeah. So the que I guess one of the questions is, is that we did not on purpose, did not have any vendor things.

I haven’t mentioned my product once this week. I, because I don’t want to, you know, that’s not the point of this conference, but should we. I don’t know. I mean, that’s a, should we have people standing up and I don’t know if it’s standing out there, but able to, to trial things. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree with what.

I, I don’t, I don’t want that. Oh, yeah. No, I don’t want that. But it’s not my conference. Right. It’s, it’s everybody who c comes and wants to participate. What do you wanna see? Do you wanna see 10 leading edge products out in the hallway or, I didn’t mind that people were putting like stickers and like little knickknacks out on [00:21:00] tables.

That was fun. Rosemary’s got a, a satchel full of them. Alright, Claire, is that the last one? There’s one more. All right. Hang on for one more. What’s your biggest takeaway from Woma? That you’re gonna buy your tickets early for WMA 2027, hopefully, and you’re gonna sponsor. I had a lot of people come up to me and say they would like to sponsor next year.

And that’s wonderful. That will really keep the, the cost down because we’re not making anything off of this. I’m losing money to be here, which is totally fine ’cause I think this is a noble effort. Uh, but we will keep the cost as low as we can. We have an upgraded venue from last year. If you attend last year we were at the library, which was also a very nice facility, but this is just another level.

Mm. Um, and the website has the ability to register interest in sponsorship. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve already got, uh, Jeremy’s already shook my hand. He’s already committed. Yeah. [00:22:00] Uh, I think we’ll have a lot of three pizzas on, on sponsorship for next year, and that’s good. Uh, that tells you there’s some value to be here and, and, uh, connect stickers, Rosemary stickers.

There you go.

I like whoever put calories up there. That’s funny. Yeah. You know the thing about, uh, this city is you can eat and it’s so dang good. You can’t do that in the states. You can’t just walk around in a random. Downtown like Detroit, Chicago. There are places you can eat there, but every place you walk into in this city is really good food.

It’s crazy. Yeah. It’s, it’s uh, sort of addictive. I’m gonna have to go home on Saturday or not gonna fit in my seat. Um, alright. This is great. Yeah. We really love, um, constructive feedback. I think we’re all, or at least. Vast majority of us are engineers. We like to know about problems and fix them. So, um, most of us can’t have our feelings hurt easily.

So, you [00:23:00] know, be very, very direct with your feedback. And, um, yeah, I mean the event should be different every year, right? Like, we don’t wanna do the exact same thing every year, so, um, it will change. Yeah. Yeah. And there is a survey going out as well, so Georgina will send out a survey. All right. So those surveys go to who?

Matthew, are they going to you or are they going to all attendees and go? I think it goes back to Georgina, but we’ll, okay. Yeah. Great. So if you do get a, a form to fill out, please fill it out. That helps us for next year. Are we gonna be back in the same city? I say Yes. Yes. Yeah, this place is great. Sydney is also lovely.

I spent an hour there at the airport. It was quite nice, but it was long enough. As I learned from people from Melbourne that Sydney is not their favorite place to go. So I guess we’re, we’re here next year. Is there anything else we need to talk about? Um, no. I mean, I’ve just been, uh, my favorite thing about this event is like the, the size of it and that people, uh, like very closely related in what we’re interested in that.

It’s not like a, [00:24:00] you can put any two random people together and then we’ll have an interesting conversation. So I’ve really enjoyed all of the, you know, dozens of conversations that I’ve had this week. And, um, yeah. So thank you everybody for showing up with a open and collaborative, um, yeah. Frame of mind.

It’s, yeah, couldn’t be done without everybody here. We do have a little bit of an award ceremony here for Rosemary, so we actually put together. A collage of videos over the last, um, five years. Uh, this is news to me. What? Yeah. Surprise. All right. Let it roll. Claire.

Champion Rosie Barnes is here. Everybody.

Climate change is a problem that our politicians don’t seem to be trying. Particularly hard to solve. This used to frustrate me until I realized that as an engineer, I have the power to [00:25:00] change the world, and unlike some politicians, I choose to use my powers for good.

So I made a gingerbread wind turbine, I mean, a functional gingerbread, wind turbine, functional and edible. Everything except for the generator is edible. Alan, what were some of your takeaways from our talk with, uh, with Rosie? Well, I just like the way she thinks she thinks in terms of systems, not in terms of components.

And I, I think that’s a, for an engineer is a good way to think about bigger problems. On today’s episode, we’ve got, well, some exciting news. Number one. Rosemary, uh, Barnes will be joining us here today as our co our new co-host. Yeah, thanks. Thanks so much for having me. So, you know, one wind turbine with, um, wooden 80 meter long wooden blades.

Yeah. Like, that’s so cool. What a great engineering challenge or, you know, craftsmanship challenge, um, there, but, you know, I’d like to see one [00:26:00]wooden wind turbine blade, but not, not more than that. It’s a, it’s a cool, it’s a cool novelty. And then burn it, right? If you burn it, then you’ll catch the carbon. We need someone within the Australian wind industry to start up a, a better conference.

Um, you know, it should be allowing you to kind of put your finger on the pulse and figure out, you know, what, what’s the vibe of wind energy in Australia at the moment? Um, what are the big problems people are having and then, you know, some potential solutions, some people talking about things that are coming up that you might not have heard about yet.

I just think that it’s much easier to get a good value conference from a, like a, a small organization that is really dedicated to the, um, topic of the, of the conference. So as part of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast, Rosemary,

the YouTube ci, these little gold plaques. So this is actually, this is your first gold plaque, but you have two [00:27:00] silver plaques also. ’cause engineering with Rosie reached a 100,000 subscribers. Uh, the uptime also reached a hundred thousand subscribers a while ago, but we reached 1 million. This is the first time I, we’ve been in person, but I could actually hand you this award.

So congratulations Zi. Very, very well done.

Thank you. This is treasured and, um. Yeah, added in. Nothing like that has ever happened to me before, so I’m bit overwhelmed. I, I’m interested to know, we got that Wheel of Fortune footage from, ’cause I thought that was lost. Lost forever. It’s over. It’s on YouTube. Sadly. It is. It’s 24. All the episodes Rosemary competed in the Wheel of Fortune.

She was on four times. Six times. Six times. Sorry. There’s only four available on the internet. You may have white scrub tube. I wanna massaging Lazy Boy.

Is that your husband? He made me get rid of it. He is like, that thing is hideous. And [00:28:00] it was, yeah. Thank, thank you so much. And I mean, yeah, this is the, the uptime wind energy. Um. Yeah, podcast achievement. It’s, um, it’s crazy how, how popular that, um, it’s in insanely popular since we crossed the 1 million mark that was a while ago.

We’re up to 1.6 million right now. We’ll cross 2 million this year. I know it’s, it’s clear Claire’s reason. It mostly clear and it honestly is. Uh, but wind energy is a big part of the energy future, and as I’m realizing now, uh, when you start to reach out to people, you realize how important it is for the planet and for individual countries that wind energy is part of their electricity grid.

So the, the information we exchange here this week is very valuable and reach out to others. I think that’s part of this wind industry and Matthew’s pointed out many times, is that we share. So unlike other places, uh. Wind energy likes to work together. And that’s great to hear and it’s great to participate in.

So I wanna thank everybody here for attending, uh, this conference. Thank you to all the sponsors. Uh, you [00:29:00] made this thing possible. Uh, as Matthew has pointed out, we’ll be at WMA 2027. The website is live. So, uh, listen to Rosie. Please register now. Uh, and uh, yeah. Thank you so much for, for being with us. And we’ll see you in February right here.

Thank you.

WOMA 2026: Where Will Australian Wind Be in Five Years?

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The Uptime Wind Energy podcast, brought to you by StrikeTape. Protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit striketape.com. And now your hosts

Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host, Allen Hall, and I’m here with Rosemary Barnes, who is recovering from a very serious illness, Matthew Stead, who has been healthy pretty much all the Australian winter, and Yolanda Padron in sunny, hot Austin, Texas. Welcome, Rosemary

Rosemary Barnes: Thank you. I am recovering from man flu, and I say man flu because it’s just a cold, but I’m complaining a lot about it.

Allen Hall: there’s gonna be a new name for Siemens Gamesa. So it was Siemens and then Gamesa’s a separate company. They merged. Siemens Energy, uh, broke off from Siemens AG. So [00:01:00] that’s a very well-known name, Siemens. It’s– Everybody knows Siemens at this point around the world.

And the, the one family had, as a company, had s- label on everything, right? So it’s, uh, Werner von Siemens started it 150 years ago. It’s been a long time since Siemens was started, but it’s everywhere. It’s on turbines, transformers, and power plants around the world, and now they’re changing their name, right?

So when Siemens Energy broke off from Siemens AG, they, they had a limited time they could use that name, so they have rebranding themselves or are about to rebrand themselves, and I wanna pronounce this right, Omterra. O-M-T-E-R-R-A. Now, we did a little research on this, and I think it’s Latin for all of the world.

It’s kind of a conjoined, uh, set of words, Latin words, kind of a, a schmear in a sense. So, uh, so the company that, you [00:02:00] know, that spun off in w- roughly 2020, if I remember this right, Matthew, does that sound right? It was roughly 2020 when Siemens Energy was established on its own. Uh, they’re gonna be changing their name to Omterra.

So instead of seeing, seeing Siemens Gamesa publications or Siemens Gamesa wind turbines, I guess they’re gonna have this new name, Omterra. What do we all think?

Matthew Stead: I think it’s great. I think, and if you go back to, you know, GE Vernova, um, I, I thought Vernova was a bit weird for a while, but now it just rolls off the tongue and easy. It just makes so much sense. Um, so I’m, I’m, I’m for it. I, I like it. I’ve already… You know, can already say it. It took a lot longer to say Vernova than it’s taking to say

Terra.

Rosemary Barnes: I think that it– But it’s not Vernova, it’s GE Vernova, right? So everyone knows what it is. Whereas my understanding is it’s not Siemens Omtera, it’s just Omtera, which makes it sound like a new budget kind of [00:03:00] brandless, history-less, uh, company. So that’s… Yeah, I’m no

branding expert, but I think that, uh, like they, they must have not been able to use the word Siemens at all, um, because otherwise you surely would, because it has a very…

Outside of, you know, their blade issues and bearing issues of a couple of years ago, they do have a, like a solid engineering reputation across many fields, so you wouldn’t probably intentionally divorce yourself entirely from that. So, um, yeah, I, I think it will take some getting used to for me

Matthew Stead: but everyone remembers. I mean, it’s not like– The people in the wind industry know their heritage, they know their history, so I don’t think it matters. I mean, you know, you know, they, they purchase the Senvion, you know, technologies or, you know, licenses in Europe. You know, y- y- you don’t forget these things, so I don’t think it matters.

I think it’s just a, it’s a color, it’s a, it’s a label

Yolanda Padron: I think it’ll be fine. I just think that there will be a little [00:04:00] bit of confusion down the line as with everything, right? Like I’ve, I’ve been on the side of conversations where I have to explain like Siemens versus like SGRE on paper and it’s like, oh, it’s– this is why th- there was that paper trail, uh, because people would think it was an absolutely different thing.

Um, so I, I can totally see those conversations coming, coming to play in the future where someone thinks that Ontier is a completely different entity that maybe they changed OEMs or something, um, for a site. But nothing a little history lesson won’t fix, I guess.

Matthew Stead: You just want people talking about you

Rosemary Barnes: Name change every year

Allen Hall: Change your name every year. Well, that’s, that’s one way to approach it. I w- always wonder what the boardroom looks like and sounds like when this discussion is going on, because Siemens, Siemens Energy is a big company, and there had to be outsourcing of this to probably several marketing firms, mostly [00:05:00] in Germany, I’m guessing.

And they came back with a bunch of pitches, and eventually they picked one. But boardrooms are probably not the place to pick a name. And I always think like, “Oh, you just had such a opportunity to do something really cool or really impressive.”

Allen Hall: Well, we’ll see how it goes with Omterra. The, it’s gonna be, I’m sure, a huge marketing effort, and you’ll probably see commercials for it during the Super Bowl.

Developers are [00:06:00] eyeing Britain’s next big renewables auction and have been waiting to learn the rules and most importantly, the price. Well, this week the UK government delivered both. It confirmed a package of changes to the CFD scheme ahead of allocation round eight, aimed at simplifying the process and keeping good projects from being tripped up by some paperwork.

So AR7 was super successful, and they’re hopefully gonna have a, a great allocation round eight. Uh, unchanged from last round, here are some pieces to it. AR7 brought in 15 gigawatts of, of new capacity, uh, well below the ceilings, and the government is betting that that’s stability from AR7’s gonna exist for AR8, so they’re keeping the pricing limits the same.

And let me give you some of the numbers here. So everything’s in 2024 prices, just so we have a baseline here. It, 113 pounds per megawatt hour [00:07:00] for fixed bottom offshore wind, 271 pounds for floating offshore wind. That’s, uh, pounds per megawatt. And then 92 pounds per megawatt for onshore wind, and s- 75 pounds per megawatt for solar. So 271 pounds per megawatt hour in 2044 dollars is, you know, you’re probably talking, what, 290 pounds per megawatt hour. That’s a really good strike price or ceiling to allow, uh, some more floating wind into the UK waters

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Well, the UK have this newly signed agreement with Japan, right, to, to progress development of that technology. I feel like I, I haven’t looked up any numbers to back this up, but I feel like the gap between fixed bottom and floating is narrowing. It’s barely more than double now, which, um, yeah, I think is not that bad considering how little development there has been for floating offshore wind compared to fixed bottom.

So [00:08:00] yeah, I think that it is an interesting technology to develop. I, I know with the, um, auction rounds and ’cause it’s a government thing, it’s easy to think, “Oh, why are you spending any money on anything other than the cheapest one?” Because y- you know, like, it, it feels weird that the government would play, you know, when they’re purchasing power for their grid, that they would do any more than trying to just get, you know, bulk power at the cheapest price possible whilst ensuring, you know, reliability.

Um, but in the previous or the previous, the one– last one or the one before that, they had quite a few tidal projects announced that certainly, you know, an expensive and not mature technology. But I think that you can’t say the same thing about floating offshore wind. I think that it is on a, like a good, a good development trajectory, and there are certainly places on Earth where floating offshore is one of the most appealing technologies.

You know, if you think of through to 2030s, 2040s, there’s plenty of places where, um, you know, slightly higher [00:09:00] price paid for floating offshore wind will still be worth it because they have so few other options available. So it makes sense as an industry to in- invest in capabilities there.

Matthew Stead: think it’s a really interesting method. It seems to be really successful, the contract for di-difference approach. So, um, I’m, I’m surprised that it’s not adopted more widely, um, in other locations,

Rosemary Barnes: it is around a bit.

I would like to see it, like, in, in Australia, we are, we are developing some new wind projects, but not as fast as we need to, to, you know, hit our upcoming targets. And I think, like, while the government is doing some things to help move or help incentivize developers, it’s not working that well, and maybe CFD would be a, you know, a bit of a better way to, like, just actually guarantee that these projects are gonna go ahead.

Allen Hall: Australia has a shipping problem. there’s been a concern at state-owned transport hubs are becoming less supportive of [00:10:00] wind energy projects with ACEN Renewables saying that they will now have to truck a large transformer from a wind project or for a wind project in northern New South Wales from the Port of Adelaide.

That’s not necessarily close. And h- they also said that the Port of Brisbane has refused to accept passage of some big transformers for a solar farm. also there’s some, uh, something about blades not being able to be accepted in certain ports. Like some of the, uh, Australian state-managed or state-owned ports are not accepting renewables.

Rosemary Barnes: I think

also that blades in Queensland can only be transported to site like one per day with a full police escort or something. It’s wild to

me ’cause, you know, like I lived in, in Denmark for so long and there were blades going up and down just the normal highway every single day, multiple like, uh, and three– they would go in sets of threes for obvious reasons.

Um, yeah, but the, the, the [00:11:00] Queensland government changed like a, a year ago or, or so, and it changed to a very anti-renewables government and they just threw all of the state’s renewable plans in the bin,

Allen Hall: such a recent change that when they, at least the news articles I’ve seen about it, I’ve only seen a handful, that they have, um, like last year some big transformers, like really difficult to move items have come through those ports and they’re just not letting them through now. How does that work?

If you have a, a, a legal right to build a wind farm or a solar farm or, or substation or whatever’s going on there, how do they reconcile not allowing those components to come through a port? In what world does that make sense?

Matthew Stead: I mean, most of the ports are– yeah, most of the ports are privatized, so it’s up to the individual commercial entity that’s running the port, I would, I would imagine. So it’s beyond the control of the government, would be my first guess.

Yolanda Padron: it seems like it’s an, a federal sort of thing that would give permits.

Matthew Stead: No, I mean, I’ve done a bit of work in the Port of Melbourne and, [00:12:00] um, it’s facilitated by the government, uh, state government, not federal, and but the ports are largely privatized.

Rosemary Barnes: I just pulled up an article and it says that it’s state-owned transport hubs are becoming

less supportive of wind energy projects. Um, yeah, and that’s the reason for why they’ll have to get that transformer in northern New South Wales, so very close to Queensland. They have to go from Adelaide, where you live, Matt, all the way through South Australia, maybe Victoria, New South Wales, and then, yeah, up to nearly the border.

Allen Hall: Is that just a temporary blip that the next election cycle it’ll revert back or is this something that’s more long term?

Rosemary Barnes: uh, it’s not obvious that it’s gonna flip straight back, that’s for sure

Allen Hall: [00:13:00] for years, the race in wind has run mostly in one direction: bigger and bigger blades, bigger towers, bigger machines.

And now a chief engineer f- at one of China’s largest turbine makers says it’s time to pump the brakes. Bo Juul Petersen, uh, Goldwind’s chief engineer in Denmark, argues that scaling turbines up no longer makes economic sense. So it’s not an engineering question, it’s an economic question. His reasoning rests on a simple rule of geometry, the square cube r- law, which says that as a turbine grows, its materials and costs climb faster than the rotor area that earns the revenue.

Past a certain point, he says, bigger simply costs more than it makes. Have we crossed that threshold yet? Is 20 megawatts that, [00:14:00] uh, pivot point where it doesn’t make any more sense to make a larger turbine?

Matthew Stead: didn’t we have problems when we went from three to six?

Allen Hall: One to two.

Matthew Stead: I, I, I think, uh, I think it’s good that someone’s actually coming out and saying this

Yolanda Padron: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Rosie’s on the podcast.

Rosemary Barnes: yeah, ex-excuse me, this is one of my topics of obsession that I constantly carry on about. I made a whole, a whole video about it with, um, equations to back up my opinions about scaling, um, and a very nifty tug of war metaphor between economic factors that favor big wind turbines and economic fav- factors that favor small ones.

And I think that we’re always a little bit ahead of, of what the right, the right balance is between those. So, you know, the benefits from having bigger turbines are that, um, you have fewer electrical connections, for offshore especially, that means less subsea cables and, um, yeah, just like much faster Faster construction of all that, you [00:15:00] know, less, uh, substructures and less, less of everything to install, less of everything to maintain as well.

You know, it doesn’t take so much longer to get up and do your annual maintenance checks of a big turbine compared to a small one. Like, it takes longer, but not, not that much longer. Um, but then all of the structural factors favor smaller turbines over bigger ones. blades especially, as they get longer, you get so many more problems in O&M, but they don’t show up on the developer’s spreadsheet, you know. The spreadsheet that you’re using to decide, um, your f- your final investment decision, it, it doesn’t, it doesn’t know that you’re gonna have a whole bunch of blade issues.

It doesn’t wanna know and so I think that that’s one factor that has pushed us past the economic point of where wind turbine size should be. And I think the other thing is prestige. I know that when I worked at LM, you know, we had the longest blade in the world.

It was 88 meters, was our first, um, world record that we set while I was working there. They’d had many before that. We had– They [00:16:00] had a, like, one-to-one scale printout of it that they took to WindEurope or WindHamburg, um, that everyone stood in front of, and then they lost it to somebody, and then they got it back again with the blade for the Halieade-X.

And we all know how well that went to, you know, have the world’s longest blade. Y- you know, it wasn’t so easy to make it, turned out. It’s very easy to announce and not so easy to make, um, with reliable quality. And now we’ve got all these Chinese companies, especially MingYang, is constantly announcing the world’s biggest something.

Um, don’t sell so many of them, but it’s not the point, isn’t to sell them, it’s to have the prestige of making the world’s biggest something.

Allen Hall: Yeah, what would be the technology breakthrough that would allow it to be more stable at a 20 or 25 megawatt? Because right now I’m, I’m seeing 1% improvement here and there, not 5%, 10%.

Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, I mean, 1% improvement will eventually add up to what, what you need. Maybe it’s in

20 years’ time, not 10 years’ time. But y- you know, like you can imagine anything. maybe [00:17:00] they start somehow, like aero and automotive manufacturing technologies get cheap enough that we can start making wind turbine blades with all prepregs instead of y- you know, um, you know, dry fabric and infusion.

For example, maybe 3D printing gets cheap enough that you can make your whole, whole blade from an additive process. Like a- anything like that. But it can also be other things like maybe the cost of subsea cables in- increases like a whole lot, and then if, you know, like things on one side getting more expensive can make it more worthwhile to save hard problems somewhere else. So that’s why I say it’s like a, it’s a, a ve- it’s a multivariable optimization problem that changes every time you have a…

Like for every project to project from year to year, it’s always gonna be slightly different. So I don’t think it’s wise to definitively say 20 megawatts is the threshold that we should never cross. Like I, I don’t agree with that.

Allen Hall: It’s one of those arguments, I think, about [00:18:00] any sort of technology about where the endpoint is. There’s too many variables to predict it. I always point to aviation in which older airplanes will hang around and hang around and hang around until the fuel price goes up enough where it doesn’t make sense to operate them.

So they will fly an airplane un-until they can no longer structurally do it. But if the price of oil shoots up and the price of aviation fuel bumps up, those airplanes get parked, and then they’re buying the new airplane with a more efficient engine. It’s a similar thing, I think. There’s just– You can’t tell where the technology’s gonna go or what the economic impacts of any part of that business will force you to do something different.

So it’s gonna be higher than 20 megawatts, guarantee you that.

Yolanda Padron: Well, it’s one of those things too, right? Where if we’re repeating the, the same blade type and we’re getting smarter about operating that same blade type, then the economic cost goes down, [00:19:00] right? Like, eventually. ‘Cause then you’re not just experimenting on every new thing or having to take all of the, the funding into tr- specializing techs or getting very specialized techs onto your site and finding a new– kind of the wheel every so often. [00:20:00] So speaking of larger wind turbines, evidently we’ve been doing this all wrong, that we’ve had the calculations for the, uh, Betz limit has been off, and, uh, a group of MIT engineers, I guess, uh, have, have made a breakthrough.

Allen Hall: So basically every wind turbine that is spinning today is based on some fundamentals, uh, math, empirical data in, in some level, but on formulas that have led us to design the wind turbines and that core formula called the momentum theory. And if you hear blade designers who hang around blade designers, which I don’t necessarily recommend, but if you do hang around blade designers, they, they’ll say the momentum theory, momentum theory, like, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it.”

It, it, the– MIT is saying it breaks down exactly at the operating point where modern turbines try to live. Um, so for a century the fix [00:21:00] was a patchwork of corrections and useful, but with no real theory behind them. Now, a team at MIT said it has rebuilt the math from first principles, creating what they call a unified momentum model. It even nudges at the famous Betz limit, the century-old ceiling on how much energy a rotor can capture, and it bumps it up by a few percentage points, and that would be the first uptick to the Betz limit in over 100 years. All right, Rosemary, as our official Betz limit expert, does this make any sense?

Have the MIT folk something new?

Rosemary Barnes: a wind turbine blade, its aerodynamics are just the same aerodynamics as what keeps an airplane in the sky, right? It’s, it’s all the… It’s just an airfoil. It’s just facing a wind speed, um, you know, a local wind speed. It’s complicated by the fact that [00:22:00] a wind turbine blade is also rotating, so the wind speed is different along the whole span, and that’s, uh– and so is the flow angle, and that’s why blades are twisted and tapered.

Um, but you know, essentially when you wanna figure out how much energy, uh, a wind turbine is gonna generate or you wanna design the blade so that it optimizes that amount, you’re just slicing it up into a whole bunch of little bits of 2D flow, exactly the same as an, an airplane. So if it doesn’t work for wind turbines, then it shouldn’t work for airplanes either.

So that’s one fundamental thing. And also at Betz limit, it’s not like it’s not driving design. It’s more like if you, if your design exceeds the Betz limit for a, um, a horizontal axis wind turbine, then you– it’s like a sanity check that you’ve done something wrong. Uh, that’s, that’s what I would say you would mostly use it for.

Um, but what I don’t understand, and maybe Alan, presumably you did read the, read the research or at least the press [00:23:00] release. Are they arguing that y- um, like the tips of a wind turbine blade are rotating, are moving fast enough that it’s approaching transonic flow? ‘

Allen Hall: Yeah, it’s a rental number thing.

Rosemary Barnes: there’s different types of aerodynamic equations depending on how fast the, airfoil’s moving.

And my understanding is transonic is like 0.8 Mach, um, 0.8, which is 274 meters a second, which is more than double what, um, the fastest tip speeds are currently. So I would think that you’re not quite approaching that yet. They’re– It’s not like a cutoff that, you know, all of a sudden at that exact, exact speed the air behaves totally differently.

But, um, y- yeah, like it seems far enough away that it’s not that relevant. But is that what they’re getting

at or, or is it something different?

Allen Hall: I like doing sanity checks when I read things from MIT. So what blade [00:24:00] manufacturers and/or wind turbine OEM has designed a set of blades and go, “Oh my gosh, we’re getting more energy than what we calculated,” and not thought to themselves, “Huh, maybe we should look into that”? It’s, it’s, it’s hilarious almost that all the engineers working in wind for 100 years wouldn’t have stumbled across this, where the turbine produces more power than the Betz limit would say it would.

Y-

Rosemary Barnes: yeah, as many people have commented on, you know, any one of my YouTube videos about wind turbine aerodynamics, if they would just put more blades in there, then, you know, less wind would just fly through without ever being, um, y- without ever hitting a blade.

So, you know, like obviously wind turbine, uh, blade aerodynamics people are stupid because if they weren’t, then they would see that you just put more blades in and you get more, twice as many blades, twice as much energy and w- What about three times as many blades? Three times as much energy.

And I [00:25:00] didn’t even go to MIT and that’s just, you know, like just

brilliant

Allen Hall: Obvious

Rosemary Barnes: off the top of my head here.

Allen Hall: it’s sort of ludicrous, honestly, and I see these things in wind occasionally. I see it more often in other areas, particularly aerospace, where, where you just have to go, “What are we spending time on?

Really? We’re working on this? On a fraction of a percentage point that we may have a slight error in?” Like, it does not matter. What are you gonna do with that?

Rosemary Barnes: there’s two issues. One is that the person writing up the press release is not the person that did the research, and they will always blow it up to be much more groundbreaking than the engineers who actually worked on it probably think it is.

So, the, like, I think you have to, like, reserve your criticism of the work and try and criticize the press release. And then the second error that I commonly see is that people don’t have an un- good understanding of a status quo. So they think that they have smashed the status quo, but really it’s more to do with them not understanding the status quo than it is through [00:26:00] some legitimate, like, massive im- improvement.

So it could well be that this is all very good and correct work, just with limited practical implication. That would be my most expected, um, from this.

Allen Hall: Rosemary, how many times a month do you get queries about wind turbine improvements that are just physically impossible?

Rosemary Barnes: Oh, I mean, if I read all of the comments on my YouTube channel, then probably quite, quite frequently. But, um, yeah, the most common one is just people thinking you can just add more blades and get a proportional increase in, um, in energy, you won’t get more power from adding more blades if that’s the only thing that you do, because in a well-designed wind turbine, which modern ones are, every, e- every air molecule that goes through the rotor disc is gonna interact with the, um, with, with a blade.

That’s how it’s, it’s designed. The blades are moving really fast, and so every molecule doesn’t get hit, but, you know, every, every molecule is affected and has some energy extracted from it. Um, then the other thing is people [00:27:00]who think if you reduce drag, like if you can come up with a lower drag airfoil or a higher lift airfoil, then you think, they think that that relates to more energy proportionally.

So they’re like, “Oh, this airfoil has twice as much lift, so it’s gonna be twice as much power.” It’s like, actually, you know, wind turbine designers are aware of the full range of, you know, airfoils that are available, including high lift ones, and they’re not using it because, you know, the same reason the airplane wings aren’t just, you know, like the highest, highest lift airfoil.

Y- you know, it’s more of a lift to drag ratio type thing, and that’s true for wind turbine blades as well, but also there’s structural considerations probably more so in a wind turbine blade than there are in, um, in airplane wings. So, you know, there’s some sacrifices made for that. Um, yeah, but those are the two, two main families of, of mistakes that I’d say people make.

Allen Hall: So

Rosemary Barnes: Matt

Allen Hall: up to his hand up for

to MIT media representatives

Matthew Stead: uh,

I had a couple of sort of quick and simple points. The first of all, uh, I’m actually a graduate of [00:28:00] MIT. I’ve graduated from, uh, from a course at MIT. Um, so that’s the first thing. Um, not in engineering. Um, the next one is like, so what? I mean, we can’t even reliably measure, um, you know, AEP the other one is all models are wrong.

Yolanda Padron: But not just wind

Matthew Stead: the world is not perfect. All models are wrong, so trying to improve something that’s wrong, you know, might help a little bit, but does it really matter?

Rosemary Barnes: But it is also the job of academics to improve these models. So there’s nothing wrong with MIT spending a lot of energy to, um, you know, improve on an incorrect model with another incorrect model. Uh, if it’s more useful, that’s great, and even if it’s not, like isn’t that the job of

Matthew Stead: yeah.

Matthew Stead: you should add to where it has the most impact on humanity. You should actually put the effort into areas that have a greater impact on pushing the boundary. You know, pushing small boundaries does not help the world

Allen Hall: Matthew is an MIT graduate, [00:29:00] the one thing that Matthew brings to the table is real-world experience. And that if you shelter yourself inside a laboratory at MIT, and I understand why you would do that, because I’m sure it’s a very pleasant place to work, and there’s a lot of benefits to that.

However, the way that MIT used to work back in the day, and not everything was roses then, but oh, okay, y- that people had industry experience. They had a knowledge of what was going on on the ground, and they were engineers, and they realized that formulas and reality don’t always align. And maybe we lost that somewhere in the ’80s and, or ’90s, but it does continue to be a problem, where back to Matthew’s point, if you’re going to use that amount of brain energy, put it to something that can help the world.

This isn’t necessarily helping the world That wraps up another episode of the Uptime: Wind Energy podcast. If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, and I’m sure that it will, we’d love to hear from [00:30:00] you. Reach out to us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode.

So for Yolonda, Rosemary, and Matthew, I’m Allen Hall, and we’ll see you here next week on the Uptime: Wind Energy podcast.