Weather Guard Lightning Tech

EOLOGIX-PING Lightning Sensors Join SkySpecs Horizon
Allen and Joel are joined by Matthew Stead, Chief Product Officer and Co-founder of EOLIGIX-PING, at the SkySpecs Customer Forum 2025. They discuss the biggest takeaways from the forum, new developments at EOLOGIX-PING, and the upcoming Wind Energy O&M Australia event.
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Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining Light on Wind Energy’s brightest innovators. This is the Progress Powering Tomorrow.
Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host, Alan Hall, and I’m with Joel Saxon. And we are in Ann Arbor, Michigan with Matthew Stead, chief Product Officer. And co-founder of eLog Ping and he is traveled all the way from Australia to be here in Ann Arbor, Michigan. We are at the Skys Specs customer Forum 2025.
We’ve been spending the last couple of days with most of the operators in the United States, uh, learning about what issues they are having and how they’re using Skys specs to reduce their overall operational costs. Boy, Matthew, it, it is been a really interesting couple of days hearing where customers are struggling and where they are trying to attack lost revenue.
Matthew Stead: Yeah, I think it’s [00:01:00] been amazing. I’m so pleased to be here. And, you know, it was great to get the invitation, uh, from Skyspace. I, I think, um, really the things that I’ve been hearing is the data and pulling data together, uh, to getting those insights as to what’s going wrong and then, and then fixing it and getting the money back.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. Yeah. The, the big thing here, we’re talking about the one big beautiful build, and it’s followed on the industry.
Matthew Stead: Yeah.
Joel Saxum: Right. So the, the theme of the event is prevent, perform, or prevent, prevent, predict, perform, I’m gonna get it wrong again.
Allen Hall: There’s three Ps,
Joel Saxum: three very important ps. But what we’re looking at is, is how, how can digitalization, how can the next generation of op intelligent asset management change the way we do things?
Because you can’t do things reactively like we were in the past anymore.
Matthew Stead: Yeah,
Joel Saxum: right. Even when budgets were tight before they’re gonna get even tighter. We’re gonna, and we’re gonna have to make sure that these assets are running. And that’s where like your smarter, smarter, smarter, smarter, right? Yeah.
Your solutions come into play. The Skys specs team. The, the, the conversations in the sessions. The [00:02:00] conversations around the sessions, the conversations over a beer.
Matthew Stead: Yeah. Yeah.
Joel Saxum: They have all been about the same concepts, right? About how can we do this better, more efficiently. And one of the reasons I really like events.
Like this is, like you said, Allen, you have all these operators. Yeah. You have all of these engine. It’s a, it’s a room full of 50 engineers that probably control man, 60 to 70% of the
Allen Hall: Oh yeah.
Matthew Stead: The US
Joel Saxum: fleet. In the US fleet. Right. So you have so much knowledge, so much sharing, and it’s an open forum. You have people p piping up, Hey, we use this strategy.
Hey, we do this. I heard some really cool things this week.
Matthew Stead: Yeah, I, I, at breakfast this morning, I was sitting to two guys, one from Canada, one from the US and they were talking about Repowering. One guy’s got GE turbines. He didn’t know that he could put a vestas in a cell on a G turbine.
Joel Saxum: Yeah.
Matthew Stead: And so these guys have exchanged details.
Ban.
Joel Saxum: Yeah.
Matthew Stead: That was beautiful to watch together.
Allen Hall: Well, yeah, we’ve, Joel and I have been hosting a number of panels, uh, during the Sky Specs event. If [00:03:00] those have been eyeopening, uh, I hosted one earlier yesterday and it, uh, the panelists, I don’t get too deep about who the panelists were because a lot of this is obviously.
It’s just be kept in house. But some of the approaches, uh, to the one big beautiful bill act mm-hmm. Were unique. The insights there that a lot of operators were planning for since last year.
Joel Saxum: Mm-hmm.
Allen Hall: Mm-hmm. And that they felt like this where we are today was likely to happen and they were making adjustments way back in October, November of last year.
So the repowering issues that we talk about a lot, and you hear smaller operators really struggling with bigger operators. Already had a plan of attack.
Joel Saxum: Safe harbor. Safe harbor. Safe harbor. Yeah. I’ve heard that word a lot. Right. And that was a, it was a plan from some of those, those, those big operators, uh, their senior leadership that shared some of their strategy, which I was surprised they did.
It was fantastic. But, um, if you haven’t been safe harboring, uh, or in, in contact with some good tax lawyers to understand the fall of these things and what it means to your [00:04:00] operation, do that now. Mm-hmm. Um, because you have, we have this cliff coming July 4th next year, and then at the end of the year after that.
Allen Hall: Yeah. So the, the amount of planet assets is going to, uh, go down and I think everybody in the industry has been. Talking about that. You see a lot of news reports about the number of wind turbines that will likely, uh, be repowered is gonna drop down. However, uh, a lot of operators have 10 year plans and those plans have not really changed all that much.
They, they weren’t super aggressive. They knew that during the Biden administration, this was just an extension mm-hmm. Of the Obama administration, but eventually it was going to end. Mm-hmm. That’s say they were preparing for the end anyway. And you hear that in their operational strategy.
Joel Saxum: Mm-hmm.
Allen Hall: You hear about how they’re trying to reduce their overall spend every year.
They’re trying to reduce their o and m budgets by a percent or two, even though the fleet’s getting bigger.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. An interesting conversation I had this morning was right around that was we’re, it was, this was not the same operator you and I talked to, but a different one saying that, Hey, we’re good through 28, 29.
Now [00:05:00] what happens with the next administration changes things. But then another person at the table, this was breakfast again, um, said, uh. That being said, what does the job market look like for engineers? My take on it was engineering staffs are being changed. However, if you’re an SME, that’s where, that’s where it lies.
And this person at the table was like, that’s awesome to hear, because my new boss just asked me to be the SME for blades in our company. It’s like
Matthew Stead: burn
Joel Saxum: chase it. Yes. The bonus that raised today. Yeah,
Matthew Stead: I, I, two things struck me. One was the, first of all that actually having the bill. Is clarity. I mean it’s actually good.
So I mean, that struck me as a real positive that actually there can be
Joel Saxum: getting outta the gray area.
Matthew Stead: There is some optimism there. And the other thing I heard, um, many people were talking about, not necessarily repowering, they were talking about. Whole of life, you know, o and m strategies, right? And then if Repowering happens.
So that was a bit of a, a lesson learned for me.
Allen Hall: Well, because a lot of operators that are in the United States have [00:06:00] a European branch, or they were, or European base, or they came
Matthew Stead: from
Allen Hall: there, right? So, and that’s a just completely different model than what we’ve been talking about in the United States and what has been offered in the United States.
But that stra, that European strategy has. Transferred over. And so it’s always
Matthew Stead: been,
Allen Hall: yeah. And the plans are there now. Yeah. And, and because they started several months ago, practically a year ago now. Mm-hmm. They have some sanity looking forward. Mm-hmm. They’re not panicking. And I was expecting to hear a little more cautiousness, a little more panic.
No. Mm-hmm. Not really.
Joel Saxum: It’s the same conversation that we’ve been having on the podcast for, for, since the follow out of this thing back in July of. This is going to change operational strategies, but being here we’re only what, three months removed from that?
Allen Hall: Mm-hmm.
Joel Saxum: And it seems like the strategies are already there.
Allen Hall: It was,
Joel Saxum: right. They’re already like, yeah, we’re we’re moving. Yeah. They’re big companies,
Allen Hall: right? Shore is different. Yeah. I think, I think offshore is where they got a little broadsided.
Joel Saxum: Yeah.
Allen Hall: Onshore not so much. And because [00:07:00] every operator pretty much has. Some level of solar, some level of battery. They just see, all right, if, if wind’s gonna get pummeled for a few months, we’re gonna put in a bunch of solar and we’re the plans, were already in place to do it anyway.
So we’re gonna do the solars, we’re gonna do the batteries, we’re gonna make the grid more resilient regardless of what happens to wind, which is great. I, in my opinion, some of the discussions happening in Skys specs this week, were the grid’s gonna get more resilient. We’re gonna handle the AI data power increase, and here’s how we’re gonna do it.
Joel Saxum: I heard this morning in another major operator, five to one solar farms to wind farms.
Matthew Stead: Yeah, yeah. That they’re
Joel Saxum: installing.
Matthew Stead: Yeah. More and more it’s wind, solar, battery, and in the same sentence.
Allen Hall: Yeah. And, and solar has always been falling way behind. And wind. Wind is way out in front of solar. And now solar’s finally catching up.
And it needed to be that way. This is what’s happening in Australia. You have to have a balance. You can’t have all solar, no wind. All wind and no solar, you have to have both. Plus a little bit of battery.
Matthew Stead: Definitely. In Australia, solar has [00:08:00] been above wind for a while,
Allen Hall: right? Yeah. Yeah. Right. And you’re now, you’re now it’s, it’s swinging the other way.
Right? There’s a lot of wind development going on
Matthew Stead: Yeah.
Allen Hall: In Australia and a lot of battery going on in Australia. So that balance is needed. And, uh, as we go forward, I think especially when we learn more about what happened, uh, in the Iberian Peninsula over the past spring, we’re gonna realize more solar, more wind to balance it out.
Then we’re also gonna need more battery to level it out. Yeah. Inia stability is gonna be tremendous. Way better than it was 10 years ago.
Matthew Stead: Yeah.
Allen Hall: And that’s unique. Now, one of the things that was announced today was the partnership between OGs Ping and Skys spec. So Matthew, would you like to. Talk to that.
Matthew Stead: Yeah, I mean, sky Skys specs have a great name in the industry and you know, I think the missing piece for them has been sensors, um, and lightning sensors. You know, the event Lightning sensor that we offer is perfect into their business model. So it ties in with the, you know, there’s an event, there’s an inspection, then there can be some actions you can get dealt with really [00:09:00] super quickly.
You know, maybe strike. Struck tape as well, necessary, of course. Um, but yeah, I’m super pleased this one’s been a little bit of, um, in the making. But yeah, super pleased that, um, sky Spec’s announced that this morning.
Allen Hall: Well, and Joel and I look at Sky Spec’s, drone images and internal inspections all the time.
Bring in regards to lightning. And every time I see a listing of damages on a wind farm, probably 30 to 60%. Depends on where you are. Of the damages are from Lightning. So it makes sense for Sky Specs to give everybody an alert if, if lightning is that important to the operational performance. Knowing you’ve been struck is the first thing.
Matthew Stead: Yeah.
Allen Hall: You should know.
Matthew Stead: Yeah. And was, you know, the, wasn’t the, the email from Intel store last week with, you know, lightning damage up there near the top.
Joel Saxum: Yeah.
Matthew Stead: Yeah.
Joel Saxum: Well, and, and the way Skys spec runs their operation as far as their. Very graduated on workflows and this is how this mm-hmm. This is how this plan works.
This is how this plan works. When they debuted it this morning, uh, it [00:10:00] was very clear to this is how it’s gonna work. Here’s how the workflow is lightning, bang, bang, bang. And then it was documentation. If you’re an under F, SA for your OE em, yeah. It was documentation. If you have an insurance claim and or their tech enabled insights, Hey, here’s what the damage looks like.
Do you need a repair? And then repair vendor management. Yeah. And the whole thing fits together. At the same time conversations about if there’s, if you’re in a heavy prone lightning area, now we have more and more data, accurate data to make decisions on. It’s up to, you need a strike tape or something of that sort?
Yeah,
Allen Hall: yeah, absolutely. Because the problem you see today is when they have lightning damage, they have to do an RC. A RCA takes anywhere between, say, at a minimum four weeks to. 20 weeks to get produced in that RCA process of trying to figure out when the lightning strike occurred, how big was it, all these other details.
And if you knew immediately that a lightning strike had occurred and you had done the inspection in according to Sky Specs mm-hmm. You would have all that data and you’d be, you would be able to have an RCA done in seven days.
Joel Saxum: Yeah.
Allen Hall: Which is [00:11:00] brilliant because that’s where you go back to the insurance or the FSA agreement and go.
Alright, we need to get something done.
Matthew Stead: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I was talking to an insurer and their biggest bug bear was actually the time taken to resolve the matter.
Joel Saxum: Yes.
Matthew Stead: Because they’re paying for a daily whatever. Yes.
Joel Saxum: A business interruption.
Matthew Stead: Yeah. Regularly. Nine grand a day, 12 grand a day,
Joel Saxum: which is regularly in the insurance world.
Three to one cost of property damage.
Matthew Stead: Exactly. So they’d be super keen to get this resolved quickly. No, no arguments.
Allen Hall: Get the, get the repair made. If it has to be made, get the turbine back operating. Start producing. So the business interruption. Yeah. Payments stop.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. If you’re a skys specs customer and you’re already getting inspections done regularly, so depending on your model, you might be doing ’em quarterly.
You have other headaches if that’s going on. Um, but uh, you have an big
Matthew Stead: bond.
Joel Saxum: Yeah, sorry. But you have a health record, right? So you know what the status of that turbine was. Then there’s a strike at a certain time. You go back to the last inspection, there was no damage. New inspection, there is damage. Okay, now we have a reality.
We know what the strike was. We know where the damage is. Here’s a PDF boom. That’s [00:12:00] proof.
Allen Hall: Mm-hmm. And there’s so much happening at eLog Ping at the moment. And we’re a lightning base ’cause we’re a lightning company, so we’re looking usually at the tip. But eLog Ping has been doing a lot of work at the root of the blade more recently because of the root bushing issue and some of the ways that we need to monitor that.
You usually, basically an existing device, uh, that has been primarily used for icing detection because it has, but it has this magic IME inside of it. Exactly. So it can detect. Blade motion that is now being applied for root bushing. Debos
Matthew Stead: Exactly.
Allen Hall: Which is a, a really smart move.
Matthew Stead: Yeah. I think it was probably about six months ago, one of the largest operators in the US um, was asked, what, what is one of their biggest problems?
And it was Route Debo. And so we sort of shifted our focus a bit. And since then we’ve been monitoring. Yeah, exactly. Like you say, our on blade, you know, eye sensor, um, was repurposed to measure vibration, what the blades are doing. And so we’ve got [00:13:00] some really cool stuff going on there. Um, and so we’ve also repurposed that for measuring root, deb bond, um, and actually.
Yesterday I received this, the best plot ever. A big beautiful plot. One,
Joel Saxum: one big, beautiful plot.
Matthew Stead: Um, showing the results so we can measure, um, root de bond. So yeah, we’re now looking for a bit of a wait list for customers, um, that wanna take up this service ’cause we know it’s a pain.
Joel Saxum: What does deployment look like?
Matthew Stead: Um, sensor on the front. Sensor on the back from the hub. On the outside.
Joel Saxum: Okay, so stood on the blade at the root, right?
Matthew Stead: Yeah. At the root, yeah. Okay. So you climb out, get on top of the hub, slap it on the front, the back, each blade and a comms box.
Joel Saxum: That’s it. Comms box goes in then to sell?
Matthew Stead: Yeah.
Joel Saxum: Wireless. Just power and Yeah.
Communicates itself.
Matthew Stead: Yeah.
Joel Saxum: Beautiful.
Matthew Stead: Easy. Easy. Well, that’s easy. Okay.
Joel Saxum: I said that’s at half a day a tower.
Allen Hall: Yeah. Oh, with that? Yeah. I
Matthew Stead: could do it.[00:14:00]
Allen Hall: Yeah. Well, I think that because the root bushing issue hasn’t been solved the, at the OEM level. Yeah. And because of there’s so many state harbor blades, and Joel, you pointed out like there’s just a couple years of safe harbor blades out there. That ru bushing issue has been sitting in the field for the last two years, and now we’re gonna deploy these blades because we’re in a rush to do it.
The root bushing issue, if, you know what model number is susceptible to it, you could actually install the OGs pink system on the ground.
Matthew Stead: Yeah. Uh, yeah. It would take
Allen Hall: 10 minutes to do it.
Matthew Stead: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Um, and I think probably the big thing that we’ve been sort of realizing is that the, the whole industry is cost constrained.
And so what we’ve been trying to do is look at, well, what is a business case? And so there’s no point in developing a product unless there’s. A really clear return. So we really tried to optimize the cost of our system time for installation so that the customers [00:15:00] absolutely get a return on investment.
Allen Hall: Well, and the, the cost of any installation for a product is one third of the cost of the product. Two third, the cost of installation typically. Yeah.
Matthew Stead: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Allen Hall: Exactly right. So doing it on the ground’s gonna save you two thirds of the cost typically. Yeah. And that’s where it should be done.
Joel Saxum: Well, I think that’s something that we, we, Alan, you and I.
On a podcast or off the podcast harp on all the time for everybody in wind. Yeah. It’s an industry thing, but a clear business case.
Matthew Stead: Mm.
Joel Saxum: Thank you.
Matthew Stead: Be smart.
Joel Saxum: Thank you.
Matthew Stead: Be smart. Be smart. Can I just do a little segue? Yeah. Um, this is another one of my favorite topics. Um, so we’ve sort of released a, like a technology enabled service, um, function now, which is actually using our hardware to delve into problems.
Um, and the first customer we had on that was Blade Twist. So we instrumented a long-ish blade. I can’t say how long. A hundred meters greater than a hundred meters around.
Allen Hall: Okay.
Matthew Stead: Um, [00:16:00] around, um, and we instrumented at the root, uh, 50%, 70%. Mm-hmm. And we’re able to measure the blade. The blade twisting in operation.
Allen Hall: Okay.
Matthew Stead: And the how much is twisting and how much is twisting can be compared against the design. And there’s a whole lot of standards around this topic, which, um, I think is an industry issue coming up.
Allen Hall: It’s very difficult to, to test.
Matthew Stead: Yeah. Portion. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s not even in the standard necessarily.
Not right
Allen Hall: now, no.
Matthew Stead: The
Joel Saxum: EMS are sort
Matthew Stead: of doing it. Yeah. So this is one of my favorite projects
Joel Saxum: and there’s a lot
Matthew Stead: of late twist,
Joel Saxum: there’s a lot of engineers that will say. This twists, this doesn’t field people saying it actually. Like what’s the Siemens model that does the active pitch?
Matthew Stead: Yeah. Yeah.
Joel Saxum: That they say it doesn’t actually have torsion on it, but some people say in the field it does.
Matthew Stead: Yeah.
Allen Hall: Yes.
Matthew Stead: So it’s all about the life. It’s all about the life, I mean, right. Yeah. Really, if you, you want 20, 30, whatever years you need to know, you gotta be careful.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. At the end of the day, is
Matthew Stead: it behaving?
Joel Saxum: Yeah. So that was, that’s an interesting conversation we talked about earlier. I think it was yesterday, of digital [00:17:00] twins with composites.
Because comp, the tough thing with that is a composite’s always changing.
Matthew Stead: Yeah.
Joel Saxum: Right. So there’s always a fatigue life and there’s the strength of it and the amount of twist and those, those things are gonna change throughout its life. So to, to develop a digital twin is very difficult.
Allen Hall: Yeah.
Joel Saxum: Right. So you can sense things.
Yes. And that’s what you guys are doing. Yeah.
Allen Hall: Yeah, yeah.
Joel Saxum: But developing a actual digital twin that you can, you know, a hundred percent rely on, is difficult.
Allen Hall: And I think the torsion question changes based upon where you are in the world. And northern colder climates. I think the torsion issue is a little bit different than you get closer to the equator and it’s warmer.
Matthew Stead: Yeah. The turbulence and Yeah. Yeah.
Allen Hall: And throw in turbulence.
Matthew Stead: Yeah.
Allen Hall: Right. So not, it’s not a one size fits all solution there. You need to understand what’s happening on your site. In particular in regards to torsion and a number of other things, vibrational modes
Matthew Stead: and,
Allen Hall: and root bushing’s, the same thing. I think some of the root bushing issues that I’m hearing about are where it’s a little bit hot, warmer.
Matthew Stead: [00:18:00] Mm-hmm.
Allen Hall: Right. Where we were seeing some issues there because of the temperature and maybe humidity, but So you can’t always take the data from Denmark and apply it worldwide. Yeah. You can’t apply that necessarily to Australia. You need to put some sensors on it and monitor it, even if you’re monitoring on a sampling basis.
On a tur you don’t have any experience on, at least you know
Matthew Stead: Yeah.
Allen Hall: What is likely to happen and then you can do some prediction.
Joel Saxum: Mm-hmm.
Allen Hall: Have a little bit of a model of what five years out looks like.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. You and I walked through a case one time with, uh, with a guest on the podcast about the same exact turbine model, like serial numbers that were real close to each other.
Yeah. Deployed in Sweden and deployed in Thailand.
Matthew Stead: Ah, cool.
Joel Saxum: And the ones in Thailand had way more of the same serial issue. And the ones in Sweden had like one. Wow. The ones in Thailand had like a hundred.
Matthew Stead: Interesting,
Joel Saxum: but they’re, they equated it to heat and humidity in the effecting the maintenance layup.
Matthew Stead: It’s a lot. We don’t know.
Joel Saxum: Yeah,
Allen Hall: there’s a lot We don’t know because,
Joel Saxum: because that we don’t need sensors for
Allen Hall: Exactly. We, the sensor part has been the missing link of saving operators millions of dollars a [00:19:00] year. We are literally talking about those numbers. A lot of the big savings have already happened.
Now we’re looking f when I say big savings. Operators are pretty smart about cutting $10 million out of a budget because that’s what they do for a living. You got a lot of smart people in the room trying to do that. Now we’re looking for million dollar grabs as as many places as we can. Sensors are gonna be that million dollar grab.
Mm-hmm.
Joel Saxum: Well, I think the sensor thing, and, and this is a, a macro comment about blade sensing technology, when I first got into the wind industry full time, 2019. If there was you guys were around. Yeah, right. There was blade sensing products around and IOT products for Blades around, but it was like every, even up 21, 22, 23, you had panels that sessions going like, yeah, we know there’s stuff out there.
All these operators saying, hmm eh. But it really seems in the last year, and with the one big beautiful bill here that people are actually listening. They’re seeing the technology, they’re deploying it more. Um, I mean, you guys are, you’ve got 2000 systems out in the field.
Matthew Stead: Two and a half,
Joel Saxum: two and a half thousand systems of different, all different products.
[00:20:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah. For different solutions and. You’re seeing more people say, seeing the value in it, adopting it. Mm-hmm. Looking at doing things more intelligently. That to me is very promising.
Matthew Stead: Yeah. And I think, um, also at this, um, event, we announced some of the results of the study that we did now with you guys as well around the nearly 3000, uh, lightning events.
We’ve, we’ve been measuring over the last 12 years. Uh, 12 months, sorry. In 12 years. 12 months. 12 years. Feels like lot of good data in 12 years. Like 12 years.
Joel Saxum: Yeah.
Matthew Stead: Um, and so we’ve got some really good data about, um, this ties into the risk factor, you know? Mm-hmm. Which, which turbines are being struck more, which ones need to be, you know, more attention and so.
You know, 3000 strikes. Um, so I think, you know, in the next 12 months, we’ll get 6,000 when we get more units out. So data, data, data feeding back into reducing risk.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. So data reducing risk through like showing realities.
Matthew Stead: Yeah.
Joel Saxum: Right. So, um, to anybody listening here, if you, you’re interested in what the latest we’ve seen in ground truthing lightning strike data to lightning location services to what’s [00:21:00] actually happening in the field.
Get ahold of us. Get ahold of a myself, Matthew. We’ll hop on a call, walk you through what this data looks like. It’s eye-opening.
Matthew Stead: Yeah. Upward strikes.
Joel Saxum: Upward strikes.
Allen Hall: Yeah. Upward strikes are, were really prevalent this year in the United States. Yeah. We’ve been tracking it pretty closely. And uh, Matthew, I think you threw a number out like 20%.
Matthew Stead: Yeah,
Allen Hall: definitely. Of wind turbine strikes or upward strikes.
Matthew Stead: Yeah. Or more. I mean, that’s, or more that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s for the full 12 months.
Allen Hall: Right.
Matthew Stead: So when you look at winter.
Allen Hall: Oh, it goes up by, yeah, yeah. Substantially. Yeah. Yeah. So it varies by season. All this is leading to an event that’s gonna happen in February in Melbourne, Australia.
So we’ve been working hard behind the scenes on Wind Energy O and M Australia, 2026. Last year we had about 180 people, 200 people, uh, 72. Yeah. So it, it was a big size crowd. We, we, we had to close the door at point. We
Matthew Stead: plan for 80. [00:22:00]
Allen Hall: Yeah. Yeah. We plan for half of that and to double it. And, and this year the response has been fantastic.
Everybody’s starting to register already. What is the website right now? Just so I don’t forget it.
Matthew Stead: Uh, wind. Sorry, WMA 2020 six.com.
Allen Hall: WOMA, 2020 six.com. Com. You can go and register there if you’re interested, interested in being a presenter, uh, or being on a panel. You, you can also, yeah, put in your information there.
It is gonna be for
Joel Saxum: or sponsor.
Allen Hall: Or a sponsor, right? So looking
Joel Saxum: for a
Allen Hall: couple of sponsors. We have a lot of sponsors. If you had a lot of sponsors already sign up and, and commit, especially a number from last year. Signed up again this year because it’s a transfer of knowledge. You’re bringing people together that are experts in their field to talk to other experts about how they’re running their assets.
That is what you need. If you’re an operator, you want to put your engineers in that room and you’re in asset managers in that room to get to the best configuration. The best setup for Turbine [00:23:00] in Australia, turbines in America. Turbines in Brazil.
Intro: Mm-hmm.
Allen Hall: That’s where everybody’s gonna be coming together in Melbourne in February.
Is a lot better weather than anything in the United States for sure. Unless you’re in Miami, maybe. But Melbourne is a beautiful city. It’s easy to get around in. It’s an easy airport in and out of flights all the time. It is a simple place to get to, even though it is a long distance from the United States.
It’s easy. Yeah, that’s one of the things I enjoyed the most was pleasant weather. Great restaurants, a lot of. Really, really good presentations and panels. Mm-hmm. And I walked out with a lot more knowledge than when I walked out.
Matthew Stead: Mm-hmm. Uh, I think Joel’s, uh, line was by engineers for engineers.
Allen Hall: Mm.
Matthew Stead: Yeah. So I think that helped a lot.
And I think the other thing that this is very clearly a not-for-profit event and it, so it is really about the knowledge and knowledge sharing rather than Yeah. Salesy stuff.
Joel Saxum: Yeah. It, at that event, it’s much like the conversations we were talking about at [00:24:00] the beginning of this, this, uh, little episode that’s happening here right now.
Where we are is it’s engineers talking to engineers, people that don’t know each other. Oh, you work for this operator? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let’s exchange information because you can help me.
Allen Hall: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Joel Saxum: That, that, at that conference last year, it was basically all of the major operators that probably 90 to 95% of the install capacity of wind were represented there.
Plus the, the limited amount of ISPs that started to grow that market started to change a little bit. Mm-hmm. We took some feedback from the event last year and adjusted it this year to be a little bit, we’re gonna do some round tables that are based on case studies, real things that happened, real value, this is how much money was saved, this is how much time was saved, this is how the solution was implemented.
Uh, again, like we said, going in there and walking away with something that’s tangible. Yeah. That you can bring back to your operation and say, Hey, I learned this. We should try this.
Allen Hall: Yeah, that’s gonna be the, the great thing about it. And we’re only a couple months away, so if you’re interested in going to Wind Energy o and m [00:25:00] Australia 2026, you need to get to the website WMA, and register WMA 2020 six.com.
Matthew, it’s so great to connect. We, we rarely are in the same place at the same time. We’re always in different continents.
Joel Saxum: That’s because this guy travels too much.
Allen Hall: Yeah. And Matthew’s actually heading to Japan here. Tomorrow.
Joel Saxum: Yes.
Allen Hall: Uh, to do some installations in Japan, because eLog is exploded worldwide.
There’s, there’s so many deployments going on simultaneously. It’s, it’s really hard to keep up with. Every time I talk to you, I’m going to a different place. You’re putting more sensors on, like, wow, that’s pretty good.
Matthew Stead: Yeah.
Allen Hall: It’s about time. Right. Good to go
Matthew Stead: on side.
Allen Hall: The industry is moving towards more knowledge.
Yeah. And that’s great. So Matthew, thank you so much for, for being here. If anybody needs to get a hold of you, Matthew, how do they do that?
Matthew Stead: Uh, through my LinkedIn profile. Might be the easiest. Um, Matthew said. Yeah. OGs Ping. Go for it. Alright, great. Thank you, Matthew. Thanks, Alan. Thanks Joel. Good to be [00:26:00] here.
https://weatherguardwind.com/eologix-ping-skyspecs/
Renewable Energy
Pardalote Studies Australian Blade Erosion and Heat Fatigue
Pardalote Studies Australian Blade Erosion and Heat Fatigue
Rosemary Barnes, CEO and founder of Pardalote Consulting, joins to discuss their new grant-funded study of blade erosion and heat fatigue in Australia.
Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!
Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining light on wind energy’s brightest innovators. This is the progress powering tomorrow
Allen Hall 2025: Well, Rosemary, welcome back to the show.
Rosemary Barnes: Thanks, Allen. Great to be here. For, it’s been a while since we did one of these one-on-one episodes, like a, yeah, a proper, proper guest.
Allen Hall 2025: Well, this is kind of a celebratory episode because your company, Pardalote Consulting, has been awarded, uh, some funding from the Australian Capital Territory’s government for the Energy Innovation Fund.
Rosemary Barnes: It’s a really good program that the ACT government has to try and get energy innovation In the state. It’s not a state actually, it’s technically a territory. Little more than just Canberra, the city. Uh, but there are actually quite a few, like, really interesting energy-related companies here, partly ’cause of the, the fund I think helps, but also just tracing back like, [00:01:00] uh, y- you know, in the 20-teens, Australia had a really conservative government that hated renewable energy, and the ACT government had a commitment at that time to 100%, um, 100% renewable electricity for the, the government.
And that was one of the only programs that was resulting in a lot of, um, you know, clean energy projects being built, and one of the conditions that they put on that, uh, for people that would win PPAs with the ACT was that you had to have your headquarters in Canberra. So we’ve actually got quite a few, quite a few really cool, innovative companies out of here.
Um, like Neoen’s headquarters here. Windlab, uh, yeah, was, was founded here and still has a lot of people here. Pardalote obviously, and you know, a few other companies as well. So despite it being a small city of like, I don’t know, maybe it’s up to 400,000 or something people by now, um, yeah, there is actually quite a lot going on here for energy.
Allen Hall 2025: And the Energy Innovation Fund is funded by the wind and solar operators in the area, and your particular [00:02:00] effort has really global consequences. You’re focusing on two areas involving how wind turbines survive Australia, but more, uh, of relevance is to just really tough conditions which exist not just in Australia but around the world.
What two areas are you going to focus on?
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. So the two focus areas are leading edge erosion and high temperature fatigue, which we can probably get into the definitions of those in a minute. But basically my, um– what led me to wanna have a project like this was that when I moved back to Australia in 2021, I– and I started working in O&M, uh, I noticed that the wind turbines that I would look at, the blades that I would look at here behaved really differently to the ones that I worked with overseas.
You know, es- especially with leading edge erosion, like often I would be doing a condition assessment of a, you know, a new wind farm. Um, might only have been operating for, you know, two years. That’s a pretty common time for people to get in and do a condition assessment [00:03:00] because their warranty period is about to end and they wanna, you know, make sure that everything is okay.
Um, and I would just notice that often, like 90, 100% of blades would already have bad erosion after just a couple of years, which is super-duper fast. And then there are some tools available to check, um, like what kind of erosion are you likely to experience on your site. Like is it a higher severity erosion site or a, a low severity one?
Um, and you basically, you know, the status quo globally is to just look at the annual rainfall, um, and the tip speed. And if you’ve got, you know, high for both of those, that’s a bad erosion site. And if you’ve got low for both of those, it’s a, a low erosion site. But when I plotted out the wind farms that I knew had really bad erosion problems onto, you know, a chart with those two axes, I just saw a random distribution of dots.
You know? Like, this was not– uh, this had no predictive value for Australian wind farms. And so that led me to believe that, okay, um, you know, things are a bit [00:04:00] different here. Makes sense, you know, most of the knowledge that we have about how wind turbines operate, it’s been developed and validated mostly in Northern Europe.
You know? Like it’s, it’s Denmark and the surrounding countries that had, like, the bulk of the early wind energy. First few decades of knowledge were, you know, were mostly there. Of course, there were some other, um, places that had wind turbines, but, you know, most of the The OEMs have been operating for decades, came from Denmark.
And I know when I lived in Denmark, the rain there is very different to the rain in Australia. So in Denmark, it’s basically always raining, right? Like, it’s just… Like, even if it’s not raining, you’re still gonna get wet when you go outside ’cause it’s just, like, the air has this just amazing ability to just hold onto moisture.
Um, but it’s very, very gentle. But, you know, over an entire year of most days having gentle rain, that adds up to a lot. Whereas in Australia, and especially if you go, like, north to Queensland, it rarely rains. It’s mostly just dry, and when it [00:05:00] does rain, it’s like a tap turns on, and I, I swear you will get bruised from the rain droplets hitting your skin.
You know, they just have so much energy in them. So I think that that i- you know, when you look at just the overall rainfall, you really hide something important about how erosion, um, can progress. Then, um, there’s other places in Australia that have very different characteristics. Again, they don’t have that kind of really intense rain but, you know, some of those sites are also having really bad erosion.
And so it just occurred to me, I did a lot of research, you know, into what’s going on and, you know, the academics are studying erosion a whole lot, and they’ve got, you know, a lot of standardized tests and, you know, products are developed according to these standardized tests. But the standardized tests don’t actually resemble reality, and especially they don’t resemble reality in Australia.
And so my client started asking me, “Okay, you know, the products that we have are, are terrible. We have to replace them every couple of years. It’s, um, causing big problems with also [00:06:00] the amount of energy that you’re losing.” One of the types of, um, leading-edge erosion or leading-edge problems that we have in Australia is that the, the coatings tend to peel off and make these, like, big flakes which will just massively disrupt the airflow, can cause y- you know, at least a few percent AEP loss, and maybe up to five.
And even worse than the AEP loss is the revenue loss because it affects it most at, you know, lower wind speeds. Um, you get a bigger hit than at rated wind speeds. So there’s a variety of problems going on with leading edges in Australia, which mean that I, I basically… My clients would ask, “What product should we put on to prevent having to, you know, constantly replace this?”
‘Cause it costs, like- you know, 30, $40,000 per turbine to replace the protection, not to mention, you know, one or two days of downtime. It’s expensive, and I basically, I didn’t have a good answer for them. What, what product should they put on? I don’t know. No, we, we don’t know. One, we don’t know what the [00:07:00] specific, um, characteristics are that are…
what the specific local environment, local conditions are that are accelerating leading-edge erosion, one. And two, all of the products tend to be tested around this, you know, there’s this protocol that academics have come up with, and they’ve kind of like assumed that this is representative of how things behave in the field, and it’s– I don’t think it’s particularly true anyway, but it’s especially not true in Australia.
There are a few companies that are testing to different standards. Um, definitely applaud them. But without knowing wha- what are the conditions truly like in Australia, uh, it’s really hard to advise, like, what kind of tests should you be demanding from a product you’re considering to be sure that you’re gonna put it on and not gonna be replacing it again in two years.
Allen Hall 2025: Because that’s really the trouble in Australia is when you get offered products They have been tested generally in somewhere in Europe and maybe in the United States, and then when they go to [00:08:00] Australia, it’s really unknown as to how those products will do, which is a huge risk for the Australian wind market as to what to choose, how to choose, is it– what’s real in terms of test data.
So now you’re gonna go out and do what? Are you gonna put sensors out by the wind farms? Are you gonna try to do more of a statistical summary of the actual environment around wind farms using existing data? What’s the approach here?
Rosemary Barnes: It’s all of the above, but the part that is supported by the grant is that we’re gonna have enough money to be able to buy some scientific-grade sensors and put them on, um, a sample of Australian wind farms.
So we’re gonna be looking at a lot more characteristics about the rain than simply is it raining now, you know, how many millimeters per hour. We’re also gonna be investigating, you know, every kind of characteristic of, of that, um, of that rain, um, including, yeah, like the, the energy that’s in it, for example.
A, a bunch of stuff. I won’t get into every single [00:09:00] parameter. Um, and you know, other things as well, like measuring UV, solar radiation, um, particles, because, you know, in Australia we have a lot of dirt roads, which I know is very common in wind farms around the world, but Australian dirt roa- roads are always dry and dusty, like 99% of the time, so that’s one of the things that y- you know, maybe that’s causing a difference.
Um, so basically putting sensors all over a bunch of wind turbines and then monitoring the erosion, um, a combination of some real-time monitoring and also looking at inspection, um, drone inspection images annually. We also have a- an option where we’ll just be using SCADA data and inspection images, so that’s like a lower cost version where we can combine that with the findings from the scientific-grade instrumented turbines to build up a picture of what types of conditions lead to accelerated erosion.[00:10:00]
Allen Hall 2025: So the SCADA data will, will have some information inside of it, you think, that, uh, will correlate to the weather outside?
Rosemary Barnes: It has some Additionally, we can look up, um, you know, just the weather data, like how many millimeters fell during which 15-minute interval throughout the day, what was the temperature.
SCADA will tell us also what the temperature was, um, what the speed of the turbine was, so you can calculate the tip speed, ’cause that’s an important thing. Um, yeah, so it’s, it’s two, it’s two tiers of data collection. The scientific grade sensors, as you can imagine, are, are really expensive and y- you know, the, the grant project has contributed a, a lot of funding, um, but it’s not enough to put those, yeah, put a little mini lab on top of every turbine across Australia, obviously.
So that we’re using s- doing selectively, and then we can increase the number of wind farms that are included in the study by just doing this, um, cheaper version of the SCADA [00:11:00] plus, uh, weather data that’s available.
Allen Hall 2025: So what are some of the risks on the temperature side for all the high-temperature regions of Australia that have wind turbines?
Clearly it’s generally warmer in Australia than it is in, in Scandinavia and Northern Europe. What kind of temperatures are we talking about on the ground?
Rosemary Barnes: Uh, well, temperatures here can get pretty close to 50 degrees. Um, and if you’ve ever been inside a wind turbine blade on a, even a mildly hot day, you’ll know that the temperature inside a wind turbine, and especially inside the blade, is much hotter than what it is, uh, what the ambient temperature is.
So this project is one– I’ve actually been talking about this project for, yeah, like over 10 years now. Ever since I started, I moved to Denmark, started working for a wind turbine manufacturer, I had done– I had just finished doing my PhD on composite materials, structural design, and analysis. So, um, yeah, very, very familiar with, [00:12:00] you know, how composite materials work and, in particular, the effect that temperature has on them.
I mean, like most materials, when composites get warmer, they get softer, and that is really important for a w- a wind turbine blade. You know, if it gets, um, less stiff, then you’re gonna get a lot more strain, and that is going to affect your fatigue behavior. Y- you know, fatigue is just the application of a little bit of, a small amount of strain.
It’s not gonna cause damage, but when you apply it millions, tens of millions of times, like you do in a, o- over a wind turbine’s operate, um, operating lifetime, then that builds up. And, you know, wind turbine blades are a very fatigue-driven design. Um, it’s one of the most important things to consider when you’re designing a wind turbine blade.
And so when I got to Denmark and I learned how materials are qualified and how the qualification is treated in the certification process, I just realized it’s not particularly conservative, and also that some of the assumptions that are made that [00:13:00] wo- again, they worked really well in more moderate climates where wind turbines have had most of their developmental history.
You know, it’s not such a big deal there if you test at room temperature. Your wind turbine blade is spending most of its operating lifetime at room temperature or below. It’s, it’s rarely, you know, above 30 degrees in Denmark and most of Northern Europe and, you know, also a lot of, um, a lot of America, not, not all of it But, um, in Australia it has just extended periods above that temperature and even exceeding the temperature where, you know, wind turbines have an operating limit and after that they will shut down.
But the operating limits are based on ambient temperature. It’s not based on what’s the temperature in the laminate, which is what really matters for blade lifetime. So anyway, I’ve been obsessed, like honestly obsessed about this issue for 10 years. Talked about it with anybody who would listen . But then when I started working in O&M in [00:14:00] Australia and I started seeing some wind farms with an abnormal number of cracks early…
again, early in their lifetime, you know, I think one of the wind farms I was looking at was maybe three years old or four at the time. I think it was three actually, and had a lot of cracks, and I looked at a few years in a row and it was more and more cracks every year and I’m like, “Oof, this really looks like end of life fatigue behavior.”
A- actually it’s not, y- you know, there’s this concept of a bathtub curve where, um, when you’re looking at failures in components, in, in anything, not just in, um, wind turbine blades, but you know, like you’d start– it’s called a bathtub because, you know, when it starts operating, you’ll get quite a lot of failures.
Anything big, any manufacturing defects or anything are gonna cause failures quite fast, and that kind of drops off over time as all of those, uh, get addressed. And then you have, you know, the bulk of your operating life, it’s like pretty low level, pretty, pretty constant for a long time and then as you get towards the end of the [00:15:00] life, you start to see failure rates rise up again.
That’s your fatigue failures, your end of life fatigue failures. And so when I saw the same types of cracks more and more each year, I’m like, “This looks like, you know, the foot end of the bathtub, not the head end.” And, uh, it made me worried and I’ve now seen that across a few wind farms in Australia at, um, hotter places.
There’s a few blade types that are more prone to it than others, but at this point it’s still a suspicion that that’s what’s going on. I mean, a suspicion backed by a lot of, a lot of theory and knowledge of how the certification process works. But this project now we’ve got some funding to actually go put some sensors onto wind turbines, actually learn what the temperatures are in the blades throughout the whole laminate, um, not just the, you know, on the outside surface or not just the ambient temperature, but actually, you know, develop a temperature gradient across the whole, um, the whole laminate in the blade shell.
Um, and [00:16:00] then we’re going to be doing a bunch of modeling basically to look at what is the effect of these different temperatures that blades are really seeing and how much would we expect to… that to decrease a lifetime. And then we should also be able to say, you know, if you have this issue in your wind farm, you might be able to change your operation a little bit and extend your lifetime a lot.
Because this one, it’s real– like, in contrast to leading edge erosion, leading edge erosion is just, it’s, you know, every wind turbine has it to a certain extent, and it, it’s always there, but it’s a relatively minor cost to fix it. You know, like it sounds like a lot, like 30, $40,000 per wind turbine, but, um, you know, compared to if you’ve got to replace every blade across your fleet because they’re all, you know, at the end of their life after five years, you know, that’s obviously shocking.
And, you know, that’s a bad example, but even in a y- you know, like a less extreme example, maybe [00:17:00] after 15 years you have to do a, you know, a f- a fleet-wide campaign to strengthen blades or something. It’s, you know, m- many millions of dollars for that, and so it c- could make sense to be able to learn, okay, what, what hours of operation should we be avoiding?
Additionally, because when it’s super-duper hot in Australia, usually you’ve got heaps of solar power and the electricity price is not that high. So I, I think that there– and I don’t, obviously, before we’ve done the project, I don’t know what the threshold is. But in both cases, we will be aiming to improve the knowledge of how you can operate to avoid these periods of accelerated damage.
Allen Hall 2025: Do you think you’re seeing more fatigue-like damage due to the blades operating when it’s hot or not operating when it’s hot, with maybe less airflow around the blade and maybe less cooling going on is just a temperature soak At rest? [00:18:00]
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. It’s interesting because the temperature is higher if it’s not rotating, um, because you get a whole lot of, um, convective heat, heat transfer when the turbine is operating.
So your temperatures are not gonna get as hot when operating as when they’re standing still. However, if it’s standing still, they’re only very lightly loaded. Like, yes, they’re gonna get, um, blown by, by gusts and, um, have a little bit of bending, but it’s, it’s very, very small compared to, uh, if it is y- you know, operational loads.
Uh, assuming that you’re not in the middle of a s- a storm. But yeah, a storm probably doesn’t come with 50 degrees temperatures.
Allen Hall 2025: And what part of the blade is susceptible to these higher temperatures? Is it the resin? Is it the fiberglass or carbon fiber? Or is it the, the glue, the bond joints? What part are you focused on?
Rosemary Barnes: The resin is the main part that I’m focused on. It gl- it could be an issue for glue too, actually. I haven’t even looked into what the, um, yeah, temperature assumptions are with, with glue, with [00:19:00] bond lines. But the failures that I’m seeing in the field are not, are not bond line issues. It’s, it’s, um, a laminate problem.
Allen Hall 2025: What about balsa and foam inside of the blade? Are they affected by the temperatures or are they pretty temperature stable?
Rosemary Barnes: I don’t think they’re affected at these kinds of temperatures, no. They, they don’t really do much actually. The, the core materials, like it, it is very important that they’re, that they’re there, but their job is really to keep the fiberglass separated from its- itself to make it stiffer.
So, um, yeah, that’s, that’s unlikely to be a, a major source of problems.
Allen Hall 2025: So this study is gonna work over about three years, and you have a number of wind farms that are participating. Are you looking for more wind farms to participate in Australia?
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, we can, um, have as many as, as people want to join.
We’ve got quite a good selection so far. Definitely can always welcome more. A, a bit limited in how many can get the really, um, good sensor [00:20:00]package, because the grant funding is a, you know, a certain amount, and that’s paying the bulk of those sensors. So, um, those spots are limited. So if anybody wants to really zone in on what is specifically causing erosion on their site, you know, if you know that you have got leading edge protection that is not good enough and you have to replace it soon, but you don’t know what to replace it with, then, you know, that would be the kind of wind farm that might want to consider, yeah, joining this and, um, you know, getting these sensors on their, um…
We’re putting them on top of the nacelles, most of them. Um, yeah, so that would be a good match then. Um, and then, yeah, for the ones that are doing the SCADA data and, um, weather data- There’s not such a, a hard limit on how many we can have join like that. So yeah, we can have more, more like that.
Allen Hall 2025: In the temperature fatigue effort, i- is that still looking for participants or are there particular wind turbine types or manufacturers that you’re [00:21:00] looking for to participate?
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, I think, um, I, I mean yes, we can have more of those. That’s a simpler, a, a simpler issue as well. The sensors are not so expensive and, um, it’s, yeah, it’s a, it’s a simpler project to join that one. We only need, you know, a couple of turbines per site, so it won’t be such a, uh, an involved process to get everything up on into the turbines.
And in terms of who might like to join that, I would say anybody that is in a really hot area where, you know, where they see a lot of days over 30 degrees, and if they see any days, you know, getting into the high 40s, then I would say that that’s worthwhile. Or even I have seen this issue in some milder sites, um, yeah, depending on the, on the blade type as well.
It is more common with polyester resins. They have a, a lower op- uh, maximum operating temperature than epoxy resins. But then also just anybody that has noticed just, hey, [00:22:00] we’ve got a lot of cracks, and it seems like we’re getting more and more cracks every year, which to be honest, can be hard to keep track of if you’re…
If you’ve got a full service agreement, uh, you know, an OEM managing your wind farm The early signs of this are gonna be category one and category two cracks. They’re not in exactly the same location. It’s, you know, it’s a tricky one. Normally, if you’re looking at a serial issue, then you’re going to have, uh, well, you know, your ideal pattern for a serial issue is the exact same thing happening over and over again.
And so it is harder to pull this out. It also really would be very rare for it to be happening in the first two years or three years, whatever your serial defect liability period is. So it’s quite hard. But, um, another group of wind farms that might like to consider it is if you know that in, you know, a certain number of years you have to renegotiate your service agreement or, you know, it ends and you might have to take over yourself, then this’ll be a really good way for you to [00:23:00] understand, you know, have I got a ticking time bomb here?
Um, because it’s not something that you’re gonna be aware of if you haven’t been, you know, doing some really, really in-depth shadow, shadow monitoring of your blades, you know, running your own inspections and looking at every single damage, not just category three, four, five, but lower ones. So yeah, I mean, there’s a, a wide variety of people that, that could be interested in joining.
Allen Hall 2025: Are you expecting a number of manufacturers that make leading-edge protection or involved in resin creation, some– there’s a number of resin companies and a variety of resins that are used globally, sort of interchangeably at times. Are you expecting some of those companies to participate in this effort just to learn about the Australian environment?
Rosemary Barnes: I think it would be a good opportunity to test out some products and see how they behave in the Australian context. I think that that would be a really good selling point, but I, I have to say that most of the companies doing that sort of thing that wanna enter Australia, they don’t [00:24:00] really consider…
Like, from the perspective of wind farm owners in Australia, if you can’t show us wind farms in Australia where this has worked and, you know, show us a before or after, you know, the old LEP lasted Two years and our LEP is going on four years now with no damage. It, you know, unless you’ve got a before and after like that, you can tell us however many turbines that you’ve got installed around the world, but, um, we don’t consider it validated, y- you know?
It’s not validated for Australian conditions yet. And I do have this same discussion over and over again with, you know, not just leading edge protection, but all kinds of, um, you know, manufacturers of whatever doodads that you put on to improve a, a wind turbine. It’s so different to Australia. Things break so fast.
And I’m talking everything, you know, like vortex generators fall off and, um, yeah, like, uh, you know, bits of lightning protection systems fall off, seals just [00:25:00] crumble and disintegrate. Um, and it, you know, we’re very wary of, of new products. So I, I do– I mean, I’m thinking of it more from my client’s point of view than from the product manufacturer’s point of view.
But one thing that I wanna get out of this pro- project is to be able to answer one of the most common questions that I get is, which is, what leading edge protection should I be putting on my turbine? And for now, I don’t know. I, I know a range of products that don’t work in Australia, and not much more than that.
So, um, yeah. And it’s also, you know, Australia’s a very varied place with lots of different kinds of climate too. So it’s not gonna be like, you know, the product that works in Queensland is the same one that’s gonna work in Tasmania, which is the same one that’s gonna work in Western Australia. You know, um, so it, this project is gonna really pull out what are the site specific issues you’ve got at your site and what kinds of, um, you know, tests would we need to see a product um, perform in order to know that this [00:26:00] is gonna last on your site.
Allen Hall 2025: W- what is the outcome of this project or these two projects? Are they gonna be reports or, uh, a, a continual monitoring system that’s designed for the Australian environment? How do you see this going?
Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, so one part of it is, um, developing a way to identify periods of accelerated damage and to know not to operate during that time.
So we call it protective operation. Uh, so that would, uh, help you if, yeah, you’re trying to extend the life of something or increase the amount of time before you have to repair, then y- you know, that would be useful to have that knowledge. And it will be as simple as just an alert saying, “Hey, accelerated damage conditions.
Consider, you know, if you wanna keep on operating.” And, you know, if the price of electricity is super high at that time, they may want to push through, and if it’s low, they probably won’t want to. So that’s one thing. Um, especially, you know, as wind turbines get to their, near the end of their life. I’ve got some clients whose wind farms only have, you know, [00:27:00] maybe five years operation left.
They just simply don’t wanna repair their leading edge protection again. They just, they, they don’t wanna do that. So they would be happy to, you know, reduce operation a bit and have their turbine limp through to the end of the period. Y- you know, you want everything to wear out at once. You don’t want brand-new leading edge protection on a turbine that’s going to come down in a couple of years.
Um, so, you know, that’s, that’s one part of it. And then the other thing is, you know, turbines earlier in their lifetime, how can we optimize the maintenance schedule with leading edge erosion? Um, so, you know, like it’s a lot cheaper to, uh, replace the LEP if you get– catch it early, but then you don’t wanna be catching it too early and replacing it, you know, constantly when you, you don’t need to.
So, um, yeah, it, this, having this knowledge will enable a site-by-site operations and maintenance strategy with respect to leading edge protection. We also have some sites who are having trouble. They’ve got a full service agreement, and the OEM is [00:28:00] responsible for, um, doing the leading edge erosion repairs and protection replacement, but the owner is on the hook for paying for it.
At the other end, we’ve got people with full service agreements where technically the, um, manufacturer is supposed to be doing the leading edge protection and paying for it, but they argue about what, when does it need to be done. Because, you know, um, the operator might think if there’s no structural risk, then we don’t need to be replacing it.
And in the meantime, you’ve got turbines spinning around for years and years and years with, you know, these huge flakes of leading edge protection s- you know, causing the flow at the tip of the turbine to, to detach and to stall, and horrible aerodynamics, huge losses in power generation and revenue. And they’re having a big fight about, you know, is this necessary to do or not?
And then, you know, they’re just gonna put the exact same product on again ’cause the [00:29:00] OEMs are re- all really, really wedded to their own particular brand. It’s like, “Well, last time we had this product and it was factory applied, it lasted one year before it s- it was worse than, you know, if it wasn’t there at all.
Uh, we don’t really want you to put that one on again.” And so, you know, having the information that they need to be able to, you know, really bring data to these discussions and, you know, makes a, yeah, data not drama. That’s a, a good approach I think, um, for any kind of negotiation and especially in the case of leading edge erosion.
And then for the high temperature fatigue part of the problem, aside from, you know, just wanting to know are your blades aging, should you be looking at remediation action or changing the operation, the other really big key thing is, uh, you might need to have a fight with y- your OEM about if this turbine has been designed and operated correctly.
And so then having the data from this, um, project is going to give you the information that you need to come into that [00:30:00] argument with, again, the data not the drama. Um, and to, you know, in- increase your chances of succeeding in that kind of really tricky negotiation.
Allen Hall 2025: So if you’re an OEM or a manufacturer of equipment, an ISP, an operator, pretty much all aspects of wind operations, you probably ought to be getting a hold of Pardalote Consulting and Rosemary to talk about the opportunity to participate in this study.
How do people get ahold of you to, to do that?
Rosemary Barnes: People can go to our website, pardaloteconsulting.com, and get in touch via the contact form there, or you can, uh, look me up on LinkedIn, Rosemary Barnes. That’s probably the easiest, fastest way to get ahold of me personally.
Allen Hall 2025: Well, Rosemary, congratulations on the Energy Innovation Fund Awards and the new three-year effort.
If you are interested in participating with Pardalote Consulting and working with Rosemary and her team [00:31:00] in Australia, reach out to her on LinkedIn and get that process started, because this report and the data from all this analysis that’ll happen over the next couple of years will be important to the wind industry.
So you need to spend some time and get ahold of Rosemary and get this process started now. So Rosemary, congratulations. Uh, thanks for being back on the podcast, and looking forward to, uh, the next couple of years. It sh- should be exciting.
Rosemary Barnes: Thanks so much, Allen.
Renewable Energy
Artificial Stupidity?
We all understand that there are ultra-conservatives living all around us, but does anyone truly believe that our schoolteachers are ruining our society by teaching children the truth about U.S. and world history? Science? Current events?
Slavery and Jim Crow laws were bad. Fascism is bad. Our scientists are telling us that CO2 emissions are causing world temperatures to rise, destroying our planet’s capacity to support life.
Whom do these concepts upset?
Renewable Energy
No Such Thing as a “Dumb Question”
There is nothing dumb about the question posed at left. Democracies fail, falling into “banana republics” constantly. The rate at which democracies become tyrannies is so great that some of them never make the news. Can you tell me anything about the governments of Eritrea or Chad?
What makes the situation in the United States is, yes, that it’s happening here in the United States, the very last place anyone would have suspected it.
You might have thought that Americans wouldn’t have voted for their nation to become Russia or North Korea.
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